#1
As a preface, I posted recently that I'm looking for an amp for bedroom guitar playing, for Vai, Satch, thrash similar soloing. Sometimes I play blues like SRV songs.

I like amplitube on my iPad with studio headphones. The bass is a bit thin but I'm living with it. I think rather than get a combo amp I'll keep with amplitube and go the monitor route. If I can improve the bass some too it would be nice.

I looked at this thread https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1661038
I'm considering the yamaha's. Not sure if 2 5" or 1 8" is better for guitar practice. Also not sure on need for subwoofers.

Additionally to work with my iPad I would need to only connect these by the regular headphone jack. Not sure if that's a problem for sound quality.

Price would be $400 total max, hopefully $300 or less.

I'm open to brand, etc. - just want to get something that sounds nice for practice.

Thank you!
#2
Im not sure if its something Im doing wrong or what.. But I have never gotten software modellers to sound pleasing while monitoring through full range speakers. Some reason, it always sounds weak or too bassy / muddy no matter what, and it sounds incredibly weak unless i soak it in gain (which i rarely do normally). And I have a pretty good interface (rme babyface). Ive tried low level computer monitors, midrange studio monitors like krks, and a 210 kustom active pa speaker- they always have that weird muddy unarticulated quality (yes ive tried many different impulses too).

On the other hand, when i monitor through headphones, it usually sounds absolutely amazing. I dont really get it.

One time I ran my interface out into my engl powerball fx loop return and then into my mesa 412 using a mesa rectifier model for my software, and it sounded really really good. It almost seems like the full range monitor thing is ruining it somehow.

With all of that said, i guess i would go with an active stage monitor type speaker if I was you. Shoot for at least 100 watts and a 10 or 12 in speaker. Check Peavey and Kustom and Carvin. But dont be surprised if it sounds worse than headphones or a full analog setup. I wouldnt bother with a sub woofer
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#4
So the behringer and yamahas as almost the same price where I live. Any more opinions on those?

Also since the ipad has just one audio out, would it make any difference to get 2 speakers over 1? Is it just automatically going to be in stereo?

Would it be better to get 1 7"?

Price-wise I noticed 7" is much less than 8"
Last edited by 21GunSalute at Jul 8, 2015,
#5
I'm using a pair of KRK Rokit 8's. They run about $250 each new, and have pretty much all the bass extension you'll need for a medium-size room (subwoofer not required, IOW, unless you're going to practice bass a lot or have a keyboard that produces a lot of it). I bought the 8's because I didn't want to have to bother with a sub for most things.

Before you panic about the price, that's the cost of a new Gen 3 Rokit 8. Last year they transitioned from Gen 2's (which were outstanding) to the Gen 3, and they dropped the new price on the Gen 2's to $125 each or so. In other words, you should be able to find used Rokit 8 Gen2's for around $100-125 each. The main difference between the two is a slight difference in power amp output (something like 90W per speaker compared to 100W for the new Gen3s).

Your iPad outputs in stereo, your headphone output is in stereo. To use the output with just one speaker, you'll want to sum the stereo output for mono.
Last edited by dspellman at Jul 8, 2015,
#6
Quote by Watterboy
Im not sure if its something Im doing wrong or what.. But I have never gotten software modellers to sound pleasing while monitoring through full range speakers. Some reason, it always sounds weak or too bassy / muddy no matter what, and it sounds incredibly weak unless i soak it in gain (which i rarely do normally).


Sounds like a single simple basic issue.

I normally use a guitar preamp (Carvin Quad-X, Mesa Triaxis, etc.) or a modeler (Pod HD, Axe-FX, etc.) into the full-range seutp. No issues.

Quote by Watterboy
One time I ran my interface out into my engl powerball fx loop return and then into my mesa 412 using a mesa rectifier model for my software, and it sounded really really good. It almost seems like the full range monitor thing is ruining it somehow.


On my modelers, there are different settings for feeding a "guitar amp" as opposed to "studio" (direct recording, full-range system).
#7
Quote by dspellman
Sounds like a single simple basic issue.

I normally use a guitar preamp (Carvin Quad-X, Mesa Triaxis, etc.) or a modeler (Pod HD, Axe-FX, etc.) into the full-range seutp. No issues.


On my modelers, there are different settings for feeding a "guitar amp" as opposed to "studio" (direct recording, full-range system).


Yea, but I am talking about software models on a computer, such as lepou, peavey revalver or bias desktop. Through headphones they sound great (better than analog out loud); but through a full range monitor they sound terrible (definitely worse than an analog outloud setup).
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#8
I can't say the same thing...my modelers sound pretty good through monitors. I prefer to reamp my finished product via real amps but I can't say that my monitor mix sounds any worse than my headphone mix...

