#1
I'm thinking about replacing the stock pickups on my Ibanez Premium guitar, and i know very little about pickups i'm just wonder for heavy rock/blues/metal would it be better going for SD's or DM's

Note these are passives i'm going for

Amp is a Blackstar ID:30

Don't really have a budget as i'm just doing research right now
Last edited by Tcrumpen at Aug 22, 2015,
#2
What amp do you have?
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#4
We can't really answer the question. Both SD and Dimarzio have dozens of different models that would be great or bad for what you're looking for. It's not nearly so simple as "Dimarzio vs. SD".

Furthermore, you have a solid state amp that, in my experience, is not strongly influenced by a change in pickups. You would likely be wasting your money.
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Last edited by KailM at Aug 22, 2015,
#5
well along with everything, there is so much gear flooding teh market these days i always try to take extra steps to find something not super common and immidiately in front of your face...ie whatever every single guitar center in the country has.

there are SO many pickup brands out there expensive and non expensive. i would do your research and perhaps find a unique jem.

however, for the standard 60-70 bucks a pickup, it may be hard to beat those two brands. some good ones may be that price, or perhaps come in around 80-120 ish a pickup with boutiques ranging up from there. and then the ludacris ones for like 250-300+ a pickup...silly.

____

there are some really great solid state technologies on teh market that respond very naturally. i dont want to bash your amp cause i know nothing about it, but most of these good solid state technologies are very high end.

as already stated, for a run of the mill solid state amp i would say dont invest in nice pickups, or do so last after a bunch of other things.

my best advice is go try to test guitars with your amp. Seymour duncans are common. it should be hard to sit down in guitar center with a stock pickup, like a epihpone les paul, and then find a guitar with a seymour duncan JB, etc and test it out. see what different it makes with your amp.
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#6
Quote by ikey_
well along with everything, there is so much gear flooding teh market these days i always try to take extra steps to find something not super common and immidiately in front of your face...ie whatever every single guitar center in the country has.

there are SO many pickup brands out there expensive and non expensive. i would do your research and perhaps find a unique jem.

however, for the standard 60-70 bucks a pickup, it may be hard to beat those two brands. some good ones may be that price, or perhaps come in around 80-120 ish a pickup with boutiques ranging up from there. and then the ludacris ones for like 250-300+ a pickup...silly.

____

there are some really great solid state technologies on teh market that respond very naturally. i dont want to bash your amp cause i know nothing about it, but most of these good solid state technologies are very high end.

as already stated, for a run of the mill solid state amp i would say dont invest in nice pickups, or do so last after a bunch of other things.

my best advice is go try to test guitars with your amp. Seymour duncans are common. it should be hard to sit down in guitar center with a stock pickup, like a epihpone les paul, and then find a guitar with a seymour duncan JB, etc and test it out. see what different it makes with your amp.

Thanks for the advice and the ID:30 isn't your traditional kind of modelling amp, it model values rather than specific "amps"

if your interested in learning about it, i always find vids by these guys to be good enough for your basic information (of course youtube sound compression is annoying)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdyrDsAmjdg
#7
Quote by KailM
We can't really answer the question. Both SD and Dimarzio have dozens of different models that would be great or bad for what you're looking for. It's not nearly so simple as "Dimarzio vs. SD".

Furthermore, you have a solid state amp that, in my experience, is not strongly influenced by a change in pickups. You would likely be wasting your money.


+1

if you have the money and just want to get something nice, though, there's no harm in swapping the pickups, either, as long as you're aware any improvement might be subtle. could you list some bands for those genres you listed? just to narrow it down a bit and in case our idea of heavy rock is different from yours.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#8
Quote by Tcrumpen
Thanks for the advice and the ID:30 isn't your traditional kind of modelling amp, it model values rather than specific "amps"

if your interested in learning about it, i always find vids by these guys to be good enough for your basic information (of course youtube sound compression is annoying)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdyrDsAmjdg


sounds like you took the advertising hook, line, and sinker. i don't think that its any different than any other modeler.
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#9
Quote by trashedlostfdup
sounds like you took the advertising hook, line, and sinker. i don't think that its any different than any other modeler.

Actually, you'll find that their modelling stuff is for specific values rather than say a patch for a Fender Hot Rod deluxe, now granted the amps people normally model might use the values that this amp models, but still. I'm really happy with the amp, better than my Roland Cube
#10
Quote by Dave_Mc
+1

if you have the money and just want to get something nice, though, there's no harm in swapping the pickups, either, as long as you're aware any improvement might be subtle. could you list some bands for those genres you listed? just to narrow it down a bit and in case our idea of heavy rock is different from yours.

Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, SRV, ZZ Top, Social Distortion, Alice Cooper, Dragonforce, Sabaton, Freedom Call, Van Halen, tiny bit of BB King, Halestorm
#11
As a general rule of thumb, pickups are going to have only a very, very slight impact on tone on modelling amps, although I haven't played that Blackstar so I can't say for definite.

From the list of artists you gave there isn't any one magical pickup which is going to nail all of those, regardless of what amp you have. The best you will achieve is an approximation.

Unless you have a more specific tonal goal, and the rest of your gear is able to get you 90% of the way there, upgrading pickups is going to be a waste of money.
#12
Quote by Random3
As a general rule of thumb, pickups are going to have only a very, very slight impact on tone on modelling amps, although I haven't played that Blackstar so I can't say for definite.

From the list of artists you gave there isn't any one magical pickup which is going to nail all of those, regardless of what amp you have. The best you will achieve is an approximation.

Unless you have a more specific tonal goal, and the rest of your gear is able to get you 90% of the way there, upgrading pickups is going to be a waste of money.

I am aiming for the 80s classic rock tone, the likes of early Def Leppard, am also starting to look into valve combo's im not in a band or gigging so a head and cab isn't needed
#13
Quote by Random3
As a general rule of thumb, pickups are going to have only a very, very slight impact on tone on modelling amps, although I haven't played that Blackstar so I can't say for definite.

From the list of artists you gave there isn't any one magical pickup which is going to nail all of those, regardless of what amp you have. The best you will achieve is an approximation.

Unless you have a more specific tonal goal, and the rest of your gear is able to get you 90% of the way there, upgrading pickups is going to be a waste of money.


this is correct. for the most part untl you get into modellers like Axe-Fx they just can't tell the difference in pickups. the amp models are designed to give an idealized version of that amps tone. with your amp it's simplified further and then spun as something cool rather than simpler. as mentioned go test a few different guitars through your amp. my guess is that they will all sound pretty similar.
#14
Quote by Tcrumpen
I am aiming for the 80s classic rock tone, the likes of early Def Leppard, am also starting to look into valve combo's im not in a band or gigging so a head and cab isn't needed


If you have a decent tube amp which can pull off the kind of tone you are looking for, regardless of whether it is a combo or a halfstack, then at that point I would consider upgrading pickups.

I personally didn't touch the pickups on any of my guitars until I had exactly the amp I wanted to pull off the sound I wanted. If I had paid £150 to upgrade the pickups on my guitar when I still had an MG50 it would have been a complete waste of money.
#15
Quote by Random3
If you have a decent tube amp which can pull off the kind of tone you are looking for, regardless of whether it is a combo or a halfstack, then at that point I would consider upgrading pickups.

I personally didn't touch the pickups on any of my guitars until I had exactly the amp I wanted to pull off the sound I wanted. If I had paid £150 to upgrade the pickups on my guitar when I still had an MG50 it would have been a complete waste of money.

I'll take that into consideration thanks
#16
In case of regular solid state amps, saying that "pickups make little difference with them" is a plain lie. Had two different ones and in particular the active vs. passive difference was ENORMOUS.

Not sure how modellers exactly work, but I don't see a reason why it should be much different - the pickups are still the first thing that processes the signal, and the amp works only with what it receives.

Either way, to answer the question: both companies make great pickups and have a huge following, it's really a matter of finding the exact pickups you like the most (some people even go as far as having the bridge and neck pickups from different companies). Although truth is, if it's an Ibanez Premium, the pickups are most likely not bad, and it indeed may be a bigger improvement so far to consider a new amp.
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
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#17
Quote by TheLiberation
Not sure how modellers exactly work, but I don't see a reason why it should be much different - the pickups are still the first thing that processes the signal, and the amp works only with what it receives.


Well, changing the pickups by any reasonable amount will have a noticeable impact on tone, but when played through a bad sounding uber-compressed fizzy cheap modeller like, say, a Spider, then regardless of whether you play with a Squire or a £2k PRS with Bareknuckles, it will still sound bad, uber-compressed and fizzy.
#18
Yep, that is true. But while in most such cases a change of amp is a better idea than change of pickups, you can't just say the pickups will make no difference whatsoever.

There are a couple of cases when it wouldn't be a terrible idea, e.g. if someone has a guitar with low output pickups, looks to play metal, and has in no way a budget to swap an amp, then getting some reasonable used higher-output pickups wouldn't be terrible. The stock Ibanez pickups in the Premium series aren't that bad though, I was seriously considering to buy one and I liked how it sounded stock (but found an even better deal in the end).
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
There's no point in trying to convince a moron.
#19
Quote by TheLiberation
Yep, that is true. But while in most such cases a change of amp is a better idea than change of pickups, you can't just say the pickups will make no difference whatsoever.

There are a couple of cases when it wouldn't be a terrible idea, e.g. if someone has a guitar with low output pickups, looks to play metal, and has in no way a budget to swap an amp, then getting some reasonable used higher-output pickups wouldn't be terrible. The stock Ibanez pickups in the Premium series aren't that bad though, I was seriously considering to buy one and I liked how it sounded stock (but found an even better deal in the end).

It might just be i haven't fiddle with the "software" enough to be able to produce the tone i'm after
#20
Quote by TheLiberation
There are a couple of cases when it wouldn't be a terrible idea, e.g. if someone has a guitar with low output pickups, looks to play metal, and has in no way a budget to swap an amp, then getting some reasonable used higher-output pickups wouldn't be terrible.


Yes, hypothetically if someone had a crap amp and £100 to spend and wanted to improve their sound then swapping out the pickups would do the job in this scenario. Whether it would be worth the money, almost certainly not but circimstantially it would likely give a noticeable difference in tone.
#21
Quote by TheLiberation
In case of regular solid state amps, saying that "pickups make little difference with them" is a plain lie. Had two different ones and in particular the active vs. passive difference was ENORMOUS.



Comparing actives to passives is one thing -- comparing two different passives of similar output is another. Of course actives are going to sound different; most of them have a much higher output than your average passive pickup.

In my experience, I maintain that of all the solid state amps I've owned, there wasn't much difference between pickups. VERY little difference on the one modeling amp I own (Peavey Vypyr 30 head). On that amp, on the distortion models at least, I can't tell the difference between my active Blackouts and my passive Black Winters. There is a difference on the clean settings though when I go from humbucking to single coil sounds.

Anyway, I don't want TS to be mislead here. Even through a high-quality TUBE amp, pickups don't sound immensely different from one another unless we're talking vast differences in output. Pickups are the "icing on the cake" regarding final tonal preferences.

If TS can't get 90% there with his amp, then no pickup is going to magically get him that 80s metal tone. Start with the right amp, then go from there. I don't know his amp; maybe it will get there. But something tells me it won't if he's considering new pickups/any sort of upgrades.
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Last edited by KailM at Aug 23, 2015,
#22
Quote by Tcrumpen
I am aiming for the 80s classic rock tone, the likes of early Def Leppard, am also starting to look into valve combo's im not in a band or gigging so a head and cab isn't needed


Ok. as they said, that list you made was very wide and used a wide-range of pickup types.

Is your guitar HSH?

Assuming it is, for the bridge I'd look at (from the major manufacturers):

Bridge:

Duncan JB
Duncan Distortion
Duncan Custom, Custom 5 or Custom Custom
Dimarzio Super Distortion
Dimarzio Paf Pro (fair bit lower output, more versatile but still quite modern-sounding, will benefit from a boost pedal which might not work so well with a modeller)

There are some other Dimarzios which would likely work but I haven't tried them.

Middle: I like the dimarzio virtual vintages but they won't be noiseless when combined with the bridge or neck pickup in the in-between position. conversely a "real" single coil will, won't be noiseless when used alone. I like the duncan SSL1 (or 2; same pickup with flush magnets for modern radius fretboards like yours) for a "real" single coil, if it's hot enough for SRV.

Neck: I like something PAF-ish in the neck. E.g. Duncan '59 or Jazz. Dimarzio does some PAF-style pickups too but I haven't tried them.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#23
Quote by Dave_Mc
Ok. as they said, that list you made was very wide and used a wide-range of pickup types.

Is your guitar HSH?

Assuming it is, for the bridge I'd look at (from the major manufacturers):

Bridge:

Duncan JB
Duncan Distortion
Duncan Custom, Custom 5 or Custom Custom
Dimarzio Super Distortion
Dimarzio Paf Pro (fair bit lower output, more versatile but still quite modern-sounding, will benefit from a boost pedal which might not work so well with a modeller)

There are some other Dimarzios which would likely work but I haven't tried them.

Middle: I like the dimarzio virtual vintages but they won't be noiseless when combined with the bridge or neck pickup in the in-between position. conversely a "real" single coil will, won't be noiseless when used alone. I like the duncan SSL1 (or 2; same pickup with flush magnets for modern radius fretboards like yours) for a "real" single coil, if it's hot enough for SRV.

Neck: I like something PAF-ish in the neck. E.g. Duncan '59 or Jazz. Dimarzio does some PAF-style pickups too but I haven't tried them.

It's a regular HH i don't like guitars that are HSH the S is right where i pick
#24
ok, thanks

same advice, just don't buy a middle pickup
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
Quote by TheLiberation
In case of regular solid state amps, saying that "pickups make little difference with them" is a plain lie. Had two different ones and in particular the active vs. passive difference was ENORMOUS.

Not sure how modellers exactly work, but I don't see a reason why it should be much different - the pickups are still the first thing that processes the signal, and the amp works only with what it receives.

Either way, to answer the question: both companies make great pickups and have a huge following, it's really a matter of finding the exact pickups you like the most (some people even go as far as having the bridge and neck pickups from different companies). Although truth is, if it's an Ibanez Premium, the pickups are most likely not bad, and it indeed may be a bigger improvement so far to consider a new amp.


modellers work on the idea that they provide you with an idealized version of the amp being modelled. many of the lower end modellers (or older versions of higher end) just take the signal in tems of notes produced and they don't really reproduce the subtle nuances of the pickup. i use a POD XT and while the models themselves are fairly decent they just don't "hear" much in terms of difference when it comes to individual pickups. my strats have vary different pickups in them but they pretty much sound the same through the POD (but you can clearly hear the difference thru my tube amps).
#26
the difference between SD and Dimarzio is personal preference. I've never been a massive fan of Dimarzios, they just seem to have a fizzy top end that i can't deal with. Try some guitars out with pickups youre looking at and see which you get on with.

What everyone else has said about your amp is right though, it might very well be a good modeler but you won't get a lot of difference from it. The only modelers have used where i could tell the difference were AxeFx and the higher end POD stuff. You simply wont get that much out of a new set of pickups to be honest, i'd save the $150 or so and put it towards a tube amp
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Quote by Bladed-Vaults
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#27
I think that the SD Jazz/JB combo is always good, I have 3 guitars with that setup and all 3 of those guitars sound great!

