#1
hey there!
i want to buy a new head or combo for around 500€. It should be playable at home so i can't buy a 100w head or anything like that. I want to use it for smaller gigs and in the rehersal room.
I currently only have a micro terror with some kind of 1x8 speaker cab from blackstar.
I mainly play Hardcore/Metal but i'm also into nice ambient, glassy clean sounds. So the clean channel is as important as the gain channel. Do you think at this price range something like that exists?
i've looked into the tubemeister 18 by hughes and kettner but i think the lead channel isn't good for metal. what about the bugera stuff? they sell great combos but only with 60w+
that's a bit too much for bedroom use isn't it?
hope someone can help me
#2
I've never owned a tubemeister, but I've tried both the 18 and 36w models, and quite liked their gain channels for metal.

As for wattage, take a look at this chart. In a way, you're right about 60w being too much, although, depending on the amp, it could be completely usable,

I'm currently using a Marshall JCM2000 401 as my sort of "everything" (bedroom/jamming/gigging) amp. It's a 40w 1x12 combo, and yeah, it gets bloody loud, but it can also get quiet, and still produce very usable and nice tones.

In my opinion, anything is a step up from a tiny terror as far as metal goes. It seems to get very, very muddy, although that could be biased as I've only played a tiny terror through the little orange cab they recommend for it
#3
Quote by rafi.bit
hey there!
i want to buy a new head or combo for around 500€. It should be playable at home so i can't buy a 100w head or anything like that. I want to use it for smaller gigs and in the rehersal room.
I currently only have a micro terror with some kind of 1x8 speaker cab from blackstar.
I mainly play Hardcore/Metal but i'm also into nice ambient, glassy clean sounds. So the clean channel is as important as the gain channel. Do you think at this price range something like that exists?
i've looked into the tubemeister 18 by hughes and kettner but i think the lead channel isn't good for metal. what about the bugera stuff? they sell great combos but only with 60w+
that's a bit too much for bedroom use isn't it?
hope someone can help me


I have an H&K Statesman Dual El84. The clean channel is bright and glassy, and I would have thought that the gain channel would have been more than enough distortion and grind for metal. - The promo hints that the gain channel has a Marshall type sound. If the Tubemeister 18 is similar, it could be a very good choice.
#4
how quietly do you have to play at home?

100 watts tube are too loud cranked up at home. Thing is, so are 18 watts. So are 5 watts. You normally have to get a fair bit below one watt to have a fighting chance of being able to crank it at home volume, at least what most people mean by "home volume".

Most metal tones are preamp distortion. You don't need masses of volume for that (granted, they still normally sound better turned up a bit, but you can still normally get the sound you want at fairly low volumes, say loud TV/action film on a home cinema type of volume levels, especially if you use an od pedal as a boost to get more saturation). Also in my experience, higher wattage amps are normally more aimed at metal tones and sound better for it than most lower wattage amps, and also normally (and somewhat counterintuitively) sound better when turned way down to home levels than lower wattage amps too.

Basically what I'm saying is, don't discount a 100 watt or 50 watt amp which may well be perfect for what you want if you're willing to turn it way down, only to buy an 18 watt amp by default and find it's still way too loud, plus doesn't do the tones you want as well.

That's not to say it'll definitely get quiet enough for you, which is why I asked how quietly you have to play. But if the 100 watter doesn't get quiet enough, it's a pretty reasonable bet that the 18 watter won't either.

what do you mean by metal? could you list some bands? also, how badly do you need those cleans? jet city is the obvious choice in europe, but its high gain models tend not to really have clean channels, they're more crunch channels really (they're pretty much the od channel with one less gain stage).
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#5
^ I know 2 people who own those statesman (one being my roomate) and they WILL NOT do metal. It'll achieve a modest rock drive at best. Great cleans tho! I'm not trying to say its a bad amp, cus its not, but if you wanna play metal I don't think it'll cut it.

I'd shoot for something around 40-50 watts. Any louder and it could be too much for at home, and any quieter and you may end up sacrificing your clean headroom when put in a band situation with no means of micing your amp (like at practice). My Jet City and RV are both 50 watts and very usable at home. I had to pull 2 tubes out of my EVH to cut her back to 50 watts to make it more usable at home ( and that thing is still hella loud)

Like the guy said above, the one time I tried the 36 watt tube Meister my impression was that it would be a killer metal amp, but that's my opinion. If you don't like it, then you don't like it.

See if you could find a used 5150iii combo within your budget. I think it would be perfect for your needs, or maybe a Mesa combo?

Edit:

What Dave said. Don't get too hung up over the wattage. All the wattage determines is how much headroom you have before you encounter breakup. So say a 5watt amps clean channel will become naturally distorted much quicker the a 100 watt amp as you're cranking it up. That's why I was saying earlier that you may want around 40 watts if youre going to be jamming unmiced with a band and still want to maintain your clean tone.
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Last edited by red.guitar at Sep 20, 2015,
#7
Amp sticky, just do it.
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#8
By metal i mean stuff like periphery, northlane and metalcore like august burns red and so on.
I've found a used engl thunder 50 reverb combo for 650€, a bugera 333xl 212 for 450, mesa boogie calibar 50+ for 650 and a jcm 800 combo for 650. which one would you recommend?
there is also a jca22h with clean mod for 400€ but i think thats a bit too much for the 22 model isn't it?
#9
I haven't tried any of those specific amps aside from the Jet City. That's about the price I pain for a new JCA50H.... and if you want nice cleans, the JCA22H would be able to do it at bedroom levels, but Jet City's will breakup quick on the crunch (clean) channel.

I mean I can keep my JC pretty damn clean, but to do that I have my pre-gain of the crunch channel on like 0.5-1, and I just crank the master up to like 7 or 8 when I'm playing with my band.

