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#1
Hey! I just want to know what is the right expression for the cutaway on the side of the body where we put our right (picking) hand? My guitar is missing that and I wan't to know if there is any solution to that?

Well this is what I ve ment:
#2
I think there is no big deal
As far as I know Les Paul model doesn't have it at all
Or V shaped guitars
#3
Falls into the general catagorey of comfort contours. Precise name may depend on manufacturer.

If you want one, you'd best be prepared to get the tools out, and refinish afterwards. Or buy a new guitar.

^But yea, it's really not a necessity. Standard teles don't have them, either.
#4
Quote by slapsymcdougal
it's really not a necessity.


Well it bothers me because my hand hurts after a while of playing in a standed position. If I play in a seated position everything is fine. It would reall be awkward to go and saw my 1600€ guitar wouldnt it be?

I thought there is any global terminology to name this "cutaway"...
#5
Its generally called the arm contour and your choice is either play seated, cut a new contour and wreck your 1600 euro guitar or buy a different guitar.
#6
having the contour there or not isn't an issue in my opinion. I don't get sore or anything.
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No.


Well, technically it could be done, but only in the same way that you could change a cat into a hamburger. It's an unpleasant process, and nobody is happy with the result.
#7
Quote by 71GA
Well it bothers me because my hand hurts after a while of playing in a standed position. If I play in a seated position everything is fine. It would reall be awkward to go and saw my 1600€ guitar wouldnt it be?

I thought there is any global terminology to name this "cutaway"...

Sounds like poor posture. Or maybe you're a mutant, idk.
#8
Forearm Contour.

The dip in the middle top of the back is often referred to as a tummy cut or a rib contour. Leo Fender built them into the Stratocaster when people complained about the cutting board slab of a body on the telecaster (and the Les Paul, which wasn't his fault). On a guitar without a forearm contour, you can easily develop a bit of a dent in your forearm.

The reason it doesn't bother you when you're seated is because you're hunched over when you're playing and your shoulder is more over the top of the guitar.

Otherwise, most guitars *don't* have them.
#9
Yet another reason why Strats pwnz LPs
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#10
Les Paul's actually do have slight contouring on the maple capped models.

It's the standard tele shape that is all sorts of bad.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#11
The Les Paul contouring is even worse because it just teases you, like you COULD be much more comfortable but bah **** it we're not gonna do that. For a lot of people, myself included, comfort is the make or break of buying a guitar. It's the major reason i won't ever have a Les Paul, Tele, certain super strats, etc. It just totally ruins my posture and becomes too uncomfortable after a small amount of time.
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#12
TBH, with my LPs, I tend to just push the neck forward a bit. Changes the position of the right hand relative to the body, and no discomfort issue.
#13
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Sounds like poor posture. Or maybe you're a mutant, idk.

My favourite post of the week.

I'm not sure but it sounds like you may be holding the guitar in a slightly weird way - neither of my guitars has this and they're perfectly comfortable to play standing (both superstrats). I was always under the impression that this is made more for seated playing anyway, as when standing the arm is usually more in parallel with the guitar body...
#14
is a forearm contour

most archtop guitars feel fine to me because the bridge is actually raised over the edge, but to me it isn't a big deal at all, neither is going from 24.5 to 25.5 scale.

I think a lot of people that say it is a big issue, are just pussies that like to bitch
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#15
^^ Or more likely some people are much more perceptive to very slight changes and alterations that their muscle memories are highly attuned to picking up. You might not be able to tell the difference between 24.5 and 25.5 or different radii or even if you do, you might not think they're a big deal. But those small things can mean the difference between playable and comfortable, or unplayable and won't touch ever again.
Quote by yellowfrizbee
What does a girl have to do to get it in the butt thats all I ever wanted from you. Why, Ace? Why? I clean my asshole every night hoping and wishing and it never happens.
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#16
Quote by Acϵ♠
^^ Or more likely some people are much more perceptive to very slight changes and alterations that their muscle memories are highly attuned to picking up. You might not be able to tell the difference between 24.5 and 25.5 or different radii or even if you do, you might not think they're a big deal. But those small things can mean the difference between playable and comfortable, or unplayable and won't touch ever again.

So, basically, some people can't cope with change?
#17
I would first of all try messing around with different strap lengths and see if you can't find one you prefer. If that fails, and it's a problem for you, then all you can do really, is get a new guitar.
#18
Quote by slapsymcdougal
TBH, with my LPs, I tend to just push the neck forward a bit. Changes the position of the right hand relative to the body, and no discomfort issue.


