#1
Hello.

I have some questions & i divide them in 1, 2 & 3 to maybe make it easier to understand what i mean & also to answer because it might already be confusing as it is:

1.
As i am learning to play and looks at the ''House Of Blues - Blues Guitar Course CD1'' About 1 hour in, he is showing how to play 6 Bar Chords, i understand it as 1 bar chord contains for example F major & F Minor and the next one as G major & G minor and so on but since there are 7 tones, F, G, A, B, C, D , E why does he not say 7 Bar Chords?


2.
He is also showing F major then F Sharp major with other tones too. I understand and knowdest that the, as an example, F chord for both major & minor fits when i play the 1st box that has Fas groundtone (F on the 1st & 6th string 1st fret) but when the Chord is ''Sharp'' is it also suppose to work in the 1st box of Pentatonic Scale tough it is brighter?

3.
The F Sharp tone matches if i mix play the 1st box on second fret instead of 1st fret as it is, as good as when i play the normal F chord with the 1st box as it accualy is. That combined with that sometimes, but not so often, when i play a song that sounds matches the most with key ofF for example, it sounds less false if i start the 1st box at 2nd fret instead of 1st but then it can not be F, or can it? I have not figured out the difference between how you play major & minor in the Pentatonic Scale except that i understand that the blue notes (middle tones) only can be used in Major songs, correct?

I also wonder what a''Flat'' chord is? B Flat for example.

Id like to get some clarity on this so i appreciate some help.
#3
As the above poster mentioned, you're questions do seem a bit unclear, so forgive me if I don't answer the questions properly. If I posted anything that confuses you, feel free to ask me to clear anything up for you. If I don't get around to you, someone else will gladly help!

Question 1

For you standard barre chord shape, it looks like this*:

Major
|--1--|
|--1--|
|--2--|
|--3--|
|--3--|
|--1--|

Minor
|--1--|
|--1--|
|--1--|
|--3--|
|--3--|
|--1--|

*Both shapes can be moved up and down the next. At the first fret, it'll be F; the second fret is F#, the third fret is G, and so on.

From what I gather from you're question, the teacher is showing you a "6" chord. A "6" chord an be major or minor (so, for example, Fmaj6 or Fmin6). What that means is that you'll take your regular major/minor chord an add on a diatonic sixth interval from it.

What is a diatonic 6th interval, you ask? It is the 6th interval that is diatonic (in the same key w/o chromatically altering them). Typically, in a "6" chord, you'll always add the major 6th interval, which is a D natural note. So, on the fretboard, it would look like this:

Major 6
|--1--|
|--3--|
|--2--|
|--3--|
|--3--|
|--1--|

Minor
|--1--|
|--3--|
|--1--|
|--3--|
|--3--|
|--1--|

Question 2

Well, if you play the pentatonic shape at the first fret, it will work over some sort of F chord at the first fret (whether major or minor). And as you said, in the pentatonic shape at the first fret, the root note of F will be located on the two E strings (1st and 6th) at the first fret, and the D string (4th string) at the 3rd fret.

When you are playing an F# major chord or an F# minor chord at the second fret, the pentatonic shape played at the first fret won't sound so good over the chords because that is the F pentatonic scale. If you're root note of the chord is the F# on the second fret, then you should use the pentatonic position at the 2nd fret for the time being.

Question 2

Just remember, if you're root chord is based on fret "X" (where X is your fret of choice), you should use the pentatonic box starting on the same fret to get your feet wet in soloing. So, we have have our F major chord at the first fret, you should use the the pentatonic box at the first fret.

With the pentatonic box, you can use it to play over a major or minor key. If you are in the key of F major or F minor, you can still use the F pentatonic box over both keys, and it'll be fine. You can also use the blue note in either key, and it's not only strictly for use in a major key.

Bonus Question

A flat note is basically a note in between two natural notes. As you mentioned, there are 7 natural notes: A B C D E F G.

