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#1
Hi there!

I decided to change my Orange Crush Pix 20L for a small tube amp. I play for 8 year now.
I only play at home, and I like tones like Steve Vai, Iron Maiden, Metallica, etc. But also some alternative rock like Black Keys, Strokes, etc.
I dont usually use clean channel.

I have a Ibanez RG370DX, but i'll buy a Ravelle from Fernandes (not sure which pickup yet... SD? Sustainer? EMG?). I'm also planning on putting some DiMarzio on my Ibanez to get closer to the Steve Vai sound.

So, two questions:
- Changing my amp is recommended, right?
- I researched around and I found two main options (for now):
Blackstar HT-5R or Orange Tiny Terror.

I heard pretty bad and pretty good things about both of them. From youtube videos I couldn't decide which to buy, but I tend to like Blackstar more. I don't really get that "channel loop" thing.

Well, I would like to get some advices.
I'll move to a city near NYC and I rather get a new amp (not used). Its possible that I wont have the opportunity to try the amp at the store. I was thinking on spending something around 500-700US$.

Anyway, thanks in advance.
#2
The tiny terror is the only tube amp between the two so it wins by default. I would seriously look at the used market especially if your moving to nyc there is decent used market here. Also tube amps are loud as shit so if your just going to play at home a used line 6 hd 500 and a powered wedge might serve you better.
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#3
Quote by losing battle
The tiny terror is the only tube amp between the two so it wins by default. I would seriously look at the used market especially if your moving to nyc there is decent used market here. Also tube amps are loud as shit so if your just going to play at home a used line 6 hd 500 and a powered wedge might serve you better.


Two words. Volume Knob.

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#4
I would recommend the Orange out of the two. But, look into the marshall DSL40C just above your budget but has a 20W switch for lower volume use and is loud enough to play with a band. Will give you a close sound to Iron Maiden and early Metallica stuff if driven with a tubescreamer. There is a single channel 15W alternative but it has 6V6 tubes not EL34. Also, the amp is really versatile with decent cleans and a number of other features including an effects loop.

I would really recommend high power tubes for high gain sounds such as 6L6 or EL34 rather then 6V6 or EL84 as the high power tubes produce a great bass tone that I think is part of a great high gain tone. The smaller tube are more of a creamy smooth midrange overdrive sound.
#5
I like my Blackstar HT club 40. Its in your price range. Also look at the Egnator series, their pretty good too. I dont care for Marshall these days except their clean channels. The affordable Orange is really low watt with minimal functionality as fas as tone. Also I really like what Peavey has, the classic 30 or even the valve king, Really rockin tones
#6
Thanks for the answers!

I forgot to tell ya that I have a V-Amp 3. It can emulate some cabinets and overdrives, with a very decent tone. Therefore I don't initially intend to use the amp's distortion... What do you say about this?
-Isnt the Blackstar HT-5 combo a tube amp? they say it is..!
-Can't I just lower the volume...?
-I want something not thaaat big, so that I can move it. I'll leave near new york for only an year. I must bring it back on plane!
-I was afraid to buy an used amp since the valves are said to have a "small life span".
-I was considering buying a Ibanez tubescream too.
#7
Quote by Gab_Azz


I would really recommend high power tubes for high gain sounds such as 6L6 or EL34 rather then 6V6 or EL84 as the high power tubes produce a great bass tone that I think is part of a great high gain tone. The smaller tube are more of a creamy smooth midrange overdrive sound.


The "high power tubes" will never get a chance to develop "great bass tone" in his environment. There's also this: an 18W EL84 amp (just two EL84s) can develop pretty decent bass tone if you're pushing the right speaker in the right cabinet. I have an Atomic Reactor 112-18 that's essentially a powered speaker. It's got a single Eminence 12" 200W speaker inside a closed-back cabinet that's larger than my entire 2x12 Carvin Belair combo amp. Also inside the cabinet (but not inside the speaker enclosure part) is an 18W tube power amp, so the whole unit is essentially a powered speaker. At most small-room volumes it has better bass than a 4x12.

