Page 1 of 2
#1
Unfortunately, I cannot post photos at this time because file dialogs have not been working on my PC.

Cabes I have tried (and have owned, some stuffed up like the Klotz, mostly due to overuse):

Lyric by Evidence Audio
George L
Mogami Platinum
Van Den Hul by Lava
Klotz Titanium
Planet Waves Circuit Breaker
Canare GS-6


Van Den Hul was better than the Mogami Platinum, but only just. It was slightly clearer and of a better build quality. Both the Mogami and Van Den Hul beat the Planet Waves and George L, and the Klotz was better than all of them. Second best was the Lyric. Third was the Van Den Hul.

Why?

The Mogami Platinum is really balanced and bright, it is 'punchy' in its tonality. But it just felt lacking, and it was a little too 'bright and punchy' for my liking. It was the most quiet cable in my comparison. Certainly a unique and great sound.

The Van Den Hul was better quality than the Mogami Platinum, and you didn't really have to play through it to tell. The connectors are metallic and better soldered. The rubber even felt better. This cables highs and lows were better than the Mogami, but it had a lot of depth and bass on the low end. It still sounded better to my ears however.

George L's: Man. Annoying cables. I bought one pre-built, but the connectors kept faulting out. I had rebuild the cable quite a lot of times. These cables only come with warranties on the plugs, not the whole cable - meaning that each time it faults out you have to cut the cable and screw on the plugs. Talk about irritating. They also weren't as durable as the Mogami Platinum and the Van Den Hul.

Planet Waves Circuit Breaker:

Solid and durable, but lacking in tone in comparison to the other cables. The circuit breaker is useful though when you want to remove the plug from your guitar, and I can see it being useful when switching guitars.

Lyric by Evidence Audio:

One of the best cables I have ever heard. The only flaw was that it sounded somewhat less refined, and dull in comparison to the Klotz - you would have to play both to understand. The highs and lows just weren't quite as clear as the Klotz. Undecided between whether or not the Klotz is better, or whether this is better.

Klotz Titanium:

Survived being stood on, having a cymbal fall on it, and being rained on from inside a guitar gig bag. Great tone.

Canare GS-6:

One word: Dark. Didn't like the tone. It was too dark.

For those curious as to how much I spent on the cables altogether, I would say it was around $900.

EDIT: Actually, listening back on a few recording I did through a clean amp, I am undecided between whether I prefer the Lyric or the Klotz. Both are phenomenal and very different, I reckon it would depend on the application.
Last edited by Gibson_LesPaul_ at Oct 24, 2015,
#3
Hi Gibson Les Paul!

The emotions and situations you experience with guitar cables are not uncommon.

Why?

1. The sound of a guitar cable with passive pickups is the result of length x capacitance per unit length. Few cable sellers let guitarists know what they are buying...

2. The longevity and handling qualities will be down to manufacture methodology etc. Much money spent on advertising, little thought to construction method.

Perhaps this will help ease your pain a little...

http://www.shootoutguitarcables.com/guitar-cables-explained/introduction.html

A little physics and common sense I feel goes a long way.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Marc.
#5
Quote by Gibson_LesPaul_

For those curious as to how much I spent on the cables altogether, I would say it was around $900.


All I have to say is "why?"

and.... this belongs on TGP
Guitars:
PRS Custom 24
Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute
85' MIJ Strat
97' Snakepit Les Paul
LP Traditional 1960 Zebra
MIJ Tele
MIA Strat

Amps:
Silver Jubilee 2525
Peavey Ultra 112
Jet City JCA50H
66' Bassman
Pink Paisley Princeton RV
74' Vibro Champ
#6
My cables are (currently) all hand-made of Canare cable (not sure which specific cable type at the moment) and Neutrik ends. Absolutely NOT "dark."
Last edited by dspellman at Oct 24, 2015,
#8
Quote by mmolteratx
lol


My thoughts as well.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#10
No placebo. The capacitance of the cable has a dramatic effect on the degree of attenuation of high frequencies, and different brands of cable have very different capacitance. The cheapest brands tend to be very high, causing a muddy effect. There is a very good reason that pedal steel players use the thin George L cables - they are among the lowest capacitance cables you can get, preserving the highs. Longer runs exaggerate the high frequency attenuation.
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
Last edited by Vulcan at Oct 25, 2015,
#11
In that case! I'm going to try it
I actually figured the quality only improved the clarity of the signal.
#12
Even my wife could hear the difference the first time I plugged in with an Evidence Audio Lyric HG. It's far too stiff for daily use - I use other EA cables that are more flexible, but it sounds very good. If you want an eye-opener, and you have a George L pedalboard kit, try using the cable provided as a guitar cable before you cut it up. A/B it along with something cheap (the braided cloth Fender I have measures the highest capacitance of all my cables), and be prepared for a surprise.
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
#13
I've had this argument with a recording engineer once. He refused to record me unless I used all of his super expensive high quality, "far superior" leads. Not that I really cared, or thought it was a big deal, it just bugged me how he tried to make me feel like an idiot for using any kinda cheaper lead, because apparently they sounded like complete shit.

I know there's a lot of factors that affect the results of a recording, but I thought it was pretty funny that when switched studios and my guitar were tones being recorded using all my cheap ass yorkville leads at the 2nd studio, my tone sounded a lot clearer. I'm not arguing that in doing an A/B recorded test that you wouldn't notice a very slight difference, I just argue that in a band/live/maybe even at home setting most people would never be able to tell the difference; unless you go to an extreme where you're using say a 100ft super cheap lead.
Guitars:
PRS Custom 24
Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute
85' MIJ Strat
97' Snakepit Les Paul
LP Traditional 1960 Zebra
MIJ Tele
MIA Strat

Amps:
Silver Jubilee 2525
Peavey Ultra 112
Jet City JCA50H
66' Bassman
Pink Paisley Princeton RV
74' Vibro Champ
#14
Quote by jpnyc

A lot of this going on in this thread.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
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Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
#15
Darned if I can find a post I made on another forum regarding an actual test I did on various cables in my possession (capacitance vs listening impression), but as I recall, the Yorkville cables tested rather well in terms of capacitance being very close to that of Mogami. Definitely a good value.
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
#16
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
A lot of this going on in this thread.

Obviously you've either never taken the time to find out for yourself, or your hearing is quite damaged. I was very skeptical for years until I tried an EA Lyric for the first time. Anyone who dismisses the effect of good cabling as mere cork-sniffery needs to try sometime with open ears.
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
#17
Quote by Vulcan
Obviously you've either never taken the time to find out for yourself, or your hearing is quite damaged. I was very skeptical for years until I tried an EA Lyric for the first time. Anyone who dismisses the effect of good cabling as mere cork-sniffery needs to try sometime with open ears.

Quote by Gibson_LesPaul_
For those curious as to how much I spent on the cables altogether, I would say it was around $900.


Everyone else here can think of better things to do with that kind of money.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#18
$900 is over the top to make a cable decision. I'm a proponent of good value as well as quality. The Yorkville cables mentioned above (made in the Traynor factory, btw) represent very good value, and I have many of them in use in my house.

You don't need to spend $$$$ to find a good cable, you only need to be aware that there are profound, audible differences between them. Those differences are mostly audible in the higher frequencies, and are related to the total capacitance of the cable.
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
Last edited by Vulcan at Oct 25, 2015,
#19
Well, I uses to work in a studio and we cut our own cables, Mogami with Neutrik connectors, and honestly this crazy cable connoisseur douchebaggery is pretty much just that. If you're crazy enough to spend that kind of cash I wonder what the rest of your signal chain looks like.
#20
Quote by diabolical
Well, I uses to work in a studio and we cut our own cables, Mogami with Neutrik connectors, and honestly this crazy cable connoisseur douchebaggery is pretty much just that. If you're crazy enough to spend that kind of cash I wonder what the rest of your signal chain looks like.

So, in other words, your studio used some of the more expensive cables on the market...

Whether you realize it or not, there is a reason most studios use Mogami, and they aren't cheap, although buying in bulk and assembling them is certainly cheaper and allows runs to be optimized for length (avoiding waste and clutter).
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
Last edited by Vulcan at Oct 25, 2015,
#21
Quote by Vulcan
$900 is over the top to make a cable decision. I'm a proponent of good value as well as quality. The Yorkville cables mentioned above (made in the Traynor factory, btw) represent very good value, and I have many of them in use in my house.

You don't need to spend $$$$ to find a good cable, you only need to be aware that there are profound, audible differences between them. Those differences are mostly audible in the higher frequencies, and are related to the total capacitance of the cable.
The difference in any aspect other than longevity is not worth the money to me.

Because I'm not a pompous corksniffer.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#22
Quote by slapsymcdougal
The difference in any aspect other than longevity is not worth the money to me.

Because I'm not a pompous corksniffer.

I hope you're not responding directly to the post you quoted. If you are, you didn't really understand what I wrote. I'm neither pompous, nor a corksniffer, and I don't think anyone else who has posted in this thread is, either. Reverse snobbery does not require intelligent thought. You can base your cable buying decision on anything you want, but this thread has been about the audible differences between cables and the reasons for those differences. There are definite audible differences, in some cases quite dramatic, and just because you have not taken the time to actually listen critically, you assume that others are hearing things that aren't there. They are not.

Price is not an audible difference.