If you played those notes only on the A string (5th string), you would have this:

|--0--2--3--5--7--8--10--12--|
|--A--B--C--D--E--F--G--A--|

Those are the 7 natural notes of music. There are also 5 "accidental" notes, and they are: A#, C#, D#, F#, G# (as written as sharps), or (in flats) Bb, Db, Eb, Gb, Ab. So, if we go back to the fretboard on the A string, we would have:

|--1--|
|-A#-| or |-Bb-|

You may asked "Well, why does the first fret of A string go by two different names? This is what we call an "Enharmonic note." They are notes that have the same pitch, but go by a different name by their context.

This comes into play when we're spelling out notes in a given key. For example, in the key of F major, we'd have the notes of: F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E. The reason we call the note "Bb" is because there is already an note with the name of "A" in the scale. You wouldn't say there is an "A" an "A#" in the F major key.

So, to answer your question, flat notes (as well as there sharp counterparts) make up the other 5 notes of the 12 notes seen in music.

End-Note: I hope this cleared up your questions. If you are still having problems, or only confused you more, please feel free to ask me or anyone else on this forum to break it down a bit more.

Everyone here in the Musician Talk forum is more than welcome to help you out on your journey. Best of luck with your playing!
Skip the username, call me Billy
#4
Quote by jonathan.uno.jo
Hello.

I have some questions & i divide them in 1, 2 & 3 to maybe make it easier to understand what i mean & also to answer because it might already be confusing as it is:

1.
As i am learning to play and looks at the ''House Of Blues - Blues Guitar Course CD1'' About 1 hour in, he is showing how to play 6 Bar Chords, i understand it as 1 bar chord contains for example F major & F Minor and the next one as G major & G minor and so on but since there are 7 tones, F, G, A, B, C, D , E why does he not say 7 Bar Chords?
You need to explain what you (or he) mean by "6 bar chords"
6-string barres?
six types of barre?
barred 6th chords? (unlikely IMO)

And while there are 7 natural notes, there are 12 major chords and 12 minors, because of the sharps and flats.
Quote by jonathan.uno.jo

2.
He is also showing F major then F Sharp major with other tones too. I understand and knowdest that the, as an example, F chord for both major & minor fits when i play the 1st box that has Fas groundtone (F on the 1st & 6th string 1st fret) but when the Chord is ''Sharp'' is it also suppose to work in the 1st box of Pentatonic Scale tough it is brighter?
F# is not "brighter", it's the same chord type in a different key.
But - if I understand you right - then whatever scale you fit on the F chord will need to be raised a fret to fit the F#.
Quote by jonathan.uno.jo

3.
The F Sharp tone matches if i mix play the 1st box on second fret instead of 1st fret as it is, as good as when i play the normal F chord with the 1st box as it accualy is. That combined with that sometimes, but not so often, when i play a song that sounds matches the most with key ofF for example, it sounds less false if i start the 1st box at 2nd fret instead of 1st but then it can not be F, or can it?
Sorry, don't follow this at all.
Quote by jonathan.uno.jo

I have not figured out the difference between how you play major & minor in the Pentatonic Scale except that i understand that the blue notes (middle tones) only can be used in Major songs, correct?
Sounds to me like you're talking about combining the parallel major and minor pentatonic.
E.g., F major pent and F minor pent. This would be common in a blues in the F major key - and it might explain why he's showing you the barre shapes for both F and Fm, so you can see how the scales fit the chord tones. (But I'm guessing )
Quote by jonathan.uno.jo

I also wonder what a''Flat'' chord is? B Flat for example.
It's the opposite of sharp. Just like an F# chord is a fret higher than an F chord, a Bb chord is a fret lower than a B chord.
The Bb chord will be common in the key of F major. The main chords in that key are F, Bb and C.
(But it would be quite unusual to play a blues on guitar in the key of F, at least for a beginner. The keys orf E or A would be more common, easier to handle.)
#5
Forget about everything you know about theory, because that sounds confusing as hell.

First learn the note names. Don't think in boxes or anything right now. You need to understand why certain "boxes" work. So start with note names.

There are 12 notes altogether (and they repeat in different octaves). Diatonic scales like major and minor use seven of them.

