#1
Do you guys consider taking ideas/characteristics from songs and putting them together into a new song creative or ripoff?

I'm not talking about taking a single idea from one song. I'm talking about characteristics from quite a few other songs. I got this tune I'm writing and I note that I keep thinking like ''Hmmm.. this would sound good if it sounded a bit like song A and maybe in the intro song B''. I'm really thinking of what sound I'm going after relative to songs I listen too for the first time.

Now I don't know what you think. I'm not seeking for some kind of approval/dissapproval. Just tell me, do you consider it ripping of or being creative with what someone else has to offer.

To describe some more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzZvGqpmA9k
I ''took'' the intro of this song. I played different (power) chords in a similair fashion (1 bar each power chord and letting them ring). And I'm thinking of a similair sounding tapping lick to go along with it (one short tapping lick repeated over different chords).

I know the end result will sound a lot like the whitesnake intro.

I also use a lot of stuff in the song which I wrote without thinking about it.

I'm curious about your opinions, I think this is very much open for discussion and speculation.
#2
If its creative it's creative.

If its a ripoff, it's a ripoff.

/thread.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#3
Quote by Jet Penguin
If its creative it's creative.

If its a ripoff, it's a ripoff.

/thread.


But would you class as ripoff or creative?

I'm really curious. I think I'm somewhere in between creative and ripoff.
#4
^

I can't tell just from that description we have to hear it.

Besides, if all you did was play a series of power chords for one bar each with or without the tapping, you've ripped off WAY more than Mr. Vai. You've ripped off almost everything.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#5
Quote by Jet Penguin
^

I can't tell just from that description we have to hear it.

Besides, if all you did was play a series of power chords for one bar each with or without the tapping, you've ripped off WAY more than Mr. Vai. You've ripped off almost everything.



I'd be glad to let you hear it. If only it was finished and recorded. It will probably still take quite a bit for me to finish this.
#7
Quote by liampje
But would you class as ripoff or creative?

I'm really curious. I think I'm somewhere in between creative and ripoff.
Depends how recognisable it is.

If a creative re-interpretation of someone else's song is recognisable, it's a rip-off (if you're claiming it as yours).
If a ripoff is not recognisable, then it's your creation.

There is another aspect, of course, which is copyright and plagiarism. You can be highly "creative" with borrowed elements, but might still fall foul of copyright law.

Of course, there's still a grey area, where recognisability is subjective. In copyright terms, it depends (AFAIK) whether the appeal of your (re)creation is dependent on what it takes from the tunes you stole from. IOW, if you're selling your tune on the back of someone else's. If your creation has its own appeal over and above any recognisable fragments from elsewhere, you're probably safe. But don't quote me on that.
(There was a notorious recent copyright case over Blurred Lines, which was considered to have broken a Marvin Gaye copyright, even though all they "borrowed" was the rhythmic groove. Normally copyright is only concerned with melody and lyrics.)

Like Jet says, we'd need to hear what you come up with in the end, but your brief description sounds different enough. (If your chords are different, then it doesn't matter if the rhythm is the same. And vice versa, btw.)

It's worth saying that all songwriters steal, but not always in a calculated way, and usually from lots of different sources. They steal a ton of stuff from everywhere, but it emerges in their songs in brand new combinations, usually with only vague hints as to where the elements might have originated. The best - most "original" - songwriters are those who have stolen from more people than anyone else.
#8
What you are doing is called "being influenced".

Or maybe it's not. We need to hear it. But if you are just writing a song that has strong Whitesnake influences, it's not a rip off.

It depends on the end result. Sometimes the influences are "hidden" in the song, and it becomes something pretty different. Sometimes it's a bit more obvious - you can hear that the song was clearly influenced by an artist/a song, but it still sounds different. Sometimes it's too obvious, and that's when I would call it a rip off.


But yeah, you don't need to treat every song you write as something you would put on an album. Not every song needs to be released. You can write it just for the sake of writing a song. If it sounds too similar to another song, just don't release it. You can borrow as much as you want from other artists. You can write songs just for yourself.

But yeah, if the rhythm and the chords you use are different, and also, the tapping lick sounds different, I think it will sound pretty different. Sustained chords and a tapping lick over it is not something Whitesnake invented.


BTW, the intro reminded me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlexYog2kZA


Well, I doubt it was a coincidence. Steve Vai was in Whitesnake back then.
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Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Jul 30, 2015,
#9
Quote by MaggaraMarine

But yeah, you don't need to treat every song you write as something you would put on an album. Not every song needs to be released. You can write it just for the sake of writing a song. If it sounds too similar to another song, just don't release it. You can borrow as much as you want from other artists. You can write songs just for yourself.


