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#1
Hi Guys!

I'd like to ask you for a good recommendation for a good tube amp with at least two channels and good cleans and distortion for metal.

I actually play with a Marshal Class 5 and EH Metal Muff and I love the sound but sometimes I feel I need more volume on the clean side. I never turn the volume knob past 10'o clock cause it gets muddy... and changing from Muff to clean leaves a great gap in volume...
So I was considering buying a new tube amp with separate channels and that can do some metal...

I was thinking on the Blackstar HT Studio 20, but I've read it's not that good for metal and I don't know if the 40 watts model will do better...

Then I thought I should give a try the HT Metal 5watts head with a 2x12 ext but it would cost me the same as a Laney Ironheart IRT30, and 5 watts against 30... laney wins...

I've hear laneys irt do great job with metal and also have good cleans and crunch for rock...

what do you think?

My budget is between 400~500 usd and the reason I ask you opinion is because Im gonna buy it on internet as in my city there arent good stores for music...

I play with a PRS S2 CU24 by the way!

Hope you can help me! Or if you recomend another model Im open to all of your opinions!

If possible, I'd like it to have a master volume knob or watt selecto (like the peavey Valveking) because I mostly play at home and I don't want to be arrested by the cops lol


Thanks
#2
Carvin Belair. 50W, EL84's. Buy it with the Vintage 30 option and break them in.
Gorgeous cleans, two channels. $649 with a 10% discount at the mo'. Over your budget, but close, and an amazing amp.

You didn't include the information we always ask for (location, location, location), so if you can't buy a Carvin Belair where you're at, TFB. http://www.carvinaudio.com/products/belair

There's a set of modifications available for this amp (the instructions, etc., are free, but you'll need to do the mods via your own massive skill set or that of your friendly tech): http://hasserl.com/vt50_mods HIGHLY recommended (I have the Stage II mods in mine).

And yes, it's available as the Nomad in a 1x12 configuration or as the VT50 head.
#3
Marshall DSL40C (used)
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#4
Quote by dspellman
Carvin Belair. 50W, EL84's. Buy it with the Vintage 30 option and break them in.
Gorgeous cleans, two channels. $649 with a 10% discount at the mo'. Over your budget, but close, and an amazing amp.

You didn't include the information we always ask for (location, location, location), so if you can't buy a Carvin Belair where you're at, TFB. http://www.carvinaudio.com/products/belair

There's a set of modifications available for this amp (the instructions, etc., are free, but you'll need to do the mods via your own massive skill set or that of your friendly tech): http://hasserl.com/vt50_mods HIGHLY recommended (I have the Stage II mods in mine).

And yes, it's available as the Nomad in a 1x12 configuration or as the VT50 head.



Thank you!
And sry, forgot to put that info...
Im from Mexico!

And by the way... what about the Carvin V3m head? or combo!
#5
Quote by Maidenheadsteve
Marshall DSL40C (used)


I don't think I'll be able to find a used DSL40c near my place...
But, can It handle Opeth or Megadeth kind of metal?
I've been trying to play some animals as leader also (on 6 string guitar obviously)

I'd love to be able to have good cleans and rock tones but the truth I play mostly Metal and I want it to handle high distortion!
#6
I haven't played the V3M, but the V3 is a very nice amp and I assume they're pretty close. I would pick one over the Belair for metal type playing. The combo is probably more cost effective, it would be hard to find a decent 1x12 cab and speaker for the difference in price between the head and combo.

You're probably right to shy away from the really small (5W) amps for metal. It's not impossible to make a good, low-watt metal amp, but it's a whole lot easier to make a great 50W metal amp, and since you need more headroom anyway there's really no point in looking at amps in that power range. The Studio 40 is a decent enough amp but as you say it's not really metal oriented. There are tons of metal type amps in your price range, there's no reason you can't get something that's made exactly for what you want.

