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#1
ok thought this might make an interesting topic for discussion. of course there is no right or wrong answer so that is a given. so keep it to your opinion and everyone be nice

ok we've all said to ourselves "damn if i only had ______ then i'd surely have a great tone and sound awesome" now of course when you're starting out and using that starter pack gear then sure "better" will most likely be different gear. as you go along though there comes a point where you have to admit (at least to yourself) that if you can't get a decent sound out of what i have then it must be me. we'll assume for the sake of teh discussion that you've been playing a while so it's not so much a lack of skill playing the guitar.

for me once i hit the mid level gear the excuses got tougher for me to really believe deep down inside. i practice with my Valveking and one of those mini pedal chinese tubescreamer clones (eno music od-9). i mainly play either my modded MIM strat or my BC Rich Eagle. neither can be considered high end. with just that gear i manage to get some pretty decent tones and sound good. note that i said good and not "great" as that is a different issue so to speak. of course i have "better" gear but even then nothing that makes TGP drool or jeff beck will be calling me begging to use

so what do you think?
#2
My opinion is that tone is primarily in your gear (mostly amps & pedals), and your taste, phrasing, attack- IOW, all the techniques you use with that tone- are in the fingers.

So I think once you get out of the cheap stuff and into the medium-level gear, you don't have any more room for excuses for not having a decent tone. Now, it may not be the tone you WANT, but will still be respectable.

If you're using mid-level gear and you still have bad tone, you're either not dialing something in properly, something in your chain is defective, or something you THOUGHT was decent wasn't.

And of course, you might want to check your ears.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Jul 18, 2015,
#5
In my line of playing, P&W, I feel like I have to concern myself with tone much more than others might. I have to make sure my tone isn't distracting but adds to the experience. Rather than someone being a stereotypical guitarist with a setup like a plexi, ts9, and a delay, I have to have many cogs in the wheel. I somewhat have stopped being a guitarist in the technique sense and I'm more of a sound-scaper.
#6
I guess the real question is, "is my tone letting me down or is it my playing?"
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#7
Quote by Cathbard
I guess the real question is, "is my tone letting me down or is it my playing?"

Bingo!

You can have a great tone, but if you play badly, all that people will notice is that you play badly.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#8
And if you play well then you can get away with just about anything in the eyes of the non-muso audience. The only people that notice tone are the other musos in the crowd.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#9
Probably close enough to the truth, too.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#10
for me getting better gear was to eliminate potential problems when gigging live , it's unbelievable the problems that can come out when gigging live that we never had at practice in the garage or in a home inviroment ..... home players have no idea of the things that can happen ..... even adjusting your amp for the different places you play in is so different compared to when I was just a home player ....... if you play bad nothing is going to hide that , especially a tube amp
#11
Quote by Cathbard
I guess the real question is, "is my tone letting me down or is it my playing?"


well that's the reason i took playing out of the equation in my original post. this ? isn't about what a potential audience may think it's about what you the guitar player thinks. this is on a personal level and not about whether your actual tone is good etc. just at what point do YOU feel you can't blame "substandard gear" rather than yourself.
#12
The worst amp I've ever owned was my first amp, a Yamaha G100. That's not a bad amp at all for SS. Tbh, I don't think I've ever had what I'd call bad tone so I might just bow out.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#13
Quote by Cathbard
The worst amp I've ever owned was my first amp, a Yamaha G100. That's not a bad amp at all for SS. Tbh, I don't think I've ever had what I'd call bad tone so I might just bow out.


well pretend . yeah i had one of those to back in the 80s and they aren't bad amps. guessing that even you questioned yourself at some points about whether it was the gear or just you though.
#14
Not really. I was gigging after less than a year's playing. I played alongside a guy playing a Mesa Mk3 and I kicked his arse using my G100. He had better tone, sure - but I slayed him nonetheless. I didn't upgrade the amp out of necessity, I just knew I could sound a bit better with a better amp. I doubt anybody but me noticed much though.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#15
I don't think you ever get to blame your gear. If you've used it as well as it can be used, that's all you need.

You may want better gear for any number of reasons, and that's fine, but I've seen truly good musicians make pretty shoddy kit sound excellent.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#16
At What Point Can You No Longer Blame Your Gear


For me it was when I finally got a tube amp. No more excuses, I already knew with an acoustic if it didn't sound good it was me, once I eliminated the crappy solid state amp, it's been no more excuses. If I don't sound good it's me, not the gear. I can play with just amp and overdrive, which I do at practice all the time, and it works. But if I'm off, gear makes no difference.