I wish I was able to ''release'' a song other than upload it to youtube. But I'll figure out a way and let you hear the intro in a couple of days.
#10
Quote by liampje
I wish I was able to ''release'' a song other than upload it to youtube. But I'll figure out a way and let you hear the intro in a couple of days.

Soundcloud.

https://soundcloud.com
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Jul 30, 2015,
#11
Mag, Sweet Lady Luck was written when Vai was with them. I don't think you can rip yourself off.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#13
Quote by Jet Penguin
Mag, Sweet Lady Luck was written when Vai was with them. I don't think you can rip yourself off.

Yeah, of course. It was just something I noticed.

Yeah, that's not ripping off, that's recycling an idea.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#14
You can't plagiarize yourself. There's my advice for the day.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#16
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Just say you're a postmodernist and call it a day.

what if the day is something more simple, and represented as sub-day?
superman is killing himself tonight
#17
Quote by Baby Joel
what if the day is something more simple, and represented as sub-day?

Don't we call those hours?
#18
Quote by Jet Penguin
Mag, Sweet Lady Luck was written when Vai was with them. I don't think you can rip yourself off.


Chances are he didn't write majority of the song. But he's been carrying that tapping idea since far before whitesnake . I've seen it in concert footage of him performing with alcatrazz.
#19
whitesnake stole all their music anyway

their saving grace being that their musical genre was based on stealing music and ideas and it actually made money in the 80s

now the only new glam band that's financially viable is steel panther and they're a fucking parody group

so the more important question is why would you want to copy whitesnake
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Last edited by Hail at Jul 31, 2015,
#21
I think anything you base an original tune off that is from someone else is basically a ripoff,unless it's a very original cover or you credit them for the inspiration. .
#22
Quote by Tempoe
I think anything you base an original tune off that is from someone else is basically a ripoff,unless it's a very original cover or you credit them for the inspiration. .


i wouldn't go that far, but at the same time, you have to wonder: how unoriginal can you be?

if this was the first song you wrote for your album, you're setting a really bad precedent for yourself. even in the scope of an album, a ripped intro is like 5% of the finished product. that's a lot of plagiarism. how would you be able to live with yourself?

and what if you get to the second song and realize, holy shit, i really am unoriginal, but like, i'm already set on this idea, lets steal the chorus from some poison b-side and call it good. no, trust me, it's fine, in for a penny, in for a pound, even though now 10+% of my album is absolutely in no way representative of my abilities as an artist and as a human being because i am a miserable, horrible person who deserves to be gagged and whipped by mistress until the end of all the alls

is that who you want to be liam
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You win. I'm done here.
#23
Quote by Hail
i wouldn't go that far, but at the same time, you have to wonder: how unoriginal can you be?

if this was the first song you wrote for your album, you're setting a really bad precedent for yourself. even in the scope of an album, a ripped intro is like 5% of the finished product. that's a lot of plagiarism. how would you be able to live with yourself?

and what if you get to the second song and realize, holy shit, i really am unoriginal, but like, i'm already set on this idea, lets steal the chorus from some poison b-side and call it good. no, trust me, it's fine, in for a penny, in for a pound, even though now 10+% of my album is absolutely in no way representative of my abilities as an artist and as a human being because i am a miserable, horrible person who deserves to be gagged and whipped by mistress until the end of all the alls

is that who you want to be liam


Well, no.

But really, I was playing my song and it popped up that an intro similair to that song would sound great with it. but if I'd say that in a way like: ''this would sound great with an intro with semibreve powerchords and a tapping run worth a semibreve that would be repeated over all those chords.'' wouldn't that sound less stolen?

Still a lot of the stuff I write is all made up from the top of my head.
#24
^ It really depends on what the tapping run sounds like. It also depends on what chords you use and what your arrangement is like.

It could sound stolen, but it could also sound original.

Your intro can be inspired by something but it can sound very different. Do you think it sounds very similar if you just listen to it? Sometimes only the songwriter knows where the part is from, and to the songwriter it may sound obvious. But if you ask anybody else, they will not be able to hear anything ripped off.


But yeah, you can always change the intro if you think it sounds too similar to the Whitesnake song. But yeah, first let us hear it.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#25
Quote by MaggaraMarine
^ It really depends on what the tapping run sounds like. It also depends on what chords you use and what your arrangement is like.

It could sound stolen, but it could also sound original.

