#1
Hey guys. Quick question if you don't mind. I have a guy who wants to trade me an ashdown 4x10 bass cabinet for one of my amps I never use. It's an 8ohm cabinet. But I don't play bass. Would there be any problem with me hooking up my guitar amp head (also 8ohm) to the bass cabinet? I would mostly use it as an extra cabinet but if probably use it for live shows. I realize it will probably sound a bit different, but would it hurt anything?
Thanks
#2
"hurt" anything, in terms of causing damage, no.

It does seem like a questionable exchange, however, if you don't play bass and don't plan to.
#3
Well I guess what I don't quite understand is: is a speaker cabinet just a speaker cabinet or is there really a difference between a 4x10 bass cab and a 4x10 guitar cab? For example, is there really any difference (other than names and brands) between say an ashdown 4x10 bass cab and a Marshall 4x10 guitar cabinet? (I'm just throwing names out)
#4
I gues more like will it hurt anything? And if not would it probably just sound terrible?
Thanks again btw
#5
usually, those cabs are rated at like 650watts. Has a crossover to the horn also.
IMHO, you would have to gut the crossover and replace speakers with decent range speakers in the wattage
range of most guitar amps. Maybe 30w speakers. And of course wire them to the
ohms you need.
RavenWest 1000Q/Schecter neck
ibanez RG3EXFM1 /Dimarzio Evolution
Martin Stinger ST-4 /Kona Strat neck
Martin Stinger ST-2
Squire DG-9 acoustic
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Bugera 333
2x12 homemade cab
Marshall AVT150H head
B-52 4x12 cab
#6
Okay. So while it probably wouldn't hurt anything, it probably wouldn't sound very good
#7
Hmm... I probably am confusing myself, but I checked the frequency response of my current guitar speaker versus that ashdown cabinet this guy has and they are both the same bass-wise. The ashdown goes from 70hz-20khz and my speaker goes from 70hz-5.5khz. The bass speaker goes higher than mine. Theoretically anyway.
Hm. Thanks for all the help guys
#8
I have never tried it, but I think that's correct.
Could be a nice project, though.
RavenWest 1000Q/Schecter neck
ibanez RG3EXFM1 /Dimarzio Evolution
Martin Stinger ST-4 /Kona Strat neck
Martin Stinger ST-2
Squire DG-9 acoustic
Jay Turser JT Slimmer
Bugera 333
2x12 homemade cab
Marshall AVT150H head
B-52 4x12 cab
#9
I've run my amp through a Peavey 215 before, sounds kinda cool.
My current at home setup is an Ampeg VT40 4x10 combo on top of a 215 Univox bass/guitar cab, sounds beefy as hell.

You can also jam with bassplayers and they don't have to haul their cab around.
..I was watching my death.
#10
Quote by Lgarretto
For example, is there really any difference (other than names and brands) between say an ashdown 4x10 bass cab and a Marshall 4x10 guitar cabinet? (I'm just throwing names out)


Of course there is.

A Marshall 4x10 guitar cabinet is filled with guitar-grade speakers designed to work in the 100Hz - 4000Hz range. Not only are the 10" speakers NOT designed to handle low end, but they have very limited Xmax (cone excursion distance). In addition, a 4x10 cabinet can either be closed or open back and produce great guitar noises (I used an open back 4x10 for a long time).

An Ashdown 4x10 bass cabinet will generally have more internal volume, will always be closed back and will use speakers specifically designed for bass. A speaker tasked with producing a note an octave lower will need to move four times as much air to produce the same volume. That means more power, that means more cone excursion, etc. Playing a bass note through a guitar speaker at gig volumes can easily have the voice coil jumping out of its channel. The cabinet itself will usually have at least a tweeter, because bass is actually a wider-range instrument (counterintuitive, I know) than an electric guitar in the use we've become accustomed to. Bass players want a full-range cabinet if they're going to be doing slap bass, etc.
#11
Quote by Lgarretto
The ashdown goes from 70hz-20khz and my speaker goes from 70hz-5.5khz. The bass speaker goes higher than mine. Theoretically anyway.
Hm. Thanks for all the help guys


The Ashdown cabinet you're referring to isn't a great bass speaker (though it doesn't matter in your case).

A low E on a standard 6-string guitar is 82Hz. A normal four-string bass is tuned an octave below the bottom strings on a guitar, which means that the low E on a bass is around 41Hz. Specifically, E1=41.20Hz, A1=55Hz, D2=73.42Hz, G2=98Hz
#12
I know a guy that was playing bass through an Ashdown 4x10 and the entire cabinet disassembled in the middle of the gig. Like literally fell apart on the stage.
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#13
The problem is, guitar speakers cut the highs because that's what a good guitar tone requires. Bass speakers don't.

Without cutting the highs, guitar just sounds harsh, especially if you use distortion (plug your distortion pedal straight to a mixer and you'll know what I mean). It could work if you used guitar speaker emulation (for example from a multi-FX pedal). But it won't work well if you plug your guitar head to a bass cabinet - it will just sound harsh.
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#14
And Ashdown bass cabs sound shit even for bass - even if the cab manages to stay together.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#15
Quote by MaggaraMarine
The problem is, guitar speakers cut the highs because that's what a good guitar tone requires. Bass speakers don't.

Without cutting the highs, guitar just sounds harsh, especially if you use distortion (plug your distortion pedal straight to a mixer and you'll know what I mean). It could work if you used guitar speaker emulation (for example from a multi-FX pedal). But it won't work well if you plug your guitar head to a bass cabinet - it will just sound harsh.


This- your cleans will probably sound kind of cool / really clean and cover a huge frequency spectrum. But any distortion will sound re-he-he-eally bad.
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#16
Quote by Cathbard
I know a guy that was playing bass through an Ashdown 4x10 and the entire cabinet disassembled in the middle of the gig. Like literally fell apart on the stage.


You always have something good to say man.
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#17
Quote by MaggaraMarine
The problem is, guitar speakers cut the highs because that's what a good guitar tone requires. Bass speakers don't.


That's what the current *fashion* in guitar tone requires.
But that hasn't always been true, nor will it necessarily continue.

In the early '70's there was a great "Search for Treble." I have a couple of guitars that featured Bartolini active pickups that have *two* treble boosts. Several more that have one, and several old pedals that have treble boosts built in.

My first amp was a Vox Super Beatle that had four 12" speakers and two mid/high horns. I have a 1971 Carvin head with 275W. The cabinet is a ported closed-back monster with a pair of Altec-Lansing 418-8A 15" speakers and a mids/high horn. Acoustic (brand-name) 261 cabinets of the time had a similar configuration.



Guitar players have stagnated in the same old 4x12 with a 100W tube amp morass for a long time, and that blame falls in no small part on manufacturers who have been too lazy to innovate and/or threaten high profits from the status quo.
#18
Or it's simply that big tube amps into a 4x12 is just the sweet spot. That could be its natural conclusion. And the only reason smaller amps are becoming popular is the pussification of society. It used to be that it wasn't a good night unless your ears were ringing. Nowadays they're complaining if they can't talk to each other - while you'r playing, the arrogant arsholes. It didn't used to matter how loud your amp was because the PA was always cranking hard. Now if you do that the poor little darlings bitch like a little, well, bitch.
Before everybody started being precious little princesses all that mattered was the tone and what was everybody using? Big tube amp and a 4x12 or two.
Stop being a keyboards player for a minute and admit it, you love standing in front of a 4x12 with a honking great tube amp cranking out a wall of window demolishing sound. It's good. Embrace the dark side, it will save you from being another keyboards nerd.
I mean, let's face it, what are these high end modelling outfits actually trying to replicate in sound anyway?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Oct 15, 2015,
#19
Quote by Cathbard
Or it's simply that big tube amps into a 4x12 is just the sweet spot. That could be its natural conclusion. And the only reason smaller amps are becoming popular is the pussification of society. It used to be that it wasn't a good night unless your ears were ringing. Nowadays they're complaining if they can't talk to each other - while you'r playing, the arrogant arsholes. It didn't used to matter how loud your amp was because the PA was always cranking hard. Now if you do that the poor little darlings bitch like a little, well, bitch.
Before everybody started being precious little princesses all that mattered was the tone and what was everybody using? Big tube amp and a 4x12 or two.
Stop being a keyboards player for a minute and admit it, you love standing in front of a 4x12 with a honking great tube amp cranking out a wall of window demolishing sound. It's good. Embrace the dark side, it will save you from being another keyboards nerd.
I mean, let's face it, what are these high end modelling outfits actually trying to replicate in sound anyway?


gotta be the post of the week

ah for the good old days when we were ignorant and just wanted to crank that 100 watt head into a 4x12 cuz that was how it was done. simpler times better tones
#20
I don't suppose I can argue with that
Well, so if anyone wants to know I tried it out. Plugged my head into that ashdown 4x10 and messed around with it. Honestly it doesn't sound bad. I was surprised. I mean, an actual guitar cabinet will probably sound much better. But this doesn't sound terrible. It handles both clean and distortion pretty well. It's actually somewhat difficult to get a clean sound out of this bass cabinet however.
So all in all, my opinion, the ashdown 410 bass cabinet with a tweeter doesn't really sound horrible. It sounds pretty close to my 1x12. Which is my only real complaint. With the tweeter off it doesn't sound good, too bassy. If its on it sounds very similar to my 1x12 (which has an eminence man o war btw). Except with more low end. Boomier. Which is what I wanted.
At higher volumes the downsides of the bass cabinet come out. It still sounds okay, but it takes a bit more volume to make the ashdown as loud as my 1x12.