Give me any good tube amp, I can get a good sound, if I don't it's not the gear.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
Last edited by Paleo Pete at Jul 18, 2015,
#17
"Bad" gear doesn't necessarily mean bad tone. ANYONE can make a gem...or a lemon. But as you go up the quality scale, it is less and less likely that your problems are gear related.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#18
I think if you can specifically point out exactly how your gear is failing you then its probably legit.
With my early amps and guitars they wouldn't sound out fingertapping or harmonics very well even though I was doing it correctly.
That's a clear case of crappy gear


If it's just "this sounds shitty" then it might be you.
Last edited by EyeNon15 at Jul 18, 2015,
#19
Never blame the gear. Make the most with what you have and if you want better gear, get better gear but it's not the gears fault if you suck.

We gig with the axe we have, not the axe we wish we had.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#20
For me it's a bit different because I get amps to hear different sounds, not necessarily chase a dream tone. I have had a ton of different stuff, I just recently traded a Peavey Ultra Plus for som cash and a Fender Champ 12, so obviously I'm not exactly going in a straight line with my gear purchases

I think that there really isn't a point where you can levy the blame on gear. Even with most new practice amps you can get a pretty great tone as compared to some of the stuff that was available even 10 years back. Obviously there are instances when something just doesn't work, but you should be able to get something at the mid-low price point that does what you need.

I mean hell, a POD and a wedge will do most things at least decently.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#21
Quote by Paleo Pete
For me it was when I finally got a tube amp. No more excuses,


That's pretty much how it was with me. In hindsight, probably some of it was my playing too, but once I got a tube amp, there was a big enough increase in the quality of how I sounded, and things "worked" and sounded like the record which previously didn't, to the extent that, as you said, I had no more excuses and also genuinely felt that if I duffed up, it was my fault, whereas previously I felt the gear was holding me back.

Quote by Cathbard
I guess the real question is, "is my tone letting me down or is it my playing?"


Agreed.

The other thing is, you can have good gear, but still be using it incorrectly. Maybe your guitar's badly set up, or you don't know how to use your gear to get the tones you want. Just because you have good gear and sound bad doesn't necessarily mean you're a bad player.

Quote by dannyalcatraz
"Bad" gear doesn't necessarily mean bad tone. ANYONE can make a gem...or a lemon. But as you go up the quality scale, it is less and less likely that your problems are gear related.


Yeah.

Assuming you're using the gear correctly, and assuming you're using suitable gear for the type(s) of music you're playing.

Quote by monwobobbo
whoa dude don't overload us with to much info


I think he means he's lurking to see if the thread delivers
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jul 19, 2015,
#22
ok a few here missed teh mark on my intention. this isn't about "good" tone or anything like that. it's part of human nature to not want to blame oneself for whatever woes surround us. as guitar players it's pretty easy to say eh.... must be the guitar, amp , pedals etc. the idea behind the thread is to discuss at what point are you kinda forced to admit to yourself that the issue is more likely you than the gear (even if you won't say it to others).

the gear listed in my original post is far from top quality and yet is good enough that i'm forced to say that if i don't sound good through it then it's gotta be me. yes we shouldn't blame the gear but i think most will have to admit that a good part of GAS is the notion in the back of your head that you will somehow sound way better if it had _____.
#23
In that case, I've never blamed my gear.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#24
I think the tendency to blame gear depends more on your personality than the quality of your gear. Some people need to blame everyone/everything except themselves. Others don't.

Beyond obvious limitations in gear, such as trying to gig with a practice amp or trying to play death metal with a Blues Jr there really is no excuse to blame gear anymore.
#26
I think you can only really blame the gear if it's not able to function the way it is intended or is not functionally appropriate for what you're using it for.

Outside of those circumstances, It's important to learn to make the most of what you have, even if what you have sucks, because if your first instinct is to blame your gear you can get stuck in a rut where nothing will ever be good enough.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#27
We all see a lot of forum posts asking about;
"What is the best amp for (insert style of music)?"
"Is this guitar appropriate for playing (insert style of music)?"
"How do I get this specific tone?"
It's a perception I'm sure we have all had when we started playing. The "if only I had that piece of gear" syndrome. I generally stay out of those discussions because there is no right answer.

I chased the sound of early Carlos Santana for years buying a Gibson SG (same modal with the P90 pickups) but I didn't sound like Carlos. My next step was a Mesa Boogie amp. Hmmm........Still didn't sound like Carlos. Eventually it was obvious that nothing I bought was ever going to make me sound like Carlos Santana. As simple as that thought seems now, it was a big revelation at the time for me personally. One day as I was about to buy a very expensive PRS guitar I stopped myself. That was the day many years ago that I stopped blaming my equipment and accepting that it was me and not my gear.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at Jul 20, 2015,
#28
I just remembered another reason to blame gear: when you've worn it out. No matter how well it is treated, at some point, any piece of gear can fail due to age and use.

I KILLED my first guitar- a cheap Alvarez acoustic. After @a year of play, it couldn't get a good tone out of it. When I took it in for repairs, the tech told me I had warped the neck and it had enough other problems that he told me it was cheaper to replace than to repair.

Yeah, I know Willie has & plays Trigger, but when was the last time you heard that thing in person, not through microphones & PA systems? He doesn't play Trigger because it sounds good, he plays Trigger because it is an old friend and it is expected of him.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#29
Quote by Blompcube
I think you can only really blame the gear if it's not able to function the way it is intended or is not functionally appropriate for what you're using it for.

Outside of those circumstances, It's important to learn to make the most of what you have, even if what you have sucks, because if your first instinct is to blame your gear you can get stuck in a rut where nothing will ever be good enough.

This is basically my opinion of the subject too, only written more clear than I would have. My main amp has very lil gain, it'd be silly of me to "blame" the amp for not getting a good metal tone. And I don't think I've ever "chased" anyone else's specific tone, at least not consciously, so I've never blamed my gear for that. Beyond wishing I had a delay at the time, or, currently, a good phaser, something like that that's required for delay, or phaser, I don't think I've ever blamed my gear.
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
#30
Quote by EyeNon15
What's that saying about a poor workman???


I hate that saying. It's BS.

Quote by some_dude_2
I think the tendency to blame gear depends more on your personality than the quality of your gear. Some people need to blame everyone/everything except themselves. Others don't.

Beyond obvious limitations in gear, such as trying to gig with a practice amp or trying to play death metal with a Blues Jr there really is no excuse to blame gear anymore.


I dunno. I mean, I have a fair few guitars, and a fair few amps, and most of them suit certain tones better than others, to the extent that I can play some things on some of them without breaking a sweat, and on others I'll really struggle to the extent that I really can't play it well at all.

Is that blaming my tools?

Don't get me wrong- you can certainly blame your tools when you're at fault. But the cure for that (IMO) isn't lurching to the other extreme and saying that it's never ok to blame your tools, or only ok in very extreme circumstances with a ton of caveats.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jul 20, 2015,
#31
An interesting question. I've never blamed my inabilities on the instrument, and maybe I should have, because it took me 30 years of playing acoustic and intermittently trying electrics before I finally came to terms with them. This was because I was paying far too much attention to the lump of wood and not enough to the amplification chain -pickups, stomps, amp. Now it comes down to having pickups and an amp I like, the lump of wood doesn't much matter. The pickups don't have to be expenssive, but I do now have a good understanding of what works for me. I don't know about amps, I never had any luck with SS, but that was a long time ago, and I've since stopped looking at them. So I suppose the answer to your question is when I started to understand what worked for me.
#32
I think we need to address this as a two sided issue:

1) Technique
2) Gear

There are some people that can never connect the two. I know some guitarists that have great chops but always fall for a nasty guitar tone, these guys with the right roadie/tech/producer would go much further. I guess I can name a lot of them but I'd use Yngwie Malmsteen. The last few albums he produces himself and you can hear it - his tone is basically gone down to sh*t. You listen to some of his earlier work, like the Rising Force albums where he had a bonafide producer and it sounds completely different.
But then again analyzing his playing, if you can tune out everything else but guitar chops you'd notice that even on the badly produced albums maybe 80% of his "sound" is there, so it must be in the "fingers".

I can't talk about myself as I went through different phrases, early on trying to sound like other people and the last maybe 8 years trying to carve a more of something that could be called a "signature tone".

I've also noticed that every gig "sounds" different to me, even if I am using the same gear, same soundman, etc. The energy of the room, the way you feel that day, the monitor mix, even the substances that you took before hitting the stage (say you ate a Big Mac vs a vegan meal, even though I don't mean that) ... this all affects the way you perceive your sound. I've had gigs that sounded totally shoddy to me on stage, and then I listen to a recording and they're fantastic...even the solo that I thought I botched up. Gigs that sound fantastic on stage sometimes translate to sh*t in the audience too...So it is all subjective.

I'd say as long as your fans like you and you have kids complement your tone and ask for advice, you're probably on the right track. The more people notice, the more you are on the right track.

Even someone with utterly sh*tty tone, like say Dimebag, thanks to technique and a pretty solid marketing machine made it his thing and kids still buy those ridiculously expensive weird shaped guitars with the ugly graphics that are also subpar with every other instrument in that price range. In order to sell these, he must've nailed all the requirements.

As far as the poster mentioning Carlos Santana - I don't understand what's so hard to get on his tone, I can pretty much do it right on every guitar. It is essentially tube amp set to mild distortion breakup, the treble rolled off and playing gypsy flamenco scales through an electric guitar.
#33
I'll give a couple of personal examples on this. See if anything rings true for you:

My first guitar was a used 62 Fender Duo-Sonic and I had a Teisco 18w SS amp. Pretty lame gear by modern standards and honestly I sounded pretty lame. I was whining about my guitar at a music store and this local hot shoe plugged it into a Deluxe Reverb, dimed the amp and proceeded to rip it up a bit. Yep, the guitar apparently works just fine but the player needs to hit the woodshed some more. I went and found a Super Reverb to get that Blackface tone and things improved marginally. I still didn't think the guitar was cool enough for my undiscovered awesomeness.

After spending several months practicing and throwing a paper route to earn $$ I scraped up enough to get the dream guitar. A used 67 Gibson SG Special just like on the cover of Live at Leeds. Surely this would be the full transformation into superstardom. I was practicing a lot and playing in a band but guitar tone was still pretty tepid. I hadn't figured it out yet and I thought my gear still sucked. There must be something wrong with this amp...

One night we were playing a summer dance. I was limping along with my weak-ass guitar tone and an older guy asked if he could sit in for one. I was 15 and this guy was probably 22 or so. My keys player knew him and said he was good so I said "sure". Oh my, he lit into Hendrix Red House and just destroyed the place. This guy on my gear sounded better than Jimi did when he was drunk at a local concert that year. I was floored! I memorized the settings this guy used on my amp but also payed a lot of attention to how he just attacked the fretboard and strings. It was all pretty clear now. This guy gets it and I don't yet. But I WILL get it. This was the beginning of my real search for great guitar tone and how much the player influences it both with the settings he chooses, and the way he attacks the strings and fretboard.

I took more advanced private lessons to increase my vocabulary and watched every concert or film I could to see how other players do it (no youtube then). After a few more years most would say my signature guitar tone and technique had arrived. The gear was never really the problem. In my case at least we had a weak-ass player problem and it took me 6 years to figure it out. I could play all the notes and the chords but they just never sounded badass. No stank!

Now days I could probably go back to that shorty Duo-Sonic and Teisco amp and find some pretty decent tone. It wouldn't be as good as the SG thru a Fender Blackface but it would be listenable at least and if necessary I could play a gig with it in a pinch. The gear does matter, it's just that the fingers matter a whole lot more.

Resist the temptation to blame the gear because it just distracts you from the real issue. When in doubt, have another experienced player use your stuff first and see if he takes it where you want to go.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jul 20, 2015,
#34
Quote by monwobobbo

for me once i hit the mid level gear the excuses got tougher for me to really believe deep down inside.


I started out with top of the line gear and several years of playing professionally (keys) with some very good guitarists. For me it was never about the gear, and I was well aware of it. I knew exactly what the gear was capable of and if I wasn't getting that out of it, it was all on me.

These days I could hand you a $225 (new) guitar and a $300 amp, and if you can't get something amazing out of it, you have no excuses, because I can hand the same gear to a good player and he'll stun you.

In the immortal words of Maria Muldaur when she was hot and juicy and singing Midnight at the Oasis, "It ain't the meat, it's the motion, that makes your mama want to rock..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvrupRQD44I
#35
It's like a basketball!!! Lebron will still do amazing shit even if the ball is flat, or the net is missing, or the rim is crooked
#36
Yes.

But if the ball is flat enough, even LeBron will struggle to make a quick dribble between the legs, or an accurate bounce pass to a cutting teammate in the lane.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#37
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Yes.

But if the ball is flat enough, even LeBron will struggle to make a quick dribble between the legs, or an accurate bounce pass to a cutting teammate in the lane.


There are always practical limitations. Like the guitar pickups don't work or the amp has a fried speaker.

Personally I would not choose to gig with a Fender Mustang guitar and a Frontline or Marshall MG amp because they are below my gig-quality floor but in a pinch I could. It would hurt some though...
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jul 20, 2015,
#38
There's another point that people haven't mentioned yet- people keep saying, "let a good player play through your supposedly-subpar kit and see how it sounds."

That's all well and good- but just because the good player can make mediocre (or worse) kit sound good, doesn't mean he/she is enjoying playing through it.

Going to my last example- I can still play with the kit I said was unsuitable. Some people might even think I sound halfway decent with it, and some people might not be able to notice any difference (when listening) to when I'm using supposedly more suitable kit.

But I can tell. I know that I'm killing myself to make it sound the same, whereas with better/more suitable kit it's a breeze.

I don't know why you would make it hard on yourself when you don't have to. It's no fun at all.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#39
Quote by Dave_Mc
There's another point that people haven't mentioned yet- people keep saying, "let a good player play through your supposedly-subpar kit and see how it sounds."

That's all well and good- but just because the good player can make mediocre (or worse) kit sound good, doesn't mean he/she is enjoying playing through it.

Going to my last example- I can still play with the kit I said was unsuitable. Some people might even think I sound halfway decent with it, and some people might not be able to notice any difference (when listening) to when I'm using supposedly more suitable kit.

But I can tell. I know that I'm killing myself to make it sound the same, whereas with better/more suitable kit it's a breeze.

I don't know why you would make it hard on yourself when you don't have to. It's no fun at all.


yeah the "good" player thing only goes so far. most of the time what you end up concentrating on is the actual playing vs the tone. i also think that subconciously you give the guy a break because you know its "subpar" gear. seems that most often you hear comments like he sounded good despite the crappy gear. no one is running home trying to get that sound though. also no point in making it harder on yoursel as well, totally agree.

now more to my point. as i mentioned i tend to practice with my MIM over my 89 Strat Plus Deluxe, my Valveking over my Ultra and a chinese ts9 clone over my CM-2 or T-Rex Crunchy Frog. yes the other gear is certainly "better" but i can get pretty close with the lesser gear which is certainly fine for practice. this kinda lead me to realize that even though like most i dream about having "awesome" rock star calibre gear that it probably isn't necessary to actually sound good.
#40
Quote by monwobobbo
(a) yeah the "good" player thing only goes so far. most of the time what you end up concentrating on is the actual playing vs the tone. i also think that subconciously you give the guy a break because you know its "subpar" gear. seems that most often you hear comments like he sounded good despite the crappy gear. no one is running home trying to get that sound though. also no point in making it harder on yoursel as well, totally agree.

(b) now more to my point. as i mentioned i tend to practice with my MIM over my 89 Strat Plus Deluxe, my Valveking over my Ultra and a chinese ts9 clone over my CM-2 or T-Rex Crunchy Frog. yes the other gear is certainly "better" but i can get pretty close with the lesser gear which is certainly fine for practice. this kinda lead me to realize that even though like most i dream about having "awesome" rock star calibre gear that it probably isn't necessary to actually sound good.


(a) agreed (good point about lowering your expectations as well- that goes for a lot of cheaper gear)

(b) That's an interesting point- I would agree with you, but I would also say that the cheaper examples you mentioned there are very similar types of gear i.e. they're cheaper but they are still in the suitable camp.

For example, since you mentioned tubescreamer-style ODs, my joyo tubescreamer clone sounds basically the same as my visual sound route 808. I'd have no problem sounding the same with either, and I'd have no problem using the joyo (aside from the fact that I'd trust the VS Rt808 more not to break).

I'd have no problem using my MIJ charvel instead of my USA Charvel. The Schaller OFR on the USA one is slightly nicer, but other than that, they're more or less identical. Again, I have no problem with sounding good on either.

I'd have more trouble if someone tried to make me use, say, a vintage-spec strat or tele for high gain, shredding-type playing. Granted, that'd be the case whether a cheap version or a high-end version.

EDIT: Also I'd say with the examples you used (and also with the ones I used) that even the cheaper versions are still within the "decent" bracket- a valveking isn't as good as the ultra, but it's still a decent amp. Ditto the tubescreamer clone and the MIM Fender.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jul 21, 2015,
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