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#1
Couldn't quite figure out the right forum for this so here goes -

Not a self-promotion.
So my Dallas area blues/psychedelic rock band has played a few shows here and there. Every show we've done has brought 50+ people, which I think is pretty solid for a starter local band.

We did a show in Austin for an ACL after party, we've done several Dallas shows (one of which we brought more people than the main act). We have professionally recorded material out on iTunes and every other notable channel, professionally done artwork, photographs from shoots, a professionally done online presence. All of that, but we just can't get a gig beyond the bar that pretty much anyone can play at. It's tough because there's a point where we need to start getting into more notable venues so as not to get stuck doing the same thing. Our music's good, we put on a good show, but we just can't get anyone to respond. What's the next step? It's extremely frustrating.
#3
Quote by Will Lane
What do you have that is both original and marketable?


I'm not exactly sure what you're asking?
#4
find people from your "scene" to hook you up. talk to people.
mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#6
Quote by iRock7
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking?
Sorry, I wasn't very clear and a bit nihilistic. I've often understood that to keep pushing yourself further you need to know people and get contacts, and do a darn good job of what you do, like what jakesmellspoo said. But my point with the marketing thing is, that blues/psychedelic rock isn't very popular right now at least from what I can see. It's not marketable and it is difficult to keep going but so much higher. So I was asking what, if anything, makes you different and "marketable" compared to the rest of the scene. But just jumping the next step, keep playing and get to know people. Of course my perceptions of this kind of thing are not always the case and could be proven wrong.

What is your bands name/site?
Last edited by Will Lane at Oct 23, 2015,
#8
Quote by Will Lane
Sorry, I wasn't very clear and a bit nihilistic. I've often understood that to keep pushing yourself further you need to know people and get contacts, and do a darn good job of what you do, like what jakesmellspoo said. But my point with the marketing thing is, that blues/psychedelic rock isn't very popular right now at least from what I can see. It's not marketable and it is difficult to keep going but so much higher. So I was asking what, if anything, makes you different and "marketable" compared to the rest of the scene. But just jumping the next step, keep playing and get to know people. Of course my perceptions of this kind of thing are not always the case and could be proven wrong.

What is your bands name/site?


I'd have to respectfully disagree. Psychedelic rock is seeing a huge resurgence these days. That being said, ours isn't the typical psychedelic rock that you think of: droney, loud, sleepy music. Ours is a little more upbeat, lots of pop influences, and there's a lot of lead guitar reminiscent of 60's rock and roll.

I think the frustrating part is I do my research on all of the bands who come through Dallas and I see which one we'd be a good match for. And of those, I contact venues and sometimes the artists directly. Still don't get bites.

Website: monocultureband.com
#10
Quote by Will Lane
Well good for you. I can hear what you mean by the not typical psychedelic rock.


Thanks I guess?
#11
"It's a long way to the top, if you wanna rock and roll"
Keep playing and keep increasing your fan base, no matter where you play. Theres nothing wrong with playing in small unknown places as long as people show up, and the longer you play, the more people will show up. Keep doing that till you can release a good album and then use the sales from that to tour, thereby making more fans.
Theres not a single band in the world that didn't spend its first few years playing lousy gigs with few people showing up, its all about keeping going and earning more fans along the way.
________________________________ ________________________________
______________________________ ______________________________
#12
Quote by slapsymcdougal
TS is going to have to suck some cock.

came here to say this.
A poem.
Quote by yoman297
no girl, movember isnt for you. shave your stache pls

I can out-bore you any day
#13
Quote by iRock7
Couldn't quite figure out the right forum for this so here goes -

Not a self-promotion.
So my Dallas area blues/psychedelic rock band has played a few shows here and there. Every show we've done has brought 50+ people, which I think is pretty solid for a starter local band.

