#1
Hello

I am considered to be a home player.. I usually plug my Ibanez to the BOSS GT8 then to my Matshall VS30R amp. I realized that sound is not at its best simply because the GT8 has preamp simulators and of course the amp has its "bad" preamp... I tried plugging my headphones directly to the GT8 headphone output and guess what.. the sound is way clearer and better.

Now I want to bypass the preamp of my amp to get same clear sound from the amp speaker. I know it is easy to do it with an amp with FX loop in/out. Mine doesn't have... please don't tell me that there is no way to do it !!!!!
#2
Ok, I won't tell you that.

Even if it's true.

Which it is.

Sorry.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#3
you can not do it with your current amp. Best bet is to use the clean channel and set all the eq knobs to noon.

You could add an FX loop, but I doubt you have the skills to do that and paying a tech is not worth it for that amp.
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#4
If you just play at home then buy a $100 pair of M-Audio monitors and plug the Bosss unit into them. No need for an amp.
#5
Lose the VS cause it is getting in the way. The preamp, power amp and speaker design are all wrong for a Digital Multi Effects driving the front end tone. Go with the studio monitor suggestion for home use or a small powered wedge for gig capability.

You can thank us later.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#6
Just a word of caution- in my own experience, monitoring guitar tone on headphones always sounds clearer/better than any other speaker setup that is in a room out loud. I guess everybody has a different opinion; i just wanted to warn you incase you buy some speaker monitors and you think the headphones still sound better (its the same reason a mix tends to sound better in phones vs monitors)
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#8
Quote by mockbel
Hello

I am considered to be a home player.. I usually plug my Ibanez to the BOSS GT8 then to my Matshall VS30R amp. I realized that sound is not at its best simply because the GT8 has preamp simulators and of course the amp has its "bad" preamp... I tried plugging my headphones directly to the GT8 headphone output and guess what.. the sound is way clearer and better.

Now I want to bypass the preamp of my amp to get same clear sound from the amp speaker. I know it is easy to do it with an amp with FX loop in/out. Mine doesn't have... please don't tell me that there is no way to do it !!!!!



You can use the amp as a cabinet, just disconnect the speakers and route it out to a car amplifier (basically a cheap power amp) powered by a PC PSU you may have lying around somewhere or get one for cheap.

Make sure to turn off the GT8's cab emulation unless you're using car speakers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOTjI7FpUKk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhrxuglymGY

#9
Quote by Watterboy
Just a word of caution- in my own experience, monitoring guitar tone on headphones always sounds clearer/better than any other speaker setup that is in a room out loud. I guess everybody has a different opinion; i just wanted to warn you incase you buy some speaker monitors and you think the headphones still sound better (its the same reason a mix tends to sound better in phones vs monitors)


Thanks for that and I noted this yes... However, I posted my thread after recognizing the better tone directly from the GT8 vs the amp both using the headphone...
#10
So I see the direction here is to get rid of my current amp and replace it with a cabinet for time being.. when I reserve some good amount of cash, I can get a tube amp and plug it to the cabinet so I won't lose what I will paid for a cabinet anyways... right??
#11
Quote by mockbel
So I see the direction here is to get rid of my current amp and replace it with a cabinet for time being.. when I reserve some good amount of cash, I can get a tube amp and plug it to the cabinet so I won't lose what I will paid for a cabinet anyways... right??



Actually if you want the cheapest option, probably just change the preamp tube to one that won't break up so easily, maybe a JJ 5751.

Your amp does have a clean channel but it apparently breaks up at volume over 5.

Change the preamp tube, connect the GT8 to the amp, turn off cabinet simulation (if you didn't do that already, which could explain why it sounds good in headphones(with cab emu on) compared to going to the amp.


Try the preamp tube swap first to get better clean headroom. It won't cost you much at all.
#12
Quote by sfx
Actually if you want the cheapest option, probably just change the preamp tube to one that won't break up so easily, maybe a JJ 5751.

Your amp does have a clean channel but it apparently breaks up at volume over 5.

Change the preamp tube, connect the GT8 to the amp, turn off cabinet simulation (if you didn't do that already, which could explain why it sounds good in headphones(with cab emu on) compared to going to the amp.


Try the preamp tube swap first to get better clean headroom. It won't cost you much at all.


