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#1
so I've been learning thigns from the lessons of Paul Wardingham and i'm super confused with a certain part.

the chord progression is

Bb maj to E Maj
he says that you can use the Bb half whole dimiisshed to tackle both chords.. that makes sense cause you can build those chords from that scale. What makes it confusing to me is that he says he uses Bb lydian(Bb C D E F G A) for the Bb maj chord which i get because it's a maj chord so lydian can work, but then says you can use E Aeloian Dominant(E F# G# A B C D) for the 2nd chord...
i'm guessing that's not being diatonic? and what key would that be in?! i've been trying to figure it out and i just can't seem to get it..
#2
^Some of this is accurate and some of it is less than.

-You can tackle both chords with Bb WH, because Bb WH and E WH are the same scale.

-When you have two chords far apart like that, they are both (not literally, but as far as note choice goes) standalone I chords in their own keys. And because they are triads, we can extend them however we want.

-So yes, the "vanilla" sound is to use Bb Lydian and E Lydian for each chord. You can also use the plain major scale but many people complain about their precious "avoid note".

-That E scale you have listed is called E Mixolydan b6. It's a mode of A Melodic Minor, and it turns that E major into E7 (9 b13).

-This is just a coloristic choice and has very little (but not nothing) to do with the chord progression, although the C and D natural provide a nice link with the preceding Bb chord.

^And that, is most likely Wardingham's thought process. He's using the outside scale over the weaker chord (rhythmically speaking) in the progression in order to target essential notes (E G# C D) over both chords in an attempt to create some sort of unity between two distant harmonies.

So, in another sense: You have Bbmaj and Emaj but with those scale choices you listed we can change things to:

-Using HW: Bb7 (b9 #9 #11 13) - E7 (b9 #9 #11 13)

-Using Lydian: Bbmaj7 (#11) - Emaj7 (#11)

-Using E Mixoldyian b6* the whole time: Bb (with VERY ambiguous tensions) - E7 (9 b13)

* Or just use regular Mixo b6 in both keys: Bb9 (b13) - E9 (b13)

Or any combination of these, even multiple over the same chord!

TLDR: Welcome to jazz, where the solos are made up and the chords on the page don't matter. You're playing your own version of the chord progression now.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#3
wow man, thanks a ton for your reply, it's been bugging me for some time now. I was just trying to think diatonic and that's what was frying my brain. Very cool and interesting approach. So, in other words you don't necessarily stick to a key, you see each chord as an independent chord?
also, about the mixolydian b6. I'm very unknowledgeable about the Melodic Minor scale. Where's a good place to start, Do you just build chords/modes same as a Maj scale concept? just using the notes of the Melodic Minor? or is it like Harmonic minor which you mostly use in certain situations such as secondary dominants etc..?
and can you explain more of this "So yes, the "vanilla" sound is to use Bb Lydian and E Lydian for each chord. You can also use the plain major scale but many people complain about their precious "avoid note". like why it's the go to?
Last edited by enloartworks at Jul 12, 2015,
#4
Yeah sure, glad I can help, jazzier theory can get pretty mis-informative online

-When you have multiple chords of the same quality that have no functional harmonic relationship, like your example (two major chords a tritone apart), this is often referred to as a constant structure progression. In a constant structure progression, each harmony stands alone, so you can think of each chord as the root of its own key. When you begin to venture into more complex harmonic relationships, sometimes you need to go chord to chord.

-Melodic Minor (MM) is used in contemporary music as a shading device, to inject new tensions and harmony into existing tonal major/minor progressions. You can build chords off of it just like a major scale, but the application is a bit different. You use the additional color from MM to modify (read:replace) certain chords in a progression for a new effect. You can't really make something "in" MM, every chord just replaces a regular chord from major/minor.

I wrote a large article on it here: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1660309&highlight=jet+talks+jazz

I'd start there. I go into things in more detail.

-When you have a major chord, obviously you want to use a major scale that goes with it. However, as you may know, scale degree 4 often clashes with the 3rd of the major chord, and isn't a not you want to land on without any care. So, some musicians refer to this as an "avoid note" and use a Lydian scale with a #4 instead.

