janitors: the most unassuming security secret task force. or maybe actual security

#1
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/15/us/mississippi-delta-state-shooting/index.html

basically, shooting at uni, it was a professor. So arguments for teachers having a weapon to protect class from shooter, maybe wouldn't work since they kill their colleagues on campus as well


Or have tighter gun control policies.
Even if they have to stay legal amnd not forever banned, because heaven forbid America takes the principles of the Constitution and the bill of rights be adapted to fit current nation needs

Policies I think that would be important, without restricting gun use:

1) Always background checks (even in gun shows). This includes:


-any sort of police record. Juvenile, jail or prison. Even if there's a post-it note that says "can get angry if not calmed down" or any other note, it has to be involved in the background check

-there needs to be a psych evaluation performed by a trained and licensed psych worker

-there needs to be a psych evaluation performed by an out-patient psych worker
here is the reason: don't wnt the gun psych to give ok's in order to boost sales. Also don't want to run the risk of an outpatient psych being manipulated and bribed etc. The two evaluations both need to have the dangers and/or possibilities or motivations for violence, and an "ok". Any conflicting information needs to be resolved and explained by the psych who evaluated.

On any application form, whether it be a resume, a uni student, part of any other institution that has an organised "Member Info" (emergency contact details, allergies, etc), these things need to be confirmed:

A) Whether or not you have a legitimate, unexpired gun license (license would have to be renewed every five years with psych eval, the same way you would have to re-pass the test if you vision differences, or are just 80 years old, or whatever, to make sure you are still qualified and safe.
If there is a man who has qualified for a rifle license, and before his next licence retake, he is diagnosed with Parkinson's, but with appropriate medication (cogentin, which minimises the tremors or stiffness or those things, and it's used already for parkinson's), he still is not allowed to renew the license. Other necessary verification would be if the person could handle the kickback on an automatic weapon, and that they know the rate of fire for their gun, so they don't have an overheat accident.


B) Do you own a firearm

C) Brand, model, any mods (things like silencer, extended magazine, which I don't know why you need those unless you are a criminal idk)

D) It it concealed on person, and is it in a gun safe (both should be 'yes' realy)

Probably things as well, asking about collections and stuff like that


I know there could be cries of "ahh now the government knows everything about me!" as if biometric passports and social security information is somehow not as valuable idk.


It is extreme, and it could be altered, but I can't find any situation where it would be a problem


other thing: hunting license, and I might have it be bow, rife, shotgun license as wellNot gonna use a bow for quail, or a shotgun for deer)and some sort of hunting season registration (like a car registers from '15 to '16)


I know gun control stuff is a weird topic here because it gets to be "america is the worst, europe is so much better!" and then you get countries who are refusing syrian refugees because they are muslim.

If there are glaring errors in this, give a reaons and offer an alternative. I cannot believe that this system would compromise anything. You use guns for hunting and for self-defence. I can't imagine an instance where you would need more than that, unless it was a full on occupation

You still can have a gun to satisfy the 2nd amendment argument, and I would hope at least that gun crime would decrease, and the police wouldn't need to have a last stand COD perk that is from fifty feet. If the guy doesn't have a gun, you taser at range, and baton close.


???


thoughts and opinions and pls at lesat one page of decent conversation would be good. After that, do whatever


will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
Last edited by Baby Joel at Sep 15, 2015,
#2
The gun homicide rate's actually dropped by nearly 50% since 1993.
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#3
ok well that's good enough. no reason to try to have it decrease more.


and obviously, as with a lot of my self-righteous tirades, this is an ideal. It won't work this well in practice. There will be another flaw. But I think this system helps more than hurts.
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#4
Quote by Baby Joel
ok well that's good enough. no reason to try to have it decrease more.


and obviously, as with a lot of my self-righteous tirades, this is an ideal. It won't work this well in practice. There will be another flaw. But I think this system helps more than hurts.

Most likely that there will be a significant shortfall in the number of qualified medical psych practitioners to administer the tests. Or the qualifications would be pretty much "spells own name correctly best 2 of 3".
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#5
guns are murder


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#6
Police record? Psych evaluation? I can't buy a gun from Shady Jim at the gun show for 100 dollars with the serial number scratched off?

I feel I'm personally being oppressed, I thought this was America.

other thing: hunting license, and I might have it be bow, rife, shotgun license as wellNot gonna use a bow for quail, or a shotgun for deer)and some sort of hunting season registration (like a car registers from '15 to '16)

The **** wouldn't you use a bow for quail or a shotgun for deer?

This is the second time someone thought it was strange to use a shotgun for deer, you can use a shotgun, from shooting a duck to shooting a bear, it's a versatile weapon. Both shotgun and bow season are popular for deer hunting. Bow is popular because anyone can buy a bow, even felons in the meth'd out midwest. Shotgun is popular because shotguns.