We did a show in Austin for an ACL after party, we've done several Dallas shows (one of which we brought more people than the main act). We have professionally recorded material out on iTunes and every other notable channel, professionally done artwork, photographs from shoots, a professionally done online presence. All of that, but we just can't get a gig beyond the bar that pretty much anyone can play at. It's tough because there's a point where we need to start getting into more notable venues so as not to get stuck doing the same thing. Our music's good, we put on a good show, but we just can't get anyone to respond. What's the next step? It's extremely frustrating.

doesn't matter how good you are at that kind of music I love psychedelic rock and blues but the chances of you making a lot of money are probably better at the blackjack table.

Get a reliable talented chick singer. Do a bunch of dance music from the 70s and 80s something that lawyers and doctors rich yuppie pricks would like to have at their parties.

Most importantly get a manager/booking agent who can book you some corporate gigs.
I guess you could play some music that you like if it's really really good but the focus has to be on the pricks music.

You have to dress nice be sober and intelligent. This leaves me out of the picture I'm nice and sober but I'm kind of stupid. I am also quite old too old to old to be taken seriously. We reach a certain age you are not taken seriously anymore you are walking joke. A walking joke is what you are. Tee-hee hes,....... old.
#14
If I'll verify stonework no forget that if my other advice doesn't work I was in a road band that had to dancing girls there were hired just to wear cheerleader outfits and dance/we played six nights a week. We had a good singer to use like an Italian guy well he was an Italian guy he was not like one you was one and he had a nice deep rich voice is nine name his name was Lenny Longo. He still at it last I read a few years ago and he has to be in his late 70s by now. He wants jokingly told me I'll still be doing this when I'm 82.
#15
I think we've found the missing book of the Bible, the Gospel according to Yope
Come back if you want to
And remember who you are
‘Cause there's nothing here for you my dear
And everything must pass
#16
It's hard man. I've only been paid to play twice yet I've played for tips too many times to count. You just gotta hit up every place you can think of and have a wide variety of music to offer, a singer lol, and you gotta be professional about it. Act like you areworth the money but be humble. You gotta know what to charge. I say $50 min a person in the band, $25 an hour for a few hours. Times 4 people is $200 for two hours. Stuff like that, have a plan and be confident. You can't get gigs without talking to people and taking chances and opportunities.
#17
Quote by iRock7
Our music's good, we put on a good show.


How do you know that though? Every band ever thinks that.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#18
Ok, so let's look at this purely objectively (because we will NEVER get a consensus of whether or not you're music is good enough).

How are you presenting your band? Do you all dress as though you have just stepped out of bed? Have you invested the money at the front end? Are you treating your band as a business?

Let's look at some facts here:
• All venue owners are business owners, and in order for a business to be profitable the books have to balance.
• If your band does not pull enough punters to a show for the books to balance, the business cannot afford to pay you.

• Nearly all originals bands are happy to play for 'exposure'.
• If you are an originals band worth your salt, you should find this concept abhorrent. 'Exposure' does not keep a roof over your head or feed you.

• Originals bands RARELY issue contracts to venues.
• In ANY court of law, a verbal contract is not worth a penny. Why on earth would any honour a contract that is not in writing? ALL bands should issue contracts to venues to ensure that they are paid the wage that they agree with the venue.


Ok - so those are the VERY BASICS of getting paid. But what about making venue owners actually inclined to pay you?

• Have you recorded a PROFESSIONAL QUALITY demo? If a venue is unable to hear your band, a venue will not book your band. You wouldn't hire someone without checking their references.

• Have you PAID A PHOTOGRAPHER for some PROFESSIONAL QUALITY publicity photos of your band? You wouldn't hire someone if they turned up for an interview wearing jeans and a t-shirt, so why would a venue owner book your band if your band can't be bothered to present itself correctly? Sometimes bands have a 'dress code', which can sometimes be overkill, but there's nothing worse than seeing a band full of people dressed like Kurt Cobain and then seeing Rikki Rocket on the drums.

• Do you have an EPK? EPK stands for electronic press kit - it can be anything you like, from something like a flyer (that has been professionally put together and flattened into a .pdf docunment) to something like thisDance Of Death EPK - YouTube. My suggestion in the first instance is the document as you can still print this off and hand it out.

• Are YOU doing enough promotion for your events? Have you flyer'd every lamp-post? Poster'd every wall? Nikki Sixx's rule in the early days of Motley Crue was that for every one poster another band had, the Crue had to have 4. What about social media? It's a necessary evil for ALL bands in this day and age.

• CONTRACTS (again) - Testicular Sound Express will play for 120 minutes for the rate of £200. Should Testicular Sound Express's set be curtailed for reasons which are the fault of the venue, Testicular Sound Express will still be entitled to the full amount agreed within this contract (£200).

• PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT - If you do not have a manager make sure that only ONE band member handles bookings. It becomes farcical when the venue owner is talking to Jeff, then to Bob, and finally Alan - then no-one knows what is going on because no single person is taking proper responsibility. On the same page - did you treat the venue correctly last time? Make sure when you agree a time, you're all there with the gear that YOU AGREED TO BRING IN YOUR CONTRACT.

If you can HONESTLY say that you have done everything that is mentioned herein, then maybe the problem is with the venues and not you. Otherwise, bands need to stop blaming everyone else around them for that fact that they are treated as though they're stupid because, let's face it, most of them are.

Thanks
Last edited by BazBlackett at Oct 24, 2015,
#19
That sounds like something that somebody that went to school for music business only to graduate and find their band unemployed despite following the advice they just spent four years and six figures getting would say.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#20
Quote by slapsymcdougal
TS is going to have to suck some cock.


Let me explain to you the kind of man TS is. He's a man who knows that when you put another man's cock in your mouth, you make a pact. A bond that cannot be broken. He's a man so dedicated that he will get down on his knees and put that cock right in his mouth.
#22
Quote by BazBlackett
Ok, so let's look at this purely objectively (because we will NEVER get a consensus of whether or not you're music is good enough).

How are you presenting your band? Do you all dress as though you have just stepped out of bed? Have you invested the money at the front end? Are you treating your band as a business?

Let's look at some facts here:
• All venue owners are business owners, and in order for a business to be profitable the books have to balance.
• If your band does not pull enough punters to a show for the books to balance, the business cannot afford to pay you.

• Nearly all originals bands are happy to play for 'exposure'.
• If you are an originals band worth your salt, you should find this concept abhorrent. 'Exposure' does not keep a roof over your head or feed you.

• Originals bands RARELY issue contracts to venues.
• In ANY court of law, a verbal contract is not worth a penny. Why on earth would any honour a contract that is not in writing? ALL bands should issue contracts to venues to ensure that they are paid the wage that they agree with the venue.


Ok - so those are the VERY BASICS of getting paid. But what about making venue owners actually inclined to pay you?

• Have you recorded a PROFESSIONAL QUALITY demo? If a venue is unable to hear your band, a venue will not book your band. You wouldn't hire someone without checking their references.

• Have you PAID A PHOTOGRAPHER for some PROFESSIONAL QUALITY publicity photos of your band? You wouldn't hire someone if they turned up for an interview wearing jeans and a t-shirt, so why would a venue owner book your band if your band can't be bothered to present itself correctly? Sometimes bands have a 'dress code', which can sometimes be overkill, but there's nothing worse than seeing a band full of people dressed like Kurt Cobain and then seeing Rikki Rocket on the drums.

• Do you have an EPK? EPK stands for electronic press kit - it can be anything you like, from something like a flyer (that has been professionally put together and flattened into a .pdf docunment) to something like thisDance Of Death EPK - YouTube. My suggestion in the first instance is the document as you can still print this off and hand it out.

• Are YOU doing enough promotion for your events? Have you flyer'd every lamp-post? Poster'd every wall? Nikki Sixx's rule in the early days of Motley Crue was that for every one poster another band had, the Crue had to have 4. What about social media? It's a necessary evil for ALL bands in this day and age.

• CONTRACTS (again) - Testicular Sound Express will play for 120 minutes for the rate of £200. Should Testicular Sound Express's set be curtailed for reasons which are the fault of the venue, Testicular Sound Express will still be entitled to the full amount agreed within this contract (£200).

• PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT - If you do not have a manager make sure that only ONE band member handles bookings. It becomes farcical when the venue owner is talking to Jeff, then to Bob, and finally Alan - then no-one knows what is going on because no single person is taking proper responsibility. On the same page - did you treat the venue correctly last time? Make sure when you agree a time, you're all there with the gear that YOU AGREED TO BRING IN YOUR CONTRACT.

If you can HONESTLY say that you have done everything that is mentioned herein, then maybe the problem is with the venues and not you. Otherwise, bands need to stop blaming everyone else around them for that fact that they are treated as though they're stupid because, let's face it, most of them are.

Thanks


Band presentation: we have stage wardrobes that fits our sound. We go for vintage attire, and funnily enough, we're almost always the only band that doesn't just show up in jeans and a t-shirt. Here's an example from our last show:




We ALWAYS bring a crowd and our crowd ALWAYS buys a lot of drinks at the bar. The way we've done it is we're paid based on how many people we bring minus a split with the venue and minus pay for the sound man. We've always been paid $200+ each time. I remember one time in particular when we brought more people than the headliner.

We've never had to play for exposure. In fact, when we played in Austin, a city away from home, we brought more people than one or two of the bands actually from there.

ALL of our music is professionally recorded with pretty good production quailty. We even have accompanying music videos with our singles.

Photography: YES. My drummer's best friend is an insane photographer and has done shoots with us, and we have a guy we know who does pics for our shows. All pro, all top quality. You'll hardly fine blurry cell phone photos on anything attached with our name unless it's intentionally so.

EPK: Yes, we have one on Sonicbids, but I'm not sure if venues care to look through there, so I never link to it. Maybe I should start doing that?

Contracts: We've never had to do a contract because we've never played at a venue where a contract was necessary. It was always pay based on how many people you brought.

Professional conduct: I'm always the main point of contact and the other band members don't ever step in and leave it to me. I'm about ready to hand it off to a dedicated manager.

Promotion: Drummer is an art whiz kid and does all our posters for us. We do Facebook paid ads (proven to work because ppl told us in person that they saw the ad and came out), and we have a "street team" so to speak of our closest friends who we use to rally up their social circles.

We're always on time, we always play our set length, and we always leave other bands plenty of time to set up.

So yes, we've done pretty much everything you've said. The most frustrating part is we played a show with this band two weeks ago who brought practically nobody yet they managed to play a bigger venue as an opener a few weeks before. It makes no sense whatsoever.

A lot of people would argue our music isn't the most popular thing out there. If anything, it's definitely got pop undertones, so maybe I should rebrand "psychedelic blues rock" as just "blues rock" when describing it to a venue. I'm gonna try that out and see how it works.

I'm coming to the realization that venues just look at your Facebook page and see how many likes you have, and they use that as a barometer of whether or not you're legit. It's so frustrating, and many would say to buy fake followers, but that could backfire in many ways that I don't really want to have to delve into.
Last edited by iRock7 at Oct 24, 2015,
#23
The problem is that you are a bunch of old, dirty looking guys. To me, that just screams "all our fans will bring acid and get wrecked." Nobody wants that. I also keep hearing "we bring in more than the headliner" but do the headliners draw? One time we drew about 10 people to a gig and the headliners drew two. But we still drew more.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
Last edited by theogonia777 at Oct 24, 2015,
#24
Quote by theogonia777
The problem is that you are a bunch of old, dirty looking guys. I also keep hearing "we bring in more than the headliner" but do the headliners draw? One time we drew about 10 people to a gig and the headliners drew two. But we still drew more.


old? I'm 23, my drummer is 22, and our bass player is the older one (28). But that's hardly an issue.
Last edited by iRock7 at Oct 24, 2015,
#25
Even worse. That means your fans are young kids that will definitely be bringing drugs.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#26
Quote by theogonia777
Even worse. That means your fans are young kids that will definitely be bringing drugs.