Other options would be the 6505 112 or 6505 Micro, Bugera 333 or 6262, maybe the 50 watt Jet City if it's on sale (happens frequently). You might be able to snag a Mini Rectifier if you buy used and stretch your budget a bit.
#7
Quote by Roc8995
I haven't played the V3M, but the V3 is a very nice amp and I assume they're pretty close. I would pick one over the Belair for metal type playing. The combo is probably more cost effective, it would be hard to find a decent 1x12 cab and speaker for the difference in price between the head and combo.

You're probably right to shy away from the really small (5W) amps for metal. It's not impossible to make a good, low-watt metal amp, but it's a whole lot easier to make a great 50W metal amp, and since you need more headroom anyway there's really no point in looking at amps in that power range. The Studio 40 is a decent enough amp but as you say it's not really metal oriented. There are tons of metal type amps in your price range, there's no reason you can't get something that's made exactly for what you want.

Other options would be the 6505 112 or 6505 Micro, Bugera 333 or 6262, maybe the 50 watt Jet City if it's on sale (happens frequently). You might be able to snag a Mini Rectifier if you buy used and stretch your budget a bit.


wow... never heard of the mini rectifier... pretty impressive...
Stretching maybe I could buy it for in 3 or 4 more months...

I also looked into the Jet Ciry JCA20 but it lacks the clean chanel

Do you think 50 tube watts are ok for a mostly home player?

And by the way... no one talks about the laney IRT30... is it a bad option?

Peavey 6505 I don't know if it's in my range :/... but I'll give it a try, but does it have good cleans?
Last edited by carpercen at Sep 8, 2015,
#8
Quote by carpercen
I don't think I'll be able to find a used DSL40c near my place...
But, can It handle Opeth or Megadeth kind of metal?
I've been trying to play some animals as leader also (on 6 string guitar obviously)

I'd love to be able to have good cleans and rock tones but the truth I play mostly Metal and I want it to handle high distortion!


My JCM, although different than the DSL40 can easily handle Opeth and Megadeth. I have 3 tube heads, two of which are 100 watts and the Orange is 30 watts, all are used at home only. They all have master volumes so theres that.
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#9
Quote by Roc8995
I haven't played the V3M, but the V3 is a very nice amp and I assume they're pretty close. I would pick one over the Belair for metal type playing. The combo is probably more cost effective, it would be hard to find a decent 1x12 cab and speaker for the difference in price between the head and combo. .


If what you're really after is a metal amp, the V3M would be fine, and I'd probably pick one over an unmodified Belair purely for metal.

But the 1x12 version of that is $729 and I don't think the cleans are anywhere near what they are on the Belair.
#10
I recently got a Laney IRT 30 1x12 and I love it. Nice cleans and a very dynamic range of distortion for the price. They are slightly out of your price range new, but I got mine used for 550 usd on ebay so it possible to get them cheaper now I would think.
#11
Quote by carpercen

Do you think 50 tube watts are ok for a mostly home player?


Depends on how quietly you have to play and if you're willing to use preamp distortion. assuming you're willing to turn it down you can normally get them as quiet as 5 watt tube amps turned down. whether that's quiet enough is the thing. but yeah i'm guessing if you can get your class 5 quiet enough (i haven't tried it) then it should probably be ok.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#12
One thing I forgot to mention on the Laney IRT 30 is that it has power attenuation which is great for bedroom settings.
#13
oh man... too many options and not being able to try any of them...

I really don't know what to do...
#14
I'm just a man cave player these days, and I like to keep my volume at not much more than acoustic guitar levels. I've gone clean plus pedals - H&K Stm Dual El84 and bright-modded Epi VJ, plus assorted stomp boxes. The SS-assisted gain channel on the H&K is pretty good for Marshall-type OD sounds at low volume, but I only use the clean channel.
#15
Quote by carpercen
oh man... too many options and not being able to try any of them...