LPs are interesting. What contouring there is on the top of an LP body has nothing to do with comfort or any attempt at it; it's just mimicking the general shape of an archtop hollowbody guitar like the Super 400 in a smaller form.

The reason you tend to push the neck forward a bit is that the neck of an LP tilts back from the body several degrees (4-5, depending):



This, plus the headstock tiltback angle, is one of the main reasons you see headstock breaks occurring inside a case. Often if you lay an LP down, it will teeter on the top of the headstock and the very bottom of the back of the guitar. Recipe for disaster.

But back to basics: it pushes your fretting hand BACK that far, and you compensate by pushing it forward. A strat has a much straighter angle coming off the body, so you don't.

Another thing that happens with guitars is that they will push your fretting hand further from your centerline or back toward it, even with the same scale, depending on where the front guitar strap knob is in relation to the fretboard. An SG will push your hand (on, say, the first fret) quite far to the left, while a strat will push it further to the right, and upper frets will require a different hand/arm angle because you'll be reaching across your body to get to them. Most guitar players never realize they're being pushed into one position or the other and most never realize why playing in a certain region of the fretboard is far more comfortable on some guitars than on others. The same can be said of the location of the lower strap button in relation to the bridge.
#20
Quote by slapsymcdougal
So, basically, some people can't cope with change?


No, essentially it means that some folks find some guitars comfortable to play and others not so much.

There's also this; if you're used to lifting your fretting hand and having your hand fall naturally to one area on the fretboard, you develop neural pathways ("muscle memory"), and individual notes fall quickly to hand because of it. Hand them a guitar that puts the same frets right or left of where those pathways would normally expect them to be and then change the scale on them, and you have a guitar that requires much more concentration to play until other neural pathways are formed.
#21
Quote by dspellman
No, essentially it means that some folks find some guitars comfortable to play and others not so much.

There's also this; if you're used to lifting your fretting hand and having your hand fall naturally to one area on the fretboard, you develop neural pathways ("muscle memory"), and individual notes fall quickly to hand because of it. Hand them a guitar that puts the same frets right or left of where those pathways would normally expect them to be and then change the scale on them, and you have a guitar that requires much more concentration to play until other neural pathways are formed.

So, what you're saying is that people who are accustomed to that chage can cope with it, and those who are not have difficulty/can't cope with change.
#22
Quote by slapsymcdougal
So, what you're saying is that people who are accustomed to that chage can cope with it, and those who are not have difficulty/can't cope with change.


Your statement simply says, "Those who can handle the change can handle the change and those who can't handle the change can't handle the change." If there's a point to be made, you might want to change the statement.

I got to a point with keyboards where I was extremely comfortable with my B3's keyboard (and with playing the pedals as well) and could concentrate on the music. When I switched that out to a weighted-style keyboard I could still play, but a part of me had to deal with the feel, and it took me a while to get back to being un-conscious of it.

People who constantly switch guitars with different scales and placements can still play, but sometimes without quite the same unconscious dexterity. After all, if you're used to a 24.75" scale and sliding your hand a specific distance to hit a note with speed, sliding that same distance on a 27" scale instrument is going to land you on a different note. Thus, you need to be conscious not only to the music but to the scale of the instrument as well.
#23
Quote by dspellman
Your statement simply says, "Those who can handle the change can handle the change and those who can't handle the change can't handle the change." If there's a point to be made, you might want to change the statement.

I got to a point with keyboards where I was extremely comfortable with my B3's keyboard (and with playing the pedals as well) and could concentrate on the music. When I switched that out to a weighted-style keyboard I could still play, but a part of me had to deal with the feel, and it took me a while to get back to being un-conscious of it.

People who constantly switch guitars with different scales and placements can still play, but sometimes without quite the same unconscious dexterity. After all, if you're used to a 24.75" scale and sliding your hand a specific distance to hit a note with speed, sliding that same distance on a 27" scale instrument is going to land you on a different note. Thus, you need to be conscious not only to the music but to the scale of the instrument as well.

That was my point from the start. I elaborated to explain that those who could handle the change had learned to do so; and those who could not, had not learned(yet).
#24
Quote by fingrpikingood
I would first of all try messing around with different strap lengths and see if you can't find one you prefer. If that fails, and it's a problem for you, then all you can do really, is get a new guitar.


