#1
hello

I am going in the direction of buying LTD EC1000 as I am interested in les Paul shape and felt that this guitar is very close to What I need. Yesterday I went to a music shop to get a speaker cable for my new laney studio head and I came across some original gibsons which is really rare in Egypt. I fell in love with the les Paul faded standard.i just held it but couldn't play it as in Egypt they won't let you plug and try the guitar unless you are a serious buyer (cash in your pocket and once you like the guitar you will buy it).
I googled this guitar and of course all feedback was positive mentioning the vintage sound of this guitar. At the end most of my play is heavy metal. This guitar is more than double price of the LTD EC1000 but I can wait few months to get this Les Paul if it will fit heavy metal. Thoughts and suggestions please ... Gibson Les Paul Faded Standard vs LTD EC1000 for a heavy metal player ??
#2
What kind of metal are we talking about, friend?

The LP is indeed great looking and fairly versatile but, in my opinion, one of its strenghts resides on the vintage tone you read about which may fall short in terms of heavy metal playing.
ceci n'est pas un guitariste.
Last edited by wobi_vengeance at Oct 4, 2015,
#3
Quote by wobi_vengeance
What kind of metal are we talking about, friend?


90's Metallica and megadeth style
#4
A lot of your tone comes from your amp. I think the most important thing in a guitar is the feel. You can always upgrade the pickups if you don't like the stock ones.

But why not wait until you have the money and try it? I mean, you said you have to buy it if you like it. So there's really nothing to lose. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. And if you like it, why wouldn't you buy it?

Does the store also have the LTD? I mean, I'm pretty sure they would let you compare the two.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#5
Quote by mockbel
90's Metallica and megadeth style

It will work just fine for that type of music. But you really need to try it first
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#6
Quote by MaggaraMarine
A lot of your tone comes from your amp. I think the most important thing in a guitar is the feel. You can always upgrade the pickups if you don't like the stock ones.

But why not wait until you have the money and try it? I mean, you said you have to buy it if you like it. So there's really nothing to lose. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. And if you like it, why wouldn't you buy it?

Does the store also have the LTD? I mean, I'm pretty sure they would let you compare the two.


LTD is available in another store, the authorized dealer itself actually so I tried it before and liked it so much. As I mentioned in my post, I was on the direction to get the LTD EC but I have been always seeing les paul shape guitars other than Gibson are just a clone so when I found the original les paul in front of my eyes... ideas started to shake again in my mind. LTD is for 7,500 Egyptian pounds which is around $900... The Gibson is for 16,000 Egyptian pounds which is more than $2,000 ... big difference

I will try to break the ice with the sales guy (who is the shop owner as well) and do my best to play this guitar sometime before I decide to buy it...

However, I see from the responses in general that Gibson kicks the LTD.. is my understanding right?
#7
that LTD is a really good guitar. the LP you mentioned is one of gibson's lower end models so in terms of quality i wouldn't necessarily say it woud kick the LTS ass at all. the difference will be in the pickups which is an easy thing to change. many gibson's have more vintage style pickups which may not be ideal for what you want. easy fix though. as mentioned your amp will have a great deal to do with the final tonal outcome. i can get acceptable metallica or megadeth tones (80s) out of my SG when played thru my Peavey Ultra with an overdrive.
#8
Quote by monwobobbo
that LTD is a really good guitar. the LP you mentioned is one of gibson's lower end models so in terms of quality i wouldn't necessarily say it woud kick the LTS ass at all.


If this statement is 100% correct I would go for the LTD without thinking !!!!
LTD is less price, 24 frets and I have already tried and liked it...
#9
Quote by mockbel
If this statement is 100% correct I would go for the LTD without thinking !!!!
LTD is less price, 24 frets and I have already tried and liked it...


well it's my opinion obviously others may disagree. if you liked the LTD and it suites your needs then go for it. no real reason to spend that much more on the gibson.
#10
Quote by monwobobbo
that LTD is a really good guitar. the LP you mentioned is one of gibson's lower end models so in terms of quality i wouldn't necessarily say it woud kick the LTS ass at all


He is speaking of the Standard Faded. I have one, and it's a Standard without the clear coat, so I wouldn't call it "lower end" at all. They cost up towards 75% of the regular Standard new, which made them about halfway between the Studio and Standard.
"Your signature can not be longer than 250 characters."

