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#1
So, my roommate since January is a decent enough guy to get along with. We're both into sports and somewhat similar music, I get along with him fine personality-wise. He doesn't work full time and has to pay child support, so his mom pays his part of rent every month, so that's not an issue either.

The thing is, the guy has some mental problems. He's not violent or anything, he's just...uh...invalid. I'm not one to judge anyone for problems they can't help but it seems to me he's fine with spending half his day nodding off on all the pills he's prescribed, which is approximately 6 after his most recent inpatient treatment (it was 4). I think depression is his problem, and again, I'm not one too judge or look down on someone for something like that, he's my friend and I wanted to help him, but I just can't take it anymore.

Do you guys know what skin looks like after a couple months of not bathing? Cause I do and its not pretty. The skin gradually turns a distinctly homeless hue. But he's not homeless, our shower works fine. I snapped at him this morning because his filth is becoming a problem, and if he doesn't shower today while I'm at work I'm gonna have to ask a grown man to stay off my furniture, he's that dirty.

I do my best to keep a clean house and at first he was fine, or so I thought. But what was really going on was he was hoarding old food, smelly clothes, a ****ing bird's nest (no joke), amongst other things in his room. Once his room got too bad he started on the living room and that's when I started to notice his slobbiness. I have to constantly hound him and if I'm not standing there watching him he won't do a damn thing. He'll straight up lie to me if I'm not home.

I'd like to think I'm a good friend and I don't want the guy to kill himself, as he threatens often, but I just can't take it anymore. He's making me as miserable as he claims to be and I don't know what to do but kick him out. I'm not a fan of bitching at a grown man to take a frickin' bath, nor of having to clean another man's room, so at this rate I'm gonna need a therapist myself soon.


So, Pit, what the hell am I to do? Am I right to kick him out? I feel for the guy, I really do. I'd like to help him but I'm obviously not able too, he's dragging me down with him. Would I be an asshole to kick him out?

I know his family but they're no help, besides paying his rent, they have issues of their own and I suspect are a large part of his problem.

I don't wanna be an asshole, Pit, what do I do?
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#2
Tell him you will kick him out if he carries on being a mug
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#3
yep, id kick him out. why would i accept that kind of problem in my own domain? His well being is not your responsibility, and if it's affecting your personal life, kick him out.
Quote by yellowfrizbee
What does a girl have to do to get it in the butt thats all I ever wanted from you. Why, Ace? Why? I clean my asshole every night hoping and wishing and it never happens.
Bitches be Crazy.

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#5
Eww threaten to kick that dirtball out if he doesn't get his shit together, seriously how difficult is it to take a ****en shower and not be a slob? No reason you need to suffer because of it.
#7
lol it's more complicated than telling him to wash. he's an addict and addicts dont behave according to anyone else's rules but their own. he's not going to suddenly become a clean person that bathes regularly and doesn't leave a mess everywhere. the choice is either kick him out or live with a hobo-tier individual. the choice is obvious.
Quote by yellowfrizbee
What does a girl have to do to get it in the butt thats all I ever wanted from you. Why, Ace? Why? I clean my asshole every night hoping and wishing and it never happens.
Bitches be Crazy.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
#8
Ask him to move out, or find a new place for yourself.
If you can't handle it, it's not your fault and you wouldn't be in the wrong for kicking stinky out.
You offered him advice on hygiene and he didn't take it, nuff said, the guy is a dirty wanker.
#9
I'm not sure what he's on, all of 'em I'd guess. They really **** him up though, and he brags about it, he shows 'em off before he takes them and is nodding off within a half hour. He seems oblivious that everyone around him knows he's always ****ed up.

I threatened to kick him out this morning if he doesn't clean up, but I know him and am not optimistic. I think kicking him out is inevitable and I'm not the type that handles that well, I hate ruining someone's time but I can't take it anymore. He'll say he's gonna clean up, but he won't do anything but talk about how depressed he is and about how he should just kill himself. Doing something about it requires effort.
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#11
Quote by Weaponized
If he moves out prepare to have to clean his room

On the up side, it's probably not as bad as Blode's place was. Yet.
#12
Since his mom pays part of the rent you should probably bring the whole "always depressed, threatens suicide, doesn't bathe, makes everything disgusting" thing up to her and tell her you're probably going to kick him out.
Idk, if he really is depressed and suicidal just be sure to handle it carefully.
#13
Kick him out.
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#14
Quote by Weaponized
If he moves out prepare to have to clean his room

I already had to clean his room when he went for inpatient care. The thing that first set me off this morning was seeing his room a wreck again, after only 5 days. It'd be a relief to clean his room after he moves out. I'm sure its gonna need recarpeted though.
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#15
Quote by institutions
Since his mom pays part of the rent you should probably bring the whole "always depressed, threatens suicide, doesn't bathe, makes everything disgusting" thing up to her and tell her you're probably going to kick him out.
Idk, if he really is depressed and suicidal just be sure to handle it carefully.

His mom is a nice enough lady but she has very similar issues as him, she's an alchoholic and prone to belligerence.

And yeah, I don't know if he is suicidal or using it as a defence. Its a very touchy thing to deal with.
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#16
Tbh I think (and you shouldn't take my opinion to hold much weight) you need to have a hard, serious conversation and explain the difficulty of the position and situation, and try and get his explanation and perspective. I don't think you should offer any ultimatum until you really know what's going on. You should explain the cleanliness problem and if he is dismissive (in an arrogant way, not a "I can't handle even talking about this" way), that's when you need to consult other (more official) people. You're gounna have to be assertive and point out that it's gone to a serious level without giving him an ultimatum that pushes him further into his problems.

It may not be depression, though. Many conditions can manifest like that.

but at the end of the day speaking as someone who is a total ****ing nutbag supporting him will probably kill you inside and damage your friendship. unless you're a hard idealist with no regard for self interest
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Last edited by Banjocal at Sep 18, 2015,
#17
^I agree. if he'sgot depression, kiking him out could kill him. If there are other disorders, there could be anything that could happen. If the mom is paying the rent, maybe he just kicks back and chill, and if she knows the situation, she'll stop paying unless he cleans and stuff. Maybe not.

The best way for it to resolve, regardless of what the end game is, will be through communication with him.
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#18
Call the cops on him for having drugs in your house if you don't want to kick him out yourself. Be like, omg, a random police inspection oh noooo. LOL Seriously, the more time hes in your house, the worse it will be.
#19
Quote by Banjocal at #33601177
Tbh I think (and you shouldn't take my opinion to hold much weight) you need to have a hard, serious conversation and explain the difficulty of the position and situation, and try and get his explanation and perspective. I don't think you should offer any ultimatum until you really know what's going on. You should explain the cleanliness problem and if he is dismissive (in an arrogant way, not a "I can't handle even talking about this" way), that's when you need to consult other (more official) people. You're gounna have to be assertive and point out that it's gone to a serious level without giving him an ultimatum that pushes him further into his problems.

It may not be depression, though. Many conditions can manifest like that.

but at the end of the day speaking as someone who is a total ****ing nutbag supporting him will probably kill you inside and damage your friendship. unless you're a hard idealist with no regard for self interest

Yeah, this.


It's going to be really difficult. But have the kind of talk that's helpful. Emphasize your willingness to take action. People don't just stop showering for two months because they're selfish or inconsiderate, all of those are consequences of something worse.

At the same time, don't enable him. Make sure he knows that his (in)actions have an effect on you. Don't put up with him not taking several showers. Don't use a judgmental tone, though.


DEFINITELY don't call his parents. Really, do not involve them unless it's a last resort.
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Sep 18, 2015,
#20
**** That.

And **** the pathetic "advice" given above.

Allow me to elaborate. My House, My Rules. Deal with it or GTFO!

As long as your rules aren't unreasonable, that's the end of it.

It really is just that simple.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#21
I'd be like hey buddy, I wish you the best but you belong in an institution, not my house.
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#22
Give him a week. Say "Listen, I care about you and I know you're going through a lot. However, I don't think I am the person to help you through this, and I need to live my own life, which you are not helping me with right now. If things don't get better in a week, I need you to find another place to stay by the end of the month, because this is unhealthy for BOTH of us."
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#23
Quote by Arby911
**** That.

And **** the pathetic "advice" given above.

Allow me to elaborate. My House, My Rules. Deal with it or GTFO!

As long as your rules aren't unreasonable, that's the end of it.

It really is just that simple.

Man it's like watching an antique clock try and understand the internet.
#24
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Man it's like watching an antique clock try and understand the internet.
I mean in defense of the ballpark he's in and putting aside his simplistic Lego bricks and jellybabies world view, if you got property, you're gounna want to keep that shit nice, and you gotta be aware of the problems there. Vintage has a good approach. To not even try, though, is just irresponsible.

Of course the wider question is: if he really is as bad as you (OP) say, would he top himself if he was kicked out, and more to the point would you care?
Quote by EndTheRapture51
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#25
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Man it's like watching an antique clock try and understand the internet.


You'll get there.

I've been through it, you're just making it up as you go.

I know, I know, it sounds harsh but if you won't enforce your own reasonable standards in your own home, who will?

I'd be nice about it, but it wouldn't be open for debate.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#27
getting angry with him will just make things worse, keep things non hostile else he'll go on the defensive and just shut you out/ignore you
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#28
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Man it's like watching an antique clock try and understand the internet.

