#1
Hello, I have a Seagull with an LR Baggs Lyric microphone installed. The mic itself sounds amazing, far better than any pickup I've tried but I can't seem to get it loud enough when playing with a band. I am hoping someone has some tips for me here. I was thinking getting a D/I box might help me, at the moment I am going straight into the desk with a jack to jack lead and thought a D/I might be better than that. I've also thought about using a jack to XLR lead straight into the desk. Would either of these options give me more volume?

Also, I am using a feedback buster so that isn't the big issue here.
Last edited by derek8520 at Sep 16, 2015,
#3
Can't get loud enough because of feedback issues or just running out of gain with everything maxed?

I can always get enough gain with my Seagull/Baggs rig but we have to be very mindful of stage volume. At a certain point the soundboard resonates at Ab so we have to keep stage volumes down some to control this. Sometimes just standing on the opposite side of the stage from the bass player and rolling off the bass in your monitor is enough to eliminate soundboard resonance.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Sep 17, 2015,
#4
Quote by derek8520
Hello, I have a Seagull with an LR Baggs Lyric microphone installed. The mic itself sounds amazing, far better than any pickup I've tried but I can't seem to get it loud enough when playing with a band. I am hoping someone has some tips for me here. I was thinking getting a D/I box might help me, at the moment I am going straight into the desk with a jack to jack lead and thought a D/I might be better than that. I've also thought about using a jack to XLR lead straight into the desk. Would either of these options give me more volume?

Also, I am using a feedback buster so that isn't the big issue here.

Quote by Cajundaddy
Can't get loud enough because of feedback issues or just running out of gain with everything maxed?

I can always get enough gain with my Seagull/Baggs rig but we have to be very mindful of stage volume. At a certain point the soundboard resonates at Ab so we have to keep stage volumes down some to control this. Sometimes just standing on the opposite side of the stage from the bass player and rolling off the bass in your monitor is enough to eliminate soundboard resonance.
OK. If you'll take a moment to review the OP, you'll see the TS "can't seem to get it loud enough", and for him, "feedback is NOT a problem".

It occurs to me, most pickup makers can, and do, supply preamps to go with their bare pickups. (My quick and dirty solution is an inline preamp, since you can EQ the guitar at the board).

If we assume the guitar rig is played in a band which works the same location ad infinitum, (unlikely), then relocating equipment would be a possible solution, at least specific to a feedback issue.

However, as I said before, the TS states, "feedback isn't a problem", and hence this arouses this my curiosity, as to why there seems to be such a chasm of disconnect, between ,the question asked, and the answer you supplied.

Whether or not feedback 'will become a problem", is sort of a 'we'll cross that bridge when we come to it', non issue ATM.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Sep 17, 2015,
#5
Quote by Captaincranky
OK. If you'll take a moment to review the OP, you'll see the TS "can't seem to get it loud enough", and for him, "feedback is NOT a problem".

It occurs to me, most pickup makers can, and do, supply preamps to go with their bare pickups. (My quick and dirty solution is an inline preamp, since you can EQ the guitar at the board).

If we assume the guitar rig is played in a band which works the same location ad infinitum, (unlikely), then relocating equipment would be a possible solution, at least specific to a feedback issue.

However, as I said before, the TS states, "feedback isn't a problem", and hence this arouses this my curiosity, as to why there seems to be such a chasm of disconnect, between ,the question asked, and the answer you supplied.

Whether or not feedback 'will become a problem", is sort of a 'we'll cross that bridge when we come to it', non issue ATM.


This: "Also, I am using a feedback buster so that isn't the big issue here."

Feedback buster technology might be exactly the reason he can't get loud enough because it may be actively muting his signal by design due to the presence of soundboard resonance. I suspect feedback (and measures to control it) may be exactly the problem. Process of elimination.

My next step would be to remove the feedback buster from the circuit and test it with the band. If we now have enough gain but soundboard resonance is a problem we need to use a notch filter on the guitar or lower the stage volume or both.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Sep 17, 2015,
#6
Removing the feedback buster makes feedback the biggest issue. I can't turn up loud enough without a huge amount of feedback, with the buster in I can get a lot louder but still not loud enough to be heard fully.

Playing unplugged, the feedback buster certainly changes the guitar's sound, removes a bit of bass and a bit of volume. Plugged in the guitar sounds perfect, no drop in bass at all just not enough volume. I can't remove the feedback buster as I'd then need to turn down and it makes the guitar far too unstable.

So far the mxr pedal seems like a good option, so thanks for that I was originally just wondering if either a D/I or a different type of cable would be the answer.
#7
Quote by derek8520
Removing the feedback buster makes feedback the biggest issue. I can't turn up loud enough without a huge amount of feedback, with the buster in I can get a lot louder but still not loud enough to be heard fully.

Playing unplugged, the feedback buster certainly changes the guitar's sound, removes a bit of bass and a bit of volume. Plugged in the guitar sounds perfect, no drop in bass at all just not enough volume. I can't remove the feedback buster as I'd then need to turn down and it makes the guitar far too unstable.

So far the mxr pedal seems like a good option, so thanks for that I was originally just wondering if either a D/I or a different type of cable would be the answer.


Maybe a different pickup is in order. The Lyric mic is very natural sounding but probably not the best for a loud soundstage. The Baggs M1a might be a better choice for playing with a full band.
http://www.lrbaggs.com/pickups/m1-acoustic-guitar-pickup

This DI is also great for live work. It adds up to 24db of gain and a great EQ toolbag for tone shaping.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ParaDI?adpos=1o1&creative=54989263441&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CP2v-amP_8cCFUSBfgodQwcCUA
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Sep 17, 2015,
#8
Quote by Cajundaddy
Maybe a different pickup is in order. The Lyric mic is very natural sounding but probably not the best for a loud soundstage. The Baggs M1a might be a better choice for playing with a full band....[ ]....
Let's just pretend cost is a factor. (Oh, I know I'm being silly, since money is never an object, now is it)?

Since cost isn't a factor, our TS should just trial & error his way through as many pickups and preamp combos, as his health and patience will allow.

OTOH, K & K, make a variety of preamps: http://kksound.com/preamps.php some of which even clip to your belt. It seems they've heard this complaint before, and are aware that the problem is low mic , (or pickup) output, will cause problems with long line runs, as there is a voltage drop on the way to the board. So, neither mics or piezos are optimum without amplification very (electrically) close to their location.

As "hindsight is always 20/20", and since "money is no object", I would have suggested buying some kind of piezo equipped rotgut Ibanez A/E, many of which may sound like crap unplugged, but shine when you plug them in.

Many of their guitars even have, notch filters, (!!), built into their preamps. Plus, many are all laminate, which is a good thing in and of itself, as a way of minimizing feedback.

Long cable runs and low output pickups ingest noise into the PA, along with the signal. So, if you amplify at the board, that noise gets boosted, right along with the signal. (And yes, I know that theory sometimes differs from practice, but humor me anyway).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the cable run and low pickup output are the primary issues.

Which is not to say feedback wouldn't become an issue, once the system has been optimized for gain.

But, I also say we cross that notch filter bridge when we get to it.

Since most to all factory A/E guitars are equipped with onboard amplification, and many people still use a DI box at the board, it is possible that both type preamps may be necessary to optimize the system. (as it is, we would be throwing away some of the gain at the DI, by virtue of the long cable runs). (IMHO, of course).
Last edited by Captaincranky at Sep 17, 2015,