#1
Hey,

I currently own a 7 string and want to add a 6 string to my collection. I play through a Marshall DSL401 but will probably be changing amps to something more like a Peavey 6505+ combo or similar shortly, as I'd like my tone to be more modern metal than classic rock. That research is to come...

As far as guitars go, my budget is around £650 (around $1000 at current conversion rates but bear in mind guitar prices are not converted perfectly between US and UK, we usually get the short end of the stick over here).

I am mostly looking to play a lot of high gain drop tuning stuff, around Drop B, Drop C & Drop C#: August Burns Red, Gojira, Lamb of God, Machine Head, Marmozets, Periphery, Slipknot, Sylosis, Killswitch Engage, Royal Blood, Trivium, A Day To Remember etc.

I have been looking at the PRS SE Custom as I would like something a little different to the standard br00tal black super strat Ibanez. I'm not sure if they're suitable for music that heavy though. Having said that, I have been looking at the Ibanez RG series and Iron Label guitars but I've never been crazy about Ibanez super strat styling / pickups. Jacksons/ESPs loaded with Seymour Duncan/EMG active pickups are also in my internet history.

I have played with Seymour Duncan Blackouts and love the tone. I am less crazy about EMG 81/85s but they're so common, to rule them out would limit my choice too much I imagine. I don't know about many more "metal" pickups, my other guitars have passive pickups geared towards classic rock tones so I'm not too clued up.

I will consider any brand, styling or pickup configuration though, as my primary concern is playability. I am an upper-intermediate player and play music with a lot of sweep picking, tremolo picking, complex fretboard patterns, fast passages, technical leads / riffs etc. so a fast neck and light guitar etc. will take precedence over any concerns on less important matters like styling or brand.

I am located in London and I would prefer to buy new, but obviously if you have a great recommendation at used guitars which might fall within my budget and would be significantly better, I will listen to those recommendations.

EDIT: FIXED BRIDGE! I hate changing tunings on my current guitar which is equipped with a FR. All floating bridges I have come across have this problem, if I am not mistaken... Please correct me if wrong though
Quote by Duv
The only good thing about my MG30 was I was able to have it in my room for 5 years solely as a place to hide cigarettes and condoms.
Last edited by adstr123 at Sep 22, 2015,
#2
If you're looking at the PRS SE range, you might want to consider the SE Torrero. It has the same "wide thin" neck as the SE Custom, and 25.5" scale, plus an FR 1000 and EMGs(I know they're 81/85, but it might be worth a try), since it's almost in budget(they're about £699). Also has comes in colours other than black.
Quote by Diemon Dave
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#3
Jackson's pro series is just about attainable in that price range and they're great guitars.

If you're willing to go used, your options will be vast.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#4
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Jackson's pro series is just about attainable in that price range and they're great guitars.

If you're willing to go used, your options will be vast.

I just did a test comparison(no scales, because who has scales? I already know I'm a pie), and my Jackson(pro soloist) is a good bit heavier than my SE Custom.

Having said that, it's lighter than any of my LPs or my Tele.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#5
Quote by slapsymcdougal
If you're looking at the PRS SE range, you might want to consider the SE Torrero. It has the same "wide thin" neck as the SE Custom, and 25.5" scale, plus an FR 1000 and EMGs(I know they're 81/85, but it might be worth a try), since it's almost in budget(they're about £699). Also has comes in colours other than black.


Ohhh! Massive error! I know I wanted metal and for lots of people metal = FR but.... No FRs allowed I'm so sorry haha, I cant believe I made such a mistake. My current main axe has an FR bridge and I cannot deal with the difficulties of going between tunings, which I would be doing a fair bit of between Drop B - C - C# on this one. That's a beautiful guitar though. Why not the SE Custom btw?

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Jackson's pro series is just about attainable in that price range and they're great guitars.

If you're willing to go used, your options will be vast.


Thanks, I'll have a look! Sometimes manufacturers offer so many guitar lines its hard to pin down the right one. I think the Jackson website gave me that feeling and I gave up fairly quickly.