@Watterboy - I'm thinking that you must have bad acoustics in your listening environment or maybe something is wrong with your output channel/uncalibrated monitors/etc...

@21GunSalute - I'd imagine you want to get 2 monitors for stereo image as modelers really open up then plus your output is stereo so whatever you play against in Garageband or whatever software you're using will probably sound better on 2 monitors.

You'd probably need a 1/8 stereo to 2x1/4 mono cable unless you're using one of the fancier audio interfaces that has 1/4 outputs (Mackie, IK, etc.).

Personally I think the Rokit might be okay monitors for mixing as I've heard some guys do good things on them, but I think they sound like cardboard and without the sub they're very heavy in the mids, reminiscent in the nails on chalkboard sound of the NS-10, at least to me. What I am saying is that they're usually jarring to listen to for long amount of time.

Lokk up the Behringer and M-Audio range, I am also quite happy for home use with Alesis, but am not sure what is out there from their brand as I think they discontinued the Monitor One Mk II which I use.
Last edited by diabolical at Jul 8, 2015,
#9
Quote by diabolical
I can't say the same thing...my modelers sound pretty good through monitors. I prefer to reamp my finished product via real amps but I can't say that my monitor mix sounds any worse than my headphone mix...

@Watterboy - I'm thinking that you must have bad acoustics in your listening environment or maybe something is wrong with your output channel/uncalibrated monitors/etc
.


It cant be the acoustics of my environment because its been a problem Ive had in three totally different living spaces- plus if my room had bad acoustics then I imagine my guitar amps would sound like garbage too, but they all sound good. Not sure what could be wrong with my output channel. Ive used a number of different drivers, from asio4all, windows drivers, and the "high quality" rme babyface driver. My old interface was an art dual tube pre. Same very dull weak sound when playing out loud through full range speakers. Maybe its the latency, but ive used my rme with a buffer as low as 48 or something but it doesnt really help.
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#10
Quote by Watterboy
It cant be the acoustics of my environment because its been a problem Ive had in three totally different living spaces- plus if my room had bad acoustics then I imagine my guitar amps would sound like garbage too, but they all sound good. Not sure what could be wrong with my output channel. Ive used a number of different drivers, from asio4all, windows drivers, and the "high quality" rme babyface driver. My old interface was an art dual tube pre. Same very dull weak sound when playing out loud through full range speakers. Maybe its the latency, but ive used my rme with a buffer as low as 48 or something but it doesnt really help.


This is weird

Don't know what to say, maybe the monitors are bad? Are they powered? If they are - what about the back, does it have calibration? Usually sims sound better to me through monitors than through headphones, unless I guess you have fantastic pair with a really good headphone amp, better than the interface converters.
#11
Quote by diabolical
This is weird

Don't know what to say, maybe the monitors are bad? Are they powered? If they are - what about the back, does it have calibration? Usually sims sound better to me through monitors than through headphones, unless I guess you have fantastic pair with a really good headphone amp, better than the interface converters.


Idk either. Ive tried a few different active monitors and they all have the problem (and ive tried three different interfaces, and the babyface is supposed to be quality). Its weird because im not even using super hyped headphones (sony mdr 7506).

P.s- yanno, its not just computer modellers that have the problem actually. If I mic up my guitar amp and monitor in my headphones it sounds amazing; but if i monitor on any of my monitors it has that same overall weak dull sound. Really weird. But it sounds like its only me who has this problem, so maybe ts doesnt have to worry
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#12
Quote by Watterboy
Yea, but I am talking about software models on a computer, such as lepou, peavey revalver or bias desktop. Through headphones they sound great (better than analog out loud); but through a full range monitor they sound terrible (definitely worse than an analog outloud setup).


Helluva thing.
#13
So..honestly the yamahas have by far the best return etc policy where I live. Now thinking about 2 hs5 monitors. Any experience with these?
#15
I have used Rokit 5 and currently have M-audio AV40s which were only about $150pr. Guitar thru Garageband amp sims sound just fine. Quite hifi actually for such cheapie powered monitors.

Make sure you are connected correctly for best sound:

Guitar> interface > laptop amp sims > interface > "powered monitors"

If your monitors do not have an internal power amp (passive monitors) they will sound weak and muddy until you add an amplifier into the chain.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#16
Quote by Cajundaddy
I have used Rokit 5 and currently have M-audio AV40s which were only about $150pr. Guitar thru Garageband amp sims sound just fine. Quite hifi actually for such cheapie powered monitors.

