#1
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/24/opinion/david-brooks-the-minimum-wage-muddle.html


Recently, Michael Wither and Jeffrey Clemens of the University of California, San Diego looked at data from the 2007 federal minimum-wage hike and found that it reduced the national employment-to-population ratio by 0.7 percentage points (which is actually a lot), and led to a six percentage point decrease in the likelihood that a low-wage worker would have a job.

Because low-wage workers get less work experience under a higher minimum-wage regime, they are less likely to transition to higher-wage jobs down the road. Wither and Clemens found that two years later, workers’ chances of making $1,500 a month was reduced by five percentage points.



MaCurdy found that the costs of raising the wage are passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices. Minimum-wage workers often work at places that disproportionately serve people down the income scale. So raising the minimum wage is like a regressive consumption tax paid for by the poor to subsidize the wages of workers who are often middle class.


Raising the minimum wage will produce winners among job holders from all backgrounds, but it will disproportionately punish those with the lowest skills, who are least likely to be able to justify higher employment costs.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#2
That's what I was saying then Neo's like "nah that's not true blah blah"

Same way rent controls help people who already have apartments but **** over anybody who's looking for one.

libtards I swear
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#4
So raising the minimum wage is like a regressive consumption tax paid for by the poor to subsidize the wages of workers who are often middle class.


So what you're saying is tax the rich?


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#5
Quote by JamSessionFreak
So what you're saying is tax the rich?

Define rich.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#6
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Define rich.

Everyone who has more money than me.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#7
Quote by JamSessionFreak
So what you're saying is tax the rich?



Tax everyone, but make sure the rich are actually ****ing paying theirs. Remember when GE got in trouble in 2013 for paying $0 in income tax because they claimed all their income via offices in Ireland?

What we should probably do is make sure big companies who are based and mostly employ in the US claim their US income in the damn US so they can't evade taxes.
#9
Quote by Rossenrot
^
Maybe we should have a simple tax code and realistic tax levels?


Maybe we should.
#11
Quote by ErikLensherr
That's what I was saying then Neo's like "nah that's not true blah blah"

Same way rent controls help people who already have apartments but **** over anybody who's looking for one.

libtards I swear




On the topic of taxation, why should any individual be squeezed out of more of their money when the US government is grossly irresponsible with its spending?

If you're a college student and your college just spent over half of its entire budget on a new statue but then hikes up tuition 15% for the next academic year because they claim they need to be able to cover administrative costs, is that acceptable? No? Then why is acceptable for anyone, millionaire or not, to pay another fucking extra cent for the government's bullshit?

http://www.businessinsider.com/wasteful-defense-spending-makes-us-less-safe-20

The F-35 is an extraordinarily expensive jet that has never even seen combat. It doesn’t work as it’s intended to, it’s devouring budgets for everything from police to teachers, and it won’t even be ready until 2019 — almost 10 years late. And — you guessed it — it’s all being paid for with American taxpayer dollars.

In an article about military bureaucracy and the F-35, the Mises Institute’s Ryan McMaken discussed the problem of military spending and waste in the Big Bad U.S. of A., and why the F-35 — which costs more than $200 million per plane — exists for no reason besides spending money on crony capitalists who are politically well-connected.

[...]

But who’s left picking up the tab?

The fact that it is all made possible by the the American worker, who slaves away at his humdrum job to send a third of his income to the feds, is of course totally ignored on Memorial Day, Veterans day, or the other official days of Reverence Toward Government.

We might also mention that when tax revenue comes up short, as it always does, the central bank can be relied upon to make up the difference, thus ensuring that the gusher of federal money never stops.

And what happens to that money? Much of it is wasted on worthless military garbage like the F-35, and on politically powerful military contractors who produce such things, such as Lockheed Martin.



The discretionary allocation for defense spending MORE THAN COVERS ALL other sectors of the discretionary budget.

So, again, exactly why should ANYBODY be cheated out of their money more than they already are?

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Jul 24, 2015,
#12
MAYBE we should
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I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#14
On the topic of minimum wage, places like Seattle (who voluntarily upped their min wage) are experiencing a trend of people working less hours to counteract higher wages (making the same money as before but with less work) in order to maintain their qualification for financial assistance programs.
#15
Quote by Skullivan
On the topic of minimum wage, places like Seattle (who voluntarily upped their min wage) are experiencing a trend of people working less hours to counteract higher wages (making the same money as before but with less work) in order to maintain their qualification for financial assistance programs.

funny how incentives work

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#17
Raising the minimum wage relies on the silly idea that shitty rich people won't act like shitty rich people
PM me for newts
#18
Quote by StewieSwan
Raising the minimum wage relies on the silly idea that shitty rich people won't act like shitty rich people


qft
#19
wait so .5 percent of people will have trouble getting a job and the others will get out of poverty....
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#21
Quote by ErikLensherr
That's what I was saying then Neo's like "nah that's not true blah blah"

Same way rent controls help people who already have apartments but **** over anybody who's looking for one.

libtards I swear


It's amazing to me how incredibly dumb the Dutch are, even with phDs
.
#23
Quote by Fat Lard
It's amazing to me how incredibly dumb the Dutch are, even with phDs

smoked away they brain
#24
Quote by losing battle
wait so .5 percent of people will have trouble getting a job and the others will get out of poverty....

...how'd you figure that?

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#25
Quote by beadhangingOne
winner winner chicken dinner

mental mental chicken oriental
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#27
Raise the minimum wage proportionate to inflation but not 15 or a living wage that's stupid.
#29
Let's be real, guys. The minimum wage is $0 an hour. Even the Federal Government has interns working for it that make no money. It's bizarre how someone can make $7.25 an hour, or $0 an hour, but if they're paid a penny then a crime is being committed.
#30
Quote by captaincrunk
Is it not possible that the economic recession in 2008 played a role in reduced employment following the minimum wage increase of 2007?

The abstract from the cited source:

We estimate the minimum wage’s effects on low-skilled workers’ employment and
income trajectories. Our approach exploits two dimensions of the data we analyze. First, we compare workers in states that were bound by recent increases in the federal minimum wage to workers in states that were not. Second, we use 12 months of baseline data to divide low-skilled workers into a “target” group, whose baseline wage rates were directly affected, and a “within-state control” group with slightly higher baseline wage rates. Over three subsequent years, we find that binding minimum wage increases had significant, negative effects on the employment and income growth of targeted workers.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#31
Quote by Rossenrot
Let's be real, guys. The minimum wage is $0 an hour. Even the Federal Government has interns working for it that make no money. It's bizarre how someone can make $7.25 an hour, or $0 an hour, but if they're paid a penny then a crime is being committed.

how very seinfeldian of you.
#32
Quote by Xiaoxi
The abstract from the cited source:

I appreciate that but I'm sure you can imagine a well designed study that would show the recession as being the primary cause of lowered employment. And given that unemployment is as low as its been since early 2008 and we didn't lower minimum wage, I don't know that we can really say for certain that the higher minimum wage is keeping unemployment high. It's about as low as it was before the raise, now.

Anyway, even liberal economists tend to recognize that low paying jobs will suffer, the question is whether or not it's so bad that its not worth it.

On a side note, we also have to realize that due to technological innovation, not everyone will be able to work 50 hours a week doing something productive and valuable. We're going to have to reduce our working hours or increase public welfare spending. Increasing minimum wage generates more tax dollars while making labor more expensive and therefore making us use less of it. Win win if you ask me.
#34
Quote by Jackintehbox
how very seinfeldian of you.


It makes no sense Jerry! NO SENSE!
#35
Quote by bradulator at #33516235
$10 minimum wage and a universal basic income vote me 4 president


#36
Quote by beadhangingOne
?

Are you saying the tax code does not need to be revised, simplified and have loopholes eliminated?

No, I was just providing another childhood rhyme involving chicken.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#37
So the main pieces of evidence used in that column are a non-peer reviewed source and a survey of experts. Those don't seem like great sources. Furthermore, after wading into a lot of the minimum wage lit the conclusions are reflective of the organization that publishes them. Right-leaning think tanks (like NBER) tend to say in their reviews and studies that minimum wage has negative impacts, whereas left leaning think tanks (like CEPR) tend to say they have positive impacts.

Besides the political bias, I have seen lines of studies that use the same date but with different statistical methodologies come to different conclusions regarding this specific topic.

What I have drawn from most of the studies I have read though is that it is that raising the minimum wage is unlikely to have more than a +/-1% impact on the employment rate, and employment goes down, this usually rises again once the markets adjust to the new expenditures. Also, the real cost of raising wages is often mitigated by marginal increases in the prices of commodities, but the markets usually over-corrects to increase relative profits (i.e., if McDonald's needs to increase prices by X cents per item to recoup a minimum wage increase of $Y, they will increase by X+Z cents per item).
#38
Quote by ErikLensherr
That's what I was saying then Neo's like "nah that's not true blah blah"

Same way rent controls help people who already have apartments but **** over anybody who's looking for one.

libtards I swear

Other research that show that it doesn't necessarily. I am on vacation but there are plenty of meta-studies around that you can look at. I am not saying this cause I want minimum wage to go up. I was genuinely surprised when I saw the studies myself. It's entirely counter-intuitive.

But obviously you have to account for the fact that the effect will depend on a million other things. If you take data from the great depression you are more likely to capture the combined effect of the depression and the increase in minimum wage rather than just the pure increase.
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
Last edited by Neo Evil11 at Jul 25, 2015,