But better than tube amps at all is a pair of KRK Rokit 8's, designed to be recording monitors. These things have just an 8" woofer, a 1" tweeter, and power it with a 100W (divided/biamped at 80WLF, 20WHF) each speaker. Run any preamp (tube or SS) or modeler into these things and you will have better (and lower) "great bass tone" than any tube amp run at low volumes. High gain guitar through these things sounds at least as good as it does on any recording.

Think outside the box (the "box" being the big box guitar store in this case)!
Last edited by dspellman at Jul 1, 2015,
#8
Quote by pieri175
Thanks for the answers!

I forgot to tell ya that I have a V-Amp 3. It can emulate some cabinets and overdrives, with a very decent tone. Therefore I don't initially intend to use the amp's distortion... What do you say about this?
-Isnt the Blackstar HT-5 combo a tube amp? they say it is..!
-Can't I just lower the volume...?
-I want something not thaaat big, so that I can move it. I'll leave near new york for only an year. I must bring it back on plane!
-I was afraid to buy an used amp since the valves are said to have a "small life span".
-I was considering buying a Ibanez tubescream too.


V-Amp isn't a very stellar example of a modeler.

It's a hybrid, partial tube, partial solid state.

Yes

Valid Concern

False

Good, but there are plenty of tubescreamer pedals that don't say Ibanez on them that do the same job (often better) for half the money or less.
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#9
Isn't the TT switch able to 7.5w? That would be a pretty significant way to reduce the volume and get better tube saturation.
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#10
Quote by nick.culliton
Isn't the TT switch able to 7.5w? That would be a pretty significant way to reduce the volume and get better tube saturation.


No, it wouldn't. It's a gimmick. The difference between 15w and 7.5w is marginal. (3dB)
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#11
^ +1

if you're playing at home 5 watter or so are still really, really loud. marginally quieter than 15, but not a whole heap.

crap analogy- bit like buying a porsche which will do 180mph instead of a ferrari which will do 200mph because the speed limit is 70.
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#12
How about a good ole ValveKing 112 with a tubescreamer pedal? I'd imagine that would cover almost everything you're going for with the exception of the heavier end. I got passable kinda Slayer with a boost out of one. Dummy plug and cable in the loop.

The clean channel would be a great platform for pedals too.

Used price is between $130 and $260. I used a Joyo Vintage Overdrive for $30.
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#13
Isn't the V-amp going to emulate decently the sound I want, ""despite"" of the amp?

About the amp...
Now I have a lot of new options!
How should I start?
Orange? Blackstar? Peavey? Marshall?
Lets summarize.

- Tiny terror is too big/powerful
- HT-5R is not really tube amp... but isnt it good enough? Or what you are trying to say is that with that money I could get something better?
- Peavey... valveking? which one?
- Marshall, isnt it too deep-purple-tone? My iron maiden reference that i'm seeking is the early 00's, like Dance of Death album. Or steve vai...!
#14
Quote by dspellman
The "high power tubes" will never get a chance to develop "great bass tone" in his environment. There's also this: an 18W EL84 amp (just two EL84s) can develop pretty decent bass tone if you're pushing the right speaker in the right cabinet. I have an Atomic Reactor 112-18 that's essentially a powered speaker. It's got a single Eminence 12" 200W speaker inside a closed-back cabinet that's larger than my entire 2x12 Carvin Belair combo amp. Also inside the cabinet (but not inside the speaker enclosure part) is an 18W tube power amp, so the whole unit is essentially a powered speaker. At most small-room volumes it has better bass than a 4x12.

But better than tube amps at all is a pair of KRK Rokit 8's, designed to be recording monitors. These things have just an 8" woofer, a 1" tweeter, and power it with a 100W (divided/biamped at 80WLF, 20WHF) each speaker. Run any preamp (tube or SS) or modeler into these things and you will have better (and lower) "great bass tone" than any tube amp run at low volumes. High gain guitar through these things sounds at least as good as it does on any recording.

Think outside the box (the "box" being the big box guitar store in this case)!



The high power tube amp should give him flexibility, at the moment he plays in the bedroom, but if he could go over and jam with a couple of friends anytime he wants and a 40W combo could be used for giging. The studio monitors are quite specific for home use. To get a Metallica and Iron Maiden tone it is highly recommended to use high power tube amps. at home you may not use the full potential of the amp, but it is there available at any time he wants, but with a pair of monitors he is limited to home use and with what he could achieve through those speakers which cost about as much as the amp.

I would never recommend a modeler. Part of the guitar tone is the tube amp and another huge part is the guitar speaker.
#15
Quote by Gab_Azz

I would never recommend a modeler. Part of the guitar tone is the tube amp and another huge part is the guitar speaker.


A decade ago I would have agreed with you.

Now...not so much. And I own several tube amps.
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#16
Can you get a Laney Cub out there?
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#17
Quote by Arby911
A decade ago I would have agreed with you.

Now...not so much. And I own several tube amps.



He has just said that he has a modeller and initially he asked specifically for a tube amp. He just said that he would like to fly the thing so maybe it is not the right time to invest in a tube amp...
#18
Quote by pieri175
Isn't the V-amp going to emulate decently the sound I want, ""despite"" of the amp?

About the amp...
Now I have a lot of new options!
How should I start?
Orange? Blackstar? Peavey? Marshall?
Lets summarize.

- Tiny terror is too big/powerful
- HT-5R is not really tube amp... but isnt it good enough? Or what you are trying to say is that with that money I could get something better?
- Peavey... valveking? which one?
- Marshall, isnt it too deep-purple-tone? My iron maiden reference that i'm seeking is the early 00's, like Dance of Death album. Or steve vai...!


Yeah for new amp Blackstar is bit overpriced. And HT5 is definetly a hybrid. Only single preamp tube and that much distortion. Not that its a bad thing but the way Blackstar markets them as all-tube made people here sour against the brand.

The big brothers (HT20 and up) are bit "better" in this regard. Two tube gain stages pushed by a solid state clean boost circuit for more distortion. Also few clipping diodes which apparently only distort when the gain is way up. Tecnically still a hybrid but tubes are doing most of the work. If I wanted a small "tube amp" i might give HT-20 a go and hunt it down used. I did shortly try the combo version in store and liked it. Dont worry about wattage, they all have volume knobs. Some have two to make things less touch sensitive.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Jul 2, 2015,
#19
I have the Tiny Terror and the low wattage switch definitely works as the amp saturates at lower levels, you can record with a SM57 at virtually almost quiet settings and sound good.
This is what I did recently and you couldn't hear the amp in the next room, it was at very quiet settings. I used Narlie Dude (http://ddynamusic.com/products/narliedude.html) to push the front channel:
https://soundcloud.com/descentintomadness/the-black-plot-solo-competition
#20
Quote by diabolical
I have the Tiny Terror and the low wattage switch definitely works as the amp saturates at lower levels, you can record with a SM57 at virtually almost quiet settings and sound good.
This is what I did recently and you couldn't hear the amp in the next room, it was at very quiet settings. I used Narlie Dude (http://ddynamusic.com/products/narliedude.html) to push the front channel:
https://soundcloud.com/descentintomadness/the-black-plot-solo-competition


If you were at "almost quiet settings" you weren't getting power tube saturation.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#22
Quote by diabolical
Well, there are instances when you have to be quiet and this definitely beat the modeler in sound for the volume it put out.


I can't disagree of course because I wasn't there, I was simply addressing the saturation issue. No disrespect.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#23
Quote by Arby911
I can't disagree of course because I wasn't there, I was simply addressing the saturation issue. No disrespect.


Nah, no problem at all. I think it still drives the power tubes at about half volume when on the 7 watt, not sure what the "gimmick" is but it does work well for my needs. It definitely has a totally different voicing on 7 vs 15 watts, 15 being more open, while 7 more saturated. I actually use them as voicing since I don't care about volume most of the time as I can crank it loud.
#24
Quote by diabolical
Nah, no problem at all. I think it still drives the power tubes at about half volume when on the 7 watt, not sure what the "gimmick" is but it does work well for my needs. It definitely has a totally different voicing on 7 vs 15 watts, 15 being more open, while 7 more saturated. I actually use them as voicing since I don't care about volume most of the time as I can crank it loud.



sorry buddy if you are using a boost then its definitely not that power tubes that are distorting first.
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#25
Honestly, a Blackstar HT40 or Marshall DSL40C would do any of your tones perfectly, and then some. I play in a band that writes some fairly heavy and modern rock and both amps did a good job of matching up, in their own way.
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#26
Thanks for the replies!
But 40W is a lot! I must get soemthing small that I can easily carry on a plane.