What I mean by "vanilla" is the most "inside" consonant sound possible for that given harmony.

-The "vanilla" sound for a I chord is Ionian, but the "vanilla" sound for any non-I major7 chord is Lydian. That's important.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#5
great, your explanations make a lot of sense. I will deff read the article tomrrow when i'm more awake because i want to retain the information.

I understand that with major chords you want to use maj scales that go with it,

the part i got a bit confused was with this part
"The "vanilla" sound for a I chord is Ionian, but the "vanilla" sound for any non-I major chord is Lydian. That's important"

i get that the vanilla chord for the I chord is Ionian, but my question is why is the Lydian the vanilla sound for any non I chord? the other maj modes left are the Lydian & Mixolydian. Wouldn't the mixolydian scale be the vanilla chord for the V chord, not the Lydian; and that's also a maj chord that's not the I chord.
#6
^Right, that's a typo.

That should have read, "for any non-I maj7 chord. " Whoops.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#7
cool, I freaked out for a second and thought "I know nothing" lol

Thanks again for your help man, I really appreciate it.
So pretty much I can come up with non-diatonic chord progressions and view each chord as it's on scale??
is that what the whole "chord to scale" thing comes from?
I heard it from allan holdsworth.
#8
Quote by enloartworks
and view each chord as it's own scale??


I'm so glad that you came to that conclusion on your own it took me ages to realize. This phenomenon is known as CST, or chord scale theory. The most basic approach is that each diatonic chord equals a different mode of the major scale, which all contain the same notes. But more advanced CST gets really fun: I think I can recall about five completely different scales you can play on top of a dom7 chord.

Just remember that chords are scales. They just take a different form.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#9
Quote by Kevätuhri
I'm so glad that you came to that conclusion on your own it took me ages to realize. This phenomenon is known as CST, or chord scale theory. The most basic approach is that each diatonic chord equals a different mode of the major scale, which all contain the same notes. But more advanced CST gets really fun: I think I can recall about five completely different scales you can play on top of a dom7 chord.

Just remember that chords are scales. They just take a different form.


damn i feel like my brain opened haha, I can start to think differently now.
i'm assuming that's where all those odd jazz sounding scales come from?
its just more options/ colors in the palette.

the hard thing now is just figuring out how to solve the non diatonic chord progressions
#10
Quote by enloartworks
damn i feel like my brain opened haha, I can start to think differently now.
i'm assuming that's where all those odd jazz sounding scales come from?
its just more options/ colors in the palette.

the hard thing now is just figuring out how to solve the non diatonic chord progressions
The important point here is "non-diatonic".
It's useful to see chord progressions as falling into two types. (They can overlap or blur together sometimes, but think of it as two ends of a spectrum.)

On the one hand, you have chord "progressions" in "keys" - major or minor. Not always diatonic (especially in jazz), they will often feature modulations, chord substitutions, etc. - all kinds of chromaticism, but all designed to (a) harmonise a melody, and (b) provide some sense of forward momentum through the tune. Usually (but not always) beginning with the tonic and usually (almost always) ending on the tonic. This is known usually as "functional harmony", "tonality", or "the major-minor key system". It's the kind where we can analyze chords using roman numerals.

On the other hand, you have what we might loosely call "modal jazz". This is what you mean by "non-diatonic progressions", although the term "progression" is debatable, because - in its pure form - this kind of harmony doesn't "progress". It has no forward momentum, and each chord is a kind of "key" unto itself.
Rather than the "emotional roller-coaster" of functional harmony - pitching you forward through various dissonances to arrive finally at stability - you have one static mood giving way to another static mood. (Or occasionally just one mood for the whole tune.)

CST belongs with the latter kind of harmony - has evolved to describe and explain it, and indeed partly gave rise to it. It was a way of escaping what can be see as the straitjacket of functional harmony, where you're tied to a progression of chord tones, a kind of sequence of simultaneous melodies (lead on top, bass on bottom, guide tones between). What modal jazz did was enable much freer melodic invention based on one scale on one root note, with no chords to speak of; nowhere to have to get to. Sometimes, voice-leading will occur from chord to chord - but it doesn't have to.
It was a real revolution in jazz (although it borrowed a lot from classical impressionism, and had much in common with other world music such as raga or various folk styles).

The main controversy about CST is whether it can or should be applied to functional harmonic progressions - i.e. to the older kind of jazz standards. You do often hear CST principles mentioned in that context, but IMO it doesn't work. It offers nothing new or useful, and may actually distract from what matters - it takes your eye off the ball, or is like not seeing the forest for the trees (or some such analogy).

So - when you talk about "odd-sounding jazz scales" - a lot of those may actually belong to functional harmony. In particular the various scales applied to dom7 chords.
The point of dom7s (unless it's a mixolydian modal tune, or a blues ) is tension - their purpose ("function") is to resolve on to the following chord, one way or another. The various different scales offer different ways of doing that, by employing different sets of alterations. And normally that's on V7 chords (dom7s functioning as dominants).
V7 scales: altered, HW dim, wholetone (maybe even mixolydian!).
Non-V7s (non-functioning dom7s, ie, bII7, bVII7, IV7): lydian dominant.

All these scales (except mixolydian) share one quality: no avoid notes. That means any note of the scale can be used as a chord extension or alteration, without sounding off with any of the others. Their other quality - more to the point - is that they will provide various half-step moves on to the following chord.

Now, when we talk about "non-diatonic", "modal", "impressionist", etc, harmony, we're talking about chords (modes, chord-scales) as single sonorities. You can talk about modal "moods" if you like, but the idea is: this chord doesn't have to go anywhere. We can just enjoy the sound of it (and its scale) in its own right.
The flexibility of scale choice depends on how much a chart specifies a chord. So a major triad may be open to several scale choices. Something like "maj9#11" is only really open to one - lydian.

But in addition - as Jet Penguin points out above may be behind Wardingham's thinking - if you have a pair of chords which, on the face of it, have with no connection between them (no shared scale), you can, if you want, attempt to forge some connection, by choosing a scale for one chord which contains chord tones of the next chord, if possible. This kind of mimics diatonic chord sequences, in suggesting that the two chords do, in fact, have something in common. They're not just random choices.
But that's a choice. Keep the chords separate, or force links. Both strategies are valid. Probably, the quicker the chords change, the more you'll want to make some kind of cross-connection between them (that's a kind of melodic imperative). But the more time is spent on one chord, the more you can relax into that chord-scale as its own "key" - and you might even apply different scales on one chord, if there's time and if it works.
Of course, if you are writing your own tune, then anything goes! As long as you're using your ear, you can't go wrong. (If your ear and theory disagree, go with your ear. You might just be misunderstanding the theory. Your ear is not wrong, as long as you listen properly.)
Last edited by jongtr at Jul 13, 2015,
#11
Why exactly shouldn't CST work with functional harmony? The vanilla scale for diatonic chords is their respective mode of the base major scale, or in other words the major scale itself. Nothing weird there. And when we get to the more advanced concepts like melodic minor, harmonic major, diminished and whole tone scales, we'll notice that a lot of those concepts work exclusively on functional harmony. Certain modes of MM or Hmaj only work well on a V-I change for one example. CST is an integral part of non-modal jazz, if not even more prominent in functional harmony than in modal.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#12
^This. Just because I'm painting a tree doesn't mean I can't paint it purple.

The "controversy" jongtr's talking about is this:

Dm7-G7-C = D Dorian, G Mixolydian, C Ionian.

See, that's totally insane. It's just C major all the way through. There's no way anyone hears that as multiple modulations.

Scales are like colors during a solo, and the progression is the drawing itself. Even though that progression I listed is just plain old C major, that doesn't mean I can't use some other more coloristic choices. It's my version of the harmony, not what's on the page.

Yes, people can get too caught up in it (like that three rooted example) and miss the point, but to say that playing sounds and colors beyond the typical diatonic framework "offers nothing new or useful" is grossly counterproductive.

To answer OP:

The key center and the vanilla sound is what's important. You need the drawing first before you can go making all these crazy colors. You can't just slap in any scale whenever (well, you can, but) you want to take context into consideration.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#13
Very interesting conversation, in a way I feel what Jet Penguin is saying at the end is, you have to know the rules to be able to "break" them.

I have a question about what these symbols mean though lol

"V7 chords (dom7s functioning as dominants).
V7 scales: altered, HW dim, wholetone (maybe even mixolydian!).
Non-V7s (non-functioning dom7s, ie, bII7, bVII7, IV7): lydian dominant."

V7 is dominant 7
but what are bII7,bVII7,IV7?
and why would lydian dom work on those more than lets say mixolydian?

hope i'm not being annoying, just trying to learn more
#14
Quote by enloartworks
Very interesting conversation, in a way I feel what Jet Penguin is saying at the end is, you have to know the rules to be able to "break" them.

I have a question about what these symbols mean though lol

"V7 chords (dom7s functioning as dominants).
V7 scales: altered, HW dim, wholetone (maybe even mixolydian!).
Non-V7s (non-functioning dom7s, ie, bII7, bVII7, IV7): lydian dominant."

V7 is dominant 7
but what are bII7,bVII7,IV7?
and why would lydian dom work on those more than lets say mixolydian?

hope i'm not being annoying, just trying to learn more


You're talking about two things.

V is the dominant function chord. Most commonly, these resolve to tonic. V, V7, V7b5, V7#5, V9 are all different versions of dominant function chords.

Major minor 7th (major chord with a minor seventh) is known as a dominant 7th chord. V7 also fits into this category, but so do bII7, bVII7, and IV7. These are not interchangeable.

TL;DR - One speaks of function, one speaks of construction.
#15
Quote by Kevätuhri
I'm so glad that you came to that conclusion on your own it took me ages to realize. This phenomenon is known as CST, or chord scale theory. The most basic approach is that each diatonic chord equals a different mode of the major scale, which all contain the same notes. But more advanced CST gets really fun: I think I can recall about five completely different scales you can play on top of a dom7 chord.

Just remember that chords are scales. They just take a different form.

This is ONE WAY to look at it. I personally have always disliked Chord Scale Theory. I prefer to take a more "big picture" view. But whatever folks prefer.
#16
^Yep. It has to do with the expected behavior of a dominant, and its actual behavior on the page.

There's obviously WAY more to it than this but:

G7 to C = Cmajor

G7 to Cm =C harmonic minor

G7 to anything else = G Mixolydian. G Lydian Dominant would be the next step away from vanilla.

But that doesn't even matter cuz I can extend the G7 however the hell I want, those are just the tendencies of the chords in the vanilla-verse.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#17
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
This is ONE WAY to look at it. I personally have always disliked Chord Scale Theory. I prefer to take a more "big picture" view. But whatever folks prefer.



Sure. I'm not even saying that I prefer it, I think it's useful to know the different tools you can use. Most of the time though I'd advise people to just go with what they like to hear. The moment you start thinking "I can't use this scale 'cause theoretically it doesn't fit the chord even though I love the sound" you've probably gone too far.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#18
^Yep. Chord Scale Theory does not and never will replace any other kind of music theory.

It's supposed to augment what you already know in order to better inform decisions when improvising, by helping to create options with respect to harmonic expectation.

That's all it is. So many jazz musicians think it's God for some reason
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#19
what do these mean though?
bII7, bVII7, and IV7

Yeah, the way I see it is the more options you have the better, ultimately it's up to what you feel sounds best, it's just fun to be able to pick out what you're doing and why.
#20
Quote by Jet Penguin
^Yep. It has to do with the expected behavior of a dominant, and its actual behavior on the page.

There's obviously WAY more to it than this but:

G7 to C = Cmajor

G7 to Cm =C harmonic minor

G7 to anything else = G Mixolydian. G Lydian Dominant would be the next step away from vanilla.

But that doesn't even matter cuz I can extend the G7 however the hell I want, those are just the tendencies of the chords in the vanilla-verse.


when you say G7 to c = Cmaj wouldn't that be the same as G7 to G mixolydian?
#21
Those are just Roman numerals and Dominant 7th chords.

bII7 is Db7 in the key of C.

bVII is E7 in the key of F#.

IV7 is A7 in the key of E.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#22
Quote by Jet Penguin
^Yep. Chord Scale Theory does not and never will replace any other kind of music theory.

It's supposed to augment what you already know in order to better inform decisions when improvising, by helping to create options with respect to harmonic expectation.

That's all it is. So many jazz musicians think it's God for some reason
Seems to me, the older and/or more experienced they are, the less they think that. Some would agree with you (just one more way of looking at it, one more tool in the box), the more vociferous just think it's garbage anyhow.

I never thought much of CST, because (by the time I encountered it) I found it wasn't telling me anything I didn't know already - at least in terms of how to improvise.

I think the mistake some make is to believe it's a system or method of improvisation. It ain't, it's simply a way of listing the available notes (which IMO one ought to be able to determine by just looking at the music in the first place).
#23
Quote by Kevätuhri
Sure. I'm not even saying that I prefer it, I think it's useful to know the different tools you can use. Most of the time though I'd advise people to just go with what they like to hear. The moment you start thinking "I can't use this scale 'cause theoretically it doesn't fit the chord even though I love the sound" you've probably gone too far.

Indeed.
#24
Quote by Kevätuhri
Why exactly shouldn't CST work with functional harmony?
I can't improve on JP's reply, but I see it as a kind of category error.

Applying CST to functional harmony is like putting wheels on a horse. "Hey we invented this new motor car thing, it's cool, let's put wheels on everything!"
Quote by Kevätuhri

The vanilla scale for diatonic chords is their respective mode of the base major scale, or in other words the major scale itself. Nothing weird there.
Right. Except perhaps thinking "respective mode of the base major scale" instead of, er "major scale".
Quote by Kevätuhri
And when we get to the more advanced concepts like melodic minor, harmonic major, diminished and whole tone scales, we'll notice that a lot of those concepts work exclusively on functional harmony.
Indeed. I've fallen into the trap above of confusing modal theory with CST!...
Quote by Kevätuhri

Certain modes of MM or Hmaj only work well on a V-I change for one example. CST is an integral part of non-modal jazz, if not even more prominent in functional harmony than in modal.
But the point about those scales is that modes of them represent certain useful alterations, sets of chromatics.

Eg, the altered scale has nothing functional to do with melodic minor. It happens (with some enharmonic tweaking) to resemble a mode of melodic minor, but that's coincidence. The scale is formed by retaining the root-3rd-7th of the chord, and altering the 5th and 9th both ways - the purpose being to give maximum half-step moves on to the tonic. (It's no accident that the scale is the same on the tritone sub, the bII7.)
Someone then spots that - hey look! - it's the same pattern as 7th mode melodic minor. Useful memory aid (assuming you know all your melodic minor scales of course)! But that can be a distraction too. Personally I didn't get the altered scale at all, until I noticed all the half-step voice-leading. That made it usable, rather than just an appealing, chin-stroking intellectual abstraction.

When you see that, you can forget about the scale. (You don't often have enough time for a complete scale on a V7alt anyway.)

All the other "scale" options on a V7 chord are just different ways of cataloguing the useful alterations and extensions. I guess naming those sets of notes as scales of some kind can be handy, but it's a little beside the point. The voice-leading is the point, and if that isn't given (in the chord symbol, melody or harmony) then one can choose one's own set of alterations. They don't have to come from one scale.
(If the scale idea has one useful angle, it's the idea of forming superimposed arpeggios, which might be less obvious if one was just pulling together random chromatics.)

Anyway, you're quite right to highlight the distinction between that kind of "chord-scale theory" (sets of superimposable alterations within functional harmony, typically on V7 chords), and the "modal" kind, which refers mostly (if not entirely) to the so-called "church modes", the modes of the major scale. The latter kind has no useful application in functional harmony (while being the foundation to modal harmony).
Last edited by jongtr at Jul 13, 2015,
#25
Quote by jongtr

Right. Except perhaps thinking "respective mode of the base major scale" instead of, er "major scale".


But that's exactly what I said

Quote by jongtr

Indeed. I've fallen into the trap above of confusing modal theory with CST!...
But the point about those scales is that modes of them represent certain useful alterations, sets of chromatics.


But it's not modal theory

And the thing is, even an amateur jazz musician like me can and will apply CST to functional harmony. I just think that you're confusing a lot of modal ideas with tonal ideas. Your reply was very long and convoluted and seemed to have very little to do with what I had to say. I think that you're right for the most part, but you're either misunderstanding what we mean with CST or misunderstanding what kind of music is tonal if you think that the two concepts cannot be mixed.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#26
Quote by enloartworks
when you say G7 to c = Cmaj wouldn't that be the same as G7 to G mixolydian?

Well, G mixolydian is in the key of G, not C.
G mixolydian is "G major key with b7".
#27
Quote by jongtr
Well, G mixolydian is in the key of G, not C.
G mixolydian is "G major with b7".


Nope, G mixolydian is and will never be in a key, and if it would, it'd probably be in C major.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#28
^Yep. G mixolydian is not in the key of anything. It's G mixolydian.

The idea of things being modes of harmonic major or melodic minor is due to the overarching principle that those scalar systems are being used to colorize the harmony. So in that sense, it's incredibly useful because that's what's going on.

You ARE using a MM system to colorize the harmony. The altered scale does have thing to do with MM in that sense. The altered scale is the product of using a mode of melodic minor, as it was intended, to shade a dominant harmony.

What it isn't, however, is what you have correctly stated.

It like everything else in music, is not a methodology, only a categorization of what tools are available to you as a soloist.

OP: It's not G mixolydian because G mixolydian doesn't have a damn thing to do with C major.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#29
Quote by jongtr
Well, G mixolydian is in the key of G, not C.
G mixolydian is "G major key with b7".


G mixolydian is not a G major key with a Flat 7, it's a Gmaj chord with a flat 7 (dom 7 chord)
it's the 5th mode of C..
#30
No. G mixolydian is a scale that coincidentally has all the notes of C major. That's it.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#31
Quote by jongtr
Well, G mixolydian is in the key of G, not C.
G mixolydian is "G major key with b7".

Nope. Stop thinking you can put modes and keys together. You cannot. Yes, we often use keys as a reference point for modes, as such: "It's a major mode with a flat 7". But that's because it's easy to understand. Modes are different than keys.
#32
does anyone have a good example of using these dom chords ? as in like where they would lead to? i know the V chord goes to the 1 but what about these other dom chords? i'd just like an example to have a better grasp, progression wise.

bII7

bVII

IV7
#33
They're just dominant 7 chords. They want to resolve down a fifth, like all dominant 7 chords.


That doesn't mean you have to.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#34
Quote by Jet Penguin
No. G mixolydian is a scale that coincidentally has all the notes of C major. That's it.


to me it all depends on how you see it, because the notes from the key of C maj change value with you play them with G as your bass note, I can see how it's not from the key of C but I don't think it's just a "coincidence"
#35
Quote by enloartworks
to me it all depends on how you see it, because the notes from the key of C maj change value with you play them with G as your bass note, I can see how it's not from the key of C but I don't think it's just a "coincidence"

You need to study the differences between modes and keys, then...
#36
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
You need to study the differences between modes and keys, then...


sorry i don't know the "technical definition" but I know what modes are, and I know what a key is. I'm not saying that you oh i'm in the key of G mixolydian... no. I'm saying that The 5 chord of C maj will be a G mixolydian chord that's all
#37
But that's inaccurate. The V chord of C maj is G7. Mixolydian has literally nothing to do with it.
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#38
how does mixolydian have nothing to do with it?
what scale would you use over the 5 chord of c without stepping out of the key of C maj?
and which other scales could you use if you wanted to beside mixolydian? (lack of knowledge) lol
#39
Quote by enloartworks
how does mixolydian have nothing to do with it?
what scale would you use over the 5 chord of c without stepping out of the key of C maj?
and which other scales could you use if you wanted to beside mixolydian? (lack of knowledge) lol


C major. G mixo is literally the same as C major.
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#40
Yep. You're in the key of C major, so you play a C major scale. It's really that simple.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
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