Your intro can be inspired by something but it can sound very different. Do you think it sounds very similar if you just listen to it? Sometimes only the songwriter knows where the part is from, and to the songwriter it may sound obvious. But if you ask anybody else, they will not be able to hear anything ripped off.


But yeah, you can always change the intro if you think it sounds too similar to the Whitesnake song. But yeah, first let us hear it.


I recorded my amp playing my loop I created. I need to edot the video because my camera somehow only films audio on the right side. I'll edit it now and upload it to youtube.
#27
^ Yeah. The tapping lick is different, the chords are different, the rhythm is different. I of course hear similarities, but I think it's different enough. It also depends on how the song continues.

Also, I don't think a "tribute" to something is a bad thing.


If you think it sounds different enough, then it usually sounds different enough.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#28
Quote by MaggaraMarine
^ Yeah. The tapping lick is different, the chords are different, the rhythm is different. I of course hear similarities, but I think it's different enough. It also depends on how the song continues.

Also, I don't think a "tribute" to something is a bad thing.


If you think it sounds different enough, then it usually sounds different enough.


Still, stealing an idea with clearly the same sound isn't a bad thing to do in my opinion. *insert quote by famous musician telling that stealing ideas is great*.

Trust me, the song continues very differently, it contains more than 2 chords and doesnt end on a single note line.

The chords are , Bmin7no5|Gmaj7no5|Emin|F#7

They are not played statically, I jump around with different notes, the only thing that stays consistent is me chugging on the root note, except for the last one where I just play through the notes. And I'm not very sure on those chord names too, because of the whole playing different notes thing. Not sure how to look at those notes and regard them to the chord function.

Perhaps I'll randomly bump this thread after I finish everything (which will probably take a while.)

I'm planning on making this song my very first complete one; Written, recorded (Bass and Guitars, with drums and mastered (or a very bad attempted master).
#29
Quote by NeoMvsEu
Don't we call those hours?

but what's a sub-hour?
superman is killing himself tonight
#30
Quote by Baby Joel at #33528548
but what's a sub-hour?

Minutes, then seconds for sub-minutes? ;D
Glad to cross paths with you on this adventure called life
Quote by Jet Penguin
lots of flirting with the other key without confirming. JUST LIKE THEIR LOVE IN THE MOVIE OH DAMN.
Quote by Hail
you're acting like you have perfect pitch or something
#31
you would play a bugera jfc liam

and no it doesn't sound like the whitesnake song you mentioned. it only sounds like 3 songs out of every album released between the years 1984 and 1989

but yeah don't worry about people thinking you stole it, you're playing really out of time so maybe they'll think you're doing syncopation
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Last edited by Hail at Aug 2, 2015,
#32
Quote by Hail
you would play a bugera jfc liam

and no it doesn't sound like the whitesnake song you mentioned. it only sounds like 3 songs out of every album released between the years 1984 and 1989

but yeah don't worry about people thinking you stole it, you're playing really out of time so maybe they'll think you're doing syncopation


Try syncing a metronome @ 152 bpm, I did. And I know you can do it too.

Sure the tapping is a bit off, but I was trying to speed it up, because this is the tempo I want to go for. And if I sat here working on it for another day than it would've probably been straight in time. But I was only going for a global approach as I don't try to record something for a final take. This is the global idea. I entered a discussion and had to record it quickly because the discussion was running dead end without me posting such video.

And yes, I am playing a Bugera ''jfc''. They are amps for people that don't have a lot of money. People that attend university and don't have a full time job. Get it? I study. I can buy better equipment later. And untill then, this Bugera sounds bitchin'.

I'll stop responding to you now.
#33
i bet both my amps cost me less than yours
Quote by Kevätuhri
Hail isn't too edgy for posts, posts are not edgy enough for Hail.


Quote by UseYourThumb
You win. I'm done here.
#35
Quote by liampje
You looked at a €260 amplifier. Your amps are shit.


clearly not since both of mine are over 20 years old and still work
Quote by Kevätuhri
Hail isn't too edgy for posts, posts are not edgy enough for Hail.


Quote by UseYourThumb
You win. I'm done here.
#36
Oh, burn.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#37
Quote by Hail
clearly not since both of mine are over 20 years old and still work

Good for you. Did you apply inflation to the price of your amp? I was 15 when I bought that amp. I had to work a job at a €2,90 pay/hour to get it. So that's 90 hours of work next to doing school. And generally, everything made back in the 90's have better quality to it than nowadays.

My amp has lasted me about 4 years now, still works.

Someone close this thread.
#38
Hail has old amps and loses the gear battle by default. It's 2015 people. Use the technology.

Consider it done.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp