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#1
You're making a jazz lead sheet, and you come across this chord:

|-1----
|-2----
|-0----
|-1----
|-0----
|------

What's the most correct way to name this? Would it be Ab7b5addb13? Key of d minor if it makes a difference.
#2
1. This is a better place for future requests.
2. A-Eb-G-C#-F... maybe A7b5(b13), but then again chords have many names. Context would be good.
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Quote by Jet Penguin
lots of flirting with the other key without confirming. JUST LIKE THEIR LOVE IN THE MOVIE OH DAMN.
Quote by Hail
you're acting like you have perfect pitch or something
#3
where've you been madcap

but yeah just A7b5(b13) would probably suffice
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#4
Hi Madcap,

If you've a group of intervals together,you can look for the strongest interval present ... there's a hierarchy. If that strongest interval then crops up several times in that group , take the lowest. And finally, take the root of that interval as the overall root. (the b5 doesn't have a root ... it's ambiguous. the rest do. Also, with a stack of three 4th's, there's no obvious root across the stack).

The hierarchy (strong to weak) is 5,4, 3,b6, b3,6, 2,b7, b2,7
root ------------------------------ b t b t b t t b t b

(b: lower pitch of interval is root. t: upper pitch of interval is root)

See William Russo (Jazz composition and orchestration) or Paul Hindemith (The craft of musical composition).

Strongest interval in your case: maj 3rd from Eb to G. Analyse from there ...

Eb 9b5. (b5 in bass).

play top 4 notes to hear more clearly.

cheers, Jerry
Last edited by jerrykramskoy at Jul 27, 2015,
#6
I agree with jerry and Jota_lou.
I don't think you need to specify "b5" if you use a slash symbol. "Eb9/A" covers it well enough, IMO. There would be some ambiguity about a possible Bb there, but I suspect most players would know well enough to leave out the Bb when there's an A in the bass.

"A7b5(b13)" is correct, of course, it's just longer . In general, the shortest possible chord symbol is usually (not always) the best.

BTW, the rule I like about identifying chords is to try to arrange the notes in a stack of 3rds if possible (allowing for possible missing notes). The bottom one would then be the root.
Going by that rule, you still get two choices:
A C# Eb G F = 1 3 b5 b7 - - b13
Eb G Bbb Db F = 1 3 b5 b7 9.
You might just argue the "Eb" one works better because you don't need to go as far as 13 to explain all the notes. But then A is the bass note....
(Normally a perfect 5th helps dictate a chord root, but there isn't one of those here, of course.)

In fact, you get more than two choices. There's also:
F A C# Eb G = 1 3 #5 b7 9 = F9#5.
Only thing against that (maybe) is that F is the top voice.

But this does highlight the fact that what we have here is a wholetone chord.

As Jet Penguin has pointed out elsewhere (and may well do so here...), wholetone chords are interchangeable. There are really only two wholetone chords, depending on which of the two wholetone scales one goes for.
IOW, any harmonisation of the wholetone scale works pretty much like any other one. They can all resolve in one of six directions - although naturally some voicings will work better in one direction than others (due to voice-leading).

Test it with this chord. In theory it could resolve to D, E, F#, Ab, Bb or C (major or minor in each case).
I just tried it and it does (maybe best to F#/Gb because of that top voice).
Last edited by jongtr at Jul 27, 2015,
#7
I'd write chord alterations like b5 no matter if that's in the bass or not.

Again, OP needs to give more context; D minor by itself is insufficient.
#9
Not necessarily.

x01021 -> x02020 -> xx0211 is valid.

We need more context.
Glad to cross paths with you on this adventure called life
Quote by Jet Penguin
lots of flirting with the other key without confirming. JUST LIKE THEIR LOVE IN THE MOVIE OH DAMN.
Quote by Hail
you're acting like you have perfect pitch or something
#10
Context is that it's functioning as a V and goes straight to i9 (d minor). The f resolves to e.

Really my main issue is more how to write it. Since the f is over an octave from the bass, it's safe to assume it's a flat 13 and not a flat 6. Would I write addb13, or parenthesis? Etc.
Last edited by The Madcap at Jul 27, 2015,
#11
Two chords is not enough context either. Is it a released song or something?

It really could be an Eb9b5/A, some sort of tritone substitution.
Glad to cross paths with you on this adventure called life
Quote by Jet Penguin
lots of flirting with the other key without confirming. JUST LIKE THEIR LOVE IN THE MOVIE OH DAMN.
Quote by Hail
you're acting like you have perfect pitch or something
#12
Quote by NeoMvsEu
Two chords is not enough context either. Is it a released song or something?

It really could be an Eb9b5/A, some sort of tritone substitution.
It's functioning as a V to i, it's not a tritone substitute. But regardless...

'Round Midnight. Teaching it to my high school students. We're doing the Amy Winehouse version, which goes from Bb7 to A7b5(b13) (if that's how you call it) to Dm9. Yes I know this track is originally in Eb minor, and Winehouse's version is in C#.
#13
Ugh, transposition.

I just hear A7(b13), honestly; guitarist playing something like 4x455x.
Glad to cross paths with you on this adventure called life
Quote by Jet Penguin
lots of flirting with the other key without confirming. JUST LIKE THEIR LOVE IN THE MOVIE OH DAMN.
Quote by Hail
you're acting like you have perfect pitch or something
#14
Lazily, you could call it A7alt, which easily identifies which extensions and alterations to make. "alt" is a pretty easy way of saying that you can use both the # and b 5. It's basically V - i using as many half step resolutions as possible.

This being jazz, you don't always have to specify which extensions to use on a dominant unless you actually need them present for melodic/voice leading purposes. The guy backing Amy Winehouse likely did not have that chord indicated exactly, s/he just played the A7 that way because it made sense in context. Depending how advanced your students are, that's a whole lesson in itself.

Nitpick: I wouldn't voice that chord with open strings. For sake of consistent timbre and straightforward voice leading, fretted notes are much more typical.
Last edited by cdgraves at Jul 28, 2015,
#15
Quote by NeoMvsEu
Not necessarily.

x01021 -> x02020 -> xx0211 is valid.

We need more context.


The chord root is deterministic from just the one chord, with few exceptions that I mentioned earlier. Check out the theorists I mentioned.

A clearer example would be with how "A11" is voiced. Typical voicings:

x 3
3 3
4 4
5 5
x x
5 5

The strongest interval in first voicing is maj3rd, whose root is lower of the interval. sO, get G as root, and this chord is G/A (G is chord root). In second voicing, strongest interval is p4, again with G as root of that interval. Again, G/A (G is chord root)

However, with this voicing

x
3
4
5
7
5

Strongest interval is a p5, and its root here is A. This is an A11.

Admittedly, this is being pedantic, but you can really hear the difference, and also this understanding of interval heirarchy and interval roots explains why some inversions fail (the chord root changes) ... so it's worthwhile knowledge ... not just dry theory.

cheers, Jerry
#16
The chord was misspelled. The way I wrote it, the misspelling could simply have been a double suspension without context.

Chords do not exist in a guitar vacuum while still in the realm of functional harmony. They can be interpreted in different ways based on the orchestral context.

While the guitar was playing 4x455x, Amy sang E-E\D#, giving the fifth. It was clearly meant to be G#7(b13), not any notion of D#/Eb.

I know my theory and aural skills levels fine, thank you very much.
Glad to cross paths with you on this adventure called life
Quote by Jet Penguin
lots of flirting with the other key without confirming. JUST LIKE THEIR LOVE IN THE MOVIE OH DAMN.
Quote by Hail
you're acting like you have perfect pitch or something
#17
Quote by jerrykramskoy
The chord root is deterministic from just the one chord, with few exceptions that I mentioned earlier. Check out the theorists I mentioned.

A clearer example would be with how "A11" is voiced. Typical voicings:

x 3
3 3
4 4
5 5
x x
5 5

The strongest interval in first voicing is maj3rd, whose root is lower of the interval. sO, get G as root, and this chord is G/A (G is chord root). In second voicing, strongest interval is p4, again with G as root of that interval. Again, G/A (G is chord root)

However, with this voicing

x
3
4
5
7
5

Strongest interval is a p5, and its root here is A. This is an A11.

Admittedly, this is being pedantic, but you can really hear the difference, and also this understanding of interval heirarchy and interval roots explains why some inversions fail (the chord root changes) ... so it's worthwhile knowledge ... not just dry theory.

cheers, Jerry


Maybe you should just learn to not use lousy voicings.

Also forum posts aren't emails, so why do you sign them?

Quote by NeoMvsEu
Chords do not exist in a guitar vacuum while still in the realm of functional harmony. They can be interpreted in different ways based on the orchestral context.


Like if I'm the bassist and I'm walking A-C#-E-G under Jerry's silly voicing it's still an A whether he likes it or not.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
Last edited by theogonia777 at Jul 28, 2015,
#18
Quote by theogonia777
Like if I'm the bassist and I'm walking A-C#-E-G under Jerry's silly voicing it's still an A whether he likes it or not.


You guys don't even need my help.

OP, its A7b5 (b13)
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#19
Quote by theogonia777
Maybe you should just learn to not use lousy voicings.

Also forum posts aren't emails, so why do you sign them?


Like if I'm the bassist and I'm walking A-C#-E-G under Jerry's silly voicing it's still an A whether he likes it or not.


In your example, you've gone and changed the intervals involved and added the missing 5th in your bass line, right? So, yes, we then have the A11. Not all intervals have to come from the one instrument, right? What I said is correct as I described. I don't make this stuff up for the sake of it.

As for signing, that's my call.

cheers, Jerry

(p.s the G/A voicing is very widely used by guitarists ... so what's your choice of chord voicings for an 11 chord?)
Last edited by jerrykramskoy at Jul 28, 2015,
#20
To be fair, the A7 bassline was meant to be over x01021 (more rightly 5x566x transposed).
Glad to cross paths with you on this adventure called life
Quote by Jet Penguin
lots of flirting with the other key without confirming. JUST LIKE THEIR LOVE IN THE MOVIE OH DAMN.
Quote by Hail
you're acting like you have perfect pitch or something
#21
I like voicings that actually have the important chord tones in them that define the harmony of the intended chord so I use voicings based on that principle.
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#22
There's no way that G/A is a G chord.

That's A9sus4, not Gadd9 with the 9 in the bass. Tensions in the bass ARE the roots.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#23
^easier for the common folk to write something that by default contains all the tones needed and only those tones
#24
Well sure. That's the whole issue in itself. The chords you play don't change whats on the page, they work OVER it.

Now if the band is clearly playing Gadd9, then yeah, that chords a Gadd9. But if that chord is ALL thats happening musically, its the A9sus4.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#25
Quote by Jet Penguin
There's no way that G/A is a G chord.

That's A9sus4, not Gadd9 with the 9 in the bass. Tensions in the bass ARE the roots.


Well, I guess you know a lot better than some of the celebrated composers / theorists of the last century. I';m not going to bother arguing anymore ... believe what you like. However I am interested where you got taught that tensions in the bass are the roots?
#26
Quote by Jet Penguin
There's no way that G/A is a G chord.

That's A9sus4, not Gadd9 with the 9 in the bass. Tensions in the bass ARE the roots.
I agree, although (if the E is missing) I'd rather see it called "G/A", just for simplicity's sake. Doesn't mean A is not the functional root of the chord.

And actually if the E was in the chord, then Em7/A is OK with me. I understand it as A9sus4 in effect. But then I can also see the sense in calling it the latter, for that very reason...
#27
Quote by jerrykramskoy
some of the celebrated composers / theorists of the last century.


Pretty sure none of them played guitar as their main instrument if at all.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#28
Quote by theogonia777
Pretty sure none of them played guitar as their main instrument if at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_T%C3%A1rrega
I know it's only one guy, but even if there were none that's not an argument against jerry's point (or even in favour of Jet's). Chord theory is independent of instrument. Piano players know about chords too!

The issue is what defines the "root" of a chord - and there could well be changing views over time about what that means, or ought to mean.
#29
A non-guitarist wouldn't use a silly voicing like Jerry's. Also your example wasn't really from the last century.

To answer Jerry's earlier question now that i have a guitar in front of me, 555655, with the option of dropping tbe 1st, 2nd, and 6th strings (your 1 and 5), would make the most sense for how I would voice. Clearly includes the important notes (A, C#, G, D) to define the intended harmony and it's an easy shape.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#30
"G/A" is quite common in (piano) sheet music transcriptions nowadays.

I've looked through many of them, though, and they're just... not as accurate as you'd think official ones should be. (Where are the transcription jobs?)

Anyways, I played a lot of them while playing pit piano for Fame: The Musical (high school... it's also really common in 80's/90's music), and I'd have to agree that they're dominant function chords in contexts like:

Em7 G/A D

https://youtu.be/TPTumogX8us?t=1m19s
instrumental before chorus:
Eb Gm/D Cm Eb/F
Chorus pick-up is F

Even better, "bring on tomorrow, we can't wait" -
Bb | Bb/C | F Eb/F | Bb F |
post-chorus interlude
Bb/C | Bb/C C |


It's definitely easier to read G/A for pianists (oh! G triad in right hand, A in the bass. How transparent.), but A9sus4 keeps the function in mind, even if the E isn't always played.
#31
I'm gonna let the passive aggressiveness slide.

The concept of tensions in the bass functioning as roots isn't some weird prescriptive jazz dogma, it's literally a description of how the harmony sounds.

I challenge you to play this chord x 5 5 5 5 x and tell me you hear C and not D as the root.

Or how about this one? 0 x 6 5 4 3 ? Do you REALLY hear Ab as the root? Really?

What about Am7/F ? There's no way A is the root of that chord.

That to me, is akin to claiming you hear C - Am - F - G as being in four different keys.

Now granted, as I've said before. I can USE chords, like that first one, over other chords. I can play that C/D over a C chord, and have a cool 9th in the bass thing going on.

But by itself, that chord is, and will always be some kind of D chord. Context, Context, Context, Context, Application, and more Context.

Look, I'm by no means stuck up, I will be the first to admit when I'm wrong, but you aren't just implying I'm mistaken, rather the entire nature of tertian harmony with respect to chord building is mistaken, which I can't just get behind

But hey, apparently you know a lot better than the celebrated composers/theorists of the last century.

To each their own, I suppose.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#32
Quote by theogonia777
A non-guitarist wouldn't use a silly voicing like Jerry's.
Silly how? The ones I saw look like great voicings for A9sus4, A11, G/A, whatever you want to call it.
Quote by theogonia777
Also your example wasn't really from the last century.
Haha! Ya got me. I'm still living in the 20th....
Quote by theogonia777

To answer Jerry's earlier question now that i have a guitar in front of me, 555655, with the option of dropping tbe 1st, 2nd, and 6th strings (your 1 and 5), would make the most sense for how I would voice. Clearly includes the important notes (A, C#, G, D) to define the intended harmony and it's an easy shape.
Well, it certainly fits the bill for a complete literal A11 chord. Its just that in my experience (which comfortaby straddles both centuries, although inevitably weighted towards the last), "A11" has always been understood as shorthand for "A9sus4".
I do realise a certain jazz theorist considers major 3rds allowable extensions for a sus chord - but he'd still call it "A9sus", even with a C# on top. (The C# would not of course be voiced below the D, and FWIW I think your voicing sounds fine, although I wouldn't find many occasions to use it myself.)
#33
Theo's chord is quartal-ish too; any note can be the root depending on application.

That could be A D G C# or E chords, context pending.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#34


The first two minutes.

(Sorry Jet, I know you don't like him. I just thought it was good bass wisdom ;P )
Glad to cross paths with you on this adventure called life
Quote by Jet Penguin
lots of flirting with the other key without confirming. JUST LIKE THEIR LOVE IN THE MOVIE OH DAMN.
Quote by Hail
you're acting like you have perfect pitch or something
#35
As far as I know, the only way to make a bass tension sound like a non-root is to resolve strongly to the chord in the upper voices. Accenting a non-chord tone in the bass will likely just confuse the listener unless they have a reason to hear it otherwise.

That said, I'm sure there are many contexts in which a non-chord tone in the bass is labeled as a slash chord simply for purposes of communicating, even if it's actually supposed to sound like rooted on that note. You could, for example, call something just G/A, even though the root is actually A, because it tells a guitarist something much more practical than A9 11 (no 3, no 5).
#36
^Exactly my point.

Chord members other than 1 3 5 7 in the bass are actually the root of the chord, due to the nature of how we hear tertian chords.

Those chords can be USED in a variety of ways, including situations that seemingly contradict the first statement.

A great example being Am/D.

D is an 11 against Am, ergo, this is some type of D chord, as a tension in the bass IS the root.

We get: D A C E = D7sus2

Now, there are plenty of non Dsus ways to use that chord. It's an Am11 voicing with the 11 in the bass. It's also a Dm9 voicing without the 3rd. Etc, etc.

But that doesn't change the fact that that chord will always be a D chord by itself.

Think about it like triads. I can use a C major triad over a G chord, but to imply that the root this structure:

C E G

is the pitch G is erroneous and misleading.

In other news, I know what this weeks let's talk jazz is going to be about.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#37
Quote by theogonia777
A non-guitarist wouldn't use a silly voicing like Jerry's. Also your example wasn't really from the last century.

To answer Jerry's earlier question now that i have a guitar in front of me, 555655, with the option of dropping tbe 1st, 2nd, and 6th strings (your 1 and 5), would make the most sense for how I would voice. Clearly includes the important notes (A, C#, G, D) to define the intended harmony and it's an easy shape.


Why are you discussing A7, when my example was nothing to do with that?

You even tried playing G/A (as voiced) and hear what it sounds like? You any idea how many chord books that turns up in? You any idea how idea how popular the voicing of G/A etc is ... used in loads of tunes, guitar based or otherwise.

And as for whether theorists/composers can play guitar as to whether they should be considered or ignored is the stupidest statement I have ever heard from anyone regarding music.
#38
Quote by Jet Penguin
I'm gonna let the passive aggressiveness slide.

The concept of tensions in the bass functioning as roots isn't some weird prescriptive jazz dogma, it's literally a description of how the harmony sounds.

I challenge you to play this chord x 5 5 5 5 x and tell me you hear C and not D as the root.

Or how about this one? 0 x 6 5 4 3 ? Do you REALLY hear Ab as the root? Really?

What about Am7/F ? There's no way A is the root of that chord.

.


Jet,

I'll explain this one more time ... and answer you points above.

When there is collection of intervals played together, apart from a very few cases, one interval has more weight, and that interval's root is the root of the collection. I assume you're ok with the concept of interval roots (which weirdly isn't taught much).

The critical point is to examine all the interval combinations present, from each member of the collection to all the other members.

So, it's a bit tedious, but usually it's pretty quick visually.

Next, if the same interval crops up more than once, the lowest one is chosen for consideration, and the others of that same type are ruled out. Dispersion across different octaves is treated as though in same octave.

So, you'll end up with one potential candidate for each interval type present in that mix.

Finally, there is a hierarchy across the interval types for which "wins". Of all the intervals, the p5 is the top of the hierarchy.

As I mentioned in my original message, there are a very few exceptions to this, and the exceptions include when identical 3rds (e.g. E G# G# B#, or E G G Bb) or p4ths are stacked (e.g. E A ... A D). Here there is no clear root.

There is also disagreement with theorists, with p4ths, whether the ambiguity only occurs with a stack of 2 4ths, and that when 3 or more p4ths are stacked, then the lowest one wins. Personally, I agree with this (lowest one wins) ... that's how I hear it.


So, you can look for a p5 being formed ANYWHERE in the collection. It may occur multiple times ... in that case, you then take the lowest pitched one. This is often enough to do the job.

Let's take your example of Am7 / F first.

I've used * for bottom pitch of p5, and + for top pitch. So ...

1 0 2 0 1 0
* - - - + - <==== this the winner, the lowest p5 present. Hence root is F.
- * + - - -
- * - - - +

I guess I must have been unclear in my original explanation for how this analysis works, for you to think "A" would come out as the root.

Next, your first example, x 5 5 5 5 x, the lowest 4th is D,G ... and the root of that (for me) is G. (the upper pitch in a p4 is the root ... and before sus4's spring to mind, remember what other intervals are present which would rule out the p4 as the winner interval anyway). I can hear that quite clearly.


Lastly, 0 - 6 5 4 3 .... I certainly don't hear the bass E as the root. I do hear it as a causing dissonance. And yes, I do hear Ab as the root. For me the Abmaj7 sound stands out more than the E interfering with it. But, great voicing ... I like that.

So ... yeah, I was kind of dubious when I first came across this concept, but having tried it several times, and then reaffirmed the predicted root by getting someone to play that (and the other pitches present, one at a time), it works (for me) ... but it really does take critical listening. And of course, all of this is down to perception and cognitive responses, which takes us into statistics on who picks out what in psychology experiments around music.

We once ran an experiment over on Tom Hess's forum, on precisely this (after me discussing this) ... where the majority (of a huge :-) sample of 5 or 6 people (??) heard the predicted root, and one didn't. It was actually his idea to do the poll ... and credit to him, he accepted the result, although it didn't change his perception of the voicing in question).

The point is, the root is entirely dependent on the voicing ... miss bits out, or adds bits in, and the root can unintentionally change. Why does that matter? Root progressions.

cheers, Jerry
Last edited by jerrykramskoy at Jul 30, 2015,
#39
Quote by jerrykramskoy
Why are you discussing A7, when my example was nothing to do with that?

And as for whether theorists/composers can play guitar as to whether they should be considered or ignored is the stupidest statement I have ever heard from anyone regarding music.


Well... considering that we had been discussing A11... I thought an A11 chord seemed reasonable. Composers that don't play guitar don't use guitar voicings. I don't know what's so hard about that. Have you read any of your own posts?

But no sign off is an improvement. That's the most important thing.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#40
Jerry, I'm seeing the nature of our disagreement now.

I agree with you that when you go by intervals (using your method or by rearranging in a stack of thirds) that, ostensibly, the roots are what they are. It's logical that C/D just be some Cadd9 inversion, which it is.

However, what I have been referring to (which was probably less clear) is how those chords tend to behave in harmonic contexts, and thus naming their roots due to their function and behavior.

Using the P5 method, it is obvious that the root of C/D is C, and again, it's Cadd9, with the 9 in the bass. This is only logical and makes perfect sense.

However, stacking it in thirds would yield Em7#5, a different harmony completely.

And again, none of that matters if you look at the chord as it most likely behaves, which is D9sus4.

If we slid that chord (C/D) D C E G up an inversion and made E D G C I wouldn't call that second chord D9sus4 in a contextless situation. That's Cadd9 for sure.

But when you put the tension in the bass, it tends to re-structure the harmony so that the tension is the root, as has been demonstrated not only by me but by pretty much every use of hybrid chords ever.

Here's an example of where you most often see that hybrid chord in context:

Am7 - C/D - Gmaj7

If we analyze C/D as Em7#5 or Cadd9, these are not accurate reflections of how the chord sounds in context. In this situation, and the great majority of hybrid chord situations, the bass not is the root, leaving us with some kind of D chord.

It just so happens ( by no coincidence) that D9sus4 is the most accurate descriptor here with both regards to the chord root and its behavior. This progression is a simple II-V-I in G major, NOT II-IV-I or II-VI-I.

It's entirely possible that your ears hear II-IV or II-VI, but while I can entertain that idea, I don't see it or agree with it as the correct analysis of the musical behavior of that passage.

This doesn't change the simplest explanation/name of the chord, in which case you are totally correct. But the easiest thing to name the chord, and the name which accurately reflects how the chord is behaving are not always the same thing, as shown above.

TLDR: I agree with you but we aren't talking about entirely the same thing.

P.S. By themselves, I hear those three chords I posted as D9sus4 (or MAYBE Dm11 or Cadd9, context is king), Emaj7#5 (#9), and Fmaj9.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
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