I think you're just pulling my leg now
#29
I wouldn't hire you but that's just me. But look... every band always says, "we sound great and we're doing everything right." Clearly if you can't get gigs, one of those isn't true.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#30
Quote by theogonia777
I wouldn't hire you but that's just me. But look... every band always says, "we sound great and we're doing everything right." Clearly if you can't get gigs, one of those isn't true.


Listen for yourself, man. We are good.
Last edited by iRock7 at Oct 24, 2015,
#32
Eww. I don't understand why anyone would go to hear that. Very boring. Not good at all. Evetything just screams "we were born in the wrong decade!" Also a Tumblr page isn't a real website.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
Last edited by theogonia777 at Oct 24, 2015,
#33
Quote by theogonia777
Eww. I don't understand why anyone would go to hear that. Very boring. Not good at all. Evetything just screams "we were born in the wrong decade!" Also a Tumblr page isn't a real website.


Eh a tumblr page probably isn't a real website, but then again most bands at our level don't even have a website

As for the wrong decade thing, I'm perfectly happy with 2015. We just like vintage tunes.
#34
Quote by iRock7
I think you're just pulling my leg now
You did post this thread in The Pit... you would get less but probably more serious replies in Bandleading... It's just not more than a pub gig band it seems to me. :/
Quote by yope
Get a reliable talented chick singer. Do a bunch of dance music from the 70s and 80s something that lawyers and doctors rich yuppie pricks would like to have at their parties.
Pretty much. Keep your psychedelic influences but add more heavy pop influences. Essentially make yourself like the group Chvrches. Although that was good for them it's old hat by now...
Last edited by Will Lane at Oct 24, 2015,
#35
Quote by Will Lane
You did post this thread in The Pit... you would get less but probably more serious replies in Bandleading...


Why do you think these responses are not serious?
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#36
Quote by theogonia777
Why do you think these responses are not serious?

Quote by slapsymcdougal
TS is going to have to suck some cock.
Quote by wafflesyrup
Let me explain to you the kind of man TS is. He's a man who knows that when you put another man's cock in your mouth, you make a pact. A bond that cannot be broken. He's a man so dedicated that he will get down on his knees and put that cock right in his mouth.
Quote by Pastafarian96
came here to say this.
Quote by theogonia777
Even worse. That means your fans are young kids that will definitely be bringing drugs.
Quote by Deliriumbassist
And the bass player is probably their dealer. You can tell because he has a big collar
Quote by Deliriumbassist
If you want to make money, don't smoke your own supply. He's definitely a dealer. I would stage an intervention.
#37
That sounds like legitimate advice. From the perspective of a venue owner, those guys look like regular Johnny Acidseeds. Generally fans tend to be similar and likeminded to the band members. Therefore like Johnny, they are also potheads.

And sucking dick can get you very far.

Besides. Your last gig was at church and you dropped a keyboard off of the roof of your truck. What do you know?
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
Last edited by theogonia777 at Oct 24, 2015,
#38
Take it all with a grain of salt if you want, TS. I'm not a successful musician by means of gigs and finances. But just keep trying. Introduce something new. Have your blues/psychedelic influences but bring something original to the scene. Something to set you apart and make bigger venues want you.
Quote by theogonia777
Besides. Your last gig was at church and you dropped a keyboard off of the roof of your truck. What do you know?
Last edited by Will Lane at Oct 24, 2015,
#40
Quote by iRock7
Listen for yourself, man. We are good.

Not going to listen, but 'good' and 'self-indulgent wankery' often go hand in hand.
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