#1
Hello, I'm a bassist that is currently looking for a decent electric guitar starter pack that would sound good for heavy music, meaning it sounds good in low tunings and the rest, been wanting to learn electric for a while as a side to my main instrument. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
#2
Would be good to know a budget.

I'd stay away from anything labelled as a starter pack, though, because there's a reason they're cheap. A lot of retailers will do discounted bundle offers, which will very probably offer better value for you.
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#3
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Would be good to know a budget.

I'd stay away from anything labelled as a starter pack, though, because there's a reason they're cheap. A lot of retailers will do discounted bundle offers, which will very probably offer better value for you.


I would be looking to spend around £500 if that helps, and I'll have to keep an eye out for them thank you.
#4
Stay away from packs. Seriously. Get something good but not necessarily new. There are lots of awesome things in Ebay, fi.
#5
Go used. Avoid starter packs; they're all junk.

What are you looking for in a guitar? Wanting something that sounds 'good' with low tunings is kind of meaningless. What do you define as 'good'? What sort of tones do you want specifically? What sort of features are you looking for in a guitar? What sort of body style do you want? What scale length? What sort of neck feel are you after? What fingerboard radius are you after? What style of construction? What kind of bridge? What kind of pickup configuration etc. You must be specific as to what your needs are.

If you don't know what you want, you need to go down to a guitar store and play as many guitars as possible so that you develop an idea of what you want.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Jul 6, 2015,
#6
£500 is easily enough to not have to look at starter packs. I agree with t00deepblue, if you can give us more info, that will help.
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#7
Starter packs are really...not good. They're meant to be the option for parents of 9-13 year olds who aren't even sure if their kid will play for more than a week or two.
#8
I'd also pass on the starter pack and get an amp for 200 (Peavey Vypyr VIP2) and a guitar for 300 (Jackson JS or BC Rich Villain Plot/Jr V). Assuming that you can do more or less the same with 500 pounds as with 500 dollars.
#9
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Go used. Avoid starter packs; they're all junk.

What are you looking for in a guitar? Wanting something that sounds 'good' with low tunings is kind of meaningless. What do you define as 'good'? What sort of tones do you want specifically? What sort of features are you looking for in a guitar? What sort of body style do you want? What scale length? What sort of neck feel are you after? What fingerboard radius are you after? What style of construction? What kind of bridge? What kind of pickup configuration etc. You must be specific as to what your needs are.

If you don't know what you want, you need to go down to a guitar store and play as many guitars as possible so that you develop an idea of what you want.


Well first off scale length doesn't bother me as I'm used to playing a 34 scale bass, my current bass is a 5 string and so has the width around the same as a 7 and 8 string guitar, body wise I would like something that is comfortable when played close to the body rather than down low by the waist, I don't know much about guitar pickups and the difference and so something that would give me similar tones from bands such as Slipknot, Chelsea Grin and Bring Me the Horizon's earlier stuff. At the end of the day this would be my first electric guitar and so I really just want a guitar with the specifications I have just given and that can handle low tunings as well such as Drop G like Chelsea Grin's newer material.
#10
Quote by Robert2511 at #33487976
Well first off scale length doesn't bother me as I'm used to playing a 34 scale bass, my current bass is a 5 string and so has the width around the same as a 7 and 8 string guitar, body wise I would like something that is comfortable when played close to the body rather than down low by the waist, I don't know much about guitar pickups and the difference and so something that would give me similar tones from bands such as Slipknot, Chelsea Grin and Bring Me the Horizon's earlier stuff. At the end of the day this would be my first electric guitar and so I really just want a guitar with the specifications I have just given and that can handle low tunings as well such as Drop G like Chelsea Grin's newer material.

If you're going to be tuning your guitar so ludicrously low, I'd suggest getting either a baritone 6 string or a baritone 7. Active pickups are generally more preferable in that situation too, but with exceptions. Unfortunately baritone guitars are rather uncommon as they are filling a bit of a small niche, and those that do exist are usually marketed for players that aren't on such a tight budget as you.

If you live in the US, Agile on Rondo Music is probably your only option that's within budget, unless you get very lucky with buying something else used.

http://www.rondomusic.com/Baritone_Guitars.html

The only other thing I could recommend (although it might blow your budget) is the Ibanez RGD Series.

Another thing to bear in mind is that tuning that low risks blowing up conventional guitar speakers at high volumes relatively easily. Most guitar amps and cabinets are not voiced particularly well for fundamental frequencies that low.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Jul 6, 2015,
#11
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
If you're going to be tuning your guitar so ludicrously low, I'd suggest getting either a baritone 6 string or a baritone 7. Active pickups are generally more preferable in that situation too, but with exceptions. Unfortunately baritone guitars are rather uncommon as they are filling a bit of a small niche, and those that do exist are usually marketed for players that aren't on such a tight budget as you.

If you live in the US, Agile on Rondo Music is probably your only option that's within budget, unless you get very lucky with buying something else used.

http://www.rondomusic.com/Baritone_Guitars.html

The only other thing I could recommend (although it might blow your budget) is the Ibanez RGD Series.