Well I have a dilemma. While standing, I can only play with my left hand if strap is quite short, but this is when I feel some pain in my right arm after a while (because There is no arm contour). But pick angle is perfect to me this way... If I lengthen my strap I feel discomfort on multiple levels:
  • wrist on my right arm hurts because it has to bend so much
  • my pick is angled to much relative to the strings
  • I always have to bend my back because of my right arm wrist problems and my posture is not healthy


So the only way is to buy a guitar with an arm contour or maybee I will first try to wear something on my forearm. Like a gadget tenis players use to wipe off their sweat. I hate this, because my guitar really is beautiful and I don't want to get rid of it. It is an ESP Horizon NT2 (sunburst)... But comfort has to be over visuals if I want to shred well...

One more thing. I set my strap so that my posture is almost the same no matter if I am sitting or standing. I got this advice from Rick Graham... Great dude...

Here is a picture which shows, how unhealthy the posture of the right hand is withouth the arm contour... Just look at the wrist and imagine how much tension there is in the wrist if you want to pick...

Last edited by 71GA at Jul 14, 2015,
#25
Yeah that whole position doesn't look comfortable. Actually reading this thread made me realize why some of the pros use wristbands. So give that a try. Personally, I would drop that guitar about 10 inches, unless you're playing some progressive math metal or something. I would try anchoring some fingers just to get the wrist in a better position. And I wouldn't discount getting another guitar. Playing guitar shouldn't be torture.
#26
Quote by 71GA


One more thing. I set my strap so that my posture is almost the same no matter if I am sitting or standing.



Ya, I was thinking something along those lines. If you hike it up, relative to your elbow, your arm comes in from the back of the guitar a bit more as well. The strap can change a lot. Your hand doesn't look to be in the best position there, but I definitely have my hand looking that way sometimes also.

It's tough sometimes with things like this, because sometimes what feels weird or odd, is worth practicing to make it comfortable. Sometimes you might want to change how you hold your pick, or where you strum, or the strap length and stuff like that, but sometimes those things would not be a good idea. So, at the end of the day, it really comes down to you.

Idk how skilled you are, but that makes a difference as well, imo. If you are very skilled, then I think you have to change the guitar. If you are still learning, and not super speed shredder yet, then maybe it's some technique you need to be working on.

That's why, I recommend that people don't buy a nice guitar until they get to a certain level. But, it's always hard to foresee the future, because you're always learning. I've been burned by that before myself.

But at the end of the day a guitar is a tool. A tool for sound, so whast matters most, is that you can work it how you want, and play the music you want, then what matters second, is the tone it has, although to some degree, I'll say that's up there with #1, because some styles need some certain sounding class of guitar. Like you wouldn't want to jazz with a guitar designed for metal and vice versa really. But as far as quality in the genre goes, I'd put it second. Then, the looks of the guitar come in.

So, if I was you, no matter how much I liked that guitar, if the comfort wasn't there, I'd get a new one. If I really liked it, I might try to keep it, and just buy another guitar, in case I figure some shit out in the future and it ends up working better for me, or even if I'm really sentimentally attached for nostalgic reasons.

Like, I will never sell my first acoustic.
#27
Quote by slapsymcdougal
That was my point from the start. I elaborated to explain that those who could handle the change had learned to do so; and those who could not, had not learned(yet).


...do you ever wonder why guitarists often use 1 type of guitar (or very similar guitars) or why well established musicians have signature models. Or why hockey players use 1 type of stick, or why artists use certain brush sets, or why drummers set up their kits a certain way. You're trying to force a point, lol, and not a good one either. There's actually zero reason to criticize familiarity with your equipment and not wanting to change that familiarity since your sound, your feel, your style all stem from that. If a guitarist is at their best as an artist and musician on one set of guitar specs, why should he have to answer to folks like you who throw out a vague line about coping with change.
Quote by yellowfrizbee
What does a girl have to do to get it in the butt thats all I ever wanted from you. Why, Ace? Why? I clean my asshole every night hoping and wishing and it never happens.
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#28
Quote by Acϵ♠
...do you ever wonder why guitarists often use 1 type of guitar (or very similar guitars) or why well established musicians have signature models. Or why hockey players use 1 type of stick, or why artists use certain brush sets, or why drummers set up their kits a certain way. You're trying to force a point, lol, and not a good one either. There's actually zero reason to criticize familiarity with your equipment and not wanting to change that familiarity since your sound, your feel, your style all stem from that. If a guitarist is at their best as an artist and musician on one set of guitar specs, why should he have to answer to folks like you who throw out a vague line about coping with change.

But familiarity is not always good. Monet was decent until his eyes started to fail, and his style changed dramatically, and now he's a goddamn legend.

People need to move out of their comfort zone from time to time.
#29
I have guitars with and without them, I prefer them for sure on a strat shape but I can deal with not having it, it is not really an issue on V shapes.
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#30
Quote by slapsymcdougal
But familiarity is not always good. Monet was decent until his eyes started to fail, and his style changed dramatically, and now he's a goddamn legend.

People need to move out of their comfort zone from time to time.


Ya, tommy emmanuel, and jon gomm, and joe pass, and Oscar peterson, and, jimi hendrix, and idk, a lot of the greatest musicians that have ever lived, should really read this post, because they need to get out of their comfort zones. Otherwise, they may never become successful or very good at their craft.
#31
Quote by fingrpikingood
Ya, tommy emmanuel, and jon gomm, and joe pass, and Oscar peterson, and, jimi hendrix, and idk, a lot of the greatest musicians that have ever lived, should really read this post, because they need to get out of their comfort zones. Otherwise, they may never become successful or very good at their craft.

Yes, because none of them were ever pushed to improve or learn anything new. Or died too young for the world to know if they were more than a one trick pony.
#32
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Yes, because none of them were ever pushed to improve or learn anything new. Or died too young for the world to know if they were more than a one trick pony.


LOL Ya, right. Well I'm glad you're here, and have so much wisdom, because I'll get to listen to your music and learn what a real musician can do, one that learned new things and knows more than one trick.

Idk how you can say stuff like that. Maybe you don't see how ridiculous it is, or you do but you think others won't, idk. All of those guys quite literally took the WORLD of guitar, to new levels. Forget learning new stuff, they CREATED new stuff that other people often struggle to learn. Jimi Hendrix brought guitar to a new level, although it's true, he died young, the only one in that list that did, so he didn't go as far as he could have, and so it is a bit easier to copy him, but still.

I just don't understand how someone can say such a thing, completely missing the greatness of those guitarists, and thinking they know better. Better than the human beings that managed to be the best, in the world, at guitar. But you're on the internet, so you must be right.
Last edited by fingrpikingood at Jul 15, 2015,
#33
Quote by fingrpikingood
LOL Ya, right. Well I'm glad you're here, and have so much wisdom, because I'll get to listen to your music and learn what a real musician can do, one that learned new things and knows more than one trick.

Idk how you can say stuff like that. Maybe you don't see how ridiculous it is, or you do but you think others won't, idk. All of those guys quite literally took the WORLD of guitar, to new levels. Forget learning new stuff, they CREATED new stuff that other people often struggle to learn. Jimi Hendrix brought guitar to a new level, although it's true, he died young, the only one in that list that did, so he didn't go as far as he could have, and so it is a bit easier to copy him, but still.

I just don't understand how someone can say such a thing, completely missing the greatness of those guitarists, and thinking they know better. Better than the human beings that managed to be the best, in the world, at guitar. But you're on the internet, so you must be right.
And do you think that creation was easy? You think they were in their comfort zone when they did those things?

Have you ever met people?
#34
Quote by slapsymcdougal
But familiarity is not always good. Monet was decent until his eyes started to fail, and his style changed dramatically, and now he's a goddamn legend.

People need to move out of their comfort zone from time to time.


Yaa sure bud go tell Petrucci to use a Les Paul for a whole show, or Alex Ovechkin to use a flat blade stick, or tell Tim Wakeman to throw a fastball. Your sentiment of stepping out of your comfort zone is entirely useless in this context, lol. Why the **** should I force uncomfortable playing on an unfamiliar instrument? That's not fun lol i just want to put the thing down, it's just a hobby. But a good feeling, familiar guitar makes me want to play more.

Why don't you put staples in the back of your guitar neck? Step out of your comfort zone, give yourself a real challenge?
Quote by yellowfrizbee
What does a girl have to do to get it in the butt thats all I ever wanted from you. Why, Ace? Why? I clean my asshole every night hoping and wishing and it never happens.
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#35
Quote by slapsymcdougal
And do you think that creation was easy? You think they were in their comfort zone when they did those things?

Have you ever met people?


What we are discussing is using different instruments. Obviously to break new ground, you have to do new things, which you are not yet comfortable with, and you have to practice to get comfortable. Everybody knows that's the case for everyone, and nobody's disputing that fact.

What you said, was that people need to switch up their instruments, because people need to get out of their comfort zone. You're moving goal posts now. We are not talking about whether they have always been in their comfort zone or not. We are talking about whether or not they "need to change up their instruments" right? Those are the goal posts.

I don't really care to get into an endless circular argument with you. I'm just saying.

