#1
I bothered to finish learning those boxes and put on a backing track and suddenly I can play the goddamn guitar?? What's going on lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgeg8iApMX8

So next I need to learn

a. the root notes
b. blues notes
c. some random licks
d. where to bend
e. practice practice


But then what?

What should I progress to next that has an impact like this?

Is the next thing to learn the scales behind individual chords?

So I would take a chord like C Major then learn the scale behind it?

Will there be a "5 box pattern" for each chord that I learn, similar to the pentatonic boxes, that lets me play the scale anywhere on the fretboard?
Should I take like five (or 20??) popular chords and learn the scales behind them? (I know its probably not that simple by far but I'm just trying to get an idea of what I need to do next...)

Thanks

yeah im pretty excited lol....
Last edited by percydw at Aug 29, 2015,
#2
Well if you like the blues you can spend your whole life on those 5 things.

I would make sure you know how to connect those "boxes" and know how each note you play fits into the chord. As you advance, you'll use those strict shapes less and start learning how to use other notes in your melodies. The shapes are really just a basic guide for what notes are in reach when your hand is in a certain place.

Learning your regular major/minor scales would probably be the next big thing, as far as learning a specific idea that has broad applicability. You should approach it by learning the major scale formula and working out all the scales on your own. Use scale diagrams as little as possible.
#3
Quote by percydw
I bothered to finish learning those boxes and put on a backing track and suddenly I can play the goddamn guitar?? What's going on lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgeg8iApMX8

So next I need to learn

a. the root notes
b. blues notes
c. some random licks
d. where to bend
e. practice practice


But then what?

What should I progress to next that has an impact like this?

Is the next thing to learn the scales behind individual chords?

So I would take a chord like C Major then learn the scale behind it?

Will there be a "5 box pattern" for each chord that I learn, similar to the pentatonic boxes, that lets me play the scale anywhere on the fretboard?
Should I take like five (or 20??) popular chords and learn the scales behind them? (I know its probably not that simple by far but I'm just trying to get an idea of what I need to do next...)

Thanks

yeah im pretty excited lol....


You've learned the pentatonic scale but it's also essential that you understand it. In short, this means learning the intervals behind the pentatonics- at least to begin. This'll definitely help in seeing the greater whole, instead of these individual, isolated boxes.

I get what you mean by "random licks", but any learning that you do on the guitar should serve a greater purpose. Nothing should be truly random.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by scales behind the chords (the intervals behind the chords, maybe?). Perhaps you could clarify?

Hopes this helps!
#4
You're off to a good start! I'd say next would be to learn the full diatonic major and minor scales and see how they relate to the pentatonic. It basically just adds two more notes to the scale. For example, the A minor pentatonic you were playing is A C D E G and if you add in the B and F so it's A B C D E F G you get the full A minor scale. It basically add notes into the spots where you have the two note gaps, like this.

-----------------------------5-7-8-
-----------------------5-6-8------
-----------------4-5-7-----------
-------------5-7---------------
-------5-7-8------------------
-5-7-8-----------------------


Once you learn where the root notes are in the scale you should also learn where the roots of the relative major scale are, as well as the other intervals in both. C major and A minor both use the same notes, the difference being that in C major C is the tonic and in A minor A is the tonic.

From there the next big thing would be learning what chords are in which scales and how chords are formed. The C major scale is C D E F G A B and the C major chord is made from the notes C E and G, but there are other chords that can be made from that scale - for example, the V (5th) chord in that scale is G major, G B D. Learning the intervals is also important with this and just helpful in general. From there, once you learn the notes on the fretboard and which notes are in which chords you can target chord tones (or not if that's not the effect you want). I noticed you are already starting to do this a little by ear, but if you know where the notes of each chord are in the scale things get a lot clearer and you'll always know where you are and where you're going.

So, that said, you don't have to learn a scale for each chord. You learn which notes are in which chord and if the chord progression is diatonic you can use the same scale (whatever the key is) the whole time and target chord tones. Of course, if the song has chords that are non-diatonic (not part of the scale) then you'll want to go outside of the scale, but you'd still be paying attention to where the chord tones are.

That's a lot of stuff I just threw at you and not something you'll be able to learn over night. Just take it slow and keep having fun

Edit: basically what I said could be summed up as

full diatonic major and minor scales
intervals
chord construction and what chords are in what key
notes on the fretboard
practice targeting chord tones.
Last edited by The4thHorsemen at Aug 29, 2015,
#5
Learn songs - it's fun and puts these exercises into a musical context. Plus you never started playing guitar to run through scale patterns did you? You probably started playing guitar to play songs.
#6
Learn the root notes, then learn the minor and major scales. They're similar to one another and to the pentatonic scale. Once you've learned the 5 box patterns, concentrate on how those boxes fit together with each other, and practice moving between the boxes while you play, so you just aren't staying within only 1 box but can start moving up and down the entire fretboard.