Let's talk about the major scale first. A major scale is built from whole and half steps. A half step up/down = 1 fret up/down. A whole step up/down = 2 frets up/down.

C major has notes C D E F G A B in it. There's a whole step between all notes, except for E-F and B-C. That's how we make it sound like a major scale - we need to have a half step between the 3rd and 4th, and 7th and 8th (=1st) notes of the scale. Note names are based on the C major scale, so that's why there's a half step between E-F and B-C.

So, there's a whole step between F and G. What's in between them? It's the note that is a half step higher than F and a half step lower than G. We call it either F sharp or G flat. Sharp means a half step higher than the natural note, and flat means a half step lower than the natural note. So, F sharp is a half step higher than F and G flat is a half step lower than G. Whether we should call it F# or Gb depends on the context.


You were also talking about what scales to use when. Stop thinking in boxes and shapes for a while. If you are playing in the key of F major, you use the F major scale. If you are playing in the key of F minor, you use the F minor scale. Well, that's how it basically works. Nobody says you couldn't use other notes too (for example blues mixes minor and major).

If there's an F# major chord, F major is not going to work over it well. It will sound dissonant.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#6
Yeah F# is totally different from F. Everything has to be moved up one fret. Nothing from F will work in F#.
#7
I think why what i wrote was confusioning is because it's a bit of hard to explain in english and it may have came through wrong what i really ment. With reading some briefly i understand what you write i'll have closer look on it. Thanks.
#8
Quote by Declan87
Yeah F# is totally different from F. Everything has to be moved up one fret. Nothing from F 145will work in F#.


Alright. So when i play some songs that sounds close the most to the key of F compare to other whole tones but fits better/completely if i play Key of F starting one fret higher it means that the complete song goes in F sharp (F#)?

That should also mean then that there is not only key of F but also key of F sharp (F#) that exists and the only difference is that you start playing the exact same box but one fret higher? Is it the same with all 7 tones? Because there is no fret between B and C so if i move one fret up from B it is C not B sharp (B#). So how does that work?

But if F Sharp (F#) starts one fret above F, how can G flat start one fret below G? Since that is the same fret?
#9
^ Yes. F# major is the same shape as F major, just everything moved one fret up.

F# and Gb are the same pitch. Whether we should call the second fret of the E string an F# or a Gb has to do with context.

All diatonic scales have seven different letters in them (A B C D E F G). You can't have two F's in your scale (if we are talking about diatonic scales). This is why for example D major is D E F# G A B C# D, not D E Gb G A B Db D. And this is also why Db major is Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C, not Db D# F F# G# A# C. You need to use all the seven letters in your scale (again, this only applies to diatonic scales) - you can't have two different F's in your scale (for example F natural and F sharp).
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#10
Quote by jonathan.uno.jo
Alright. So when i play some songs that sounds close the most to the key of F compare to other whole tones but fits better/completely if i play Key of F starting one fret higher it means that the complete song goes in F sharp (F#)?

That should also mean then that there is not only key of F but also key of F sharp (F#) that exists and the only difference is that you start playing the exact same box but one fret higher?

You've got most of it right.

F# is one fret higher than F but this is a huge difference. Every note will have changed.


Is it the same with all 7 tones? Because there is no fret between B and C so if i move one fret up from B it is C not B sharp (B#). So how does that work?


Sometimes it's called C and sometimes it's called B#.

You'll never play in the key of B# because it has a crazy amount of accidentals(14?)

But if you play a G# major chord it will have a B# note in it.

The third of G# minor is B and the third of G# major is B#

If you're playing an A minor chord, the third of that is C. It sounds the same but has a different name because the third of A has to be some kind of C. The third of A major is C#, one fret higher than C.

But if F Sharp (F#) starts one fret above F, how can G flat start one fret below G? Since that is the same fret?


F# and Gb are the same pitch/same place on the fretboard. Same idea as B#/C. Sometimes you'll call it one thing, sometimes another.

The fifth of B is F#. The third of D is F#
The third of Eb minor is Gb.

Same fret, different names.