#1
Hey guys, I just got promoted *takes a bow* I work in a small record company, subsidiary company actually. Now my question is this, is it too much if I ask the management to give me some training regarding supervision of my staff. I know they have faith in me that is why they gave me the job but personally I want to improve my coaching skills especially now that I have 4-6 staff members to handle. I’ve been self-studying and after reading this article http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/6456-new-manager-tips.html I’m convinced that I really need a seminar/training regarding this. So what can you say guys? Is it a go or a no?
#2
If you don't ask, you won't get.

And if they say no, you can always look to some of the more reputable MOOCs for some help in that regard; most are free unless you want a certificate.
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#3
Hook me up wit dem digits?
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#4
No harm in asking for the training. Better that you do have it rather than "wing" it and have a higher chance of creating issues due to poor management that you have to waste energy fixing or get you in trouble with higher ups.
O.K.

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O__o
#5
Quote by slapsymcdougal
If you don't ask, you won't get.

And if they say no, you can always look to some of the more reputable MOOCs for some help in that regard; most are free unless you want a certificate.


So go to the mooks first and the moocs second?
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#6
Yea. **** that alphabetical order stuff.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#7
You should have "want(ed) to improve your coaching skills" BEFORE you were promoted. You don't train for the job you have, you train for the job you want. You should already be competent in your position, or you shouldn't be in it.

Sounds like the Peter Principle has caught up to you...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#8
Quote by Arby911
You should have "want(ed) to improve your coaching skills" BEFORE you were promoted. You don't train for the job you have, you train for the job you want. You should already be competent in your position, or you shouldn't be in it.

Sounds like the Peter Principle has caught up to you...



this is utter and complete bullshit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with training for the job you have. Of course you're not going to be perfect when you start a job.

Why do you think people with 30 year experience are better than people on their first year? You don't arrive fully trained on your first day

Why do you think management classes exist? Or certifications or adult/evening schools.


YES, I think you should ask your bosses for training. The worst that can happen is they'll say no but they'll still appreciate teh fact that you're willing to invest in your work.

I know that if one of my subordinates came asking for training, it would raise my esteem of them, even if I wasn't in a position to give it to them
#9
Any company worth their salt will encourage continual development of their employees. There's no point in standing still, after all. You'll probably find you have a lot of the skills required for the training you want - they probably wouldn't have promoted you otherwise. It's a case of refining, and as I said, development. No-one is a finished product in the workplace.
#10
Quote by flexiblemile
this is utter and complete bullshit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with training for the job you have. Of course you're not going to be perfect when you start a job.

Why do you think people with 30 year experience are better than people on their first year? You don't arrive fully trained on your first day

Why do you think management classes exist? Or certifications or adult/evening schools.


YES, I think you should ask your bosses for training. The worst that can happen is they'll say no but they'll still appreciate teh fact that you're willing to invest in your work.

I know that if one of my subordinates came asking for training, it would raise my esteem of them, even if I wasn't in a position to give it to them


Not really a forward-looking employee, are you?

Training after the fact is like a doctor going to medical school after starting a practice.

Of course I fully support ongoing / continuing education training, but training on how to manage people after you're already managing people is a bit late. Better late than never, of course, but the point remains. Any company that trains it's people after the fact has already failed the succession planning part of the quiz...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#11
Quote by Arby911


Training after the fact is like a doctor going to medical school after starting a practice.




No, it really isn't. no offense but that's an absolutely horrible comparison.

She never said she was incompetent or that she didn't know how to do her job. She expressed an interest in getting better. You're telling her that she's wrong for doing so and if she is already not perfect at her job she's shit out of luck and should just not make any more effort.
#12
Quote by flexiblemile
No, it really isn't. no offense but that's an absolutely horrible comparison.

She never said she was incompetent or that she didn't know how to do her job. She expressed an interest in getting better. You're telling her that she's wrong for doing so and if she is already not perfect at her job she's shit out of luck and should just not make any more effort.


No, I'm not. I'm not saying any of those things that you chose to see.

I said she SHOULD have wanted (and thus asked) for the training before the promotion. I stand by that.

I did NOT say she shouldn't ask for it now.

I said "competent", not perfect.

Huge difference....

And I certainly didn't say she shouldn't make any more effort, that's just stupid.

I also said this was a systemic failure as well as a personal error.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Jul 30, 2015,
#13
If you come across as an asshole, and one that only cares for himself, then your almost fit for the job.

If your also someone who comes across to suck dick, you also give me confidence in your loyalty.

I would only have to fear him taking over my position, for that I have to be nice to him, but keep him in check, which would require an asshole.

Welcome to game of assholes.

How far will you make it

But seriously, coaching is a good way to motivate your staff. If I were you, I wouldn't ask.

Asking is not decision making. Better get a cert and subtly show him it. It will show competence and/or strive for more. It will look more charming, but not too much cause then it will come across as threatening.

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(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 30, 2015,
#14
Quote by Arby911
No, I'm not. I'm not saying any of those things that you chose to see.

I said she SHOULD have wanted (and thus asked) for the training before the promotion. I stand by that.

I did NOT say she shouldn't ask for it now.

I said "competent", not perfect.

Huge difference....

And I certainly didn't say she shouldn't make any more effort, that's just stupid.

I also said this was a systemic failure as well as a personal error.



oh so there we go with the "I'm a big shot in my field, my advice is more important than yours" argument.

You realize that this is an internet forum, right? You can say anything you want on here. No one cares.

The simple fact is the OP asked if it was a good idea to ask for extra training to get better at her job. you answered "You should already be competent in your position, or you shouldn't be in it. "

This is not only unhelpful but can actually be detrimental to her.

By telling her that she reached her level of incompetence, you're being insulting and stunting her growth as an employee, a manager and also as a person.

Please god I hope you and your crabby old boomer friends retire soon. Your shitty attitude has no place on today's market
#15
Sorry, but if you don't know how to do your job you are by definition not competent. Doesn't mean you can't get that way after the fact, but that's not the best way to approach it.

And yes, I do know more about this than you do.

I think you're arguing just to be arguing.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#16
Yeah, it would have been ideal if TS had a management training prior to becoming a manager, but TS, I'd ask your management for any training options regardless. Your managers probably know that you haven't had any such training, and I assume they're also aware this is your first time as manager. I really doubt asking for ways to do your job as well as possible is going to reflect badly on you.

@Arby, I don't know the exact situation here, but there's a chance there was just a management spot that needed to be filled and TS was selected for that spot as the best candidate from the employees they had. In which case there wouldn't really be any time to ask for a training beforehand. I've seen it happen a few times.

EDIT: I should add that I'm assuming TS didn't bullshit her way to her position. Going from bullshitting one day to being honest about your shortcomings the next is very likely to reflect badly on you.
Last edited by ultimate-slash at Jul 30, 2015,
#17
I would have to agree^^

I'm on my meds so it must be true.

Although I'm not so sure after this post if the effects are max since I do agree with a fellow asshole.

Should I take one more or not?

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 30, 2015,
#19
Quote by ultimate-slash

@Arby, I don't know the exact situation here, but there's a chance there was just a management spot that needed to be filled and TS was selected for that spot as the best candidate from the employees they had. In which case there wouldn't really be any time to ask for a training beforehand. I've seen it happen a few times.


I completely agree, and noted that in the succession planning comment.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#20
Quote by Arby911
Sorry, but if you don't know how to do your job you are by definition not competent. Doesn't mean you can't get that way after the fact, but that's not the best way to approach it.

And yes, I do know more about this than you do.

I think you're arguing just to be arguing.



How did you figure out that she doesn't know how to do her job? It seems very clear from her post that she is doing a decent job but wants to get better.

Your vision is of either knowing how to do your job or not. That implies that you think that there is only one way to do a job which is very representative of people of a certain age. the "my way or the highway" mentality. As I mentionned, this is not how any modern business is run in the 21st century.


Also anyone that says bullshit like "And yes, I do know more about this than you do." are the ones that need to get some management training and acquire people skills. Maybe you should be the one asking your manager to get some onsite training.

You and your kind are old dinosaurs. You might still be strong in your own weird way but you are heading to extinction, without the shadow of a doubt
#21
Quote by ultimate-slash
Can I assume, judging by your posts, that you are very high right now?


I'm not sure.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#22
Quote by flexiblemile
How did you figure out that she doesn't know how to do her job? It seems very clear from her post that she is doing a decent job but wants to get better.

Your vision is of either knowing how to do your job or not. That implies that you think that there is only one way to do a job which is very representative of people of a certain age. the "my way or the highway" mentality. As I mentionned, this is not how any modern business is run in the 21st century.


Also anyone that says bullshit like "And yes, I do know more about this than you do." are the ones that need to get some management training and acquire people skills. Maybe you should be the one asking your manager to get some onsite training.

You and your kind are old dinosaurs. You might still be strong in your own weird way but you are heading to extinction, without the shadow of a doubt


I'm not sure if business has been any other way ever..

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#23
Quote by Arby911
I completely agree, and noted that in the succession planning comment.

Ah yes, missed that

I've been skim-reading car manuals 9 hours in a row, and now I seem to be having trouble switching back to reading full sentences again.
#24
Quote by flexiblemile
How did you figure out that she doesn't know how to do her job? It seems very clear from her post that she is doing a decent job but wants to get better.

Your vision is of either knowing how to do your job or not. That implies that you think that there is only one way to do a job which is very representative of people of a certain age. the "my way or the highway" mentality. As I mentionned, this is not how any modern business is run in the 21st century.


Also anyone that says bullshit like "And yes, I do know more about this than you do." are the ones that need to get some management training and acquire people skills. Maybe you should be the one asking your manager to get some onsite training.

You and your kind are old dinosaurs. You might still be strong in your own weird way but you are heading to extinction, without the shadow of a doubt


Hey, feel free to take offense and continue to throw insults around, won't change the fact that I know more about this than you do. I do find it amusing that you're telling me how business is run in the 21st century despite the probable fact that you don't, and haven't, ever run one...

I'm not trying to manage you, nor am I the one continuously tossing out insults, so I'm unconvinced that it's me that needs better people skills in this instance.

And you're still arguing just to be arguing. I'll let you defend against your own straw-men from here on out, I've no interest in it.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#25
Quote by Arby911
I do find it amusing that you're telling me how business is run in the 21st century despite the probable fact that you don't, and haven't, ever run one...



You know what they say about assuming things, right? Besides, the quality of someone's argument has nothing to do with the financial position of that person.

But to answer your non-question more directly, yes I am a business owner and yes I do manage people, and yes I am good at it. But that doesn't matter because the simple fact is that you gave horrible advice to someone at the start of their career and you refuse to see the error of your way because you're an arrogant asshat.

Enjoy your retirement because everyone else will enjoy seeing you leave.

EDIT: also this "And you're still arguing just to be arguing. I'll let you defend against your own straw-men from here on out, I've no interest in it." is called a cop out. Your argument is going nowhere because you're wrong so you feign disinterest and pretend to be above the opposing party
Last edited by flexiblemile at Jul 30, 2015,
#26
I went from dishwasher to chef de partie in 1.5 years I know best!

But meds. So this may or may not be relevant to the topic I see bickering everywhere. I'm more sane then ever, yet on meds.

It makes sensse, aaarghhh edit: I don't know anymore.

I hate meds.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jul 30, 2015,
#27
Quote by flexiblemile
You know what they say about assuming things, right? Besides, the quality of someone's argument has nothing to do with the financial position of that person.

But to answer your non-question more directly, yes I am a business owner and yes I do manage people, and yes I am good at it. But that doesn't matter because the simple fact is that you gave horrible advice to someone at the start of their career and you refuse to see the error of your way because you're an arrogant asshat.

Enjoy your retirement because everyone else will enjoy seeing you leave.

EDIT: also this "And you're still arguing just to be arguing. I'll let you defend against your own straw-men from here on out, I've no interest in it." is called a cop out. Your argument is going nowhere because you're wrong so you feign disinterest and pretend to be above the opposing party


I said nothing about your financial position, yet another strawman.

Since you are an owner/manager, my apologies for an incorrect assumption.

I gave good advice, you misconstrued it, and continue to do so.

Have a nice day.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#28
good advice? You told a young manager that she had reached her level of incompetence when she inquired about further training.

That is not good advice. That's not even bad advice. That is nothing more than a personal insult.
#29
Quote by flexiblemile
good advice? You told a young manager that she had reached her level of incompetence when she inquired about further training.

That is not good advice. That's not even bad advice. That is nothing more than a personal insult.


As per her own post, she has risen to her own level of incompetence at this point.

She SHOULD have requested / gotten the appropriate training earlier. It would have been beneficial for both her and the company.

I stand behind both of those.

Neither of those mean she's in a static situation or that future training is useless, which is what you seem to think I was saying, even though I didn't address either. (Perhaps I should have, it would have saved us both some time.)

If you're looking for me to say things that make people feel good about themselves but aren't true, that's simply not going to happen. Sometimes the truth feels like an insult, but it's still the truth. The trick is to move forward with a plan to NOT make it the truth any more.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#30
so one of your own employees comes to see you and tells you that he/she doesn't feel 100% comfortable with his/her duties and would like to know if there are any training opportunities.

In your honest, real life opinion, it is acceptable to tell him/her that they should have thought about that before, that he/she is incompetent and that he/she should not be in the position where he/she is?

I get that the truth can be hard to deal with, but in the here and now you have to give some practical advice along with the brutal truth. So far you just told this chick that she's ****ed and it's her own fault.
#31
Quote by flexiblemile
so one of your own employees comes to see you and tells you that he/she doesn't feel 100% comfortable with his/her duties and would like to know if there are any training opportunities.

In your honest, real life opinion, it is acceptable to tell him/her that they should have thought about that before, that he/she is incompetent and that he/she should not be in the position where he/she is?

I get that the truth can be hard to deal with, but in the here and now you have to give some practical advice along with the brutal truth. So far you just told this chick that she's ****ed and it's her own fault.


No, that wouldn't be acceptable, but more because it's a failure on my part than theirs. While I want people who look for future opportunities and request the tools to help them make ready for those opportunities, I recognize that's not always the case. It is also MY responsibility as a manager to have a succession plan in place so that when I do need to promote, I have a qualified pool of applicants available. (Inasmuch as possible, this becomes far harder in a small business).

You are right though, I stopped short and should have offered what I felt was a reasonable future plan if I was going to chastise for what I saw as both an employee and corporate failure.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#32
Arby, exactly how useful is your opening post to the OP? Not particularly. The Peter Principle comment was insulting. You don't know why she's been promoted. She may well have shown her abilities and skills suited for the role in day to day work and the interview process. You weren't there. No-one goes into a role as a finished product, and while you have touched on development within a role, you keep coming back to 'you should have done this.' Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing. Can you honestly say hand on heart that you were prepared for every eventuality in your life? At the risk of being wrong, I'm going to assume that you haven't. You get to something, find it isn't quite how you expected. We've all been in that position. Some just go with the flow, others drop out and quit, while others try and better themselves, which is what the OP is doing. And that's excellent.

I deal in employee development at work. I'm very good at it. One reason for my success? Instead of saying 'yeah, you should have done that,' I look at what my charges have done, their background, and mould their development to compliment that. It works. You could have saved yourself a lot of back and forth with the other guy if, instead of being a cranky old timer with a load of 'you should haves,' you actually gave some decent advice to the OP based on the situation. She can't change what's been and done.

EDIT: ^ That last comment of yours is pretty much my above but more succinct. Although you're really not in a place to chastise her.
Last edited by Deliriumbassist at Jul 30, 2015,
#33
First of all, what is Peter Principle?

To answer some comments here. I worked really hard to get to where I am right now. Yes, I believe I deserve this promotion. On the other hand, what is wrong with continuous improvement? There are a lot of coaching skills and techniques and maybe learning about personality types in order to identify the right coaching technique or tool. There are a lot of management training available. Most companies offer this to their employees and I was not offered an opportunity to attend such a training.

I also agree with some of the comments here. Yes, I agree that if I don't ask, I won't get it and I am now starting to think that I should not ask for myself, but for all employees in the company who have the potential to lead. This way, they will not feel like I do right now Thanks everyone for your thoughts!
#34
Quote by Kim Arrington
First of all, what is Peter Principle?

the idea is essentially that an employee will continue to be promoted based on how competent he/she is in a current position without regard for other skills that may be more relevant for the position they will be promoted into. you get a chain of this:

performs well in current role -> promoted -> performs well in new role -> promoted

until the employee hits a particular level they are incompetent at and will fail in.

the "rising to your level of incompetence" bit was a reference to that final step. the level of incompetence is the final promotion into a role that the employee will fail to succeed in.
Last edited by :-D at Aug 3, 2015,
#35
Quote by theogonia777
So go to the mooks first and the moocs second?

В словах есть что-то неприличное.
#36
Quote by Kim Arrington
Hey guys, I just got promoted *takes a bow* I work in a small record company, subsidiary company actually. Now my question is this, is it too much if I ask the management to give me some training regarding supervision of my staff.


yeah because supervising is easy as shit. Just get to know the employees and act accordingly to what they work best with, hands-on/give-me-space/etc etc. Review reports, make assessments, and actually do something like learn about their work instead of walk around with coffee looking like Lumbergh