#1
Standard way of pickup makers determining the number of conductors on a pickup?

Is there a standard way for pickups makers determining the number of conductors on a pickup?

Do most pickup makers/guitarists not count the ground/shield only wires when determining the conductor amount?

Do most pickup makers/guitarists include the ground/shield only wires when determining the conductor amount?


Thoughts?

Thanks
Last edited by bachfantasia at Sep 21, 2015,
#2
​​
Quote by bachfantasia

Standard way for pickups makers determining the number of conductors on a pickup?

Typically they count them. Sometimes they will guess, as a fun game for the employees to wager on. ​Some of the larger companies like Duncan and DiMarzio have statisticians on retainer to ensure that they have counted the number correctly. A few boutique winders have started to employ physicists to ensure that the number of conductors remains stable down to the quantum level. The tonal benefits of such measures are contested, but for the true aficionado it is the only way to be absolutely sure that the person who wound your pickups counted up to as many as four wires correctly.
Quote by bachfantasia

Is there a standard way for pickups makers determining the number of conductors on a pickup?

Is there an echo in here?

​Do most pickup makers/guitarists not count the ground/shield only wires when determining the conductor amount?​

Unfortunately, I could not reach most, or even a solid majority, of pickup makers/guitarists for comment. Luckily, it would be very easy to determine such a thing with a very basic grasp of pickup wiring or electronics and ten minutes on the websites of a few companies that make pickups. Tragically, I cannot do so myself, because I have become stuck in a sort of Sisyphean quantum loop and am being tortured by sentient beings who live outside the dimension of time. Mostly they make me answer frustratingly dull questions over and over. Sometimes I give the same answer with one minor typographical change, to see if they're paying attention. ​
​Do most pickup makers/guitarists include the ground/shield only wires when determining the conductor amount?​
Unfortunately, I could not reach most, or even a solid majority, of pickup makers/guitarists for comment. Luckily, it would be very easy to determine such a thing with a very basic grasp of pickup wiring or electronics and ten minutes on the websites of a few companies that make pickups. Tragically, I cannot do so myself because I have become stuck in a sort of Sisyphean quantum loop and am being tortured by sentient beings who live outside the dimension of time. Mostly they make me answer frustratingly dull questions over and over. Sometimes I give the same answer with one minor typographical change, to see if they're paying attention.
​Thoughts?
​​
​A great many, few of which appear to be helpful here. The first one that comes to mind is that you ask a lot of questions and never seem to learn a damn thing about pickups. ​
#3
Quote by Roc8995
​​

Typically they count them. Sometimes they will guess, as a fun game for the employees to wager on. ​Some of the larger companies like Duncan and DiMarzio have statisticians on retainer to ensure that they have counted the number correctly. A few boutique winders have started to employ physicists to ensure that the number of conductors remains stable down to the quantum level. The tonal benefits of such measures are contested, but for the true aficionado it is the only way to be absolutely sure that the person who wound your pickups counted up to as many as four wires correctly.

Is there an echo in here?


Unfortunately, I could not reach most, or even a solid majority, of pickup makers/guitarists for comment. Luckily, it would be very easy to determine such a thing with a very basic grasp of pickup wiring or electronics and ten minutes on the websites of a few companies that make pickups. Tragically, I cannot do so myself, because I have become stuck in a sort of Sisyphean quantum loop and am being tortured by sentient beings who live outside the dimension of time. Mostly they make me answer frustratingly dull questions over and over. Sometimes I give the same answer with one minor typographical change, to see if they're paying attention. ​
​Unfortunately, I could not reach most, or even a solid majority, of pickup makers/guitarists for comment. Luckily, it would be very easy to determine such a thing with a very basic grasp of pickup wiring or electronics and ten minutes on the websites of a few companies that make pickups. Tragically, I cannot do so myself because I have become stuck in a sort of Sisyphean quantum loop and am being tortured by sentient beings who live outside the dimension of time. Mostly they make me answer frustratingly dull questions over and over. Sometimes I give the same answer with one minor typographical change, to see if they're paying attention.
​​​
​A great many, few of which appear to be helpful here. The first one that comes to mind is that you ask a lot of questions and never seem to learn a damn thing about pickups. ​






Post of the year. But, Roc, IS there a typographical change? I sat for a few moments trying to determine but I couldn't find it.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#4
Yes, there is, but it is very subtle.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#5
Quote by Roc8995
​​

Typically they count them. Sometimes they will guess, as a fun game for the employees to wager on. ​Some of the larger companies like Duncan and DiMarzio have statisticians on retainer to ensure that they have counted the number correctly. A few boutique winders have started to employ physicists to ensure that the number of conductors remains stable down to the quantum level. The tonal benefits of such measures are contested, but for the true aficionado it is the only way to be absolutely sure that the person who wound your pickups counted up to as many as four wires correctly.

Is there an echo in here?


Unfortunately, I could not reach most, or even a solid majority, of pickup makers/guitarists for comment. Luckily, it would be very easy to determine such a thing with a very basic grasp of pickup wiring or electronics and ten minutes on the websites of a few companies that make pickups. Tragically, I cannot do so myself, because I have become stuck in a sort of Sisyphean quantum loop and am being tortured by sentient beings who live outside the dimension of time. Mostly they make me answer frustratingly dull questions over and over. Sometimes I give the same answer with one minor typographical change, to see if they're paying attention. ​
​Unfortunately, I could not reach most, or even a solid majority, of pickup makers/guitarists for comment. Luckily, it would be very easy to determine such a thing with a very basic grasp of pickup wiring or electronics and ten minutes on the websites of a few companies that make pickups. Tragically, I cannot do so myself because I have become stuck in a sort of Sisyphean quantum loop and am being tortured by sentient beings who live outside the dimension of time. Mostly they make me answer frustratingly dull questions over and over. Sometimes I give the same answer with one minor typographical change, to see if they're paying attention.
​​​
​A great many, few of which appear to be helpful here. The first one that comes to mind is that you ask a lot of questions and never seem to learn a damn thing about pickups. ​



The first thing that comes to mind is that you give a lot of perfunctory answers and never seem to look outside the box. While I do appreciate all your feed back you have given me in the past, you never seem to realize that there are people out there looking for more than just surface level knowledge.

I'm sorry, but you must realize that there are many different facets of knowledge. While I do realize you must be some highly educated guitarist and are probably well versed in the subject, I'm more focused on the terminology and higher understanding of the music industry and it's vocabulary.

Please have respect and understand that I am seeking answers that most people never think about and seek to find common ground within the industry that many musicians don't realize exist. I know it might be hard for you and others to grasp, but what I am seeking is a better understanding of the music instrument language and how people interact with it.

It's my job to ask questions that other people don't so I can surface things for others for their benefit.

Thank you for understanding and please be respectful and try not to disrespect me.

Thank you.
#7
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Yes, there is, but it is very subtle.



Found it! Man, that was satisfying.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#8
Quote by bachfantasia
The first thing that comes to mind is that you give a lot of perfunctory answers and never seem to look outside the box. While I do appreciate all your feed back you have given me in the past, you never seem to realize that there are people out there looking for more than just surface level knowledge.

I'm sorry, but you must realize that there are many different facets of knowledge. While I do realize you must be some highly educated guitarist and are probably well versed in the subject, I'm more focused on the terminology and higher understanding of the music industry and it's vocabulary.

Please have respect and understand that I am seeking answers that most people never think about and seek to find common ground within the industry that many musicians don't realize exist. I know it might be hard for you and others to grasp, but what I am seeking is a better understanding of the music instrument language and how people interact with it.

It's my job to ask questions that other people don't so I can surface things for others for their benefit.

Thank you for understanding and please be respectful and try not to disrespect me.

Thank you.


Well, your initial 4 questions could have been whittled down to 2 clearer & more concise ones, I think, and a statement of your purpose in asking those questions might give insight as to how we should answer.

What is it you're seeking to figure out? I mean in the deeper sense, not just counting conductors & wires, but something like...IDK...insight into manufacturing methodologies? Quality control? Automation?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#9
Quote by bachfantasia
The first thing that comes to mind is that you give a lot of perfunctory answers and never seem to look outside the box. While I do appreciate all your feed back you have given me in the past, you never seem to realize that there are people out there looking for more than just surface level knowledge.

I'm sorry, but you must realize that there are many different facets of knowledge. While I do realize you must be some highly educated guitarist and are probably well versed in the subject, I'm more focused on the terminology and higher understanding of the music industry and it's vocabulary.

Please have respect and understand that I am seeking answers that most people never think about and seek to find common ground within the industry that many musicians don't realize exist. I know it might be hard for you and others to grasp, but what I am seeking is a better understanding of the music instrument language and how people interact with it.

It's my job to ask questions that other people don't so I can surface things for others for their benefit.

Thank you for understanding and please be respectful and try not to disrespect me.

Thank you.

I give perfunctory answers because you ask perfunctory questions. For all your posturing about asking questions beyond the surface level, I see zero evidence that you've bothered to learn even the basics. You consistently ask questions that are either so vague that they have no real answer, or need a lot of clarification to understand your actual idea, or show a complete lack of depth of understanding about the topic. It is fine to ask questions, but again you seem to come back week after week asking for answers instead of understanding. If you are thinking outside the box, it is because you appear not to know where the box is, or what it looks like. Attempting to turn difficult, nuanced issues into simple call-and-response threads tells me that you understand less, not more, than you're claiming.

This very question, for example, shows that you have failed to learn even entry level information about pickup conductors, despite asking questions about them for weeks now. You merely ask for someone to give you the information. If you genuinely had more than 'surface' knowledge, you would not be asking this question. The fact that you cannot figure out if the ground wire is included when we talk about "one-conductor" or "four-conductor" wiring means that you cannot look at a wiring diagram or picture of a pickup and figure that out instantly. If you had any intention of learning about pickups, you'd be able to do this - it is so fundamental that if you cannot figure it out, you have not been trying very hard. Instead of putting in enough time learning about pickups to be self-sufficient you have come back yet again to ask us to give you an answer. Last time you made a thread, I linked an FAQ which answered your question perfectly, and you still did not understand what was right in front of you, because you did not know how to interpret the information that was there.

So no, I do not agree that you're seeking a better understanding. I think you're seeking quick answers, and consistently farming out what is apparently your job to people who typically give their time to help people who genuinely need help or actually want to learn. I find it hard to respect what is quickly bordering on abuse of our knowledge base here.

Ask smarter questions, get smarter answers.
#10
Quote by Roc8995
I give perfunctory answers because you ask perfunctory questions. For all your posturing about asking questions beyond the surface level, I see zero evidence that you've bothered to learn even the basics. You consistently ask questions that are either so vague that they have no real answer, or need a lot of clarification to understand your actual idea, or show a complete lack of depth of understanding about the topic. It is fine to ask questions, but again you seem to come back week after week asking for answers instead of understanding. If you are thinking outside the box, it is because you appear not to know where the box is, or what it looks like. Attempting to turn difficult, nuanced issues into simple call-and-response threads tells me that you understand less, not more, than you're claiming.

This very question, for example, shows that you have failed to learn even entry level information about pickup conductors, despite asking questions about them for weeks now. You merely ask for someone to give you the information. If you genuinely had more than 'surface' knowledge, you would not be asking this question. The fact that you cannot figure out if the ground wire is included when we talk about "one-conductor" or "four-conductor" wiring means that you cannot look at a wiring diagram or picture of a pickup and figure that out instantly. If you had any intention of learning about pickups, you'd be able to do this - it is so fundamental that if you cannot figure it out, you have not been trying very hard. Instead of putting in enough time learning about pickups to be self-sufficient you have come back yet again to ask us to give you an answer. Last time you made a thread, I linked an FAQ which answered your question perfectly, and you still did not understand what was right in front of you, because you did not know how to interpret the information that was there.

