Page 1 of 2
#1
Holy Crap! The TGP forum already has 156 pages of blather about the Helix and the silly thing hasn't even been officially released yet ("end of summer").

Essentially nobody has one yet! But there are opinions about what it will do and what it will sound like and how it compares to other modelers, yada yada.
#2
I want one. It's pretty.


That's always the best way to buy gear.

Is it pretty? Y/N

Y: Buy it.
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#4
Expectations are going to be very high for the price they're asking.

I dunno. I feel like if they got their modeling good enough to actually be an Axe competitor they'd be talking about it a lot more.
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#5
The biggest thing with the Pod was not being able to load external cab IRs. This allows it, so that should solve a lot of issues.
That alone won't justify the price difference though, but they have done a whole lot on the amp models (all new or revised models) so it looks pretty promising.
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#6
I await its arrival with "cautious optimism." My HD500 has served me well and has proven to be extremely versatile at that price point. Also, I've always thought Line 6 has done a great job of supporting the user community through regular updates and the Custom Tones library. I'll admit that the learning curve for it was frustrating at first but I think that goes for any modeller now a days.

Plus, I just ordered a DT25 a few weeks ago and am really curious how the Helix will sound and integrate with it, I was really impressed with how it seemed to breath some life into the HD series models.
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#7
I'm using a Two-Notes Torpedo C.A.B. with the Pods. This provides IR cabinet modeling equivalent to the Kempers, etc. and sort of "fills in the blanks" where the Pod loses ground to the more expensive modelers. But it's about $550, which more than doubles the new price of an HD500 and brings it much closer to the Helix. OTOH, the C.A.B. also offers tube power amp modeling, which also changes the game (I didn't buy it for that, but wouldn't be without it now). At the moment, an HD500X and the C.A.B. can give my Axe-FX Ultra a serious run.

I'm close enough to Line 6 (an hour through LA traffic). I'll betcha I can get them to show it to me.
#8
Dual DSP's, 4 effects loops, a ton of I/O and 3rd party IR capability. I'm in and I've pre-ordered.

I've read several posts from Summer NAMM which say that the modeling is incredible. It also took best in show, for what it's worth.
#9
Quote by Offworld92


I dunno. I feel like if they got their modeling good enough to actually be an Axe competitor they'd be talking about it a lot more.


Perhaps more telling is that the Axe folks are already trying very hard to downplay the Helix (despite not having one to work with ).

Line 6 has traditionally NOT talked up their products as they relate to the competition.
#11
Quote by diabolical
I've read enough about modeling cool aid and I think it is highly unlikely it will make me want to change my setup. Only piece of tech that seems to be going close to my ears is the Kemper.


If you're still viewing modeling as "KoolAid" and basing what you know on what you've read or played with for 15 minutes in a store, then you're unlikely to want to change anything in your setup. What ARE you using as your current setup?

The Kemper maybe "close to your ears" because it offers cabinet IRs in addition to amp and FX modeling. It's a good piece. As mentioned, I've added cabinet IRs and power amp modeling to my current Pod rig, and it makes a big difference. The Helix has advanced modeling and now offers cabinet IRs identical to those on the Kemper (in fact, an IR is an IR for the most part).
#12
L6 better have some really good amp models and such on the helix, but I still think the price will put off many buyers for the first year or so. I have always been a L6 supporter since the AX2 because they have always offered a good modeling product at a reasonable price, the Helix is not very reasonably priced IMO
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#13
Quote by diabolical
I've read enough about modeling cool aid and I think it is highly unlikely it will make me want to change my setup. Only piece of tech that seems to be going close to my ears is the Kemper.


As much as I'm a fan of the Kemper, I note that it's now about 3 years behind the technology curve so it's very likely that newer products like the Helix will surpass it.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#14
Quote by Arby911
As much as I'm a fan of the Kemper, I note that it's now about 3 years behind the technology curve so it's very likely that newer products like the Helix will surpass it.


Who knows? These things go so quickly out of date and there is the latest and greatest digital modeler out there for bouque $$$ that I've stoppped bothering. I stock up on tube amps
#15
i like my mostly analog wall of not that far from finishing it off a wah and replacing two pedals that were stolen. will i look at it yeah recommend it probably but i dont like taking 500 dollar plunges on one thing i rarely will get to use...
edit 1500 sweet baby jesus.... yeah ill just stick to playing caveman with my pedals im 300 bucks from finishing my board for the probably good, minus the odd fuzz i would want every now and again.
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Last edited by losing battle at Jul 14, 2015,
#16
Quote by losing battle
i like my mostly analog wall of not that far from finishing it off a wah and replacing two pedals that were stolen. will i look at it yeah recommend it probably but i dont like taking 500 dollar plunges on one thing i rarely will get to use...
edit 1500 sweet baby jesus.... yeah ill just stick to playing caveman with my pedals im 300 bucks from finishing my board for the probably good, minus the odd fuzz i would want every now and again.


haha. thats what i was thinking.
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#17
If the Helix is up to par, $1500 + ~$200-500 for a good poweramp & +~$1000 for a good cab is going to be about the same as any high end analog setup, except you get way more options and sounds.

I consider the Kemper able to completely replace tube amps in the studio. That's about the same price.
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#18
That's like 5 or 6 MTS modules ...... pass.


The picking dynamics is improving, going by the vid. They're getting closer, it seems.
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#19
Quote by Cathbard
That's like 5 or 6 MTS modules ...... pass.


The picking dynamics is improving, going by the vid. They're getting closer, it seems.


haha. was waiting for you to comment on that.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#21
Quote by Cathbard
That's like 5 or 6 MTS modules ...... pass.


The picking dynamics is improving, going by the vid. They're getting closer, it seems.


I think that one of the weaknesses of modelers, although it's often touted as a strength, is the massive variety of amps (and other crap) they model.

I don't need 57 different amps. I need, at most, 5 or 6. Let's say 10 to be exceptionally generous.

But I'd like them to be near-perfect, please.

I'm a fan of choices, but I'd take fewer choices and higher quality.

Also, here's a longer vid, with a little bit of dynamics demo starting at about the 7 minute mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=458&v=yAGDCCdWjoQ
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Last edited by Arby911 at Jul 15, 2015,
#22
Chriiiiiiiiiiiiiist I can't keep up with all those features. This thing is insane. It's too overwhelming for me. Back when I first started, I loved using Digitech RP pedals, but even the RP355 was too much for me to dig into (mostly due to a lack of understanding). The Helix makes those seem like a cakewalk.

I can't see myself ever needing something like this. Pretty neat technology though!
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#23
Quote by diabolical
Who knows? These things go so quickly out of date and there is the latest and greatest digital modeler out there for bouque $$$ that I've stoppped bothering. I stock up on tube amps


I did that. I have about 15 tube amps and more cabinets than that. Problem is, you've gotta put them somewhere, and they're bulky and heavy. So now I have a storage unit. The good news is that I can toss 15 modelers on a shelf somewhere and use just one set of speakers and power amp.
#24
Quote by losing battle
i like my mostly analog wall of not that far from finishing it off a wah and replacing two pedals that were stolen. will i look at it yeah recommend it probably but i dont like taking 500 dollar plunges on one thing i rarely will get to use...
edit 1500 sweet baby jesus.... yeah ill just stick to playing caveman with my pedals im 300 bucks from finishing my board for the probably good, minus the odd fuzz i would want every now and again.


We sat around and figured up the new prices of the pedals (and power supplies and cabling) that we had in our pedalboards once. A half-dozen $200 pedals (see Wampler's prices) and you're coming pretty close to what the Helix will run you.
#25
Quote by Arby911
I think that one of the weaknesses of modelers, although it's often touted as a strength, is the massive variety of amps (and other crap) they model.

I don't need 57 different amps. I need, at most, 5 or 6. Let's say 10 to be exceptionally generous.


But I'd like them to be near-perfect, please.

I'm a fan of choices, but I'd take fewer choices and higher quality.

Also, here's a longer vid, with a little bit of dynamics demo starting at about the 7 minute mark


yes, yes, and yes. while it is cool to be able to have that many models, how many do you need/use? i think i have about 15 tube amps too. from a 1974x clone, to a JTM45 clone, to oranges, mesas, splawns and a fryette, i don't need much more. i can get 85% if not more of whatever i want out of what i have without a modeling amp. MFX processors do take up less space, and may be more practical to gig with, but i don't need it.

as i think i said earlier or on another thread, $1500 is a lot to have under your foot. that a lot to step on. yes, many peoples' pedalboards are probably comparable in price, but its not if one were to die they all would.

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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#26
If I spill a beer on my GT-100, I lose $500, not $1500. $1500 is just way too much for a floor unit.
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#27
Quote by Cathbard
If I spill a beer on my GT-100, I lose $500, not $1500. $1500 is just way too much for a floor unit.


+1. AXE and Kemper are better that way. worst case scenario you are out a footswitch (or a GT-100 in cath's case).

i really think that the helix would be conceptually better to me as a rack unit and footswitch.

i won't buy one, so i guess it really doesn't matter.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#29
Quote by Cathbard
If I spill a beer on my GT-100, I lose $500, not $1500. $1500 is just way too much for a floor unit.


Presumably it's sealed against beer abuse...most decent floor units are, at least to some degree.
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Last edited by Arby911 at Jul 16, 2015,
#30
Quote by Arby911
Presumably it's sealed against beer abuse...most decent floor units are, at least to some degree.


What isn't sealed are the connectors, including those for the guitar and out to the amp, etc. and the AC connector (*FzZzSsT!*). And if you have a wireless unit, it's also down there available to the elements.

OTOH, a lot of us spend for pedalboards that have a lot MORE money invested (add up your pedals sometime) and that are even less protected from beer, blood, puke, etc.
#31
Quote by trashedlostfdup
yes, yes, and yes. while it is cool to be able to have that many models, how many do you need/use?


That was never the issue. You pick the ones you need when you need them.
The real trick is that if you decide you want to try something else, you don't have to run out and buy that amp and/or haul it around if you decide you need it.

And nobody pays cartage these days.
#32
Quote by dspellman
We sat around and figured up the new prices of the pedals (and power supplies and cabling) that we had in our pedalboards once. A half-dozen $200 pedals (see Wampler's prices) and you're coming pretty close to what the Helix will run you.

lets see current total price paid for my current board.
vintage turbo rat 40
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cool cat fuzz 40 (thats right i paid the same amount for a cheap clone as my vintage turbo rat)
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grand total..... drumroll please 600 dollars
there a few oddities i want to get like the ehx super ego, voodoo lab wahzoo, earthquaker sea machine, ohno tck tck boom, a few odd devi ever pedals but baring the first three everything i want is readily available 100 bucks and under. like i been adding pedals one or two a year for a while. there have been a few i sold because i was ****ed and needed some extra cash to get me through the week i traded one for a gameboy ds which my cat broke lol. i think in my 8 years of buying pedals i havent even reached 1500 dollars in total purchases.
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Last edited by losing battle at Jul 16, 2015,
#33
Quote by dspellman
What isn't sealed are the connectors, including those for the guitar and out to the amp, etc. and the AC connector (*FzZzSsT!*). And if you have a wireless unit, it's also down there available to the elements.

OTOH, a lot of us spend for pedalboards that have a lot MORE money invested (add up your pedals sometime) and that are even less protected from beer, blood, puke, etc.


Yah, I have to say that if I were ever to get to design something like this, all I/O's would be sealed, so even if they themselves could get crap spilled/poured/pissed in them, it couldn't get to anything else. Turn the connector side down, spray it with contact cleaner, let it dry and carry on. As an added precaution, a simple O-ring system could keep the ones in use from being open, even the AC connector, at least to anything short of a fire hose.
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#34
I'm definitely intrigued. I thought the HD series was really good. Not quite good enough to replace my JCA50, but definitely giggable.

There's something to be said about simplicity. I usually just play with with a tuner, an OD, and the two channels on my Jet City. That's enough versatility for the majority of what I play. If I need the music to be any lighter, I just use my acoustic

However, it's really not that expensive, especially for what you get. If I were to buy one premium tube amp new I would spend (at least) that much, and I wouldn't have a cab yet or anything. If anything, investing in something like that for studio in a year or two when it's 999 is a value purchase.

I get the criticism about it's durability as a live unit. I know that my pedals have seen their fair share of beer. I think this is more of of a practice and recording unit however. I guess it has a rack unit + floor board too but that's more of a niche market IMO.
Gear:

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Agile AL-3100

Jet City JCA50H
Randall 2x12 wV30s
#35
Quote by losing battle
lets see current total price paid for my current board.

grand total..... drumroll please 600 dollars
i think in my 8 years of buying pedals i havent even reached 1500 dollars in total purchases.