I also upgraded a Jackson Dinky with SD Custom/Custom pickups and the person who uses that guitar through basically same amp as yours says that the pickups were a great improvement over the Duncan Designed pickups that the guitar came with.

I did a PUP swap on another Jackson with some Dimarzio Evolutions and didn't think they sounded better than the stock pickups. But on an Ibanez S1520 I changed out the stock pups with Dimarzio PAF PRO and Fred and the difference was fantastic.

I also have a Strat that has a Duncan JB mini bucker in it and that sounds fantastic.

Good Luck, just do some research on the sound that you want, find the PUPS that you want and do it. You can always change back to what you had before or get a better amp etc... But in the end the only thing that really matters is what you want to do. You will hear a tone difference............Just pull the trigger and do it. You'll be glad you did.
#28
I have a prestige that I put evolution neck/bridge and true velvet middle in. It sounds great, good for rock and metal. More for soloing than power chords, though. You could substitute the bridge for a super distortion and maybe have more balance for rhythm, though don't quote me on that as I haven't directly compared the 2
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#29
in one prestige i have a tonezone/air norton, in another i have a crunch lab and liquifire, my third prestige is getting d-activators one of these days.

the first two sound fantastic, the CL has a little more output and has more of an attack than the air norton. the liquifire is just flat out an awesome and i love it.

i am eagerly awaiting my d-activators though.
______

i like some SD's, i really like the '59 in the neck, i also like the pearly gates in the bridge, the jazz isn't bad in the neck, but i prefer the '59. i don't like JB's.

______

i don't think that one brand is better than the other, there are good and bad from both brands. find what suits you.
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Quote by andersondb7
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Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
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2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
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#30
This is screaming DiMarzio Super Distortions to me.
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#31
Quote by Cathbard
This is screaming DiMarzio Super Distortions to me.

Yep.

I personally prefer SD to dimarzio, but both make good pickups.
Super distortion in the bridge and something a bit more paf in the neck. Haven't had much experience with other dimarzios besides the vai ones, so can't recommend something for the neck.

If SD I like the JB/'59 combo personally.
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#32
Quote by Cathbard at #33566433
This is screaming DiMarzio Super Distortions to me.


Yep, have them in a couple of Deans I own. Great pups.
Bass Gear:

Mensinger: Speesy
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Fender Steve Harris (CIJ)
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#33
I am in trouble choosing a right pick up
Now, I am using Washburn WM24V with built-in Randall pick up for both positions
I am considering about changing the pick up.
My favourite band are
Dream Theatre
Dragonforce
Classic rock band like ACDC
Wild cherry
Lee ritenour
The winery dog and others
I want my guitar can play with variety of genres

These are my choices
Seymour Duncan JB / 59
Dimarzio Crunch Lab / Liquifire
or The old one randall (in case that i dont have to change)
#35
Quote by darkwolf291 at #33568074
This
Super Distortion in the bridge, PAF in the neck

I use that combo in all of my guitars, and they scream


Interesting choice, will try this!
Bass Gear:

Mensinger: Speesy
Fender Precision 1989 (CIJ Rosewood)
Fender Steve Harris (CIJ)
Lakland J Sonic 5
Epiphone Explorer
Maruszczyk (custom) Jake

Ashdown CTM 100
#36
Quote by monwobobbo
modellers work on the idea that they provide you with an idealized version of the amp being modelled. many of the lower end modellers (or older versions of higher end) just take the signal in tems of notes produced and they don't really reproduce the subtle nuances of the pickup. i use a POD XT and while the models themselves are fairly decent they just don't "hear" much in terms of difference when it comes to individual pickups. my strats have vary different pickups in them but they pretty much sound the same through the POD (but you can clearly hear the difference thru my tube amps).

Hm, that's interesting. It makes sense when explained this way.
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
There's no point in trying to convince a moron.