I know it might seem that way, but to be fair, getting to a point where you own and maintain a lot of your own stuff makes you more protective, and rightfully so. Old people have been taken advantage of far more often then us young folks - there is a reason they are quicker to make the jump.

I have lived with lots of people who have taken serious advantage of me. Hell I even housed a couple I was very close friends with for free for three months in my damn living room (which is supposed to be a public event space, but we couldn't have events bc the house was so crazy with them there.) They had just gotten off the Appalachian Trail and were having serious family problems and they told us they were broke so I told them to stay with me for a month while they looked for an apartment and got jobs, and while I wasn't in school for the month for winter break.

Next thing I know, it's three months later, they bought a van with $9k of saved money that I guess they didn't account for when they told us they were broke, they didn't move into the van after they bought it, their plan was to still shower and use the ******* in our house (the town had to notify us of our increases in water usage bc they thought a pipe busted), the dude still didn't have a job and was trying to resolve the issue by asking us if we'd buy pot from him regularly... and then when we kicked them out, they stopped talking to us and everyone else in town and dipped out and sent me lots of angry facebook messages.


Sometimes, you have to protect yourself. I was neglecting so much because I had become depressed about my own living situation and that helps nobody. You can't care for someone unless you take care of yourself, or you end up like those anxious emotionally abusive overbearing mothers who have nothing but the children they are not satisfied with, because they aren't satisfied with themselves. I think what TS is expressing in his post is that while he cares a lot for his friends, he himself is dropping into his own depression because of this, and he is realizing he can't trust his friend even if he wants to.
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#29
Quote by Banjocal at #33601393
I mean in defense of the ballpark he's in and putting aside his simplistic Lego bricks and jellybabies world view, if you got property, you're gounna want to keep that shit nice, and you gotta be aware of the problems there. Vintage has a good approach. To not even try, though, is just irresponsible.

Of course the wider question is: if he really is as bad as you (OP) say, would he top himself if he was kicked out, and more to the point would you care?

I don't mind that, and like I said I don't think someone in that position should put up with it because the other person has problems (no matter how serious they are), and here's the But: it's both their properties. They both live there. One of them is doing a really, really shitty job, but kicking them out for failing to abide by rules you haven't even approached with decency (when he brings it up he snaps at him? Like Bladez said, that'll result in him getting ignored, and will eventually force him into a position where he has to ask him to leave, despite his problems).


The whole "My way or the highway" crap works in stories. In real life, first-world countries don't base their daily mores over threatening ultimatums. That shit might've worked in the 80s, nowadays we acknowledge that people are flawed, because god forbid someone doesn't want to live with you and your rules? You gotta try and work together.
#30
Quote by Arby911
You'll get there.

I've been through it, you're just making it up as you go.

I know, I know, it sounds harsh but if you won't enforce your own reasonable standards in your own home, who will?

I'd be nice about it, but it wouldn't be open for debate.

But it isn't just his house. It's their place. The guy contributes to the rent, even if it isn't his money.
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#31
I mean the thing is, despite ultimatums often being beguilingly whimsical plot devices, they really do happen, and moreover, I specifically said:

but at the end of the day speaking as someone who is a total ****ing nutbag supporting him will probably kill you inside and damage your friendship. unless you're a hard idealist with no regard for self interest

Now I don't have yearly experience compared to folks like Arby and Mistress but I tell ya now just living with one damaged person is damn hard even in their most stable of states.

And while I am of the belief that not trying and doing the 'my way or the highway' in a situation like this is basically a '**** you got mine' that would make Ian Duncan Smith's benefit cuts look charitable, there isn't much of a good end game. Ya gotta communicate but you've got to maintain those gaps between your 'hard ideal' and your 'practical ideal' and in OP's case that question is 'how much do you care?'. I hate to spew some basic Slave Morality rhetoric but you can't let the suffering of others drag you down to the point where you are unable to help them and moreover yourself from achieving what you need to progress. That isn't to say one should go '**** it' and kick them out, knowing they'll probably kick it bc that's the behaviour of an anustoast, but hey
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who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
Last edited by Banjocal at Sep 18, 2015,
#32
I'm assuming you're either the owner or it's just your name on the lease? If so, kick him out. Give him his 30 days notice ASAP. If he can pay rent at your place, he can pay rent somewhere else.
#33
I've done my best with not being hostile, this morning was the first time I've really flipped my shit, I just couldn't help it and it came out. I've been empathetic yet firm and we've talked over what's going on, he makes a lot of promises but never follows through, he just tells me what he thinks I wanna hear but doesn't change anything. I feel for the guy, I really do. Enough to give him another week to make any sorta progress at all. Maybe me blowing up will it least move him in the right direction.

I'm not too optimistic, but thanks guys for making me feel like I'm not an asshole here. I hope I figure out a way to do it without pushing him deeper in the whole he's in. Maybe push him towards more inpatient care, though more drugs seems to be their solution. Its over my head though.
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#34
He's paying his bills...that is ultimately the big issue. Check.
He's a disgusting pig who never bathes/showers.....Tell him that is unacceptable. Explain that he needs to shower if for no other reason than to be considerate to you as his roommate. Same with not leaving slobby messes. If he refuses kick him out. If he complies and then stops later....kick him out (or give him one last chance).

Suicide threats are pretty pathetic. If he throws himself off a building because you kicked him out, that is on HIM, not you. Ignore the user above about bringing in the cops....no need to completely ruin a guy's life because he's suffering from depression, or whatever is wrong with him.
Last edited by TobusRex at Sep 18, 2015,
#35
Quote by lucky1978 at #33601456
I've done my best with not being hostile, this morning was the first time I've really flipped my shit, I just couldn't help it and it came out. I've been empathetic yet firm and we've talked over what's going on, he makes a lot of promises but never follows through, he just tells me what he thinks I wanna hear but doesn't change anything. I feel for the guy, I really do. Enough to give him another week to make any sorta progress at all. Maybe me blowing up will it least move him in the right direction.

I'm not too optimistic, but thanks guys for making me feel like I'm not an asshole here. I hope I figure out a way to do it without pushing him deeper in the whole he's in. Maybe push him towards more inpatient care, though more drugs seems to be their solution. Its over my head though.

Don't get me wrong, I totally sympathize with you on this and I think you're absolutely justified in wanting him out, and I believe you're doing the right thing by giving him that week. I was just objecting to Arby's whole "Your house, your rules" thing. Like if one human tried to put their cynicism aside to help someone else, they're a weakling who's getting trembled on.


Anyway, do you ever feel like a plastic bag, drifting through the wind, wanting to start again?


EDIT: I thought you said we made you feel like an asshole lol. My baaaaad.
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Sep 18, 2015,
#37
Quote by lucky1978
I've done my best with not being hostile, this morning was the first time I've really flipped my shit, I just couldn't help it and it came out. I've been empathetic yet firm and we've talked over what's going on, he makes a lot of promises but never follows through, he just tells me what he thinks I wanna hear but doesn't change anything. I feel for the guy, I really do. Enough to give him another week to make any sorta progress at all. Maybe me blowing up will it least move him in the right direction.

I'm not too optimistic, but thanks guys for making me feel like I'm not an asshole here. I hope I figure out a way to do it without pushing him deeper in the whole he's in. Maybe push him towards more inpatient care, though more drugs seems to be their solution. Its over my head though.

You're definitely not being an ass, actually you sound incredibly thoughtful and considerate. It's just tough because there is no "ideal" solution. Ideally, he would take your cues and just tidy up more and it's all good. But he is depressed, seriously so, and it is much more complicated than that.

I kicked out my depressed friends, or I moved out of their places. There are three that don't talk to me anymore. The other five told me, eventually, that it was exactly what they needed as a wake-up call, and we are better friends now. It sounds like his mother is supportive of him - he has time/funds to get better, and you may even be perpetuating his problems by letting him stay and not addressing them. I am sure his mother or inpatient care or even a change of scenery could probably help him more than you trying to deal with this and slipping into a sorry state yourself.
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#38
Quote by BladeSlinger
But it isn't just his house. It's their place. The guy contributes to the rent, even if it isn't his money.


It sounds to me like according to the context he's a sublet, he either follows the rules or he leaves.

If they are both on the rental agreement, that's a different story of course.

Sorry folks, but in real life sometimes it is "my way or the highway".

I'm not suggesting it's one-strike-and-you're-out, but that doesn't seem to be the case presented. If the guy's not doing what he's been asked, and going so far as to openly lie about it, clearly this is an ongoing problem.

Quote by ali.guitarkid7
The whole "My way or the highway" crap works in stories. In real life, first-world countries don't base their daily mores over threatening ultimatums. That shit might've worked in the 80s, nowadays we acknowledge that people are flawed, because god forbid someone doesn't want to live with you and your rules? You gotta try and work together.


Actually that's exactly what they do, it's called "law". If you do (or don't do) X, Y WILL occur. End of story.

As noted, "My way or the highway" shouldn't be your first go-to, but in this case it seems appropriate.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Sep 18, 2015,
#40
Quote by Arby911 at #33601479
Actually that's exactly what they do, it's called "law". If you do (or don't do) X, Y WILL occur. End of story.

As noted, "My way or the highway" shouldn't be your first go-to, but in this case it seems appropriate.

I purposely put 'mores' instead of 'laws' there because this isn't a legal issue unless he tries to get him to leave. No one comes on the Pit for legal advice. It's something personal, between humans, without the indifferent third party that'll base decisions on prewritten rules.


Think the world is tough? Fine. Don't mean you gotta be tough back.
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