So tiny terror is winning?
Remember that I have an amp modeler, which will do the distortion and overdrive to me. Right?
#27
The terror itself would distort at quite a low volume without a modeller. If you are to relocate very soon, maybe you should hold onto your money and get the amp after relocation.

The big difference between a 15W and a 40W is not how loud it is, but how clean it would stay at higher volumes. So a 40W could be used as a clean amp at band volumes, but a 15W is more likely to breakup (distort) at those volumes.
#29
The MT20 is small and light, but it will definitely not stay clean for gigging volumes unless you mic it.
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#30
Well, I rarely play clean and I've never moved my amp outside my bedroom, hahaha.
Although I know it's important to think ahead, I dont intend to get an Amp to play with a band.

Considering this I think a low watt is more adequate, right?
Tiny Terror? MT20? Blackstar HT5 (even so it is hybrid, doenst it get a nice sound? ultimately, that IS what i'm looking for...)
#31
If I get a tube screamer, will it "do the tube sound" for me? I mean, if I buy one, do I still need an upgrade from my orange 20w ss amp? (I only play at home! and I have a V-Amp3)

If I were to get Orange tiny terror, should I get the combo or the head+some cabinet?

I LOOOVED the sound of Boogie Mark V dirty channel... But its kinda expensive. Any similar for less than a thousand? Maybe a pedal?
I also liked a lot the Carvin Legacy 3 sound (maybe because of steve vai? haha). The head costs 900.

If I get a superpower head, I must get a equivalent cab, right?
Last edited by pieri175 at Jul 11, 2015,
#32
TT head or combo...it is up to you.
TS would make tubes "scream", other stuff not so much...

Cabs - up to you, if you buy 100 watt head you'd have to get a cab that can handle that and maybe a touch more and so on, you don't have to get more speakers unless you want 4x12. I have 2x12 that is 150 watt at 16 ohms and I run a 100 watt head through it.

Look at Traynor YCV50B as well. Carvin V3 lunch box is also a nice amp.
#34
A 100W head is not ideal for bedroom practise and is not easy to carry around. Most of these heads are heavy and cumbersome.
#35
Quote by pieri175
If I get a tube screamer, will it "do the tube sound" for me? I mean, if I buy one, do I still need an upgrade from my orange 20w ss amp? (I only play at home! and I have a V-Amp3)



Tubescreamer has nothing to do with tube tone on its own. Its a solid state overdrive pedal that is used either to provide light clipping (which you orange is already capable of) or used to boost the already clipping amplifier for more distortion or tighten it up.

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#36
Between orange tiny terror, blackstar ht5r and carvin v3, what would you recomend?
Why is carvin v3 Bigger, more watt and yet cheaper than orange?
#38
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
Tweaker


What do you mean?

Edit: I meant the Carvin V3MC (micro combo, 50W).
Last edited by pieri175 at Jul 12, 2015,
#39
Quote by pieri175
Hmm, this Carvin V3 is very affordable. Is it good? It's like a low wattage version of the legacy?
Head or combo for this one is equivalent as well?
I havent found a good sound sample on youtube like I did for the legacy and mesa boogie.

https://reverb.com/item/881907-carvin-legacy-vl100-4x12-cab-all-tube-amp-steve-vai
Isn't this an extremely good deal?


I haven't tried it, but I don't think it's a low wattage/lunchbox version of the legacy. I think they also do a low wattage/lunchbox version of the legacy (but I could be wrong).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#40
Carvin V3m combo or head+1x12cab?
Does the versatility of head+cab worth the +50dollars and the difficulty of carrying it?
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