After you've learned those scales, then I'd go on to learn how chords are constructed from scales.
#7
Remember to focus on rhythm, vibrato and bends too. If your timing is good and your vibrato and bends are in tune, it will make you sound so much better, even if you are playing exactly the same notes.

Based on what I saw in the video, those would be the things I would focus on.


I would also suggest training your ears. That will improve your improvisation a lot. Knowing what scale degrees or chord tones you are playing can help. Your ultimate goal would be to be able to play what you hear in your head instantly.


Oh, and if you want to know what scale fits what chords, I would suggest learning about keys and chord functions.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
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Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Aug 30, 2015,
#8
If you know what a "b3" or "b7" interval is, then learn the rest of the intervals.

If you don't, this may mean you're playing the pentatonic as shapew, without appreciating why these shapes are as they are, and what the sounds are carried in it (the intervals).

Either way, nail these ... very easy to learn. Then as you learn new scales, or learn more chords, you'll find them easier to remember, and also know how your interval choice played against the chord, for example (or in a melody) implies what could be played next.

And I suggest you listen closely to phrasing and melody of yoir favourite singers and instrmentalists. Watch out where they start and stop against the bar, how they cross the bar .. this stuff is mega-important.

And of course, play tunes!

cheers, Jerry
Last edited by jerrykramskoy at Aug 30, 2015,
#9
you can start learning songs lol
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#10
"What to learn next" is a difficult question, that nobody will really know the answer to, unless they have a certain level of competency at guitar in the style you are interested, and a certain level of personal knowledge about you, and your abilities on guitar. "I learn the pentatonic boxes and can play guitar now" is very vague, and not enough information for me to really tell you what would be the best play to go next. That said, I would say the major scale. But I think the way that you learn that, especially on guitar, is also important, and is actually a huge amount of work.

These kinds of questions are best answered by having a teacher, and imo, is one of the most valuable reasons to have one.

You will probably get a lot of different answers by a lot of different levels of guitarists, and that play a lot of different styles, in a forum. We also don't know you.

Maybe you can play the pentatonic, but don't know how to play barre chords, or idk, there is a lot that can factor into learning guitar, there are a lot of different kinds of guitar, and there is a most efficient way for you to get to where you want to go, but it is not likely you will find it this way. Even if you have a teacher, you'd need a good one.

I had a teacher for a short while back in the day on bass, and I didn't know it at the time, but his teaching method was not very good for me at all.
Last edited by fingrpikingood at Aug 30, 2015,
#11
+1 to Maggity Mags.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#12
thankyou everyone you are all amazing!

it sounds like there's solid consensus on how my progression should go, so thanks for that, its just what i needed to know (and importantly i can google/lookup all the keywords you used)

stuff like improved rhythm, bending etc will come over time as i become more confident in what i'm doing (and more mechanically competent) . and can shift some focus there

my callouses dont let me bend/play every day. i can only assume that the callouses will grow to a point where i can bend/play every day without the need for recovery days? ive had the guitar 6 months now i think but didnt play at all for 2 or 3 coz computer games and had to rebuild the callous from scratch a few weeks ago

as for learning songs, yeah ive played the same 10 or whatever chords and the same 1 solo for the past 6 months. i really have huge trouble picking out "a song" to learn. but whatever, i haven't lost interest so far. maybe i will never learn a song. lol

will have an easy day today coz i slept 4 hours after watching xjapan etc all night then revisit this thread material with enthusiasm
Last edited by percydw at Aug 30, 2015,
#13
Quote by percydw


as for learning songs, yeah ive played the same 10 or whatever chords and the same 1 solo for the past 6 months. i really have huge trouble picking out "a song" to learn. but whatever, i haven't lost interest so far. maybe i will never learn a song. lol


just a reminder that guitar makes sounds that when arranged is called music

you can learn all you want about grammar theory, but that doesn't mean you can write a (good) book without having read one

i don't understand how people can want to learn how to play an instrument but not want to learn music
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#15
yeah i know, its just too much to think about atm
thanks ill watch the vid
#16
Quote by percydw
my callouses dont let me bend/play every day.
Sounds like bad news. You fingers should not be in such a condition that they prevent you playing for at least a short while every day. Maybe avoid the bending for a while, until the skin toughens naturally.