And for any animal that's worth a damn and not a pest you have to buy tags for so conservation can track how many are killed.

D) It it concealed on person, and is it in a gun safe (both should be 'yes' realy)

Gun safe's are fine, but Idk anyone who carries a concealed firearm, Usually you put a gun in a gun case, put the gun case in your trunk.
Last edited by stratkat at Sep 15, 2015,
#7
Quote by stratkat
Police record? Psych evaluation? I can't buy a gun from Shady Jim at the gun show for 100 dollars with the serial number scratched off?

I feel I'm personally being oppressed, I thought this was America.


The **** wouldn't you use a bow for quail or a shotgun for deer?

This is the second time someone thought it was strange to use a shotgun for deer, you can use a shotgun, from shooting a duck to shooting a bear, it's a versatile weapon. Both shotgun and bow season are popular for deer hunting. Bow is popular because anyone can buy a bow, even felons in the meth'd out midwest. Shotgun is popular because shotguns.

And for any animal that's worth a damn and not a pest you have to buy tags for so conservation can track how many are killed.
The main thing is to have the appropriate ammo for what you're hunting.


Far right is for deer and people.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#8
Who pays for all those requirements? Or is it only the wealthy that deserve the right to self-defense?

Really, there's too much crap here to even bother with. You've not thought this through nearly as well as you would like to think you have.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#9
Quote by slapsymcdougal
The main thing is to have the appropriate ammo for what
you're hunting.
(Invalid img)
Far right is for deer and people.

Hm....most people use slugs for deer, yes.

Appropriate gauge and shot is important, if you want to eat what your killing, but don't care about the fur. If you just wanna kill it I guess it doesn't matter as much.
Last edited by stratkat at Sep 15, 2015,
#10
Quote by ErikLensherr at #33596583
The gun homicide rate's actually dropped by nearly 50% since 1993.

gangsta rap kills
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#11
Bureaucracy solves everything

But what's that about a janitor being a secret crime fighter, cuz that was the plot of Hong Kong Phooey
Last edited by EyeNon15 at Sep 15, 2015,
#12
Quote by stratkat
Hm....most people use slugs for deer, yes.

Appropriate gauge and shot is important, if you want to eat what your killing, but don't care about the fur. If you just wanna kill it I guess it doesn't matter as much.

TBH, if you're not planning on a clean kill with one shot, you shouldn't go hunting. Or you should hunt naked with nothing but your teeth as weapons.

Quote by Burgery
gangsta rap kills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICG0MuzEYzw
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#13
Quote by slapsymcdougal
TBH, if you're not planning on a clean kill with one shot, you shouldn't go hunting. Or you should hunt naked with nothing but your teeth as weapons.

#14
Quote by stratkat

"Don't just kill it with fire, kill it with ALL THE FIRE"
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#15
ok guys things I have learnt

People don't like having money spent in ways that are beneficial because it takes something else away

I'm cool with 60% of gun-related deaths as an act of suicide. why not

The idea of a gun safe is good, but I need to access my gun in that moment. Even though accidental deaths within the home are caused an accessible weapon being misused. Kids under 14 total a hundred of the various accidental deaths. But you know where the magazine is so you know you can make it non-lethal etc. Nothing like a story of someone emptying the mag to say "not loaded" and then forgot the bullet in the chamber that went through his head.

Studies have shown that in some cases, the gun increases the danger for the victim, as the intruders have access to it then.


The best way to eliminate accidental deaths via gun, in America, is to have no guns in the house.

Lack of knowledge of the kick back or the overheat or the spray of bullets being uncontrollable (unless properly trained) isn't a problem. next time I have a kid try out a 12 gauge double barrel I'm not going to tell him to not fire both at the same time. He could lose his arm, but whatever, instruction for license isn't a problem.

Detailed registration shows in better details who has a gun license, where is their gun, and what is it, but no reason to do that. It's expensive and not worthwhile to know where guns are and what type.

Increased awareness and response to mental disorders isn't an issue. Guys are pretty chill their whole life, not gonna suddenly flip and gun down ny china town.

Making sure that people can use their legal weapon, safely, and consistently, really isn't a problem. If you're a dead eye at 25, you're a dead-eye with bifoculs and cataracts.

Doesn't matter if I am able to use various accessories such as silencers, extended mag, modded AK gun, because "I Am Responsible". In what situation do you feel necessary, as an American, to have a scope and a silencer fitted onto your rifle?


I'm using extreme examples because it is an extreme thing. Someone's ability to live close to the edge without passing it is less valuable than the person who stays as far away from danger as he can.


god bless america
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#16
Quote by stratkat


Gun safe's are fine, but Idk anyone who carries a concealed firearm, Usually you put a gun in a gun case, put the gun case in your trunk.

conealed firearms are not illegal in several states
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#17
Quote by Baby Joel
ok guys things I have learnt

People don't like having money spent in ways that are beneficial because it takes something else away

I'm cool with 60% of gun-related deaths as an act of suicide. why not

The idea of a gun safe is good, but I need to access my gun in that moment. Even though accidental deaths within the home are caused an accessible weapon being misused. Kids under 14 total a hundred of the various accidental deaths. But you know where the magazine is so you know you can make it non-lethal etc. Nothing like a story of someone emptying the mag to say "not loaded" and then forgot the bullet in the chamber that went through his head.

Studies have shown that in some cases, the gun increases the danger for the victim, as the intruders have access to it then.


The best way to eliminate accidental deaths via gun, in America, is to have no guns in the house.

Lack of knowledge of the kick back or the overheat or the spray of bullets being uncontrollable (unless properly trained) isn't a problem. next time I have a kid try out a 12 gauge double barrel I'm not going to tell him to not fire both at the same time. He could lose his arm, but whatever, instruction for license isn't a problem.

Detailed registration shows in better details who has a gun license, where is their gun, and what is it, but no reason to do that. It's expensive and not worthwhile to know where guns are and what type.

Increased awareness and response to mental disorders isn't an issue. Guys are pretty chill their whole life, not gonna suddenly flip and gun down ny china town.

Making sure that people can use their legal weapon, safely, and consistently, really isn't a problem. If you're a dead eye at 25, you're a dead-eye with bifoculs and cataracts.

Doesn't matter if I am able to use various accessories such as silencers, extended mag, modded AK gun, because "I Am Responsible". In what situation do you feel necessary, as an American, to have a scope and a silencer fitted onto your rifle?


I'm using extreme examples because it is an extreme thing. Someone's ability to live close to the edge without passing it is less valuable than the person who stays as far away from danger as he can.


god bless america


You're not "using extreme examples", you're just exposing your ignorance.

I'll address only the last two, just for the sake of brevity.

Scopes are used both for competition and for hunting. Magnifying optics have been around a very long time, is it your serious contention that they are contributing to crime?

Suppressors don't "silence" a weapon. This isn't Hollywood nor a video game. They reduce the volume to a more reasonable level, and are in fact required in some of the overseas jurisdictions you seem to admire for this very reason. There has never been a crime committed with a legally owned suppressor, and banning them won't change the illegally owned ones a bit. Given that "excess noise" is one of the reasons anti-gun folks frequently give for not wanting gun ranges near them, it would seem that they would then support suppressors, if of course they weren't actually more interested in completely eliminating guns than in finding solutions for their own issues.

Neither of these items contribute to crime, yet you have a problem with them. One wonders if you gave this any thought at all?

Gun ownership is on the rise, and has been for quite some time. Concealed carry has increased dramatically in the past several years. Gun crime is on the decline. While it's not been established that these are causally linked, it does tend to show that your complaints are based on an exiguous knowledge rather than an excess.

I'd be happy to address all your points elsewhere if you actually wish to examine the full issue, as there's no real value in doing so here. It's been done, it's always a shitstorm, why bother?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#18
Quote by Baby Joel

I know there could be cries of "ahh now the government knows everything about me!" as if biometric passports and social security information is somehow not as valuable idk.
:

Well probably not, I mean its not enough for a black woman to have a drivers license and a registered BMW for her story to be believed by sworn police officers so....let's chip all the Americans like dogs
#19
Why is registering a gun license, firearm type, and mental health (or at least a previous record) not something you would track?

Fingerprinting, biometric passports, sex offender lists; what part of the gun registration do you want to change? What part is more 'extreme' than the others?

America regulates and documents nearly everything, but the gun is too far? Because I can cross state lines to a gun show, get one without background check, and then go back to my state where it is illegal, why would we want to moderate that?



I'd be happy to address all your points elsewhere if you actually wish to examine the full issue, as there's no real value in doing so here. It's been done, it's always a shitstorm, why bother?

I am totally fine recognising that the psych testing would be too expensive to be worth it. I understand that I am not able to change the US Budget to put more money into social safeties.

But how is gun licensing more extreme that cars? I have neighbours that regularly swap plates because they grow and sell marijuana. Easy way to get out of the chase is stick a Maryland plate on your Virginia car. It's a simple way to evade cops, at least in some measure.

To be trained on how to appropriately use scissor lifts and cranes, why not pistols and rifles? Just because you have a car license doesn't mean you are legally allowed to drive a semi. You have to be trained and licensed.


I'm not asking for guns to be banned. I am trying to figure out a way that helps gun knowledge. It doesn't eliminate gun crime, or any crime, but it's a safety check. There is a reason Israel won't let you into the country with a passport that has a Syrian seven day visa.


Well probably not, I mean its not enough for a black woman to have a drivers license and a registered BMW for her story to be believed by sworn police officers so....let's chip all the Americans like dogs

and I totally agree with this. I don't agree that she was sent to a psych ward, because her claims weren't verified. If you have suspicion, you contain, investigate possibility, and then release if appropriate. Innocent until proven guilty. The more information about this type of police tracking is so that you aren't implicated in a crime. Having your prints, car registration, license, passport info and DNA registered into a system is how policing works.


ignore all the weapon restrictions, ignore whatever. Why is a registering system that is detailed, be wrong?
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#20
Quote by Baby Joel
ignore all the weapon restrictions, ignore whatever. Why is a registering system that is detailed, be wrong?


Because the potential for abuse is incredible.

Let's ignore that historically Gov'ts (including our own) don't have an awesome track record of carefully guarding and not misusing information and just focus on a much more timely "what if".

Recently the OPM was hacked, ostensibly by the Chinese, and there are serious concerns that the data stolen could be used even many years in the future to blackmail not only the persons in the records but their children etc.

Surely you can see how a vastly more extensive database could have grievous repercussions if the data were to fall into the wrong hands?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#21
I used to put my social security number in my wallet cause I could never remember. I was an idiot, but I knew what would happen. It's not there anymore, but the government already has information about us, and it is exploited through fraud.
:/

There's a chance for abuse of any system. What's the ratio of facism and anarchy that is ideal for America?

when is the intended outcome changed because the cost isn't ideal?
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
Last edited by Baby Joel at Sep 16, 2015,
#22
Quote by Baby Joel
I used to put my social security number in my wallet cause I could never remember.

:/

There's a chance for abuse of any system. What's the ratio of facism and anarchy that is ideal for America?


Do you realize how incredibly facile that is?

"Did you know that Pol Pot presided over the killings of 1.5 million people?"

"Well, there's a chance for abuse of any system..."


FFS!

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#23
I'm not saying that the chance of abuse immediately shuts everything down.

What I am saying, is "how much do I trust the government with my info in the event it will protect me" vs "How much of my beliefs am I ok changing to accept others, in the event that I hope they will do the same for me?"

both extremes are awful, but what balance is appropriate?
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#24
someone can use my passport as identity fraud. Because inherently every ID system can be hacked in some way, do we abandon identification? I think that's stupid. But then how do I know that my paycheck is legitimate, when someone with a computer can change who I am and manipulate?

repeat for literally any situation ever. find the balance
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#25
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Most likely that there will be a significant shortfall in the number of qualified medical psych practitioners to administer the tests. Or the qualifications would be pretty much "spells own name correctly best 2 of 3".

this is about the first thing that went through my head when I read that. I believe there really good psychiatrists out there. I believe quacks outnumber them 100 to 1
#26
I'm not a baby joel hater, but yeah it's kinda clear you have little to no knowledge of guns and definitely have no background or experience with them, because you're assuming problems with them that simply don't exist as it's common sense; and you also suggested things that are already in place lol. Like hunting licenses? You didn't think somebody already came up with that? There are also specific seasons for bow, muzzle-loader (aka musket), and using dogs. So did you just freeball this shit and make it up as you go or did you waste time plotting it out in your head without ever thinking to research

then again, growing up with and around guns gives you some knowledge that i guess you couldn't know without at least talking about it with someone with actual experience with firearms. like recoil... you serious? almost everyone will shoot a lower caliber gun before a high caliber and know what to expect. And if you are using something too big for you, you would think you or hopefully anyone around you with any semblance of common sense would prevent you from using it. unless it's that girl and you're filming her shoot a desert eagle

also... automatic weapons are legal for civilians?

#27
Quote by SaintsofNowhere

also... automatic weapons are legal for civilians?

it's not a federal law, but some states do and others don't


I definitely don't know everything or much of guns. So the reaction has been good I've been in a very interesting state of mind this past week with side effets of med changes and stuff, and I regret the hostility I had. It is easy for me to spew my ideals, and it's hard for me to recognise it isn't always possible. In the same way it seems like every fatality is white cop shooting, I do the same with gun control. Headline sensationalism is toxic and I make it a crusade to change.

so definitely, thanks to arby and SoN and others. calling me out is good.


will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#28
Quote by SaintsofNowhere


also... automatic weapons are legal for civilians?


Well, yes, at least on a Federal level. State laws vary.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin