#1
Hi, I bought a DI Box to try to cure my problem with ground loop or whatever is causing the hum I get and its fixed the problem but im not sure if my configuration is healthy or not. My chain is:

Guitar > Amp (line out) > DI Box(XLR cable and ground lift disabled) > Audio Interface(padding enabled) - PC

This gives me excellent results but I really am a noob on this, is there some other better configuration or maybe i need to get rid of the DI Box and get a hum eliminator instead? Thanks guys.
#2
That's how that works if you want to use the line out. The next step up would be to switch to a real mic, in my opinion.
Telecaster - SG - Jaguar
Princeton Reverb, Extra Reverb
P-Bass - Mustang Bass
Apogee Duet 2 - Ableton Suite
#3
If the ground lift switch is disengaged on the DI box is impossible that it fixed any ground loop issue.

Other than this, what Scott said.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
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Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
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#5
Quote by Spambot_2
If the ground lift switch is disengaged on the DI box is impossible that it fixed any ground loop issue.

Other than this, what Scott said.

This is why ive come here, I dont understand why the ground lift makes the problem worse, with it off I dont get any hum.
#6
Quote by PSimonR
What do you mean by healthy?

What you have done is perfectly reasonable.

Thanks, I have no idea if im overloading something or not getting the best out of the chain. I believe DI Box's are not intended for what im using it for and that maybe a dedicated hum eliminator is best.
#7
Quote by Sid McCall
That's how that works if you want to use the line out. The next step up would be to switch to a real mic, in my opinion.

Thanks I just sold my shure mic because I realised I needed to build an isolation box for the mic and speaker to get good results, so decided to go direct instead see what results I get, ive heard some amazing tones from using just an audio interface and PC. no noises no nasty frequencies, unless they are lying and used a mic and hum eliminators all over the place lol
#8
Quote by pxr5
This is why ive come here, I dont understand why the ground lift makes the problem worse, with it off I dont get any hum.

You're probably just saying off when you mean on or something, which confused him. If your ears say there's no hum, then there's no hum.
Telecaster - SG - Jaguar
Princeton Reverb, Extra Reverb
P-Bass - Mustang Bass
Apogee Duet 2 - Ableton Suite
#9
Quote by pxr5
This is why ive come here, I dont understand why the ground lift makes the problem worse, with it off I dont get any hum.
If you don't get any noise when the ground is not lifted then the vypyr's ground has a too high impedance, and you're solving the problem by using a larger ground, which effectively lowers its impedance.

If you don't get any noise when the ground is lifted then the vypyr and the computer's sound card simply have a different ground reference, a.k.a. they are at a different voltage.
Quote by pxr5
Thanks I just sold my shure mic because I realised I needed to build an isolation box for the mic and speaker to get good results
This is false, and it's really only necessary if you live in a place where even a little bit of noise for very short time upsets your neighbors.
Quote by pxr5
ive heard some amazing tones from using just an audio interface and PC
They didn't use a vypyr in between.

Not like you can't achieve good results that way, but it'd be easier with a simple interface (read the introduction to recording sticky), amp sims and a bit of practice.

If you don't wanna spend any money that's admirable but you'll have to practice quite a bit to achieve good results.

If the noise keeps bothering you find a noise gate or noise suppression plugin to put at the beginning of the chain in your DAW.
Quote by pxr5
no noises no nasty frequencies, unless they are lying and used a mic and hum eliminators all over the place lol
Using the setup you just described wouldn't help reducing noise really.

In most cases it would raise it actually.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#10
Quote by Spambot_2
If you don't get any noise when the ground is not lifted then the vypyr's ground has a too high impedance, and you're solving the problem by using a larger ground, which effectively lowers its impedance.

If you don't get any noise when the ground is lifted then the vypyr and the computer's sound card simply have a different ground reference, a.k.a. they are at a different voltage.
This is false, and it's really only necessary if you live in a place where even a little bit of noise for very short time upsets your neighbors.
They didn't use a vypyr in between.

Not like you can't achieve good results that way, but it'd be easier with a simple interface (read the introduction to recording sticky), amp sims and a bit of practice.

If you don't wanna spend any money that's admirable but you'll have to practice quite a bit to achieve good results.

If the noise keeps bothering you find a noise gate or noise suppression plugin to put at the beginning of the chain in your DAW.
Using the setup you just described wouldn't help reducing noise really.

In most cases it would raise it actually.

Thanks enjoyed that info but what is vypyr? something to do with peavey?

I have got great results using amp sims and interface's and then post processing in Reaper but ive never got close to the silky smooth tones others get and ive poured years into it, its embarrassing I still cant record a good tone.

The only time ive heard tones like they get is when they show their expensive rig and they have tubes the size of milk bottles and 15 fans cooling them down not to mention the stack of flashing lights that cost about 50 grand.
Last edited by pxr5 at Jul 18, 2015,
#11
Quote by pxr5
Thanks enjoyed that info but what is vypyr? something to do with peavey?
Sorry, for some reason I assumed you were using a vypyr amp.

The info works with whatever amp tho.
Quote by pxr5
The only time ive heard tones like they get is when they show their expensive rig and they have tubes the size of milk bottles and 15 fans cooling them down not to mention the stack of flashing lights that cost about 50 grand.
That's a hell of an exaggeration y' know.

Biggest limit is usually software.
What amp sims are you using, what pre and post processing are you applying, what hardware are you using exactly... ?

Also a sample of the tone you're getting now would help.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#12
Quote by pxr5
Thanks, I have no idea if im overloading something or not getting the best out of the chain. I believe DI Box's are not intended for what im using it for and that maybe a dedicated hum eliminator is best.


Well my DI box is suitable for any signal level from guitar output to speaker output; i.e. 50mV to 50V. It has the necessary pads and tappings for this.

https://www.studiospares.com/Microphones/DI-Boxes/Studiospares-Pro-Dual-Passive-DI-Box_458280.htm

and provided you use the right input the signal noise ratio and headroom is optimised.
(clearly you don't want to go back to mic level if you can avoid it though)
Last edited by PSimonR at Jul 19, 2015,
#13
Quote by Spambot_2
Sorry, for some reason I assumed you were using a vypyr amp.

The info works with whatever amp tho.
That's a hell of an exaggeration y' know.

Biggest limit is usually software.
What amp sims are you using, what pre and post processing are you applying, what hardware are you using exactly... ?

Also a sample of the tone you're getting now would help.


Im using a charvel charvette into an mbox 2 mini, then into PC and guitar rig software. Not the best setup but Ive had much nicer guitars and reults have only been a bit better, I still get the same nasty frequencies when I start adding effects.

I use the default sims like Van 51, when I try other people presets they are ok but it sounds rough for recording, bits of fuzzyness creeping in here and there for example.

In Reaper I usually make a copy of the track and add different effects and panning etc, got some good results but as I said theres a lot lacking in the tone and I think its because im removing so much goodness with gates and EQ but I need to to clean it up. Its always a headache.
#14
Quote by PSimonR
Well my DI box is suitable for any signal level from guitar output to speaker output; i.e. 50mV to 50V. It has the necessary pads and tappings for this.

https://www.studiospares.com/Microphones/DI-Boxes/Studiospares-Pro-Dual-Passive-DI-Box_458280.htm

and provided you use the right input the signal noise ratio and headroom is optimised.

Im not sure what you mean, I will go and educate myself on google thanks for the info.
#15
Quote by pxr5
guitar rig software.
Here, I found your problem.

Seriously, ditch guitar rig, amplitube, pod farm and all of the other common shit amp sims.

Have a look at the amp sims sticky in this thread.

I recommend LePou's stuff, free and actually pretty great.
Then there's softube vintage/metal amp room, and then scuffham s gear, and then bx_rockrack...

Try a lot of stuff, but for your sake ditch guitar rig.
Quote by pxr5
I use the default sims like Van 51, when I try other people presets they are ok but it sounds rough for recording, bits of fuzzyness creeping in here and there for example.
Stop using other people's presets then.

These are tailored for other people's equipment, which you don't have, so learn what makes a good tone in your opinion and set your amp sims accordingly.
Quote by pxr5
In Reaper I usually make a copy of the track and add different effects and panning
You're imposing too much rules and problems to yourself.

Double track and hard pan your recordings using only slightly (if any) different sounds for each track.
Quote by pxr5
theres a lot lacking in the tone and I think its because im removing so much goodness with gates and EQ but I need to to clean it up.
You don't "remove tone", you change it.

Noise gates don't remove anything when the signal you're feeding them goes above the threshold, so that's not a problem.

EQing might be a problem, but I reckon you'll find less fizz without guitar rig.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#16
Quote by pxr5
Im using a charvel charvette into an mbox 2 mini, then into PC and guitar rig software. Not the best setup but Ive had much nicer guitars and reults have only been a bit better, I still get the same nasty frequencies when I start adding effects.

I use the default sims like Van 51, when I try other people presets they are ok but it sounds rough for recording, bits of fuzzyness creeping in here and there for example.

In Reaper I usually make a copy of the track and add different effects and panning etc, got some good results but as I said theres a lot lacking in the tone and I think its because im removing so much goodness with gates and EQ but I need to to clean it up. Its always a headache.


Sounds like you are doing far too much processing.

Go back and start again. First make sure you can get a clean recording of the guitar then add things one at a time; amp, cab sim, then one pedal sim.
#17
Quote by Spambot_2
Here, I found your problem.

Seriously, ditch guitar rig, amplitube, pod farm and all of the other common shit amp sims.

Have a look at the amp sims sticky in this thread.

I recommend LePou's stuff, free and actually pretty great.
Then there's softube vintage/metal amp room, and then scuffham s gear, and then bx_rockrack...

Try a lot of stuff, but for your sake ditch guitar rig.
Stop using other people's presets then.

These are tailored for other people's equipment, which you don't have, so learn what makes a good tone in your opinion and set your amp sims accordingly.
You're imposing too much rules and problems to yourself.

Double track and hard pan your recordings using only slightly (if any) different sounds for each track.
You don't "remove tone", you change it.

Noise gates don't remove anything when the signal you're feeding them goes above the threshold, so that's not a problem.

EQing might be a problem, but I reckon you'll find less fizz without guitar rig.

Thanks again for the information, you just triggered a flashback from a few years ago, I did actually download some special amp sims that you use outside of guitar rig, they were better but back then I was an idiot and didnt know I needed an audio interface so I will give them another go. cheers

That "fizz" is what im trying to get away from its a bloody horrible sound.
Last edited by pxr5 at Jul 19, 2015,
#18
Quote by PSimonR
Sounds like you are doing far too much processing.

Go back and start again. First make sure you can get a clean recording of the guitar then add things one at a time; amp, cab sim, then one pedal sim.

Yea I think getting that initial clean recording is the tricky bit because im never sure what the levels should be like on the interface, also the padding etc they remove a lot of noise but also a lot of volume and clarity.
#19
Quote by pxr5
Yea I think getting that initial clean recording is the tricky bit because im never sure what the levels should be like on the interface, also the padding etc they remove a lot of noise but also a lot of volume and clarity.


So normally guitar full up, interface volume so signal is between -20 and -10dBFS - certainly nothing above -10dB for tracking.

https://youtu.be/TGFy-s-mG70

explains this. Most of what this guy says is correct - ignore the last couple of minutes and rule 12.

You must not allow digital clipping because it sounds really really crap.
Last edited by PSimonR at Jul 19, 2015,
#20
Quote by PSimonR
So normally guitar full up, interface volume so signal is between -20 and -10dBFS - certainly nothing above -10dB for tracking.
First of all you measure volume level in dBFS after it's converted to digital, so what you wrote makes little sense.

Then, why should you leave 10dB of headroom ever?

The volume of the strongest possible hit in the loudest possible position should not overload any stage.
If that is the case, then RMS level might well be only 3dB less than the max input headroom.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#21
Damn you guys know your stuff, I cant get my head around all this. I tried those plugins you mentioned very good indeed but it will take time to be comfortable with it.