I've been playing 50 years and I have no callouses. When I was a beginner, yes I played to the point where I'd get blisters, which would then have to heal. So I couldn't play until they had. So I learned to not play so hard, because I didn't want to be forced not to play at all.
Very gradually the skin toughened, but without developing hard or dead areas. When I look at my fingertips on both hands, it's really hard to tell the difference. There's maybe some very slight flattening of the prints on the fret hand, but that's it.
So - don't obsess about callouses! (There's a lot of BS about them around.) Just play gentler. Your skin will toughen slowly by itself, just as your strength and flexibility does.
Quote by percydw

as for learning songs, yeah ive played the same 10 or whatever chords and the same 1 solo for the past 6 months. i really have huge trouble picking out "a song" to learn. but whatever, i haven't lost interest so far. maybe i will never learn a song. lol
Then what are you going to do? Why did you want to learn guitar in the first place? Because you liked the sound it made? Or because you like listening to music, and wanted to be part of it?
If the former, then you're on the right track. Who needs songs? Just carry on making lovely noises with the guitar. Just don't be surprised when no one wants to listen to you... ("Cant you play any songs, man?")

Seriously, not trying to put you off here! As long as you're enjoying what you're doing, that's what matters. Songs ought to give you some more fun targets to tackle.
I totally agree with all the above advice, btw - especially understanding how your scales fit the chords. E.g., with that "1 solo" you've been playing, do you know the chords to it too? Do you understand why those notes were chosen, in terms of how they relate to the chords or the key? (Never learn any solo without learning the chords first. And when you do know the chords, try making your own solo...)
#17
ok you pressured me into looking again at songs i want to learn and i found i'll be capable of playing Adam's Song in a few days with any luck so well done , that'll be my first full song

the song is simple but nailing those power chords and exercising my 1st+3rd finger stretch will be really valuable. plus maybe i will start trying to sing l o l

the callouses/fingers aren't bad im just impatiently seeking affirmation that they will become strong enough In Time to handle all the bending that i see other people doing presumeably on a daily basis. obviously they will and i should forget about it for another 6 months
Last edited by percydw at Aug 30, 2015,
#18
your callouses will get as strong as you let them. i can't cut the skin on the fingertips of my plucking hand unless a knife is sharp, and my fretting hand is in about the same shape
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#20
try spending some time practicing not pushing down on the strings so hard, try to keep your hand as relaxed as you can and use the least amount of force possible to push the string down enough to get a clean note out. You don't look particularly tense or like you're playing too hard in the video, but I can't really tell and it's something to keep in mind anyway.

Be sure to take care of your strings (don't play with nasty hands and wipe them down occasionally) and remember to change them. Like jongtr I developed pretty heavy callouses during my first couple of years of playing, but once I learned to not play so hard and developed better technique they went back closer to normal where they may be tougher but not something you can easily see. I can play for hours and hours and not experience any discomfort (on electric - acoustics can be a little hard on the fingers depending on what you're playing) But, if the strings are old and nasty I can't play it for more than 10 minutes without it shredding my fingers.

It seems counter intuitive, but if you're playing your guitars fairly frequently the strings don't seem to get that horrible rough feeling as they get older, they'll just slowly get duller sounding, but any time I've picked up someone else's guitar that they haven't played in months the strings feel horrible.

So yea, if you've still got the same strings on that it came with 6 months ago then if you change the strings you may find it way less painful to play. In general with normal strings you should probably change them every few months or so if you want them to sound and feel good, unless you get coated strings, which last a lot longer than the normal ones - maybe 6 months or longer. I once went a whole year with some coated strings on my acoustic but they sounded extremely dull for the last few months. Normal strings can last as long without breaking or sounding bad if you take care of them, they just go dull sounding a lot sooner.
#21
oh yeah i play bass and often play with 4+ string chords so
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#22
Yea, that's pretty rough on the fingers. I don't have a bass, but the times I've messed around with friend's basses it didn't take long for me to start feeling it.

The worst is barre chords on a 12-string acoustic. I spent a couple of hours jamming with a friend one time and was using his 12-string and my fingers were peeling and shit afterwards.
#23
I play acoustic with medium strigs and I have major callouses, which let me play as long as I want, basically. I have them on my fingertips on my plucking hand, but way more on my fretting hand. All of my fingertips are very hard on that hand, and I also have a lot of tough skin on my index, due to barre chords and the like. Which is nice because it means I can fret any barre chord o can possibly think of, in every inversion, and every note will ring out clean.

I would imagine that callouses would be a lot less significant on electric guitar with softer strings, but mine are pretty severe.

They look smooth though, and are not peeling, and didnt lose any figerprints or anything like that, but they're tough as shit.

But same here on the bass. Or my plucking hand I'll develop blisters quickly even though I have guitar callouses. I think they are a bit in a different spot, but also just the thickness of bass strings I guess.

On the fretting hand though, I don't even play chords really. 2 notes at a time maybe, possibly but not likely 3, and definitely never 4.
Last edited by fingrpikingood at Aug 31, 2015,