I really don't know what to do...



better than no options

which ever way you go make sure you leave a little in the budget to get yourself an overdrive. you'll be able to tighten up the sound and get a better overdrive sound even at low volumes. i use a 50 watter for practice (peavey valveking) and do fine with it. sure you can't crank it but with an overdrive i can get some decent tones for practice
#16
Quote by monwobobbo
better than no options

which ever way you go make sure you leave a little in the budget to get yourself an overdrive. you'll be able to tighten up the sound and get a better overdrive sound even at low volumes. i use a 50 watter for practice (peavey valveking) and do fine with it. sure you can't crank it but with an overdrive i can get some decent tones for practice


Hey! Now that you mention that...
I recently read that running a distortion pedal trough a tube amp is pointless.. i really didn't understand the reason... But I read people said, that running an overdrive pedal instead of a distortion one would get nasty metal tones... how is that possible?

How overdrive can generate good metal tones?

And by the way... how good is the valveking? I also was thiking about buyin a 50 combo or the 20watts head but I don't know how good it handless distortion!


P.D.
I just see that I can apply for paypal credit sistem... I'm gonna do soem research about it... If I get a credit line maybe I could buy a MiniRectifier...!

How good is it anyway? for what I see and hear about mesa boogie, that little thing would eat any of the other options listed here for cleans, crunch and distorted sounds!
#17
Quote by carpercen
Hey! Now that you mention that...
I recently read that running a distortion pedal trough a tube amp is pointless.. i really didn't understand the reason... But I read people said, that running an overdrive pedal instead of a distortion one would get nasty metal tones... how is that possible?

How overdrive can generate good metal tones?

And by the way... how good is the valveking? I also was thiking about buyin a 50 combo or the 20watts head but I don't know how good it handless distortion!


P.D.
I just see that I can apply for paypal credit sistem... I'm gonna do soem research about it... If I get a credit line maybe I could buy a MiniRectifier...!

How good is it anyway? for what I see and hear about mesa boogie, that little thing would eat any of the other options listed here for cleans, crunch and distorted sounds!


a distortion pedal mimics an overdriven amp. now some guys may only have a 1 channel amp or an amp that doesn't do high gain (metal) tones so they do use a distortion pedal. ideally though you want a high gain amp (like those recommened to you) and use an overdrive pedal with it. the VK has a decent distortion channel but once you get past old school metal it really isn't ideal. with a decent overdrive pedal you can get say megadeth or similar. once you get into the more modern metal sounds it's not the first choice in amps to go with.

mini rectifier is supposed to be good (haven't tried one yet). the full size amp is of course one of the mainstays of modern metal (along with peavey 6505+)
#18
There's nothing wrong with using a distortion or overdrive pedal in front of a tube amp. You can get some awesome sounds doing it, especially if you need to keep the volume low. The Distortion/Overdrive distinction is vague, especially in high-gain settings, so don't worry too much about it.

The Valveking is probably low on your list. When it first came out it was the cheapest full-sized tube amp available, and it got a lot of people started on "real" big amps, but there are lots of better options now. It's not bad, but in your price range you'll probably find lots of amps you like better.

Quote by dspellman
If what you're really after is a metal amp, the V3M would be fine, and I'd probably pick one over an unmodified Belair purely for metal.

But the 1x12 version of that is $729 and I don't think the cleans are anywhere near what they are on the Belair.

It seems like this amp will be primarily for metal, and if they're getting into some heavily downtuned stuff like Animals as Leaders I worry that the Belair just isn't going to hold together in the bass. I haven't played a modified one but I have to assume that the vintage-style EL84 output section wasn't designed with 7-string riffs in mind. I also hesitate to tell someone to buy a brand new amp and then void the warranty with mods that might turn it into the amp they actually want. If they already liked the Belair and just want some improvement, or if it were their #3 amp for experimenting, sure, but I'm not convinced it's a good solution in this case. That's why I'm deferring to an amp that does what was requested out of the box.
#19
I've seen many used Peavey JSX 212 combos in your price range on Guitar Center's website. I would think they could ship to Mexico.

The JSX is a seriously awesome amp that should easily cover the genres you're after. The ultra channel can get pretty gnarly -- certainly Opeth levels of gain and beyond. The lead sounds are amazing, which is the amp's selling point, but it sounded very satisfying on chugs when I tried one. The cleans are superb as well. I didnt spend any time on low/medium gain settings so im not sure how it does witb those, but i think itll cover those tones as well.
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#20
Quote by KailM
I've seen many used Peavey JSX 212 combos in your price range on Guitar Center's website. I would think they could ship to Mexico.

The JSX is a seriously awesome amp that should easily cover the genres you're after. The ultra channel can get pretty gnarly -- certainly Opeth levels of gain and beyond. The lead sounds are amazing, which is the amp's selling point, but it sounded very satisfying on chugs when I tried one. The cleans are superb as well. I didnt spend any time on low/medium gain settings so im not sure how it does witb those, but i think itll cover those tones as well.


yes it will cover less distorted tones just fine. the JSX is an upgraded version of the Ultra which is what i use. the clean channel is pretty good and the crunch is really good. the JSX has seperate tone controls for each channel (Ultra has shared tone controls for crunch and ultra channels sperate for clean).
#21
i would look into (as mentioned) a marshall DSL40, carvin V3 (i haven't tried the V3M either) or peavey ultra/XXX/JSX first.
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#22
Quote by dspellman
If what you're really after is a metal amp, the V3M would be fine, and I'd probably pick one over an unmodified Belair purely for metal.

But the 1x12 version of that is $729 and I don't think the cleans are anywhere near what they are on the Belair.



head for head the Carvin V3m will match the cleans on the Carvin VT50 , I've side by sided them with Celestion V30's , Carvin GT's and Eminence Swamp Thangs
#23
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i would look into (as mentioned) a marshall DSL40, carvin V3 (i haven't tried the V3M either) or peavey ultra/XXX/JSX first.


How god would the Marshall handle those kind of metal I'm after?

Opeth, AAL, Megadeth, Necrophagist?
#24
Between the Marshall DSL40c and the Mesa Boogie MiniRectifie 25w, which one wins?
#25
Carpercen, do not get a valveking. They have terrible/hardly any distortion (at least mine did). They aren't good for metal. I'd go with a 6505+ 112. That's what I'm getting tomorrow. The 6505+ 112 should be able to cover any genre of metal, just doesnt have the best clean tones from what I've heard.
#26
Quote by carpercen
Hey! Now that you mention that...
I recently read that running a distortion pedal trough a tube amp is pointless.. i really didn't understand the reason... But I read people said, that running an overdrive pedal instead of a distortion one would get nasty metal tones... how is that possible?

How overdrive can generate good metal tones?


There's no problem at all with using a distortion pedal with a tube amp. Loads of players do it, and it can sound great. It sort of stems from a misunderstanding of how pedals and amps work, a lot of players think an overdrive pedal just pushes the amp and is more "natural" while a distortion pedal adds all its own distortion hence sort of negating the point of having tubes.

That's partly flat-out wrong and partly a massive oversimplification.

That being said, for a lot of modern metal tones, it's true that using an overdrive pedal with a modern high gain amp will get better results ("better" meaning sounding closer to how you want it to). The overdrive is used on top of the amp's distortion, generally with the gain control on the pedal set low and the volume control set high, to boost and tighten the distortion which the amp is already producing. That's how what looks like a low gain pedal like an overdrive is producing a metal tone- it's not, it's just augmenting and adding to what's already there. If you use a tubescreamer into a clean channel it won't sound metal at all.

For what it's worth I also would be very, very wary about getting into debt for something which is a fun purchase. Personally I'd only spend what is genuinely disposable income on guitar stuff, unless it's your job and something breaks which you need to replace or you can't work.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 10, 2015,
#27
Quote by Fumble fingers
head for head the Carvin V3m will match the cleans on the Carvin VT50 , I've side by sided them with Celestion V30's , Carvin GT's and Eminence Swamp Thangs


I've only listened to the two with Celestion V30's. And I, apparently, did not hear what you did.
#28
Quote by dspellman
I've only listened to the two with Celestion V30's. And I, apparently, did not hear what you did.



no doubt .... a V3m is not a amp you can dial in in 5 minutes like the Vintage series ,
#29
And what about the 6505 mini head 20 watts? I've heard it doesnt have very good cleans but on youtube videos it doesn't sounds that bad either!

Right now I'm between the Peavey 6505 minihead, Marshal DSL40 and Laney irt30...
Maybe... I could get a good deal on a rectifier... maybe.. but I'd have to buy it on ebay and thus I'd have to pay taxes...

What do you think guys?
#30
Hey! I want to add the Mesa Boogie Simple Rectifier 50watts head to the list!
What do you think of this one guys? can I use it at bedroom levels? Is it worth it? Can I get good cleans and metal sounds out of it?
#33
Quote by carpercen
and changing from Muff to clean leaves a great gap in volume...


While you should buy a new amp, you should also learn to use a distortion pedal with a clean amp. There is a reason why there is a level (post gain) control on the pedal. You adjust that to get the proper balance between clean (pedal off) and distorted (pedal on). For future reference in case a similar situation arises.
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#34
Quote by theogonia777
While you should buy a new amp, you should also learn to use a distortion pedal with a clean amp. There is a reason why there is a level (post gain) control on the pedal. You adjust that to get the proper balance between clean (pedal off) and distorted (pedal on). For future reference in case a similar situation arises.


The problem with the Class 5 is that it's no pure clean... as it gets crunch while you turn the volume up, when I pass the clean part of it and enter crunch territory and add the distortion, it gets muddy... When I use the Distortion only on the clean spectrum of the amp, it sounds godo but clean volume is low, thus I have to crank volume distortion up
#35
Quote by carpercen
The problem with the Class 5 is that it's no pure clean... as it gets crunch while you turn the volume up, when I pass the clean part of it and enter crunch territory and add the distortion, it gets muddy... When I use the Distortion only on the clean spectrum of the amp, it sounds godo but clean volume is low, thus I have to crank volume distortion up



I have a class5 and it gets a little crunchy at higher volumes, it is the idea of the amp after all. To add distortion to that just dial in less from the pedal, I'd say probably half.
I got some great sounds with mine using AMT DT-2 which is a very high gain pedal. I just set it up at about 2 and with the amp crunch it was reminiscent of some of the Death sounds Chuck used to get.

The Mesa Mini is great, I'd recommend over the DSL40C any day. Awesome cleans and thrashtastic high gain.
#36
gah i meant "gain low and volume high", not both of them high Have edited my original post.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#37
Well... this is harder than I thougt... It's giving me headache haha!
I'll try to be realistic...

I'm in the price range of the Peavey 6505 minihead...
But I could try to get the Laney IRT30 also...

That being said, in that price range (the laney range) I could afford a used mini rectifier, but I don't know... buying used from USA to Mexico on ebay... I'd hate to open the box once it arrives and found that it doesn't work... plus, if I buy it... I'd have to wait another month to buy a cab... But I really dig the mini rectifier...

I also read about the H&K tubemeister 18, seem good, but made in china and people says it's not real valve...

right now, Im half the road for the Mini Rectifier... If I manage to sell my class 5, i'll be line 150 usd below it's price!
#38
I'd go with the Marshall DSL40. I played one at guitarcenter earlier today and it was amazing! Very good distortion and amazing cleans. I didn't end up getting it unfortunately due to limited funds but it seemed like a very versatile amp.
#39
If you're looking into tube amps, are you looking for distortion via overdrive or a more aggressive metal distortion? If the later, than why not look into a desireable distortion pedal to use on your amp's clean channel/settings? I do this with my set-up...clean, amp overdrive, and distortion via pedal(s). This gives you a lot of diversity.
#40
Mini Rectifier is fantastic, don't overthink it, go for it! I wish I did 2 years ago, just got mine.

Here's quick demo:
https://soundcloud.com/egregoreband/mesa-mini-goofing-off-2

The clean is great too, I just happened to lock into its thrash tones and forgot about it
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