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#1
I'm looking for low wattage high gain tube amp. I mostly play Tool and some opeth. something that can go Under watt or that have a power soak(i am a bedroom player but i often jam with friends).

Here some amp i am seriously looking at...

- Engl gigmaster 15 head (670$) without footswitch
- Randall diavlo 20 watt head (630$)
- Mesa boogie mini rectifier head (i found a used one for 800$)

I can't go over 800$ for the head.

Thank you,
Will
#2
the gigmaster isn't all-tube (or at least, I very strongly suspect it's not all-tube), if that matters.

are you sure you can't just turn the thing down? how quietly do you have to play?

you're right that you'd probably have to get well under a watt for the power scaling to be worthwhile.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#3
I'd go for the mini recto head and talk him down a bit.

Do you already have a speaker cabinet? If so, what?

Where are you roughly? Like, what is your closest city?

I wouldn't worry about the watts. For metal (even Opeth) you actually WANT higher wattage. The circuit design and volume taper used will affect your volume more than wattage. There are other tricks you can do too for metal at low volumes - like volume pedal in the loop, tubescreamer type pedal, EQ'ing, etc.
#4
I wouldn't worry too much about wattage at bedroom volumes, especially when you're looking for high gain.

It's best to keep in mind that many low wattage amps are basically designed to be run at their limits while many higher wattage high gain amps are designed for the most headroom possible to keep the sound as tight as possible. The basic result is it's often easier to get good bedroom sounds out of a 100 watt amp than it is a 10 or 20 watt amp.

The important thing is that you test an amp at the volume you'll be playing at.

Sometimes at bedroom levels the easiest way to get really good results is a clean amp with a really great overdrive/dist pedal.
#6
The Krank Jr series is pretty nice
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#7
Quote by diabolical
also Laney VC15


Laney VC15 won't do it, it's a vintage-toned amp. Kind of confusing, the vc50 was (allegedly, I haven't tried it) the combo version of the VH100R (which is a high gain head which will do it), but the vc15 and 30 are completely different amps, much lower gain and more vintage-sounding.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
Quote by Dave_Mc
Laney VC15 won't do it, it's a vintage-toned amp. Kind of confusing, the vc50 was (allegedly, I haven't tried it) the combo version of the VH100R (which is a high gain head which will do it), but the vc15 and 30 are completely different amps, much lower gain and more vintage-sounding.

+311
The Laney VC50 was a 50 watt VH100r combo and the VC100 was the 100 watt combo
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#10
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I'd go for the mini recto head and talk him down a bit.

Do you already have a speaker cabinet? If so, what?

Where are you roughly? Like, what is your closest city?

I wouldn't worry about the watts. For metal (even Opeth) you actually WANT higher wattage. The circuit design and volume taper used will affect your volume more than wattage. There are other tricks you can do too for metal at low volumes - like volume pedal in the loop, tubescreamer type pedal, EQ'ing, etc.



I don't a speaker cabinet for the moment.. I'm looking at orange ppc112(480$), bogner cube usesd (500$), avatar (500$), egnater rebel(250$). The budget for the cab depend on how many money is left my total budget is 1100 cad.

I live close to montreal. Ther is no engl dealers so it a bit risky to buy it without trying it.
#11
Quote by nathparent69
I don't a speaker cabinet for the moment.. I'm looking at orange ppc112(480$), bogner cube usesd (500$), avatar (500$), egnater rebel(250$). The budget for the cab depend on how many money is left my total budget is 1100 cad.

I live close to montreal. Ther is no engl dealers so it a bit risky to buy it without trying it.

Why is the avatar $500? is it a 2x12?

Check out Traynor amps and cabs, they will be cheaper for you and made in Canada

It is also worth looking at www.guitarcenter.com/usedgear and having it shipped to the closest store in the US near you. You can get some insanely good deals
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#12
Quote by Robbgnarly
The Krank Jr series is pretty nice


The krank junior seems really nice. Is there a gain knob? don't see any. i find a used one for 400$ with the original cab(and if i don't like the cab maybe i can just buy the head. Can i get enough clarity out of this amp? Maybe it just because people that play it have drop Z tuning
#13
Why is the avatar $500? is it a 2x12?

nope a 1x12. shipping to canada is 90 USD. not cheap at all.
Last edited by nathparent69 at Jul 14, 2015,
#14
ironheart IRT Studio.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#15
There's the Joyo Mjolnir if you're the adventurous type
RG351DX - Bridge Dragonfire Screamer, Mid+Neck Fender Hot Noiseless
Peavey Valveking 112 - Eminence GB128
AMT E1 > Joyo AC Tone > Dan'o EQ > Shimverb > Digidelay
#16
Quote by nathparent69
The krank junior seems really nice. Is there a gain knob? don't see any. i find a used one for 400$ with the original cab(and if i don't like the cab maybe i can just buy the head. Can i get enough clarity out of this amp? Maybe it just because people that play it have drop Z tuning

Yeah the Krank Jr series has a clean channel that has a volume and tone (I think), but the krank channel has a sweep, bass, mid, treble, gain, volume and the presence is on the back.