Edit:

A quick google search shows those bands are using either Ax-Fx or similar units or Peavey 5150's/6505's. Maybe that would be a good starting point if that's the tone you want?
Guitars:
PRS Custom 24
Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute
85' MIJ Strat
97' Snakepit Les Paul
LP Traditional 1960 Zebra
MIJ Tele
MIA Strat

Amps:
Silver Jubilee 2525
Peavey Ultra 112
Jet City JCA50H
66' Bassman
Pink Paisley Princeton RV
74' Vibro Champ
Last edited by red.guitar at Sep 20, 2015,
#10
The problem with the 6505 and similar models is that their cleans are pretty useless.. and axe fxes are pricey af.
#11
Ive played the Engl Thunder II for about 30 minutes. It was a lovely amp. Really good clean and plenty of gain. Throw a tubescreamer out front and i bet the tone would be excellent for all your modern metal needs
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#12
The power rating of an amp has no bearing on how it sounds at low volume for either cleans or metal distortion. Case in point, my RM100 works better at really low volume than my RM20 - using the same preamp module. Why? Because it has a second Master Volume knob and a better output transformer.
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#13
The Tiny Terror combo is not bad at all, actually quite decent for metal, with active pickups it can get up to Metallica kind of distortion, needs a bit of overdrive to tighten it overall. It is more of an amp that works off a guitar's vibe, hence the one tone knob. Depending on what you plug into it, it sounds quite different. Brilliant no frills amp, actually.
I'd recommend it if you don't need fx loop but you'd probably need a 2 channel amp, so maybe look into Jet City or Laney VC series.
#15
i would be happy if i had a tiny terror but i have the shitty micro terror with 1 preamp tube and thats it. i really need something new. i'm tired of amp modelling softwares and my cheap amp.
i really dig the engl thunder reverb combo. i could get it maybe for 420€. thanks for your input guys
#16
Laney Ironheart (IRT60H), nice for metal tones, good cleans, variable wattage, won't break the bank.
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#17
IMO the Ironheart is a much better amp. I just don't dig the Tubemeister's tone. Too harsh and brittle. The DSL is a much better amp for metal if you want that Marshally type tone. The Ironheart, JCA, DSL, are amps I'd look at in your price range.
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#18
The Ironheart is a bit too pricey for me.. Do you guys think i will be happy with the engl thunder reverb combo? 450€ seems like a good deal to me.
#19
ENGL should be pretty good for you, its a damn good starting point thats for sure
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#20
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#22
Quote by rafi.bit
The problem with the 6505 and similar models is that their cleans are pretty useless.. and axe fxes are pricey af.


Nonsense.

We need to throw this little nugget of "wisdom" in the same trash heap as the "100w is too much for home" foolishness.

Even the most cursory perusal of youtube will show half a dozen demos of 6505 and 6505+ amps with more than adequate cleans for most (although admittedly not all) applications.

AxeFX are indeed pricey, you got that one right.
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#23
Quote by Arby911
Nonsense.

We need to throw this little nugget of "wisdom" in the same trash heap as the "100w is too much for home" foolishness.

Even the most cursory perusal of youtube will show half a dozen demos of 6505 and 6505+ amps with more than adequate cleans for most (although admittedly not all) applications.

AxeFX are indeed pricey, you got that one right.



I believe our very own OffWorld has a demo (maybe on his profile?) of his 6505 (or +, can't remember) producing a pretty decent clean tone.

I definitely would not go with one if I wanted to play blues, but the cleans are not THAT bad. I have a feeling that a lot of that this idea came about from people playing their EMG-loaded guitars with the volume and tone maxed through the clean channel with minimal effort to get a decent clean.
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#24
Quote by dementiacaptain
I believe our very own OffWorld has a demo (maybe on his profile?) of his 6505 (or +, can't remember) producing a pretty decent clean tone.

I definitely would not go with one if I wanted to play blues, but the cleans are not THAT bad. I have a feeling that a lot of that this idea came about from people playing their EMG-loaded guitars with the volume and tone maxed through the clean channel with minimal effort to get a decent clean.


He does indeed (6505), and it's still available on Youtube. I'd play SRV on a + (that is, assuming I could play like SRV...)
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#25
Quote by diabolical

I'd recommend it if you don't need fx loop but you'd probably need a 2 channel amp, so maybe look into Jet City or Laney VC series.


The current Laney VC series is low gain and vintage-sounding- not metal at all. I think the confusion is because Laney used to offer VC50 and VC100 combos- which were supposedly (I haven't tried them) combo versions of the VH100R, which is pretty high gain.

Quote by Tony Done
How about good clean (eg H&K), and use pedals for the metal? The thing about good cleans is that you can use them asthe foundation for a lot of other things.


Not generally as a foundation for good distortion, IMO. Everything that works towards a good clean tone (amp voicing etc., speaker voicing, even open-backed versus closed-backed) works against a good tight modern high gain distortion tone, at least in my experience and opinion.

If you ask me that's another one of those myths Arby likes to talk about- it sounds kind of plausible, and it sort of sounds like you know what you're talking about when you say it, and it's one of those nice neat aphorisms which a lot of people seem to like since it sort of simplifies the world (plus it's the kind of thing you'd want to believe since you're kind of getting to have your cake and eat it too, "Wow, so I can just get an awesome clean amp and buy pedals and get a killer high gain tone too? Why would anyone bother with a high gain amp then?"), but if you ask me it's a myth.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 21, 2015,
#26
Quote by diabolical
The Tiny Terror combo is not bad at all, actually quite decent for metal


I didn't even know there was a combo, I've played the head through their $100 8" cab, which probably doesn't do it justice. Looking at the combo, at least it's got a decent stock speaker