"People really need to do x." Is just an ugly thing to say, ESPECIALLY when some of the greatest musicians in the world, don't even do that.

I'm just saying.
Last edited by fingrpikingood at Jul 15, 2015,
#36
@slapsymcdougal and @fingrpikingood please stop the nonsense. In the older days artists didn't had oportunity to pick between so many guitar shapes and now we have. So in order to become the best we can, we have to choose the model which suits us best or find any other solution (wrist band)... otherwise we can never compete with top shreders out there. What do you think they did? They optimised their guitars and even cooperated with top companies to create their own model. This is the way to optimise everything... So there are different times now and please stop your bullshit.

Quote by dthmtl3
Personally, I would drop that guitar about 10 inches, unless you're playing some progressive math metal or something.

In fact I do play progressive hard & heavy stuff and I need to shred sometimes so this is not an option for me. The picture that I posted was in fact my friend, but this is me (I marked the spot that starts to hurt with a red marker):





I also think my posture is way better than my friends.

Maybee I could apply some rubber or something there at the edge? Has anyone ever encountered anything similar to this. I hope a rubber like this wouldn't kill my guitar's tone...
Last edited by 71GA at Jul 15, 2015,
#37
Quote by Acϵ♠
Yaa sure bud go tell Petrucci to use a Les Paul for a whole show, or Alex Ovechkin to use a flat blade stick, or tell Tim Wakeman to throw a fastball. Your sentiment of stepping out of your comfort zone is entirely useless in this context, lol. Why the **** should I force uncomfortable playing on an unfamiliar instrument? That's not fun lol i just want to put the thing down, it's just a hobby. But a good feeling, familiar guitar makes me want to play more.

Why don't you put staples in the back of your guitar neck? Step out of your comfort zone, give yourself a real challenge?
That's not what I've been saying. I would suggest that Petrucci play a Les Paul during practice or in composition once in a while. And probably a bass, and drums, hell, bagpipes if he's game.
The comfort zone is where people get boring. Changing the instrument you're playing is one of several routes out of there.

And, while I'm not going to dismiss Petrucci's technical ability, I find most of his work boring.

Quote by fingrpikingood
What we are discussing is using different instruments. Obviously to break new ground, you have to do new things, which you are not yet comfortable with, and you have to practice to get comfortable. Everybody knows that's the case for everyone, and nobody's disputing that fact.

What you said, was that people need to switch up their instruments, because people need to get out of their comfort zone. You're moving goal posts now.

I don't really care to get into an endless circular argument with you. I'm just saying.

"People really need to do x." Is just an ugly thing to say, ESPECIALLY when some of the greatest musicians in the world, don't even do that.

I'm just saying.
Some of the greatest musicians in the world don't. But you mentioned Hendrix earlier. he's mostly associated with the Strat, but he also played V's, SGs, Jazzmasters, Duosonics, and Les Pauls.
#38
Quote by slapsymcdougal

Some of the greatest musicians in the world don't. But you mentioned Hendrix earlier. he's mostly associated with the Strat, but he also played V's, SGs, Jazzmasters, Duosonics, and Les Pauls.


Quote by fingrpikingood
You're moving goal posts now.

I don't really care to get into an endless circular argument with you. I'm just saying.

"People really need to do x." Is just an ugly thing to say, ESPECIALLY when some of the greatest musicians in the world, don't even do that.

I'm just saying.


OP I wouldn't worry about tone. But resale value, if it matters to you.

Like I said, if it was me, I would mess with strap, and if not, get something different. Guitar takes a lot of practice. If it's bothering you, it's gonna get worse, and you will develop a permanent mark where your guitar rubs on your arm. There are a lot of guitars in the world to choose from in this day and age.
Last edited by fingrpikingood at Jul 15, 2015,
#39
Quote by slapsymcdougal
That's not what I've been saying. I would suggest that Petrucci play a Les Paul during practice or in composition once in a while. And probably a bass, and drums, hell, bagpipes if he's game.
The comfort zone is where people get boring. Changing the instrument you're playing is one of several routes out of there.


I guess we should phone up John fkn Petrucci to personally deliver your sterling all-world wisdom then eh
Quote by yellowfrizbee
What does a girl have to do to get it in the butt thats all I ever wanted from you. Why, Ace? Why? I clean my asshole every night hoping and wishing and it never happens.
Bitches be Crazy.

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#40
Quote by Acϵ♠
I guess we should phone up John fkn Petrucci to personally deliver your sterling all-world wisdom then eh

Go ahead. Call collect, he loves that.
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