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#1
What do you think of it? If you are for/against/ambivalent please explain why.

I've been very confused with my opinion on it for a while and I would like some other perspectives.
cat
#2
seems shady as fvck and need to read into it more
Eat your pheasant
Drink your wine
Your days are numbered, bourgeois swine!
#3
I like anything that promotes free trade. The people I see complaining are the kinda people who complain about everything, eg. unions, socialists, Bernie Sanders.
#4
I'm against it. Given how little of it actually directly relates to trade, the scope of what it aims to achieve and the general secrecy of the negotiations it is pretty troubling. It strips the general population of even the illusion of sovereignty/control and gives even more power and influence to the elite class.
#6
Quote by ErikLensherr at #33480235
I like anything that promotes free trade. The people I see complaining are the kinda people who complain about everything, eg. unions, socialists, Bernie Sanders.

ron paul 2012
#7
Back when I glossed over some of the intellectual prop. stuff, US seemed to object to a good amount of the parts, which is good (oh hey wow, our Constitution still matters),

and it might better govern international markets that gain competitive advantages through currency manipulation,


but the fact that it was straight-up executive with no public due process has me err on the side of not really caring for it. I am pro-profit like a normal person, but who knows if Wall St is just gonna use this to send us into the double dip recession again.


idc = idk = neutral
.
#8
Against. One, because I'm skeptical of any free trade agreements that may 1) hurt American workers or 2) allow transnational corporations to usurp the power of sovereign nations. Two, because even if I wholeheartedly agreed with everything it stood for, the fact that it has been negotiated in secrecy with little to no transparency should be alarming to anyone on principle. I realize we eventually will be able to (allegedly) see everything before the final vote on TPP. But if it's so great and so progressive, why can't they just tell us what's so great and so progressive about it?
#DTWD
#9
in fewer than several words, can someone tell me what this is.
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#10
Y'all complain about "secrecy" like you would've been paying attention anyway
#11
Quote by ErikLensherr at #33480253
Y'all complain about "secrecy" like you would've been paying attention anyway

we are dorks
#13
Quote by ErikLensherr
I like anything that promotes free trade. The people I see complaining are the kinda people who complain about everything, eg. unions, socialists, Bernie Sanders.

ya just take it babe stop yr bitching
KIFFLOM
#14
I dont see how anyone can be for or against it yet since hardly any specific s have been released. That being said, I understand people who are wary of it because of the secrecy, but I am going to hold off on any judgements untilcwe know more from official statements.
#15
i have no idea wtf this is but if it exists or not, like everything else, it will not directly effect me in any way.
#16
thanks for your responses so far

Quote by Baby Joel
in fewer than several words, can someone tell me what this is.


Wikipedia pls (i don't trust myself to be able to explain it in an unbiased manner in fewer than several words)


Quote by MeGaDeth2314
I dont see how anyone can be for or against it yet since hardly any specific s have been released. That being said, I understand people who are wary of it because of the secrecy, but I am going to hold off on any judgements untilcwe know more from official statements.


I wouldn't have cared about it much until some wikileaks documents were released a few years ago. From what I read there it seemed like a good thing* but I also don't want to make any assumptions about it now because....it's been a few years


*for whom though? this is also why I am confused - it is better for some countries than others and unfortunately I care about at least 3 of the countries involved because my future will be affected by them.
cat
#19
Quote by Baby Joel
in fewer than several words, can someone tell me what this is.


A free trade agreement between a dozen nations. Think NAFTA, but with Malaysia, Vietnam, Japan, etc.
#DTWD
#20
Twitch Plays Pokémon?
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

Baltimore Orioles: 2014 AL Eastern Division Champions, 2017: 73-78
Baltimore Ravens: 2012 World Champions, 2017: 2-0
2017 NFL Pick 'Em: 24-7
#21
It's pretty terrible. Dunno what the current situation is, but the leaked WIP sections are a wish list for corporate power. It's a backdoor for parts of SOPA to make it into law, and it establishes a system for corporations to sue governments for passing legislation that compromises their "rightful" profits. Very little of it has anything to do with tariffs and trade. Plus, after NAFTA decimated the middle class, I'm extremely ambivalent about all things "free trade". In modern America, "free trade" means "clearing the way for Americans to be replaced with foreign workers who make slave wages".

Plus, with fast track authority, it all gets drafted and negotiated (and lobbied) in secret, then given to Congress for a filibuster-proof up/down vote, which is guaranteed. So, basically, the people get absolutely no say in what happens, and are deliberately kept in the dark about what is about to be inflicted on it. Corporations get a seat at the table, but we don't.
#22
Quote by necrosis1193
Twitch Plays Pokémon?


oh man


after the first round hype wore off, though
.
#23
Quote by Not a Les Paul
It's pretty terrible. Dunno what the current situation is, but the leaked WIP sections are a wish list for corporate power. It's a backdoor for parts of SOPA to make it into law, and it establishes a system for corporations to sue governments for passing legislation that compromises their "rightful" profits. Very little of it has anything to do with tariffs and trade. Plus, after NAFTA decimated the middle class, I'm extremely ambivalent about all things "free trade". In modern America, "free trade" means "clearing the way for Americans to be replaced with foreign workers who make slave wages".


Or, as is the case in Malaysia, literal slaves.
#DTWD
#24
I looked at the wikipedia page on it last week.
The "Controversy" section is alarming.
From that, it looks like a really bad thing that will hurt those who are already hurting and only help those that don't need any help (I.E. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer).

And all the secrecy surrounding it can't be a good thing.
There was a bit in there about some people not wanting to negotiate if the things they were negotiating over were NOT kept secret.
What are they afraid of?

The Confederate flag and Gay Marriage were just a ruse to keep this issue out of the limelight.
Last edited by CodeMonk at Jul 1, 2015,
#25
Quote by Not a Les Paul at #33480305
It's pretty terrible. Dunno what the current situation is, but the leaked WIP sections are a wish list for corporate power. It's a backdoor for parts of SOPA to make it into law, and it establishes a system for corporations to sue governments for passing legislation that compromises their "rightful" profits. Very little of it has anything to do with tariffs and trade.


Source on this? It wouldn't surprise me, but the only sources I can find are social media posts with buzzfeed-esque infographs, which are about as sketchy as "social media posts with buzzfeed-esque infographs" sounds.
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

Baltimore Orioles: 2014 AL Eastern Division Champions, 2017: 73-78
Baltimore Ravens: 2012 World Champions, 2017: 2-0
2017 NFL Pick 'Em: 24-7
#26
Only nerds care about SOPA.

Quote by CodeMonk
And all the secrecy surrounding it can't be a good thing.
There was a bit in there about some people not wanting to negotiate if the things they were negotiating over were NOT kept secret.
What are they afraid of?

Well any time you try to reduce tariffs and other trade barriers, you'll have vested interests who benefit from protectionism mobilizing their support and throwing money at Congress to try to kill the deal. It's why we still have agricultural subsidies. That's the real corruption, if keeping it all hush hush until a deal's ready prevents that then fine by me.
#27
Quote by necrosis1193
Source on this? It wouldn't surprise me, but the only sources I can find are social media posts with buzzfeed-esque infographs, which are about as sketchy as "social media posts with buzzfeed-esque infographs" sounds.


https://wikileaks.org/tpp-ip2/

https://wikileaks.org/tpp-investment/press.html
#DTWD
Last edited by primusfan at Jul 1, 2015,
#29
I haven't heard anything good about it yet
Obama is trying to fast-track it saying it's good for free trade and whatever. If it's so good, why keep it secret, specially after there were so many complaints about the parts that were actually released?
#30
Quote by gonzaw
I haven't heard anything good about it yet
Obama is trying to fast-track it saying it's good for free trade and whatever. If it's so good, why keep it secret, specially after there were so many complaints about the parts that were actually released?


It's pretty damn suspicious that Obama is pushing hard for a trade deal that is passing with mostly Republican votes and is generally opposed by his own party. I don't know what the hell a president who claims to speak for the middle class is doing pushing for a deal that will send millions of their jobs to Malaysia or wherever.
#32
If other countries can do their jerb better and cheaper then that's where the jerbs oughta go.
#33
Quote by Fat Lard at #33480440
you know who else wasn't an Alex Jones stoner conspiracy theorist?


the nazis



oh shit m8 ya rekt him
#34
Quote by gonzaw
I haven't heard anything good about it yet
Obama is trying to fast-track it saying it's good for free trade and whatever. If it's so good, why keep it secret, specially after there were so many complaints about the parts that were actually released?

I'm not trying to specifically argue against this but even if the parts made public were the exact opposite people would still complain about it just as much as now.
cat
#35
Quote by guitarxo at #33480452
I'm not trying to specifically argue against this but even if the parts made public were the exact opposite people would still complain about it just as much as now.



yeah because politics (especially in America) are mostly seen in black and white, even though there are clearly grey areas to every issue.
#38
I don't have the mental fortitude, or the legal/economic/social education required to accurately analyse the deal and it's affects, but everything I've read about it seems negative.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/08/the-trans-pacific-partnership-will-lead-to-a-global-race-to-the-bottom

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/whats-wrong-tpp

and the ISDS clauses contained within the deal are super sketchy as well. Basically taking away a GOVERNMENT's ability to legislate where the proposed laws would hurt a foreign investors profits, allowing foreign corporations control over nations.

heres a couple of examples involving tobacco, specifically in reference to the australian one, which was the result of a trade deal with hong konghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UsHHOCH4q8


Theres also more examples involving canada and the ISDS deals they made as part of NAFTA, on the wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement

But the most egregious part of the whole deal in my opinion, is the secrecy, lack of oversight, and the way the deal is being rushed through US congress. It reeks of shit.
/rant
Last edited by Gatecrasher53 at Jul 2, 2015,
#39
Quote by Not a Les Paul
It's pretty terrible. Dunno what the current situation is, but the leaked WIP sections are a wish list for corporate power. It's a backdoor for parts of SOPA to make it into law, and it establishes a system for corporations to sue governments for passing legislation that compromises their "rightful" profits. Very little of it has anything to do with tariffs and trade. Plus, after NAFTA decimated the middle class, I'm extremely ambivalent about all things "free trade". In modern America, "free trade" means "clearing the way for Americans to be replaced with foreign workers who make slave wages".

Plus, with fast track authority, it all gets drafted and negotiated (and lobbied) in secret, then given to Congress for a filibuster-proof up/down vote, which is guaranteed. So, basically, the people get absolutely no say in what happens, and are deliberately kept in the dark about what is about to be inflicted on it. Corporations get a seat at the table, but we don't.

+1

The some of the things they have put in TPP and TTIP are not to be presented till 5 years after it starts. One of the things is that governments cannot nationalize companies anymore like some European countries did with the banks. It means that in the case of a next financial crisis we have to resort to handing a blank cheque like the USA did to the banks, and we won't have the power to say tell the current people who ****ed up the bank in the first place to **** off.

But yeah, any trade agreement that gives companies the right to sue governments over any legislation and to sue them for POTENTIAL lost profits, is a horrible deal in my opinion. The people should get to decide the legislation in their country, not the companies.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#40
Quote by ErikLensherr
Well any time you try to reduce tariffs and other trade barriers, you'll have vested interests who benefit from protectionism mobilizing their support and throwing money at Congress to try to kill the deal. It's why we still have agricultural subsidies.


please visit my state

then i can fully appreciate laughing at you
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