Another thing to bear in mind is that tuning that low risks blowing up conventional guitar speakers at high volumes relatively easily. Most guitar amps and cabinets are not voiced particularly well for fundamental frequencies that low.


I'll have to give the site a look and see, thank you. It isn't a necessity that it will be able to tune that low, just preference, I could settle for higher tunings such as Drop A.
#12
For amp I'd either go for a peavey vypyr 15 or 40 watt, or a pod hd(bean). For guitar either an entry level schecter or ibanez. Or go around to some pawnshops. I recently got a near flawless ltd ed500 for less than $200.
#13
Quote by Robert2511
I'll have to give the site a look and see, thank you. It isn't a necessity that it will be able to tune that low, just preference, I could settle for higher tunings such as Drop A.

A seven string will also get you the tunings you desire but....Just a small piece of advice for you. Learn the basic chords, bar chords, intervals, and scales in E standard tuning first. It'll help out in the long run and you'll avoid a lot of confusion. You can always chug away Deathcore style in low tunings w/o knowing exactly what your doing and have fun doing it, But in the end you'll just sound like a bass player playing the guitar & never really move past the beginner stage. Just my 2 cents. I say that cause i couldnt imagine trying to learn guitar as a beginner with a guitar tuned to drop C when the book im learning from is all E standard.
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#14
Quote by pantallica87
A seven string will also get you the tunings you desire but....Just a small piece of advice for you. Learn the basic chords, bar chords, intervals, and scales in E standard tuning first. It'll help out in the long run and you'll avoid a lot of confusion. You can always chug away Deathcore style in low tunings w/o knowing exactly what your doing and have fun doing it, But in the end you'll just sound like a bass player playing the guitar & never really move past the beginner stage. Just my 2 cents. I say that cause i couldnt imagine trying to learn guitar as a beginner with a guitar tuned to drop C when the book im learning from is all E standard.


Yeah I have already been looking at 7 strings since I already use a 5 string bass and so it would be similar in a sense, plus all 3 guitarists of Chelsea Grin use 7 strings from Music Man if I'm correct and they tune to Drop A and G: AEADGBE and GDGCFAD, but then again in Bring Me the Horizon the band have tuned to Drop G as well using 6 strings so I would assume they use baritone guitars, before starting this thread I thought baritone guitars where for when someone wanted to tune a whole octave down, didn't know that you needed them for tuning to tuning such as Drop A and G, how low could a guitar go before you need to get a baritone? And about playing in standard and learning basics that wouldn't be a problem, I listen to and play music that is in standard and so I would be definitely playing chords, plus even Chelsea Grin and BMTH often use chords in their music.
#15
Quote by Robert2511
how low could a guitar go before you need to get a baritone?

This is a bit of a subjective question.

The problem with tuning so low when the scale length of the guitar is so short is that in order to offset the shorter scale length of most guitars, you need to use exceptionally heavy strings. And the shorter the guitar's scale length is, the heavier the strings you require. And that creates its own set of problems. With extremely heavy string gauges, the strings begin to not really be long enough for them to emit their overtones very effectively, especially in terms of treble frequencies. Plucking the lower strings on the top frets produces a very dull and indistinct sound that many people don't like. And the effect worsens the heavier the string gauge is. Having a longer scale length allows for heavier gauges of strings without encountering this problem so much. Some people are bothered more by this effect than other people. A lot of people don't really mind because the problem is encountered in areas of the guitar that aren't played all that frequently anyway.

But having a very long scale length has its own problems too. Tuning such an instrument to E standard puts an enormous amount of tension on the neck, much more than a conventional neck. And this causes complications such as string breakage or even neck warpage over a long period of time.

At which point does person say, 'I need a guitar with a longer scale length for what I am doing' is a very gray area. There's no right or wrong scale length for a given tuning or string gauge. But taking tuning, scale length and string gauge to either extreme can be detrimental.
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#16
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
This is a bit of a subjective question.

The problem with tuning so low when the scale length of the guitar is so short is that in order to offset the shorter scale length of most guitars, you need to use exceptionally heavy strings. And the shorter the guitar's scale length is, the heavier the strings you require. And that creates its own set of problems. With extremely heavy string gauges, the strings begin to not really be long enough for them to emit their overtones very effectively, especially in terms of treble frequencies. Plucking the lower strings on the top frets produces a very dull and indistinct sound that many people don't like. And the effect worsens the heavier the string gauge is. Having a longer scale length allows for heavier gauges of strings without encountering this problem so much. Some people are bothered more by this effect than other people. A lot of people don't really mind because the problem is encountered in areas of the guitar that aren't played all that frequently anyway.

But having a very long scale length has its own problems too. Tuning such an instrument to E standard puts an enormous amount of tension on the neck, much more than a conventional neck. And this causes complications such as string breakage or even neck warpage over a long period of time.

At which point does person say, 'I need a guitar with a longer scale length for what I am doing' is a very gray area. There's no right or wrong scale length for a given tuning or string gauge. But taking tuning, scale length and string gauge to either extreme can be detrimental.


That was very informative thank you, I think it would be more practical for me to get a 7 or 8 string then since I would like to be able to play some songs in standard, but also be able to play songs that require lower tunings.
#17
According to uberproaudio.com, Lee Malia (BMTH) uses a Gibson Les Pauls with 12-80 strings. Thats an insane gauge IMO and I can only imagine the nightmare of trying to get rid of that string buzz. A baritone would be the smarter choice IMO, but he's apparently pulling it off with no problem. Kinda reaffirms TOODEEPBLUE comments. Its all subjective and theres no right or wrong way. The choice is yours.
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#18
Quote by pantallica87
According to uberproaudio.com, Lee Malia (BMTH) uses a Gibson Les Pauls with 12-80 strings. Thats an insane gauge IMO and I can only imagine the nightmare of trying to get rid of that string buzz. A baritone would be the smarter choice IMO, but he's apparently pulling it off with no problem. Kinda reaffirms TOODEEPBLUE comments. Its all subjective and theres no right or wrong way. The choice is yours.

Oddly enough, his Epiphone sig model comes with 10-46's fitted.

I suspect he's had work done to the bridge and nut, so the heavier strings actually sit in.
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Last edited by slapsymcdougal at Jul 7, 2015,
#19
Quote by pantallica87
According to uberproaudio.com, Lee Malia (BMTH) uses a Gibson Les Pauls with 12-80 strings. Thats an insane gauge IMO and I can only imagine the nightmare of trying to get rid of that string buzz. A baritone would be the smarter choice IMO, but he's apparently pulling it off with no problem. Kinda reaffirms TOODEEPBLUE comments. Its all subjective and theres no right or wrong way. The choice is yours.


Well from what I've heard and read he is apparently getting his own signature soon so he'll probably have that set to deal with the heavier tunings, what is the standard gauge for a guitar in standard? I know the gauges for bass strings but not guitar strings.

Edit: his signatures strings are 10-46, though this is probably because their newer material is less heavy and they have been sticking to the C Standard/Drop A# range.
Last edited by Robert2511 at Jul 7, 2015,
#20
Well, Fenders come out of the factory with 9-42, Gibsons tend to have 10-46.
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#21
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Well, Fenders come out of the factory with 9-42, Gibsons tend to have 10-46.


So an 80 gauge string would be for someone who wanted to go to Drop G.
#22
I have 12-64 on my seven and I can tune to drop G. I would think 80 is unnecessary and uncomfortable for chords. Its practically a bass string, but its user preference in the end.
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#23
Quote by slapsymcdougal at #33488991
Oddly enough, his Epiphone sig model comes with 10-46's fitted.

I suspect he's had work done to the bridge and nut, so the heavier strings actually sit in.

That's a pretty neat-looking guitar actually.

But yeah, an LP with an .80 is not something I would do. It's the guitar equivalent of using suspension bridge cables and you'll run into the the problem of losing definition in your sound on the higher frets at the lower strings for sure with regular guitar scale lengths. You're also likely to have intonation problems.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Jul 7, 2015,
#24
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Oddly enough, his Epiphone sig model comes with 10-46's fitted.

I suspect he's had work done to the bridge and nut, so the heavier strings actually sit in.

His guitar tech must either get paid a lot or hate his f*cking guts.

Quote by Robert2511
So an 80 gauge string would be for someone who wanted to go to Drop G.

As a fan of thicker strings, even on a 7-string, there's no reason to go past 70 gauge. It's just unnecessary. If you want to play strings heavier than that, play a bass guitar.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jul 7, 2015,
#25
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
His guitar tech must either get paid a lot or hate his f*cking guts.


As a fan of thicker strings, even on a 7-string, there's no reason to go past 70 gauge. It's just unnecessary. If you want to play strings heavier than that, play a bass guitar.


I do play bass haha, I made this thread asking what guitar is should get as a side instrument to my main haha.
#26
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
That's a pretty neat-looking guitar actually.

But yeah, an LP with an .80 is not something I would do. It's the guitar equivalent of using suspension bridge cables and you'll run into the the problem of losing definition in your sound on the higher frets at the lower strings for sure with regular guitar scale lengths. You're also likely to have intonation problems.


Thanks, I'll definitely keep that in mind when making my purchase.
#28
Quote by Robert2511
I do play bass haha, I made this thread asking what guitar is should get as a side instrument to my main haha.

Then you understand my point.

Guitar does NOT need to go into mid-bass range. High bass range? Yeah, that works. Mid-bass range?...Why? In other words, don't get too heavy with it.


I play bass on the side too, and an 80 gauge is just...it evokes this picture:


It's silly, useless, etc., etc.
#29
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Then you understand my point.

Guitar does NOT need to go into mid-bass range. High bass range? Yeah, that works. Mid-bass range?...Why? In other words, don't get too heavy with it.


I play bass on the side too, and an 80 gauge is just...it evokes this picture:


It's silly, useless, etc., etc.


Hahaha that made me giggle haha, in all honesty its just a person's personally preference at the end of the day, but like in that video he said he uses 80 gauge for C Standard, I mean there is wanting a heavy sound and then there is that, like I know Jake Pitts from Black Veil Brides plays in Drop C most of the time and his gauge is 56 I think.