In the end I just wanted to know what would happen. And I'm somewhat pleasantly surprised. A 4x12 would sound better likely. But I was curious
#21
There's actually fairly little difference in the sound of a bass cab vs a PA cab. It's not uncommon for bassists to use PA cabs to play, in a pinch. PA speakers obviously will be more neutral on average, though a lot of bass cabs are as well. (ashdown isn't typically one of those, though)

Basically what that means is the bass cab will typically reproduce the sound from your head more faithfully than a guitar cab could, but that's not necessarily what you'd want. If you try it again, often there's a bypass on the back that turns the tweeter off. It helps a lot.
Nope, no sig here.
#22
I bought an old Peavey 410S bass cab a few weeks ago with the intention of using it for guitar
Works pretty good, probably because the early Peavey bass bins just use the regular Scorpion guitar speakers
I use a lot of octave pedals (Mothership, Tender Octaver, Second Voice, Boss OC-1 etc) so I figure the extra bass range is useful

Unpopular with bass players though, because they like a horn and even more range if they play a five-string
These cabs are also really deep (front to back) about twice the depth of a quad. That and the ports give it the extra bottom end range
So they're a bit cumbersome and probably won't fit in most cars. I don't care 'cos I don't gig much these days
I'd like to get another one for a stereo setup to use in my upcoming psychedelic freakout ambient looping solo gig

oh yeah, and it was only $95 delivered which makes it even better


Last edited by squatch57 at Mar 3, 2017,
#23
Since we've raised the dead anyway (this old thread)...

I've been using full range cabinets originally designed for bass for a couple of years now. Mine have a single 15" neo-based speaker specifically designed for bass (Eminence Kappalite 3015LF). Mids are handled by a 6.5" 18Sound driver, and highs go through a 1" tweeter. The cabinet is slot-ported and the whole thing is remarkably light (around 50 lbs) and pretty compact for something that will handle 900W and stand toe-to-toe with the old 130-lb 8x10 refrigerators.

For extended-range, downtuned and octaver-enhanced guitar sounds, you need the extra power, however. I have a power amp that will crank 900W with a single speaker attached and around 1500W into a pair. You can get sounds out of it with a wimpy 100W Marshall, but it's a bit like running a top-fuel dragster with a Honda Civic engine. It's not about the loud, but about being able to produce clean response in the bottom end.
#24
Quote by dspellman
Since we've raised the dead anyway (this old thread)...

I've been using full range cabinets originally designed for bass for a couple of years now. Mine have a single 15" neo-based speaker specifically designed for bass (Eminence Kappalite 3015LF). Mids are handled by a 6.5" 18Sound driver, and highs go through a 1" tweeter. The cabinet is slot-ported and the whole thing is remarkably light (around 50 lbs) and pretty compact for something that will handle 900W and stand toe-to-toe with the old 130-lb 8x10 refrigerators.

For extended-range, downtuned and octaver-enhanced guitar sounds, you need the extra power, however. I have a power amp that will crank 900W with a single speaker attached and around 1500W into a pair. You can get sounds out of it with a wimpy 100W Marshall, but it's a bit like running a top-fuel dragster with a Honda Civic engine. It's not about the loud, but about being able to produce clean response in the bottom end.


I agree with the need for power, even if you're doing ambient stuff you want the amps idling so the bass is solid and pure
In the 70's I worked in hifi and we often demoed speakers with the big Phase Linear amps, makes a big difference to the bass
A good damping factor spec on the amp helps too

As much as I love my old Super Reverb and Ceriatone OTS I need a stereo rig with clarity for the effect laden parallel mixed stuff I'm doing
Just seems a waste running something like the Big Sky into a 1930's technology tube amp (but I still love them)
I bought some old JBL Cabaret style columns cheap a few years ago with 4 X 075 alnico bullet tweeters and 8 X K110 alnico speakers
I was toying with the idea of putting them in the Peavey box (and find another), but it's gonna make the boxes a bit heavier heh
Last edited by squatch57 at Mar 3, 2017,
#25
if you are talking Ashdown then mine sounded like it was full of bees after playing guitar through it a few times

edit: gah what is this necroposting lately
Last edited by smb at Mar 3, 2017,
#26
I played a few years with a guitarist who used Fender Hot Rod DeVille 4X10 combo and I had the 2x12" combo. Worked very well for blues and classic rock at the time. I know not all 4x10's are created equal, but I can say that the Fender sounded great. I also used the Fender Bassman '59 4x10 combo, and that sounded great too. The Bassman was Fender's "whoops" that turned into a happy accident among guitarists. A 4x10 can give some great tightness to the bottom end. As far as volume went for either of these, they were plenty loud enough and each rated at 60 and 45 watts (valve).

Of course, the OP has probably already made his decision about the Ashdown by now.
#27
Yeah, I like my old '65 Super Reverb with 4x10's but it's only good for standard guitar sounds
I need something that'll handle the octavers and be more hifi for the stereo delays and reverbs
I'm sure a lot of guys dislike their Strymons etc 'cos they're only plugging into a regular valve amp with all the colouration and limited bandwidth