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#1
For those who have worked in both sectors, what are the main differences in your opinion and which sector did you prefer to work in?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#2
Private companies can be well-to-do and best for economic environment, generally speaking. Public companies are possibly soulless, if they lose sight of their mission stmt and by-laws, and the people dont like each other. Public sector eg gov't is laxer. More beauracratic so not as good at making good decisions fast, and appropriations/encumbrances may be more difficult to guage if the deciders suck and are too detached to their external environment.
.
Last edited by Fat Lard at Aug 13, 2015,
#3
the constitution
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#4
My bro did.

Private is ruthless, efficient and big $$$. You can excel at your field if you are willing and able to work more and better than the person next to you - this also means sacrificing more of your life to your career, accepting various optional duties, going on business trips. There are gonna be talks about synergy, company loyalty, teamwork etc. You will be expected to put your work first and if you do so you will be rewarded accordingly.

Public is the opposite, it requires next to no additional input from your part - you are expected to come to work and do the things you're told to do. Noone will give a damn if you have your country's flag hanged on the hood of your car or if you have the company's poster hung above your bed. And if you mention team spirit people are probably gonna laugh at you. But while you are not expected to work more and compete with your fellow workers, you also won't be able to reap the rewards (or suffer the consequences) of doing so. Your wage will stay more or less the same and getting a promotion will mostly depend on bureaucracy and luck.

Well, at least this is how it should work on paper.

Realistically (assuming you're working at a big company and not your uncle's fishing shop) the private sector is a place where you're just a number among thousands if not more, nobody really gives a damn about who you are and unless you're smarter than the vast majority of people you're gonna have to suck some serious boss dick to get anywhere.

The public sector on the other hand is a dying wasteland, being driven further and further into the ground by neoliberal policies and an ever more vicious free market. Maybe your dad or someone else will recall the times when the state could offer you safe employment at low personal cost but those days are long gone. Now the best you can hope for is being employed for an indefinite amount of time and the CEO not buying one too many yachts for the company to stay afloat.

At least this is the way it is in the good ol' periphery. Maybe the public sector is doing better elsewhere but here I'm more or less coming to terms with the fact that I'm probably gonna be homeless or I'm toil during overtime until I'm 75 with no hope of getting a pension from the state.

Such is life behind iron curtain.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#5
Private is a nice clean desk with the air of being better than your local dentist who's more friendly
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#6
Quote by JamSessionFreak
My bro did.

Private is ruthless, efficient and big $$$. You can excel at your field if you are willing and able to work more and better than the person next to you - this also means sacrificing more of your life to your career, accepting various optional duties, going on business trips. There are gonna be talks about synergy, company loyalty, teamwork etc. You will be expected to put your work first and if you do so you will be rewarded accordingly.

Public is the opposite, it requires next to no additional input from your part - you are expected to come to work and do the things you're told to do. Noone will give a damn if you have your country's flag hanged on the hood of your car or if you have the company's poster hung above your bed. And if you mention team spirit people are probably gonna laugh at you. But while you are not expected to work more and compete with your fellow workers, you also won't be able to reap the rewards (or suffer the consequences) of doing so. Your wage will stay more or less the same and getting a promotion will mostly depend on bureaucracy and luck.

Well, at least this is how it should work on paper.

Realistically (assuming you're working at a big company and not your uncle's fishing shop) the private sector is a place where you're just a number among thousands if not more, nobody really gives a damn about who you are and unless you're smarter than the vast majority of people you're gonna have to suck some serious boss dick to get anywhere.

The public sector on the other hand is a dying wasteland, being driven further and further into the ground by neoliberal policies and an ever more vicious free market. Maybe your dad or someone else will recall the times when the state could offer you safe employment at low personal cost but those days are long gone. Now the best you can hope for is being employed for an indefinite amount of time and the CEO not buying one too many yachts for the company to stay afloat.

At least this is the way it is in the good ol' periphery. Maybe the public sector is doing better elsewhere but here I'm more or less coming to terms with the fact that I'm probably gonna be homeless or I'm toil during overtime until I'm 75 with no hope of getting a pension from the state.

Such is life behind iron curtain.


Weren't you extolling the miracle of your own economy and it's inherent superiority not so many weeks ago?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#7
I work in public sector and am kinda fed up with no real reward for working hard. Private sector has it's own bullshit but at least you get paid better and there is some proper incentive to actually put effort in.

Also public sector, career progression feels more like you are just waiting for the person above you to retire or quit and even then you pretty much have to apply alongside anyone else rather than just being simply promoted. eg, someone doing my current job quit and even though I was doing the job as a temp for a few months, I still had to go through interviews and prove I was better than some randoms from outside the organisation who saw the job posting and applied. only won out because inside knowledge of the job let me basically tick all the requirement boxes in the interviews (saw the CVs of the others, they were way more qualified but clearly didn't quite understand what kind of specific skills were needed)


Public sector has that chill "I'll always have a job" mentality as it's pretty hard to get fired and if they cut your position, they'll put you somewhere else, even giving you priority to apply for open vacancies before the job goes out to market (which has lead to quite a few people doing jobs they can't actually do). Despite that there's no motivation to do you job well beyond not getting told off, so while you can still have initiative and motivation just for the sake of it, it gets increasingly exhausting giving a crap while most others don't and not even getting a reward for your efforts. The only real "benefit" I get from sticking with things is a small pay raise and extra leave day for every year I work.


It annoys me because I'm pro-public sector stuff in principle but in practice, the inefficient bureaucracy and the lazy attitude of people working in it just makes it an annoying place to work if you actually give a crap about what you're doing. Am planning on leaving this job trying out private again in a year or so, or possibly moving to one of the analysis/consulting groups who are still technically public sector but operate very much like private sector groups.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#8
Quote by Arby911
Weren't you extolling the miracle of your own economy and it's inherent superiority not so many weeks ago?

Socialist economy of Yugoslavia up to the early 80s brah. Those were the good ol' days our parents remember.

The only superior thing about our current economy is how long we've able to resist neoliberal tendencies and how inept our government is when it comes to trying to change this. The state of the economy itself is horrible, illegal privatisation and corruption have left the state with only a few good companies in its hands. The ones which were sold are either half-bankrupt or are sold to foreign investors with practicallyno ties to our own workforce.

I've never been even remotely proud of our current heading in terms of economy, but I do sincerely enjoy how repressive against business our old legislation is at times and how much disillusionment and anti-capitalist sentiment is created whenever this legislation is by-passed illegally via crony privatization which ultimately always fails.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#9
I like the public sector, despite really irritating shit like other people being allowed to apply for your promotions.
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#10
I can't stand working for the county. Surrounded by 100 people all trying to accomplish as little as possible. No room for creative ideas, no incentive at all.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#11
Quote by JamSessionFreak
Socialist economy of Yugoslavia up to the early 80s brah. Those were the good ol' days our parents remember.

The only superior thing about our current economy is how long we've able to resist neoliberal tendencies and how inept our government is when it comes to trying to change this. The state of the economy itself is horrible, illegal privatisation and corruption have left the state with only a few good companies in its hands. The ones which were sold are either half-bankrupt or are sold to foreign investors with practicallyno ties to our own workforce.

I've never been even remotely proud of our current heading in terms of economy, but I do sincerely enjoy how repressive against business our old legislation is at times and how much disillusionment and anti-capitalist sentiment is created whenever this legislation is by-passed illegally via crony privatization which ultimately always fails.


So...what happened in the early 80's, in your opinion, that allowed such a tragedy to occur? I'm of course moderately familiar with the history of the region, but one presumes that if it was a good as you seem to believe it was that it should have been able to withstand the pressures inherent in the issues of the day?

Please note that this is a serious question, I'm not trying to make light of your current situation, I'm just honestly curious as to what you believe happened, and why?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#12
I will never EVER work in the public sector.

There was a guy at work who came from the public sector. Put in the most minimal work possible, sometimes barely even that. Needless to say, he was fired. And that ain't an anomaly. Public sector people are too often about as interesting and creative as drying wallpaper. They know they have an in for life due to unions and lack of incentive, so who cares? Why bother be good at your job? This is why government should be limited in scope. Its people are truly incompetent and impotent.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#13
Quote by Xiaoxi
I will never EVER work in the public sector.

There was a guy at work who came from the public sector. Put in the most minimal work possible, sometimes barely even that. Needless to say, he was fired. And that ain't an anomaly. Public sector people are too often about as interesting and creative as drying wallpaper. They know they have an in for life due to unions and lack of incentive, so who cares? Why bother be good at your job? This is why government should be limited in scope. Its people are truly incompetent and impotent.


Although technically my military service was public sector employment, I tend to agree with you.

Couldn't we argue that's our own fault though? How have we, the people, let our public sector employees get to the point where this is the case?

I would like to also point out that there are many places where this isn't the case. I've seen quite the opposite in places like NASA, JPL etc., at least amongst the scientists and engineers. I think it's the general run-of-the-mill paper pushers and mid-level functionaries that have been allowed to get lazy on the people's dime.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#14
It's hard to get ahead in the public sector and motivate yourself to care because you're on pay bands and everything is so regimented. 6 months of really hard work isn't going to get you a rise or a promotion or a bonus because you're a band 2 employee on a band 2 contract with a band 2 salary so really, you're going to go in and do the work to get stuff done, and not further. I think that's the problem with any highly regimented organised really - such as larger corporations where you're just doing menial work eg. shops, call centres etc.

Meanwhile in a skilled private sector business since the pay is more fluid and people aren't on regimented you're more willing to go out of your way and stay an extra half an hour because that'll pay off with a bonus or a pay rise or a better job title.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#15
Quote by Arby911
Although technically my military service was public sector employment, I tend to agree with you.

Couldn't we argue that's our own fault though? How have we, the people, let our public sector employees get to the point where this is the case?

I would like to also point out that there are many places where this isn't the case. I've seen quite the opposite in places like NASA, JPL etc., at least amongst the scientists and engineers. I think it's the general run-of-the-mill paper pushers and mid-level functionaries that have been allowed to get lazy on the people's dime.



For me it's a combination of bad organisation and public sector work being particularly attractive to people who aren't really there to make careers, ie less skilled caregivers/parents since the culture is quite accommodating and also people aren't very competent or ambitious who would otherwise get fired for lack of productivity in private sector. I can't quite accept the idea that public sector could be completely flawed cause of my socialist biases though. The main issue to solve is how to deal with all the lazy and useless people without resorting to gulags or something or just paying them to stay at home.

Places like Nasa, I'm presuming are filled with people who actually wanted to be there in the first place rather than people looking for an easy job they can zone out in.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#16
Quote by Arby911
So...what happened in the early 80's, in your opinion, that allowed such a tragedy to occur? I'm of course moderately familiar with the history of the region, but one presumes that if it was a good as you seem to believe it was that it should have been able to withstand the pressures inherent in the issues of the day?

Please note that this is a serious question, I'm not trying to make light of your current situation, I'm just honestly curious as to what you believe happened, and why?

Yugoslavia?

A mixture of things.

The first was nationalism which was dealt in a similar way in which racism is now being dealt in the US. Sure, the government was ferocious when it came to stomping down nationalist extremists and censoring media that went against the Bratstvo i jedinstvo principle. The stomping down itself wasn't really that problematic, but because nationalism like that wasn't being openly talked about it just kept quiely boiling away. Once democratization and the economical crisis hit, nationalists in Serbia began quickly gaining popularity by at the same time playing the victim card because of the state's oppression and playing on the people's hopelessness once things started going to shit.

The second was incredibly poor planning when it came to Tito's death. While the man was alive he served as a unifying symbol for the different nationalities and constantly acted as a charismatic authority figure which preached about peace and brotherhood between Souther Slavs. But on top of that, him and his government seemed to be able to run the economy very successfully, always managed to secure foreign funds via various diplomatic acts and most importantly, sustained a high amount of communication and collaboration between the separate republics. Once he died, the power struggles and poor preparation for his death let nationalist groups claim many important positions within the government - this led to the republics becoming more and more self-interested and focusing less and less on actually working together to sustain a healthy economy. Also something about the 1973 oil crisis but I forgot how most of that came into play.

There's also other factors that come into play like the specific way the Slovenes and Croatian's reacted to the state of politics in Serbia at the time and then the absolutely disgusting way in which attempts to save the country were sabotaged by nationalist officials. In a way, a very small group of nationalists led the country off of it's tracks by securing important government and military positions.

Fairly good documentary, has many flaws but it's able to address the wars much better than any other I've seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkg4tVCYuNA

Finally, this has little to do with the state of Slovenia today. When we declared independence and the first years after that we were by far the most developed post-communist country in Europe and were held as a model for transition to a market economy.

Stuff started going south in the 2000s, especially in 2009 when the global market crisis struck. It was only then when shit started getting bad for us.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#17
Quote by Hydra150
the constitution

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#18
Quote by JamSessionFreak


Finally, this has little to do with the state of Slovenia today. When we declared independence and the first years after that we were by far the most developed post-communist country in Europe and were held as a model for transition to a market economy.

Stuff started going south in the 2000s, especially in 2009 when the global market crisis struck. It was only then when shit started getting bad for us.


Ok, what went wrong there? If everything was going that well, what happened that killed it? (Thanks for the other information BTW, it never hurts to have another perspective on issues and I'm not an expert on your region by any stroke of imagination.)
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#20
Quote by Arby911


I would like to also point out that there are many places where this isn't the case. I've seen quite the opposite in places like NASA, JPL etc., at least amongst the scientists and engineers. I think it's the general run-of-the-mill paper pushers and mid-level functionaries that have been allowed to get lazy on the people's dime.


Yes to a degree. I have a friend who is a leading Planetary Astrophysicist at NASA/JPL. He has been doing research for a very long time there and loves his job but he spends 70% of his time pushing paper (funding proposals) and 30% actually doing research. It is a terribly inefficient use of our best and brightest minds.

Another friend is employee #1 at SpaceX Technologies. They are totally geared towards innovation/productivity that abhors bureaucracy. The place seems like organized chaos but they can deliver a rocket for 1/10th the cost of NASA, Boeing or other more traditional vendors. SpaceX engineers are not allowed to push paper because it distracts them from design innovation and stifles creativity. Elon gets it!
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#21
Quote by Cajundaddy
SpaceX engineers are not allowed to push paper because it distracts them from design innovation and stifles creativity. Elon gets it!

Yes.

I think a big part of why government sucks so much is their love of bureaucracy and formality. Maybe it was born of a need to cover their own ass. But the end result is an overwhelmingly stifling and stagnant environment to be in. They cannot be quick and adaptive to current trends, they can't and won't think of creative solutions, and they don't dare do anything not written on the procedures list.

In contrast to my jobs, I'll do whatever is necessary to get the desired end results, as long as it's in good discretion. Bringing up a new idea or taking the path of least resistance is not only allowed, but encouraged, even if it deviates from what's normally done. I'm not saying private organizations are all nimble and aren't prone to bureaucracy...a lot of them are as well, but there's a reason why the startups of the world rise to the top so quickly.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#22
Quote by So-Cal
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#23
Quote by Cajundaddy
Yes to a degree. I have a friend who is a leading Planetary Astrophysicist at NASA/JPL. He has been doing research for a very long time there and loves his job but he spends 70% of his time pushing paper (funding proposals) and 30% actually doing research. It is a terribly inefficient use of our best and brightest minds.

Another friend is employee #1 at SpaceX Technologies. They are totally geared towards innovation/productivity that abhors bureaucracy. The place seems like organized chaos but they can deliver a rocket for 1/10th the cost of NASA, Boeing or other more traditional vendors. SpaceX engineers are not allowed to push paper because it distracts them from design innovation and stifles creativity. Elon gets it!


Fair enough, and well said.

When I come to Cali, you'll introduce me to these folks, right?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#24
They should call it the pubic sector cuz working there is balls.
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#25
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They should call it the pubic sector cuz working there is balls.


...modes and scales are still useless.


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#26
Down with government
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#27
Public sector:
Less pay, less work & more holidays

Private sector:
more moolah, work your ass day, night, holidays n just about every other time & less holidays
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#28
Public sector is only so bureaucratic cause of right wingers who want to exclude pretty much everyone from the services it delivers. "Oh you lost your job? Better fill in a million forms, show up daily to prove you are searching for a job" shit like that costs tonnes of money and isn't helping anyone.

But yeah I prefer working in semi-public institutions. I work for me, not for anyone else. I have a friend who works for a big bank that I shall not name, and basically they are conning everyone. Lying about research, lying about positions of people in the company etc.etc. whatever suits them. They made someone temporarily the director of eastern European banking ( a position that didn't exist, nor had any meaning or research behind it) just cause a big eastern European company came by. Sure you can call this being inventive, I call it bullshit cheating that is hurting this world.
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#29
Quote by Neo Evil11
Public sector is only so bureaucratic cause of right wingers who want to exclude pretty much everyone from the services it delivers. "Oh you lost your job? Better fill in a million forms, show up daily to prove you are searching for a job" shit like that costs tonnes of money and isn't helping anyone.

Neo are you ok? You've been rambling incoherently recently

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#30
Quote by Xiaoxi
Neo are you ok? You've been rambling incoherently recently


I noticed that? Given that the majority of public leeches government workers, excluding the military (who actually work) are liberal, one wonders if he's gone off his meds in thinking that the bureaucracy is a right-wing invention?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#31
Nah Neo's correct about bureaucracy.

I'm beginning to think it's actually big companies vs small companies. The bigger a company gets the more systems and forms and stuff it needs to simply exist. With more layers of bureaucracy you need people employed to just make sure others are doing their jobs and that is when it gets ridiculous.

Given that most public sector operations are large then there's going to be a greater prevalence of that, combined with pay band issues etc.

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#32
Quote by Neo Evil11
Public sector is only so bureaucratic cause of right wingers who want to exclude pretty much everyone from the services it delivers. "Oh you lost your job? Better fill in a million forms, show up daily to prove you are searching for a job" shit like that costs tonnes of money and isn't helping anyone.



Yeah it would be interesting to see how much of the dumb stuff in the public sector is down to influences from those kinds of people.

While some of the bureaucracy is just down to the public sector moving slower than everyone else, a lot of the form filling culture is down to govt trying to justify public sector spending by creating a some somewhat arbitrary targets and then making everyone have to waste time recording said targets. We're slowly making this fade into the background with better use of technology but still way behind compared to how big private organisations handle things (the current "big" thing in our area is the govt mandate that we all move to mass barcoding and cataloguing and product tracking which big private organisations like supermarkets have been doing for decades lol)


I know we also waste a lot of money here making sure that we comply with various rules that force us to be give every company a fair shot at bidding for our contracts (no matter how bullshit the company is) and open up certain services to private companies (ie catering, cleaning and security).

eg, we just renewed our catering cleaning and security and now wanted to get it from one single company instead a different people like before and had to basically waste 6+ months of time and shit loads of consultant expenses screening 300 or so companies when it was clear from the start only about 5 companies were viable (and EU rules meant we had to consider EU companies too, like one big french one who has no presence in the UK right now lol)


and then there is the problem of wasting a lot of money on a constant stream of external (private) consultants who are hired either to advise on how we can fix things or are hired as cover for senior/exec roles that require a lot of skill and experience and are hard to fill because those types of people would rather stay in the private sector earning huge amounts and get nice bonuses and such.

The consultants who come to advise either give crap advice and bail with their cash before it turns ugly (and just blame the org's culture if it does) or they have great ideas that never get implemented because it means some people are going to get uncomfortable and do everything they can to subvert their efforts (my dept head just quit for this very reason)
O.K.

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~ Bill Watterson


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#33
right wingers want to exclude end users from public sector services by making them harder to use and more difficult to access, the bureaucratic processes which plague public sector workers is a by product of that
#34
Quote by Arby911
I noticed that? Given that the majority of public leeches government workers, excluding the military (who actually work) are liberal, one wonders if he's gone off his meds in thinking that the bureaucracy is a right-wing invention?



I think it's more an unintended cause, ie right wing demands justification for spending, govt sets targets, targets need measures and planning and along the way you get a mess of bureaucracy forming with all the back and forth there.


you can get similar nonsense from the left on private companies when they ask them to meet certain regulations.

I'd say bureaucracy is an invention of both the "left" and "right"
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


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#35
Quote by theguitarist

I'd say bureaucracy is an invention of both the "left" and "right"

I'm amending this...

Bureaucracy is NOT partisan. Governments are prone to it, period.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#36
Bureaucracy is just something that happens to any organisation when its gets too large, left or right, private or public.

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#37
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Bureaucracy is just something that happens to any organisation when its gets too large, left or right, private or public.

This is true as well. There are strategies to mitigate it, but yes it gets increasingly more difficult the bigger the scope. That's why there is merit to the idea of wanting smaller or more decentralized government.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#38
Quote by So-Cal
right wingers want to exclude end users from public sector services by making them harder to use and more difficult to access, the bureaucratic processes which plague public sector workers is a by product of that



there's that too I suppose but I can't quite get behind the idea of that being a deliberate process.
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~ Bill Watterson


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#39
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Bureaucracy is just something that happens to any organisation when its gets too large, left or right, private or public.


ITT EndtheRapture says the government is too big.
#40
Quote by Xiaoxi
Neo are you ok? You've been rambling incoherently recently

I have not been rambling incoherently. You just lack any morality and empathy to identify the problems our nations have. I know the Chinese government doesn´t have any environmental and health standards and if you don't believe me look up rare earth mining and Baotou lake. There is nothing incoherent about it. China lacks the health and environmental regulation that we have in the civilized countries. Nor am I wrong about the right wing trying to make access to public services as difficult as possible. We are getting more and more insane rules here that right wingers think justify spending on social security. In fact everyone has put in money when they worked, and they deserve to get their share back no matter what the liberals think about the poor. The same is going on in the USA. "we have to allow abortions? Better make it as difficult as possible to get access to"- Texas.

I think everyone here knows that you lack any kind of empathy.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
Last edited by Neo Evil11 at Aug 13, 2015,
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