Make sure you are connected correctly for best sound:

Guitar> interface > laptop amp sims > interface > "powered monitors"

If your monitors do not have an internal power amp (passive monitors) they will sound weak and muddy until you add an amplifier into the chain.


I have the Rokit 5s, too Active. Idk why my setup sounds like poop. Like, it sounds worse than my Line 6 Spider 15. Go figure that. By the way, I've also tried two different computers, too (one laptop, and one med-high end PC that I built.
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#17
Quote by Watterboy
I have the Rokit 5s, too Active. Idk why my setup sounds like poop. Like, it sounds worse than my Line 6 Spider 15. Go figure that.


It's not your speakers then. You must have some interface/gain/ I/O issue. Recheck all your cords, connections, and get unity gain thru to your speakers. Maybe take pictures. Something is f'ed up in your signal chain.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#19
Hmm Behringer..anyone else tried both? I have nowhere I can try them before buying.
#20
I know Behringer is not a crazy good brand but I was actually impressed with this product.
There are quite a few decent monitor pairs even in low budget, maybe do a search for what you can get and be more specific on the choices.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/powered-studio-monitors
#21
Quote by diabolical
I know Behringer is not a crazy good brand but I was actually impressed with this product.
There are quite a few decent monitor pairs even in low budget, maybe do a search for what you can get and be more specific on the choices.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/powered-studio-monitors


Thanks - by the way, what did you think of the m-audio's? I saw elsewhere someone recommended them. How would you rate them against the Behringers?
#22
Which M-Audio?

Out of the low budget the Alesis Monitor one were my fave and that's what I got for home, but I don't think they make them. I had Samson for home before Alesis and these were fine too, maybe a little biased to lows and cloudy mids but for $150 used they were fine :smile:.
I did a tracking session for a friend on his Maudio bx-5 and it worked fine, the Behringer Truth for the price are actually quite good.
#23
Quote by diabolical
The Rokit sounds like poop so I'm with Watterboy on that one. I've gotten better results with the M-Audio BX5s over these.

Rokit =


Dont mean to revive this thread after a couple weeks, but I thought it was relevant input. Like I said, I have the KRK Rokit 5s (Gen 2, I believe), and I wasn't really recommending them. I read a lot of reviews online that say they have overly "hyped bass"; with my KRKs, I have been finding that they are rather hollow/boxy sounding and seem to have barely any bass extension at all. Now I am beginning to think that this was INFACT the hyped "low mids", making it more muddy/tubby/boxy sounding (lets say between 250hz-450hz ish is probably the frequency range that they boosted to compensate for low end), and not really adding any physical thump/feel to the low end.

I think the Rokit 5s G2 bass extends to 53hz, but it seems to have a really high roll off from everything below 80-100hz; can't feel bass guitar or kick at all.

To remedy these two problems (I own a RME Babyface with the RME TotalMix software), I added a little master eq that made the Rokit 5s not only sound much more pleasant, but they sound much more similar to typical car stereo systems (where I base most of my mixing decisions, because in my opinion I think its really important to sound great in peoples' cars). So, I did a 12(! honestly, the roll off is THAT bad !)db shelf boost at 80hz (this brought back the feel and thump of the kick and bass guitar, which Ive missed while Im mixing at home. And I also did a relatively fairly wide 3.5db cut at 330hz to get rid of that low mid boxy/hype bullshit that the speakers probably add.

Granted, I know doing this overall mastering is a bit of a no-no for speakers I intend to use for casual mixing, but the KRKs arent really regarded as flat response or true anyways. They sound better now and are a much better reflection of other sound systems that I listen on and mix to. Hope this helps somebody!
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Last edited by Watterboy at Jul 28, 2015,
#24
Quote by Watterboy


To remedy these two problems (I own a RME Babyface with the RME TotalMix software), I added a little master eq that made the Rokit 5s not only sound much more pleasant, but they sound much more similar to typical car stereo systems (where I base most of my mixing decisions, because in my opinion I think its really important to sound great in peoples' cars). So, I did a 12(! honestly, the roll off is THAT bad !)db shelf boost at 80hz (this brought back the feel and thump of the kick and bass guitar, which Ive missed while Im mixing at home. And I also did a relatively fairly wide 3.5db cut at 330hz to get rid of that low mid boxy/hype bullshit that the speakers probably add.

Granted, I know doing this overall mastering is a bit of a no-no for speakers I intend to use for casual mixing, but the KRKs arent really regarded as flat response or true anyways. They sound better now and are a much better reflection of other sound systems that I listen on and mix to. Hope this helps somebody!