Do you have any used models in mind, off the top of your head?
Quote by Duv
The only good thing about my MG30 was I was able to have it in my room for 5 years solely as a place to hide cigarettes and condoms.
#6
Quote by adstr123
Ohhh! Massive error! I know I wanted metal and for lots of people metal = FR but.... No FRs allowed I'm so sorry haha, I cant believe I made such a mistake. My current main axe has an FR bridge and I cannot deal with the difficulties of going between tunings, which I would be doing a fair bit of between Drop B - C - C# on this one. That's a beautiful guitar though. Why not the SE Custom btw?


Thanks, I'll have a look! Sometimes manufacturers offer so many guitar lines its hard to pin down the right one. I think the Jackson website gave me that feeling and I gave up fairly quickly.

Do you have any used models in mind, off the top of your head?

TBH, it's more a 'have a look as well thing, not an instead of.

IMO(so YMMV), the pickups in the SE Custom are very much voiced towards classic/hard rock, rather than metal. They're not bad, but the amp settings that sound proper metal on a guitar like my Soloist or Destroyer, the SE Custom sounds... I dunno, muddy maybe?
FWIW, the trem on the SE Custom(not sure if there's a hardtail version) is pretty sturdy, and holds in tune well through some fairly gratuitous(but maybe not Dime-worthy) use.

In the Jackson line, you might want to check out the Pro Dinky. Te hardtail versions are smack on your price point, and a guitar store in Glasgow(not near you, I know, but I think they have a branch somewhere near(TM) London) has a really pretty one with a natural quilt top.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#7
Quote by adstr123


EDIT: FIXED BRIDGE! I hate changing tunings on my current guitar which is equipped with a FR. All floating bridges I have come across have this problem, if I am not mistaken... Please correct me if wrong though


You CAN have your alternate tunings and your Floyd as well.

I have a pair of JTV-89F's.

The "F" model comes with a Graphtech LB63 (a Floyd with a set of Graphtech's Ghost piezo saddles). Here's why that's important. The Variax alternate tuning setup allows you to change tunings immediately -- just rotate the switch and you have down and drop tunings all the way down to Baritone built in from the factory. The string tension never changes (the alternate tunings are all done via the Variax firmware) and the FR is never affected. Moreover, if you have one of the Line 6 Pods (or the new Helix) in either floor or rack model, you can set up a change to your alternate tuning as part of a user preset, and simply change amps/cabs/FX plus alternate tunings/amp models with a single stomp.

The 89F is a superstrat mahogany body (not particularly light, sorry) with a bolt neck (25.5" scale) with a 16" radius, wide nut, jumbo frets, wide/thin profile neck (satin finish). The existing pickups are fairly hot Tylers. There's a YouTube somewhere (from Line 6) that has the guitar doing downtunings all over the place.

And finally, there's a fixed-bridge version (the plain old JTV-89) as well. Both of mine came from the factory surprisingly well set up (which I wasn't expecting) and have been very stable (the oldest is about two years old now). Both are the Korean versions rather than the USA-built guitars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNC65P5s0I0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcLw9LbjIAU
#8
Check out Fernandes. They cater to the hard rock/metal set, and do have some fixed bridge models in their lineup: the Dragonfly and Ravelle for sure.

Godin's Redline HB is a nice little hardtail, 24 fret shred machine. Relatively inexpensive, too.

I would also recommend the Reverend Sensei RA: it is an SG-esque body, hardtail, and with RailHammer Chisel pickups designed for retaining tone & clarity for both the treble and bass frequencies. Their Volcano RA is essentially the same story, but with a V bodystyle.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Sep 22, 2015,
#9
So when I bought my Jackson Dinky DKMGT (string through body hard tail) it was in Drop C and seemed to handle it well according to the guy I purchased it from. I literally drove it to a shop to have it resetup on the way home so never played it that way.

If you want to go used the DKMGT with the EMG 81/85 would be the way to go. They had years where they put in the passive EMGHZ so make sure you know what you're buying.

Also look at the ESP LTD M and MH lines.

Do you want to keep with a 25.5" scale or do you want to go baritone for the down tuning?
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#10
While I guess it does fall under the "superstrat" category (not necessarily black though!), high-gain + Blackouts + fixed bridge + fast neck means one thing I guess, and that is Schecter Blackjack SLS: http://schecterguitars.com/international/guitars/blackjack-sls/blackjack-sls-c-1-a-2013-12-05-detail

You may also take a look at other models in the Blackjack SLS/ATX series, there are a few different shapes and options (including a singlecut one).
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
There's no point in trying to convince a moron.
#11
Quote by slapsymcdougal
In the Jackson line, you might want to check out the Pro Dinky. Te hardtail versions are smack on your price point, and a guitar store in Glasgow(not near you, I know, but I think they have a branch somewhere near(TM) London) has a really pretty one with a natural quilt top.


That looks great! From a quick look, it's pretty much everything I want. I like the colours and the great top, despite it being a generic super strat I think it looks good. Thanks man, definitely on the shortlist.

Quote by dspellman
You CAN have your alternate tunings and your Floyd as well.

I have a pair of JTV-89F's. (contd)


Well... shit. I have never heard of this guitar, but that's almost exactly what I want? A little over budget and ugly as sin, but that's not that important with all those features. Hanging round UG a lot though means there's a little purist sat on my shoulder... The guitar is doing processing of the signal internally, right? Doesn't that impact the tone at all? There must be some sort of downside.

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Check out Fernandes. They cater to the hard rock/metal set, and do have some fixed bridge models in their lineup: the Dragonfly and Ravelle for sure.

Godin's Redline HB is a nice little hardtail, 24 fret shred machine. Relatively inexpensive, too.

I would also recommend the Reverend Sensei RA: it is an SG-esque body, hardtail, and with RailHammer Chisel pickups designed for retaining tone & clarity for both the treble and bass frequencies. Their Volcano RA is essentially the same story, but with a V bodystyle.


Fernandes make some pretty guitars. Seem kinda hard to get in the UK though, from a quick search.
Same story with Godin, but I love that guitar, especially with natural finish.
The Reveren Sensai is on budget but do you think it's that suitable for my kind of music? Looks more catered towards lighter stuff to me - 22 frets, fairly thick neck, Korina body etc.

Quote by metalmingee
Also look at the ESP LTD M and MH lines.

Do you want to keep with a 25.5" scale or do you want to go baritone for the down tuning?


I did look briefly at ESP, I'll go back and have another. 25.5" has been fine in the past for me, by and large.
Quote by Duv
The only good thing about my MG30 was I was able to have it in my room for 5 years solely as a place to hide cigarettes and condoms.
#12
Quote by adstr123


Well... shit. I have never heard of this guitar, but that's almost exactly what I want? A little over budget and ugly as sin, but that's not that important with all those features. Hanging round UG a lot though means there's a little purist sat on my shoulder... The guitar is doing processing of the signal internally, right? Doesn't that impact the tone at all? There must be some sort of downside.


I started as a keyboard player. Piano and Hammond B3. "Nothing can replace a *real* piano and a "real" tonewheel."

I gave up "purist" a long time ago.

These days I have a Korg Kronos X and that sucker (in the right hands) can fill in for nearly any instrument in any western orchestra. The piano setups not only allow you to pick the kind of piano and the country it came from, but also how far up the lid on the grand is open.

I've accumulated a lot of guitars, a lot of amps, a lot of cabinets. But these days most of my playing runs through a modeler/multiFX. I own four Variax guitars (these have been around for maybe 10-11 years now), two of which are the JTV-89Fs. I think there are seven current Variax versions -- two LP style, two strat style, two superstrat style, all designed by James Tyler, and one new strat-ish style that's mostly Yamaha at core. The Tylers are available either as Korean-sourced guitars or as American-built (about 3X the cost), but the electronics, most of the hardware and the designs are identical between the two. I live within short driving distance of Line 6 in Calabasas and know some of the folks who design the stuff.

You have two choices with the 89F. You can play the standard pickups all day long, direct into a tube amp, and be as purist as you like. You can put AHB or EMG stuff in there if you like. No issues, but the stock pickups are some pretty hot passives and more than sufficient for metal.

You can also run the thing as a modeling guitar (the Variax electronics). Something like 25-29 different guitars/other stringed instruments. Strats, teles, LPs are spot on. One nice trick; there's no noise from the single coil models. P90's and strats can be recorded perfectly. There are even "miked acoustics" in there. Run them through a PA and turn your head, and they're also excellent.

For the alternate tunings they use pitch replacement technology. You can tune up or down about an octave per string. No change in string tension. And yes, processed like crazy, and they do a great job of it. I've used my Variax Acoustic 700 (looks like a thinline acoustic) to sneak bass into what looks like an all-acoustic worship band. You can tell the guitar players in the congregation because they're looking all over for the guy playing bass. You can set the two bottom strings to bass and run the other four standard (and finger pick) and that will *really* mess 'em up.

So if you downtune with a standard 6-string, you generally set up one really good "middle" tuning with whatever strings work well. As soon as you switch that tuning, your strings get much tighter (or more slack) and the whole setup changes. You have to sit around redoing your tuning between songs, and that just doesn't work all that well live unless you don't ever actually change tunings.

There are bands using the Variax who change tunings three times during a song. Because they can. There's a YouTube out there of at least one of them whose guitar player works that into his compositions. If you CAN do it, you WILL do it.

A few months ago I wanted to try extending the range of the six string Variax a bit, so I tuned the guitar in fifths instead of fourths. By doing that, you enter seven and even eight-string range.

Sound quality... UG has a few long-time players, a few working musicians and a whole lot of beginners and bedroom players. The stock amp recommendation is a 6505 tube amp and the stock guitar recommendation is a $500 Ibanez or Schecter with actives. This is NOT the home of objective sonic purism, trust me. But IF you run the guitar into a Pod via the VDI (ethernet) cable, you eliminate all guitar cable resistance and capacitance issues, at least in that run. You can store alternate tunings in the user presets and change them with a single stomp, on the fly. The ethernet cable also runs the output of the magnetic pickups (no RF noise from the cable run), provides power to the guitar (normally provided by a video camera battery in the back of the guitar) and transmits user preset changes to the guitar. But wait, there's more. You can edit the models on the guitar quite extensively using supplied editing software, and you can change the alternate tunings stored on the guitar itself from the factory presets to something you like better.

Worth a look.
#13
Quote by adstr123

The Reveren Sensai is on budget but do you think it's that suitable for my kind of music? Looks more catered towards lighter stuff to me - 22 frets, fairly thick neck, Korina body etc

Don't judge too much with your eyes, those Reverends- and others- will handle metal just fine. Recognize these guys?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6FoEyW_LQc&sns=em
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Sep 23, 2015,
#14
Since your looking at PRS, why not the PRS Paul Allender SE it is a Baritone and was available with EMG and PRS SE passives depending on the year it was made. You'd have to go used, but they run <$400 used normally
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#15
Quote by adstr123
Ohhh! Massive error! I know I wanted metal and for lots of people metal = FR


Only a minority of heavy metal uses trems. It's mostly an 80s thing. If you want to be a flamboyant fiddler, it's a great thing to have, but really it's not that important. There are a lot of excellent metal guitarists who never use them.
#16
Schecter would definitely be worth looking into. One or two of the shops on Denmark Street have a fairly large selection of Schecters to choose from. There would also be a decent selection of Ibanez guitars and other suitable options.
Guitars & Gear:
Parker Nitefly M
Sumer Metal Driver
Ibanez RGD2120Z
AMT SS-11B
Two Notes Torpedo CAB
#17
Thanks everyone for all your help! I think at this point I'm focussing on Jackson Dinkys and Schecter SLS/ATX series. Im very interested in the JTV-89F but I think I need to play one first, it's a little out of my budget. I'll try and find one, Denmark Street is definitely my first stop!
Quote by Duv
The only good thing about my MG30 was I was able to have it in my room for 5 years solely as a place to hide cigarettes and condoms.