I didn't get that... my amp is a solid state amp. How can I replace tube for it?
#13
Quote by mockbel
I didn't get that... my amp is a solid state amp. How can I replace tube for it?



Oh.. looks like it's the lower end model without the preamp tubes, ok then there's not much to do then..
#14
Quote by sfx
Oh.. looks like it's the lower end model without the preamp tubes, ok then there's not much to do then..


You gave me a small beam of light then you shut it off again
#15
Quote by mockbel
You gave me a small beam of light then you shut it off again



ValveState was very confusing, coming from a company like Marshall.... I was under the impression they all are hybrids with preamp tube and solid state power section, didn't know they actually released a full solid state under the ValveState line.
#16
Quote by diabolical
You can't bypass it, unless you know amp tech that can tap the power amp with circuit modification.

The GT-8 should have different output settings, so set it on small amp output, check manual if you're unsure.


I tried this yesterday... actually I am not sure my amp should be considered a small amp or combo amp. However, using the small amp output made the sound coming out directly from the GT8 too bad noisy loud.. the combo amp, JC120 or phone output have more decent sound to the headphone but once plugged in the amp... sound quality goes down dramatically..
#17
Quote by mockbel
I tried this yesterday... actually I am not sure my amp should be considered a small amp or combo amp. However, using the small amp output made the sound coming out directly from the GT8 too bad noisy loud.. the combo amp, JC120 or phone output have more decent sound to the headphone but once plugged in the amp... sound quality goes down dramatically..



Can you give settings you used for the amps you used, and which port of the GT8 you use for plugging into the amp? Don't use the headphones out of the GT8 to connect to your amp, cab emu might be turned on.
#18
I don't know what you've got available in Cairo, but a small powered wedge as suggested above is a good solution.

You could also use a small power amp into the speaker you have, which would at the least eliminate the crap preamp etc. (Although I suspect the speaker isn't much to brag about either.) This would work. http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/prosound-2-channel-200w-power-amplifier-l62bk

For that matter, since you are using a modeler you could plug in to pretty much any home stereo system, since all you need is a clean reproduction of what's coming out of the GT-8.

And yes, the PC power supply and Car audio amp setup above would function, but I'm not sure why you would go to that much trouble when you can buy purpose built gear for less than that would cost you.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Sep 3, 2015,
#19
Quote by sfx
Can you give settings you used for the amps you used, and which port of the GT8 you use for plugging into the amp? Don't use the headphones out of the GT8 to connect to your amp, cab emu might be turned on.


I am using the amp clean channel with bass and treble at the middle... from the GT8 I use the "output" port to the amp . Now I got a small behringer home mixer to plug both guitar and laptop so I plug the "output" port from GT8 to the mixer and then from mixer to the amp and usually plug the headphones to the amp. What I noted and caused me starting this thread is that when I plug the headphones to the mixer output or the GT8 output directly without the amp in between, the sound is way better in the headphones...

So now it is all about the amp and until I get a decent tube amp I can replace the amp with a speaker. What is the difference between guitar speaker cabinet, active monitor and wedge? if any
#20
Quote by mockbel
I tried this yesterday... actually I am not sure my amp should be considered a small amp or combo amp. However, using the small amp output made the sound coming out directly from the GT8 too bad noisy loud.. the combo amp, JC120 or phone output have more decent sound to the headphone but once plugged in the amp... sound quality goes down dramatically..


I guess in your case small or combo, this is just generic acoustic curves that they've provided for different situations, think of it as last stage eq control. I usually go with the one that sounds best and not by the label, so try all

I might be a bit confused on your issue as you keep mentioning headphones. Are you trying to listen in on headphones via the amp's headphone out? Considering this cheap amp that would probably provide the worst sound.

I think your best bet is powered wedge or powered monitor speaker unless you can find a used keyboard amp on the cheap.
#21
Quote by mockbel
I am using the amp clean channel with bass and treble at the middle... from the GT8 I use the "output" port to the amp . Now I got a small behringer home mixer to plug both guitar and laptop so I plug the "output" port from GT8 to the mixer and then from mixer to the amp and usually plug the headphones to the amp. What I noted and caused me starting this thread is that when I plug the headphones to the mixer output or the GT8 output directly without the amp in between, the sound is way better in the headphones...

So now it is all about the amp and until I get a decent tube amp I can replace the amp with a speaker. What is the difference between guitar speaker cabinet, active monitor and wedge? if any



Sounds like a lot of work and not entirely clear.. Here's what I would do with your amp.

1. Bypass the behringer mixer first, leave it out of the chain.
2. With the GT8, only use L (MONO) or R output to the amp.
3. Leave nothing connected to the PHONES socket in GT8.
4. Leave nothing connected to the amp's line out and head phones socket.
5. Amp clean channel, bass/treble 5, volume at 4.

Try and see if it sounds any better with the amp, but if you're already doing it then never mind.

As for the power amp/car amp why I recommended it... because here in Asia we can get a car amp for like... 50 US dollars equivalent... and we tend to have.. a lot of PC PSU lying around.. from old obsolete computers..

That's why I suggested to convert the amp into a cabinet, since the VS30R uses 4 Ohm speakers, just the right ohm range for a car amplifier.
Last edited by sfx at Sep 3, 2015,
#22
Quote by sfx
Sounds like a lot of work and not entirely clear.. Here's what I would do with your amp.

1. Bypass the behringer mixer first, leave it out of the chain.
2. With the GT8, only use L (MONO) or R output to the amp.
3. Leave nothing connected to the PHONES socket in GT8.
4. Leave nothing connected to the amp's line out and head phones socket.
5. Amp clean channel, bass/treble 5, volume at 4.

Try and see if it sounds any better with the amp, but if you're already doing it then never mind.


They is my exact setup before I get the mixer... When I added the mixer to the chain it didn't affect the sound anyway negative
#23
Quote by diabolical
I might be a bit confused on your issue as you keep mentioning headphones. Are you trying to listen in on headphones via the amp's headphone out? Considering this cheap amp that would probably provide the worst sound.


No confusion... forget about headphones. I keep mentioning them just because they are my monitor for the sound and yes I plug them to the amp "Headphone" usually but when I plugged it directly to the mixer, sound was better and that's what raised my concern about the amp and let me ask how to bypass the preamp

Quote by diabolical
I think your best bet is powered wedge or powered monitor speaker unless you can find a used keyboard amp on the cheap.


What is the difference between Guitar cabinet, wedge and active (powered) monitor?
#24
Guitar speakers aren't flat. They are designed to respond in a way that suits guitar. Now with top end modellers they emulate the speakers so you want a flat response speaker. ie. Monitors
The GT-8 is not a top end modeller, hell, my GT-100 has shit cab emulations. So don't go that way.
So what you want is a power amp and a nice speaker and turn off the cab simms (does the GT-8 even have cabinet emulation?). I'd recommend a 6505+ 112 with a Celestion V30. Plug the GT-8 straight into the FX return.
Then if you ever want it, you've got a 6505+. It can't hurt to have a 6505 of some type floating around.
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#25
Quote by Cathbard
Guitar speakers aren't flat. They are designed to respond in a way that suits guitar. Now with top end modellers they emulate the speakers so you want a flat response speaker. ie. Monitors
The GT-8 is not a top end modeller, hell, my GT-100 has shit cab emulations. So don't go that way.
So what you want is a power amp and a nice speaker and turn off the cab simms (does the GT-8 even have cabinet emulation?). I'd recommend a 6505+ 112 with a Celestion V30. Plug the GT-8 straight into the FX return.
Then if you ever want it, you've got a 6505+. It can't hurt to have a 6505 of some type floating around.

Isn't a power amp + Speaker = active monitor or floor wedge??
#26
Yes, except for the speaker itself. A monitor has a flat response speaker, not a guitar speaker.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#27
Quote by Cathbard
Yes, except for the speaker itself. A monitor has a flat response speaker, not a guitar speaker.


And wedge??
I like how wedge looks as it looks more musical.. Monitors like m-audio 30 or 40 look like pc speakers to me.. But in all cases it is recommended to go for speaker rather that guiar cabinet? I was thinking about guiar speaker cabinet to make use of it when I reserve some cash and get a tube amp head
#28
A wedge just refers to its shape. They're flat response PA speakers too.


Those M-Audio ones are desktop monitors. They're just speakers too, no amp.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band