The Krank Jr Pro series has a better clean channel and the channels are footswitch able. I have the 1980Jr 20watt and it is like a hot rod JCM800 with a clean channel. It can get very loud for 20watts. They also made a 50watt version of them also.

Go try it out if you can, the original Krank revJr 1x12 comes with a V1216 speaker, the K-steinJr 1x12 has a Texas Heat and the 1980Jr 1x12 has a Governor and the cabs are made very well


Check out this 2x12 Avatar is having a special on $399 for a orange ppc212 style cab with a choice of speakers. it would be a little more in CAD$ but still pretty damn cheap.
http://avatarspeakers.com/home/product/special-g212-contemporary-special/

it is roughly $560CAD with shipping
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Jul 14, 2015,
#17
Quote by nathparent69
The krank junior seems really nice. Is there a gain knob?


I think so EDIT: beaten to it
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#18
Quote by Robbgnarly
Yeah the Krank Jr series has a clean channel that has a volume and tone (I think), but the krank channel has a sweep, bass, mid, treble, gain, volume and the presence is on the back.

The Krank Jr Pro series has a better clean channel and the channels are footswitch able. I have the 1980Jr 20watt and it is like a hot rod JCM800 with a clean channel. It can get very loud for 20watts. They also made a 50watt version of them also.

Go try it out if you can, the original Krank revJr 1x12 comes with a V1216 speaker, the K-steinJr 1x12 has a Texas Heat and the 1980Jr 1x12 has a Governor and the cabs are made very well


Check out this 2x12 Avatar is having a special on $399 for a orange ppc212 style cab with a choice of speakers. it would be a little more in CAD$ but still pretty damn cheap.
http://avatarspeakers.com/home/product/special-g212-contemporary-special/

it is roughly $560CAD with shipping


The avatar would be approx 560cad i can get a real new orange(480$cad) for this price and even a used bogner cube (500cad$) i'm not really sure is it worth it? People are saying that bogner cube sound HUGE. and it kinda hard to borrow a 2x12
Last edited by nathparent69 at Jul 14, 2015,
#19
Quote by Dave_Mc
Laney VC15 won't do it, it's a vintage-toned amp.


I think you're confusing it with the LC15 which is more like a cooler Blues Jr/AC15 clone.
I have that one and it isn't exactly what I'd call vintage but geared more towards clean work, some low gain stuff like blues and rock. The VC15 is actually capable of bringing some high gain sounds but visually the two look identical.
#20
Quote by nathparent69
The avatar would be approx 560cad i can get a real new orange(480$cad) for this price and even a used bogner cube (500cad$) i'm not really sure is it worth it? People are saying that bogner cube sound HUGE. and it kinda hard to borrow a 2x12

But the Avatar I linked is a 2x12 orange style, your looking at a 1x12 Orange PPC, I'd much rather have the 2x12 over the 1x12 anyday unless space/weight is a real issue, I use my 2x12 vertically 90% of the time with my Krank 1980Jr sitting on top like a mini stack.

That avatar is based on the Orange PPC and comes with the exact same V30's. It will sound almost identical to the Orange PPC212 and better than the Orange PPC112
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#21
Quote by diabolical
I think you're confusing it with the LC15 which is more like a cooler Blues Jr/AC15 clone.
I have that one and it isn't exactly what I'd call vintage but geared more towards clean work, some low gain stuff like blues and rock. The VC15 is actually capable of bringing some high gain sounds but visually the two look identical.

The VC15 was the Vox AC15ish amp form what I can remember.

The Laney TT50 might be worth a look though, it is pretty versatile.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#22
Quote by Robbgnarly
But the Avatar I linked is a 2x12 orange style, your looking at a 1x12 Orange PPC, I'd much rather have the 2x12 over the 1x12 anyday unless space/weight is a real issue, I use my 2x12 vertically 90% of the time with my Krank 1980Jr sitting on top like a mini stack.

That avatar is based on the Orange PPC and comes with the exact same V30's. It will sound almost identical to the Orange PPC212 and better than the Orange PPC112



do you think i could get a really good adam jones tone with krank head + avatar 2x12 contemporary ( would cost 380$ head+ 600$ cab )
#23
Quote by Robbgnarly
But the Avatar I linked is a 2x12 orange style, your looking at a 1x12 Orange PPC, I'd much rather have the 2x12 over the 1x12 anyday unless space/weight is a real issue, I use my 2x12 vertically 90% of the time with my Krank 1980Jr sitting on top like a mini stack.

That avatar is based on the Orange PPC and comes with the exact same V30's. It will sound almost identical to the Orange PPC212 and better than the Orange PPC112



do you think i could get a really good adam jones tone with krank head + avatar 2x12 contemporary ( would cost 380$ head+ 600$ cab ). Does laney TT50 have a power soak?
#24
Quote by nathparent69
do you think i could get a really good adam jones tone with krank head + avatar 2x12 contemporary ( would cost 380$ head+ 600$ cab ). Does laney TT50 have a power soak?

Which Krank Jr is it? RevJr, K-steinJr or 1980Jr

They are all voiced differently.

I don't think the TT50 has a power soak

The mini rectifier would work just fine
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Jul 14, 2015,
#25
Quote by Robbgnarly
Which Krank Jr is it? RevJr, K-steinJr or 1980Jr

They are all voiced differently.

I don't think the TT50 has a power soak

The mini rectifier would work just fine



it rev jr. and what about randall diavlo 20. there is plenty of good review and ola recommended it to me because it sound alike of german tone ( low and mid focused )
#26
Try the rev Jr if you can, you may like it.

I have no experience with the Diavlo
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#27
used baron snott watt
Carvin CT624
Walden G630ce Acoustic
Carvin V3M, Avatar 2x12 WGS Reaper, vet 30
(crybaby, Fairfield circuitry Comp, GFS tuner, Vick Audio 73 Ram's Head, Xotic AC booster, lovepedal trem, TC Flashback, PGS Trinity Reverb, Walrus Audio Aetos power)
#28
Don't confuse wattage with volume. Wattage is more about the clean headroom and tracking of an amp than volume.

The Master Volume knob is all about Volume. . . . . . .

The Wattage switch is more about the voicing / character of the amp for the most part. There was a recent post about the 6505 Mini head (MH or something) where the poster observed "lower" volume at lower wattage settings. Relatively how much lower and bedroom usable, I'm not sure.

I suggest you get something that you love the sound of when you're playing with others and you can at least live with the tone of it turned down to bedroom volumes.

You'll go deaf with a 1W amp cranked in your bedroom without earplugs.

You can always go with something like a modeler pedal (Line 6 POD of choice and budget) or free/cheap amp sims on the computer with some decent speakers and a $20 guitar to USB interface for the bedroom and save the amp for jamming.

At a minimum try out any amp you get at both volume levels and make sure you like it as in the end that's all that matters.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#29
My RM100 will run down to a lower volume than my RM20. What is this low power bullshit with high gain amps? Such a friggin gimmick.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#30
Quote by Cathbard
My RM100 will run down to a lower volume than my RM20. What is this low power bullshit with high gain amps? Such a friggin gimmick.


I think it is mainly an excuse to sell cheaper version of that amp and cut down some parts of the design.
My Mesa Mini for example is a beast at 20watt but it looks kinda puny for full gig and quite a few things from the big amp are taken out. I'm aware of that and like its sound, but it is a downgrade from the big amp.
#31
That to me is kinda suprising. I was always told that 50 watt and over was way too loud
#33
It's an urban myth that is based in the 60's and 70's. ie. before the introduction of master volumes. With high gain amps you WANT all the distortion to come from the preamp so unless you want something physically small (I run my RM20 like a wedge, really close to me. The RM100 is physically too large for that) low power, high gain amps are BS.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#34
All my low power amps are kinda loud as f#ck
Still though, I wouldn't call it a myth as they're lower in volume than my big amps.
I track when late at night on Orange TT on 7watt and sounds great while being almost quiet, but not as good as when it is blasting.
#35
And it's because of the power rating? Are you sure? I assume that the presence of a global master volume on the RM100 is why it can be turned down lower than the RM20. That's four E34L's running at lower volume than two little EL84's.
Maximum power has SFA to do with low volume performance, it's overall circuit design that accounts for that.
Now if we were talking about non-MV amps that's a different story entirely but that's not what we are discussing.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#36
even 1 watt is pretty loud bed room wise with my Vox AC4TV

7 watts on my Carvin V3m and 10 watt on my Messa MK V will shake the walls turned up ...... I do like the high power settings better for low volume , it just seems like a fuller sound on both of these amps on high power with low volume , but 7 watt on the Carvin and the 10 watt on the Mesa sound good cranked
#37
This was written by an extremely talented amp designer/builder. Read it.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1571081


TS: Don't go small, go used.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#38
#39
Quote by nathparent69
That to me is kinda suprising. I was always told that 50 watt and over was way too loud


Depends on the tone you're chasing.

If you're looking for a fat creamy and slightly loose power tube breakup like what you hear in classic rock or blues music then yes, a 50 watt amp is going to absolutely be too loud unless you're amp has a really good master volume.

If you want a tighter more modern sound then it doesn't really matter how many watts you've got. In most cases you actually want more watts to keep the sound tight and focused.

As I said earlier I've had far more luck playing 100 watt amps in my bedroom than I have with 20 watt amps. In all honesty most of the 20 watters I've have at home were so loud at their minimum playable volume that you could hear them down the block.
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