So no, I do not agree that you're seeking a better understanding. I think you're seeking quick answers, and consistently farming out what is apparently your job to people who typically give their time to help people who genuinely need help or actually want to learn. I find it hard to respect what is quickly bordering on abuse of our knowledge base here.

Ask smarter questions, get smarter answers.


You are still missing the point. My main reason why I am asking the questions is not because I don't know the answer, it's because I'm trying to find out how other people answer and what their understanding of various products are.

I know it's hard for you and others to grasp this, because when you have a trained way of thinking your whole life, you have no other way to communicate with others, so I forgive you for that, because to be quite frank, you are a dime a dozen.

But just know that my line of questioning is for surveying musicians and to find out how they interact with the taxonomy and linguistics of the industry.

Let's just agree to disagree, but I'd appreciate it if you stopped answering my posts unless you have actual constructive things to say except insulting me and posting links to third party sites.

Thank you.
Last edited by bachfantasia at Sep 22, 2015,
#11
Quote by bachfantasia
You are still missing the point. My main reason why I am asking the questions is not because I don't know the answer, it's because I'm trying to find out how other people answer and what their understanding of various products are.

I know it's hard for you and others to grasp this, because when you have a trained way of thinking your whole life, you have no other way to communicate with others, so I forgive you for that, because to be quite frank, you are a dime a dozen.

But just know that my line of questioning is for surveying musicians and to find out how they interact with the taxonomy and linguistics of the industry.

Let's just agree to disagree, but I'd appreciate it if you stopped answering my posts unless you have actual constructive things to say except insulting me and posting links to third party sites.

Thank you.


if this is the case then you need to work on how you phrase your ?s. i read your initial post and i didn't get the vibe you are now trying to present from it at all. effective communication is pretty vital on a board like this. you didn't make what you wanted really clear and well you got what you got. keep in mind that many here are fairly new to the guitar so may not be up on all the terminolgy etc. know your audience.

by the way went to check your profile and it's private. really dude c'mon very stand offish thing to do.
Last edited by monwobobbo at Sep 22, 2015,
#12
Quote by bachfantasia
You are still missing the point. My main reason why I am asking the questions is not because I don't know the answer, it's because I'm trying to find out how other people answer and what their understanding of various products are.

I know it's hard for you and others to grasp this, because when you have a trained way of thinking your whole life, you have no other way to communicate with others, so I forgive you for that, because to be quite frank, you are a dime a dozen.

But just know that my line of questioning is for surveying musicians and to find out how they interact with the taxonomy and linguistics of the industry.

Let's just agree to disagree, but I'd appreciate it if you stopped answering my posts unless you have actual constructive things to say except insulting me and posting links to third party sites.

Thank you.


Wo, chill out Spock.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#13
Quote by bachfantasia
You are still missing the point. My main reason why I am asking the questions is not because I don't know the answer, it's because I'm trying to find out how other people answer and what their understanding of various products are.

I know it's hard for you and others to grasp this, because when you have a trained way of thinking your whole life, you have no other way to communicate with others, so I forgive you for that, because to be quite frank, you are a dime a dozen.

But just know that my line of questioning is for surveying musicians and to find out how they interact with the taxonomy and linguistics of the industry.

Let's just agree to disagree, but I'd appreciate it if you stopped answering my posts unless you have actual constructive things to say except insulting me and posting links to third party sites.

Thank you.


so you act obtuse on purpose?

well, if you line of questioning is for surveying musicians then you can know that most of them prefer snake oil and magic crystals rather than a solid understanding of fundamental principles.

there are a number people with some technical background on this forum though, so you'll get some oddly technical responses on the rare occasion they leave the WTLT thread.

but to answer your original question, i like as many conductors as possible. at least twice as many conductors as there are knobs on the guitar.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#14
Our terms of service forbid market research without express prior permission.

On top of that, UG is definitely not for trying to manipulate people into doing your job for you, even if you are sure that you are much more intelligent than they are.

In short: bye.