How you know you have too many guitars...

Apparently once also known as PonyFan #834553.
#11
Quote by HomerSGR
He is speaking of the Standard Faded. I have one, and it's a Standard without the clear coat, so I wouldn't call it "lower end" at all. They cost up towards 75% of the regular Standard new, which made them about halfway between the Studio and Standard.


still by gibson standards lower end. not the bottom but it's closer to the bottom than the top. not dissing the guitar at all just making a point.
#12
Quote by HomerSGR
He is speaking of the Standard Faded. I have one, and it's a Standard without the clear coat, so I wouldn't call it "lower end" at all. They cost up towards 75% of the regular Standard new, which made them about halfway between the Studio and Standard.

IIRC the Standard Faded have Burstbuckers in(maybe the Pro version?), which might be a little more vintage-y than TS is looking for.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#13
Quote by slapsymcdougal
IIRC the Standard Faded have Burstbuckers in(maybe the Pro version?), which might be a little more vintage-y than TS is looking for.


It has the Burstbucker Pro's, yes. Insanely powerful sounding pickups, make no mistake. May just be my guitar, but I fully expect to blow out the windows when I plug it in... and that's even compared to EMG 81, Blackouts and similar.

Not vintage sounding at all, IMO.
"Your signature can not be longer than 250 characters."

How you know you have too many guitars...

Apparently once also known as PonyFan #834553.
#14
Quote by monwobobbo
that LTD is a really good guitar. the LP you mentioned is one of gibson's lower end models so in terms of quality i wouldn't necessarily say it woud kick the LTS ass at all. the difference will be in the pickups which is an easy thing to change. many gibson's have more vintage style pickups which may not be ideal for what you want. easy fix though. as mentioned your amp will have a great deal to do with the final tonal outcome. i can get acceptable metallica or megadeth tones (80s) out of my SG when played thru my Peavey Ultra with an overdrive.



Actually the Standard Faded isn't considered one of the lower models, it's a full blown Standard with a thin Nitro finish. It was done long before the other "faded" models were and for different reasons than cutting costs, these have a high resale value equivalent to the used Standard itself.
Moving on.....
#15
Quote by KenG
Actually the Standard Faded isn't considered one of the lower models, it's a full blown Standard with a thin Nitro finish. It was done long before the other "faded" models were and for different reasons than cutting costs, these have a high resale value equivalent to the used Standard itself.


i stand corrected
#16
Quote by HomerSGR
He is speaking of the Standard Faded. I have one, and it's a Standard without the clear coat, so I wouldn't call it "lower end" at all. They cost up towards 75% of the regular Standard new, which made them about halfway between the Studio and Standard.


It's actually a standard with a semi-matte clear coat. Not "without" the clear coat. De-Glossing agents (like talc) are added to standard gloss paint to achieve matte and semi-matte finishes while maintaining the same film thickness. Same thing goes for wall paint -- all of those "levels of gloss" that your wife considers (eggshell, semi-matte, matte, etc.) are just determined by the amount of de-glossing agent added to the base paint. And by the way, the finish is no "thinner" than any other Standard and trust me, "thinner" in a nitrocellulose finish is not a good thing anyway.

Gibson uses the faded and matte finishes because it's cheaper (in terms of labor and quality control) and eliminates a lot of the sanding and polishing steps that are required for gloss finishes to be smooth (and not orange-peeled, etc.). The cheaper the guitar, the more crap the finish until you get to their bottom of the line, which eliminates grain fill and some other preliminary steps and substitutes a couple of coats of matte finish to get to a price point.

Then their Marketing department copywriters go to work and come up with phrases like, "stripped down rock and roll" "no nonsense" and "sinister" (black paint) and "worn" and "VOS" and so on.

It's all just happy horseshit and production-to-a-price-point and marketing foof.
Last edited by dspellman at Oct 4, 2015,
#17
Quote by dspellman
It's actually a standard with a semi-matte clear coat. Not "without" the clear coat. De-Glossing agents (like talc) are added to standard gloss paint to achieve matte and semi-matte finishes while maintaining the same film thickness. Same thing goes for wall paint -- all of those "levels of gloss" that your wife considers (eggshell, semi-matte, matte, etc.) are just determined by the amount of de-glossing agent added to the base paint. And by the way, the finish is no "thinner" than any other Standard and trust me, "thinner" in a nitrocellulose finish is not a good thing anyway.

Gibson uses the faded and matte finishes because it's cheaper (in terms of labor and quality control) and eliminates a lot of the sanding and polishing steps that are required for gloss finishes to be smooth (and not orange-peeled, etc.). The cheaper the guitar, the more crap the finish until you get to their bottom of the line, which eliminates grain fill and some other preliminary steps and substitutes a couple of coats of matte finish to get to a price point.

Then their Marketing department copywriters go to work and come up with phrases like, "stripped down rock and roll" "no nonsense" and "sinister" (black paint) and "worn" and "VOS" and so on.

It's all just happy horseshit and production-to-a-price-point and marketing foof.


Seems like you have some good experience with Gibsons.. and seems like you are not recommending this guitar. Am I correct?
#18
Quote by mockbel
Seems like you have some good experience with Gibsons.. and seems like you are not recommending this guitar. Am I correct?


No, that's not accurate. I DO have good experience with Gibsons (and a pretty good stack of them), and if you're buying used, it's probably a very good idea. I *do* reserve the right to natter on about some of their choices (particularly regarding marketing).
#19
Quote by dspellman
No, that's not accurate. I DO have good experience with Gibsons (and a pretty good stack of them), and if you're buying used, it's probably a very good idea. I *do* reserve the right to natter on about some of their choices (particularly regarding marketing).


I am just talking about the faded standard which I felt that you are not recommending it
#20
The Standard Faded "should" be a better guitar, IMHO better than the EC1000, and I have owned two of those. For what you are wanting to play they should both do the trick, the Gibson might be the more versatile of the two and will definitely have a higher resale value. I can find the EC1000 used for sub $450 all the time.
Gibson LP traditional and DC standard, PRS S2 Custom 24, Schecter Banshee 7
EVH 5153, Mesa DR Tremoverb combo 2-2x12's
Line 6 M13
#21
I tried to look on YouTube for any comparison videos between these two guitars but I couldn't find any. It was like I am trying to find a comparison between apple and orange!!!

I don't know is that because of the huge price difference between them or because they are serving totally different styles !!
#22
I can not be done. The Les Paul can do classic rock,jazz,punk,hard rock,funk,country,blues,classical,worship,emo,screamo,post modern caveman pre modern cavegirl and all other genera but not metal. Sorry
Bhaok

The following statement is true. The proceeding statement is false.
#23
I get a kick out of the people who think that a Gibson Les Paul with "vintage" voiced humbuckers can't do metal. Apparently all I need to do to get massive metal tones out of a Fender Twin is slap a Dimebucker or some EMG's into one of my guitars.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#24
Quote by ThunderPunk
I get a kick out of the people who think that a Gibson Les Paul with "vintage" voiced humbuckers can't do metal. Apparently all I need to do to get massive metal tones out of a Fender Twin is slap a Dimebucker or some EMG's into one of my guitars.

Not saying it can't be done. Saying that the other option(the LTD) might do it better.

Well, I wasn't saying that, anyway. Didn't read 2 posts up.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#25
Quote by Bhaok
I can not be done. The Les Paul can do classic rock,jazz,punk,hard rock,funk,country,blues,classical,worship,emo,screamo,post modern caveman pre modern cavegirl and all other genera but not metal. Sorry


Huh?



These are essentially the same guitar, with the primary difference being a set of pickups and the secondary difference a couple of extra frets.

Last edited by dspellman at Oct 6, 2015,
#26
TS, if you preferred the feel of the Gibson to the LTD, it is the better guitar for you. But if brand is the only thing that is making you choose one over the other, I wouldn't get the Gibson (unless you absolutely need to own a real Gibson - and if this is the case, get the Gibson because you won't be happy otherwise). When it comes to sound, I would expect the LTD to fit the music you want to play better. But sound can always be upgraded.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#27
IF you read what I posted and did not realize i was trolling you need to step away from the internut for a while. My favored guitar is a The Heritage 170 with a Seth Lover in the bridge. Not exactly a high output pickup. Metal tone is more in the amp and extra goodies in the signal chain plus the operator then the guitar its self
Bhaok

The following statement is true. The proceeding statement is false.
#28
Quote by Bhaok
IF you read what I posted and did not realize i was trolling you need to step away from the internut for a while. My favored guitar is a The Heritage 170 with a Seth Lover in the bridge. Not exactly a high output pickup. Metal tone is more in the amp and extra goodies in the signal chain plus the operator then the guitar its self



The pre-modern cavegirl genre reference should have been obvious enough.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#29
Quote by MaggaraMarine
TS, if you preferred the feel of the Gibson to the LTD, it is the better guitar for you. But if brand is the only thing that is making you choose one over the other, I wouldn't get the Gibson (unless you absolutely need to own a real Gibson - and if this is the case, get the Gibson because you won't be happy otherwise). When it comes to sound, I would expect the LTD to fit the music you want to play better. But sound can always be upgraded.


+1

90% of my attraction to the Gibson is that it is a "Original Gibson Les Paul" and holding a les paul shape from other brand is like having a close of an original guitar.

If I get this idea out of my mind, the LTD is fitting my style more and of course will make me save some good amount of cash !

I think it will be the LTD. Now I am exploring the EC-1000 Deluxe options. They are having many models with different specs and finishes. One of the is the EC-1000T which is 22 frets, exact Gibson Les Paul cut and thickness. All other EC-1000 models have a slight different cut at the back to make the guitar weight less and easier to hold. I believe I will need to pay a visit to ESP dealer and shortlist few models and try them. Excluding the EC-1000VB which has an ebony fretboard, all other models have rosewood fretboard and all are mahogany body. It will be a tough choice
#30
I tried the EC-1000 S and EC-1000 VB... They are typical except the fretboard which is rosewood in the EC-1000 S and ebony in the VB... to be honest, I couldn't notice a difference in sound or playability but I read few articles regarding difference between fretboard wood types and their effect on sound and response to weather changes... any useful details regarding this matter which can help me going for one over the other?
#31
Quote by mockbel
I tried the EC-1000 S and EC-1000 VB... They are typical except the fretboard which is rosewood in the EC-1000 S and ebony in the VB... to be honest, I couldn't notice a difference in sound or playability but I read few articles regarding difference between fretboard wood types and their effect on sound and response to weather changes... any useful details regarding this matter which can help me going for one over the other?

If you can't notice a difference, then it doesn't matter.

I personally think the difference is so small between one wood and another (when it comes to an amplified electric guitar, of course. Acoustics are a different story) that any difference that could be there is going to be drowned out by other variables found in a realistic setting. That's not to say that there is no difference; if you made a guitar out of styrofoam then there would definitely be a difference. But the density of the woods that guitars are typically made from are too similar to one another for much of a difference to be apparent. The marketing that guitar manufacturers use make the differences out to be far greater than what they really are.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Oct 20, 2015,
#32
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
If you can't notice a difference, then it doesn't matter.

I personally think the difference is so small between one wood and another (when it comes to an amplified electric guitar, of course. Acoustics are a different story) that any difference that could be there is going to be drowned out by other variables found in a realistic setting. That's not to say that there is no difference; if you made a guitar out of styrofoam then there would definitely be a difference. But the density of the woods that guitars are typically made from are too similar to one another for much of a difference to be apparent. The marketing that guitar manufacturers use make the differences out to be far greater than what they really are.


Thanks

What about the response to weather? is that a real issue that could damage the wood itself? I am in Egypt which is very hot in summer by the way
#33
Quote by mockbel

90% of my attraction to the Gibson is that it is a "Original Gibson Les Paul" and holding a les paul shape from other brand is like having a close of an original guitar.

If I get this idea out of my mind, the LTD is fitting my style more and of course will make me save some good amount of cash !

I think it will be the LTD.


I think that 90% of folks who actually buy the Gibson have the same reasons for doing so.

Once you get over that, other brands with a similar body shape can make a lot more sense.
#34
Quote by mockbel
Thanks

What about the response to weather? is that a real issue that could damage the wood itself? I am in Egypt which is very hot in summer by the way

Again, this is a lot more of an issue with acoustic guitars than electrics. But the problem with wood expanding and contracting with different weather conditions can still apply somewhat to electrics. It's more the humidity that affects guitars than temperature. If you're in such a hot and dry country that gets very cold at night, then it's not a bad idea to keep the guitar stored in its case with a humidifier when you're not using it. Basically, keep the guitar in a consistent environment as you can.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Oct 20, 2015,