It makes sense now why your amp modelers dpn't sound right to you on speakers.
I don't know what this could be doing to the overall mix image
The KRKs are supposed to be used with subwoofer so that's why they sound just tubby. Some of the worst monitors out there IMO only lows and highs, I'm talking the version of yours with the sub. I totally hated them but I guess they'reOK for gangsta rap.
#25
Quote by diabolical
It makes sense now why your amp modelers dpn't sound right to you on speakers.
I don't know what this could be doing to the overall mix image
The KRKs are supposed to be used with subwoofer so that's why they sound just tubby. Some of the worst monitors out there IMO only lows and highs, I'm talking the version of yours with the sub. I totally hated them but I guess they'reOK for gangsta rap.


Well, I just added this post overall eq yesterday. Amp modellers have always sounded bad on them before the eq, but I havent tried using them since Ive added the eq. But I notice that songs sound just as full on the krks as they do on other monitoring systems now, and not so tubby.

I dont know if I would agree that theyre the worst monitors out there though lol. They have really clear upper mids and highs; when I monitor at low to medium volumes, I can hear all sorts of nuances that arent always perceived in other environments. Theyre definitely not flat, but they are a pretty good translation to what average listeners are using (aka, if they sound good on the krks then they will at least sound good in the car and on ear buds). It seems like its give and take with whichever monitor you choose
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#26
Quote by diabolical

The KRKs are supposed to be used with subwoofer so that's why they sound just tubby. Some of the worst monitors out there IMO only lows and highs, I'm talking the version of yours with the sub. I totally hated them but I guess they'reOK for gangsta rap.


Feldercarb.

I can't speak for the Rokit 5's, but the Rokit 8's can be EQ'd quite easily, and are certainly not "the worst monitors out there," particularly for the money. i don't often use them with a sub, but I have one available. I've also got more expensive recording monitors that you'd probably approve of. I just don't do much recording, so don't haul them out very often.

Particularly for use with modeling software (the title of the thread), the 8's are a really good choice. They can do a great job of mirroring the PA systems you'll run into for live work, for starters. But my RTA says I can get them pretty seriously neutral in my room with a minimal amount of EQ. I've got mine on Ultimate Support MS90-36s filled with sand, and the room has bass traps, etc. Note that the room was never set up for recording, and aside from running some things through the sequencer portion of the Korg Kronos or into a lap top as a sort of "note-taking" procedure, I'm not doing much recording and they work perfectly in that role. They're great with the Kronos/M-Audio stack, produce some solid drum output and can be used competently for bass. Without the sub.

I'm not sure what your experience is with them, or what your room setup might be, but I'd have to say that the description you're putting out there is really over the top and significantly off-base.
Last edited by dspellman at Jul 29, 2015,
#27
KRKs had a great marketing team or the lemmings in GC got a better commission for pushing them, I don't know but for a few years every "kid producer" that came through our studio was hailing the awesomeness of the KRKs, and had definitely slanted mixes that had to be fixed for low end. So I finally decided to check them out...wasn't impressed a single bit.
I think the Alesis Studio One (now sadly discontinued) had a fuller and better image...but again, I guess everything with monitors is subjective.

I usually throw a mix on a few systems before calling it done, and one of these is an old Panasonic bookshelf stereo that I've had since my teenage years and really know how it sounds. Mind me, it is a 3 way bookshelf speaker that sounds really good and it cost $600 in the early nineties...but definitely not a bona fide monitor.
#28
Quote by diabolical
KRKs had a great marketing team or the lemmings in GC got a better commission for pushing them, I don't know but for a few years every "kid producer" that came through our studio was hailing the awesomeness of the KRKs, and had definitely slanted mixes that had to be fixed for low end. So I finally decided to check them out...wasn't impressed a single bit. .


I think they got some marketing traction from having Gibson take them over. They're easily recognizable with the yellow cones. I've also got a set of the VHTs that are seriously more expensive, and I think that folks sometimes see those in the background of some talking head studio interview and associate them with the cheaper versions ("halo product"). With all due respect, I doubt that most would critically mix with them (though some do), but for modeled guitar, keyboards and some bass practice, they're just fine.

I don't think the 5's have quite enough bottom end, and I would imagine that a mix done with those would have that bit exaggerated to compensate. The 8's have plenty, which is why I got them instead of the 5's and a sub.
#29
Yea so I just tried the modelling again with the KRK 5s with the EQ- it sounds wayy better. You guys are definitely right about needing the sub with the 5s. They are a little expensive but im gonna try to get my hands on one instead of using this eq
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