You have really managed to keep costs down. And I applaud you for that.
I have two and a half of those largish flap-top Costco bins filled with FX pedals, packed neatly cheek by jowl. I don't even want to speculate on the total. I've been told that a number of them have been around so long that they're now "vintage" and worth more than I paid. But my favorite two places to buy pedals these days are wamplerpedals.com and axeandyoushallreceive.com. I'd say that the average price-per-each for their pedals (admittedly more toward the top of the line than the bottom) is around $200. And you're running 10 pedals. So if *I* were covering all the bases you are and if I were buying new, I'd have spent $2K already.

But that's just FX.

I've got about 15 tube amps (I'm not going to count other kinds for now), including some seriously heavy iron. I've got some rack-mount tube preamps as well, and a couple of tube power amps. I've just found an Egnater M4 tube preamp (four interchangeable "personality" modules ala the Randalls that Cathbutt loves), and it may or may not come home with me (no hurry on that one, but it *was* on my short list). Each has something different to offer, but I've narrowed it down to about half a dozen that get to live in the den (the rest live in a storage unit). My monthly bill for storage is around $241. Retubing that mess once every couple of years is another bill, and insurance on them can be eye-opening, in part because it would be very difficult to replace several of them.

And then there are cabinets. There are at least four 4x12s, a 2x15 (plus tweeter) and a potload of 1x12s, 2x12s, 4x10s, 1x15s, etc., all of which go with the various tube amps.

The fact that I can get by with a modeler feeding directly into a board (or a modeler feeding a powered speaker or recording monitors or just a set of headphones) pretty much subs for most of that.

It was pretty much the same thing when I stopped traveling with a B3, a pair of Leslies and a piano and switched to an electronic keyboard. I'm not using all of the eleventy-thousand sounds and bits and pieces on it (not even a fraction of them, in fact), but it's the fact that I've reduced my footprint and expense while dramatically increasing the possibilities that keeps me from going back to the B3 and Leslies and piano.
Last edited by dspellman at Jul 16, 2015,
#36
Quote by dspellman
You have really managed to keep costs down. And I applaud you for that.
I have two and a half of those largish flap-top Costco bins filled with FX pedals, packed neatly cheek by jowl. I don't even want to speculate on the total. I've been told that a number of them have been around so long that they're now "vintage" and worth more than I paid. But my favorite two places to buy pedals these days are wamplerpedals.com and axeandyoushallreceive.com. I'd say that the average price-per-each for their pedals (admittedly more toward the top of the line than the bottom) is around $200. And you're running 10 pedals. So if *I* were covering all the bases you are and if I were buying new, I'd have spent $2K already.

But that's just FX.

I've got about 15 tube amps (I'm not going to count other kinds for now), including some seriously heavy iron. I've got some rack-mount tube preamps as well, and a couple of tube power amps. I've just found an Egnater M4 tube preamp (four interchangeable "personality" modules ala the Randalls that Cathbutt loves), and it may or may not come home with me (no hurry on that one, but it *was* on my short list). Each has something different to offer, but I've narrowed it down to about half a dozen that get to live in the den (the rest live in a storage unit). My monthly bill for storage is around $241. Retubing that mess once every couple of years is another bill, and insurance on them can be eye-opening, in part because it would be very difficult to replace several of them.

And then there are cabinets. There are at least four 4x12s, a 2x15 (plus tweeter) and a potload of 1x12s, 2x12s, 4x10s, 1x15s, etc., all of which go with the various tube amps.

The fact that I can get by with a modeler feeding directly into a board (or a modeler feeding a powered speaker or recording monitors or just a set of headphones) pretty much subs for most of that.

It was pretty much the same thing when I stopped traveling with a B3, a pair of Leslies and a piano and switched to an electronic keyboard. I'm not using all of the eleventy-thousand sounds and bits and pieces on it (not even a fraction of them, in fact), but it's the fact that I've reduced my footprint and expense while dramatically increasing the possibilities that keeps me from going back to the B3 and Leslies and piano.


... Why don't you sell some of that stuff, since you've moved on? You haven't recommended a tube amp in any of your posts that I've seen.
Gear:

Fender Strat
PRS SE Custom 24
Agile AL-3100

Jet City JCA50H
Randall 2x12 wV30s
#37
Quote by dspellman
You have really managed to keep costs down. And I applaud you for that.
I have two and a half of those largish flap-top Costco bins filled with FX pedals, packed neatly cheek by jowl. I don't even want to speculate on the total. I've been told that a number of them have been around so long that they're now "vintage" and worth more than I paid. But my favorite two places to buy pedals these days are wamplerpedals.com and axeandyoushallreceive.com. I'd say that the average price-per-each for their pedals (admittedly more toward the top of the line than the bottom) is around $200. And you're running 10 pedals. So if *I* were covering all the bases you are and if I were buying new, I'd have spent $2K already.

But that's just FX.

I've got about 15 tube amps (I'm not going to count other kinds for now), including some seriously heavy iron. I've got some rack-mount tube preamps as well, and a couple of tube power amps. I've just found an Egnater M4 tube preamp (four interchangeable "personality" modules ala the Randalls that Cathbutt loves), and it may or may not come home with me (no hurry on that one, but it *was* on my short list). Each has something different to offer, but I've narrowed it down to about half a dozen that get to live in the den (the rest live in a storage unit). My monthly bill for storage is around $241. Retubing that mess once every couple of years is another bill, and insurance on them can be eye-opening, in part because it would be very difficult to replace several of them.

And then there are cabinets. There are at least four 4x12s, a 2x15 (plus tweeter) and a potload of 1x12s, 2x12s, 4x10s, 1x15s, etc., all of which go with the various tube amps.

The fact that I can get by with a modeler feeding directly into a board (or a modeler feeding a powered speaker or recording monitors or just a set of headphones) pretty much subs for most of that.

It was pretty much the same thing when I stopped traveling with a B3, a pair of Leslies and a piano and switched to an electronic keyboard. I'm not using all of the eleventy-thousand sounds and bits and pieces on it (not even a fraction of them, in fact), but it's the fact that I've reduced my footprint and expense while dramatically increasing the possibilities that keeps me from going back to the B3 and Leslies and piano.


No need to explain yourself brah- as usual, there are just a bunch of people being snobish and battling the evolution of digital technology. Is the line 6 helix going to be perfect? Doubtfully- id like to think they implemeneted some design to protect it from moisture damage, but who knows. If it isnt, line 6 will learn pretty quickly. Is it overpriced? That remains to be seen; I think its too early and not enough info to say right now in my opinion. But regardless of these uncerainties, guitarists everywhere should be rooting this thing on and be optimistic as ever. The technology keeps getting better and the pricing only gets more affordable as time goes on. Eventually, the only thing you will be missing out on is the back ache from lugging around a 60 lb amp (but hey- maybe they will be able to model that too).

-signed,
Guy who loves tube amps but also loves technology
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#38
nah its mostly because im broke/the pedals i usually want are relitively cheap. that and i hunt on used gear websites check to see if anything is on clearance for a stupid price. ghere is rarely anything i want over 200 anyway.
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I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#39
Quote by losing battle
nah its mostly because im broke/the pedals i usually want are relitively cheap. that and i hunt on used gear websites check to see if anything is on clearance for a stupid price. ghere is rarely anything i want over 200 anyway.


I meant in general- every forum (across multiple websites) there are many people being very negative about the whole thing. Trust me; im not trying to downplay the cost. 1500 bones is a lot for most people, including myself. But for a moderately decent rig alone you can easily spend that, let alone if you include cables, patch cables, power supplies, pedals ect. I know im not the first person to make that point, but I do think its a very important one to make. The helix will be an interface, multifx, preamp, and amp modeller all rolled into one. If the sound quality is there, its certainly worth the price tag. For people who are planning on bringing it on the road and giving it a beating, you should just get an extended warranty and drink all the beer you want (if youre planning on putting gear through constant live play abuse, you should have some contingency like that in place anyway).
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#40
I haven't heard the demo yet but I like my pedluls... looks spiffy though. I don't like it but i dont hate it Im pretty indifferent, would i want one for studio use hell ****ing yeah but i am not that much into recording
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