Btw, the Yorkville cables are among the cheapest on the market, and last as long as any cable. I have never had one fail.
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
#23
Quote by Vulcan
I hope you're not responding directly to the post you quoted. If you are, you didn't really understand what I wrote. I'm neither pompous, nor a corksniffer, and I don't think anyone else who has posted in this thread is, either. Reverse snobbery does not require intelligent thought. You can base your cable buying decision on anything you want, but this thread has been about the audible differences between cables and the reasons for those differences. There are definite audible differences, in some cases quite dramatic, and just because you have not taken the time to actually listen critically, you assume that others are hearing things that aren't there. They are not.

Price is not an audible difference.


Btw, the Yorkville cables are among the cheapest on the market, and last as long as any cable. I have never had one fail.

And yet your posts fairly scream otherwise.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#25
Quote by slapsymcdougal
The difference in any aspect other than longevity is not worth the money to me.

Because I'm not a pompous corksniffer.

Should you, or any of the other skeptics, be willing to open your mind a bit and do some reading;

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/4-conductor-hook-up-cable-capacitance-effects-on-pickup-resonant-frequency.1162900/
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
#26
Quote by Vulcan
Should you, or any of the other skeptics, be willing to open your mind a bit and do some reading;

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/4-conductor-hook-up-cable-capacitance-effects-on-pickup-resonant-frequency.1162900/

I don't need to. My setup sounds fine to me(I've had my hearing checked by a hospital audiologist, within the past 5 years, and it's well within normal tolerances for my age), cheap cables and all.

There may be measurable differences. But it's likely all I would do if I changed cables to a brand I'd regard as overpriced or more work that it's worth(buying in bulk and soldering myself would likely be cost prohibitive as well, as I'd have like 7 total, patch and effects loop included) is dial things in differently.

So again, it's a non-issue.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#27
Quote by slapsymcdougal
But it's likely all I would do if I changed cables ... is dial things in differently.

So again, it's a non-issue.

Generally, what you say is true. All that is required when changing between cables is dialing the amp or guitar slightly differently, but the effects sometimes are such that you still hear the effect, and blame other components. People often talk about sounds like 'a blanket thrown over the amp', and that is exactly the effect that a cable at the extreme upper end of the capacitance range of the typically available cables has.

Good cables do not need to be expensive, and expensive cables are not necessarily good. It is simply an effect to be aware of, and understanding what you are hearing, and why, is equally important, because it gives you an easy way of changing something quite cheaply and easily.
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
#28
Quote by jpnyc


Quote by red.guitar
All I have to say is "why?"

and.... this belongs on TGP

My very first thought then I opened this thread.

The biggest difference in different cables is quality in construction.
Sure there is a capacitance difference, but if you don't buy the absolutely cheapest cables you can find at "Wally's Cable And Sausage Mart" you should be fine.

I build my own cables with Mogami W2524 cable.
Usually Neutrik connectors.
Or in some cases, I have used whatever I found at Radio Shack before.

Build quality and sound wise, they are probably on par or better than what you will find at GC or other local music store.
Plus they have a lifetime guarantee and and cost less than the good stuff at any of those other places.

The only maintenance needed, regardless of who makes the cable is to keep the ends clean.
#29
@Vulcan - the cables we used to assemble came up to be the cost of GC generics, so don't see why you're saying they're expensive, we DIY so that saved us cash but nowhere near the buttsniffing craziness of some of the manufacturer cables.

I toured with Mars Music (remember that store?) generics for a long time and kept the receipt, when a cable got faulty they replaced it, no questions asked. I do the same now with Dimarzio at GC. If it is good enough for Steve Vai, it is good enough for me

I switched from Fatsoflex to GeorgeL for recording guitar direct after discovering that it didn't adversely affect my tone and the cable is less bulky so it doesn't get in the way as much.

I don't know what quality we can expect after all, at the end of the day we hook up into faulty electrical wiring (most rehearsal places and clubs), some $50 stompboxes with 9v batteries and we're talking $900 and up cables????

So OP, what is the rest of your chain?
Last edited by diabolical at Oct 26, 2015,
#30
Why the hell didnt you record your entire experiment review and post it here to go with your descriptions? Or did you, and I scrolled past it?

Either way, i am leaning more towards the corksniffer side. I cant imagine any regular length cable of decent made cable making your tone "dark". It might not be quite as bright (probably inaudibly so) as some cable with really low capacitance, but theres no way it would be comparable to turning your treble or presence down even just a notch (unless the cable was damaged or something).

Here is why I consider this corksniffing. Its not because I am doubting that you might hear a difference between them; but the difference is so minute that it is compensated with a teensy flick of the presence knob, or having your microphone 1/32 of an inch closer to the center cone when you record.

Lets just get our guitar signal to the amp for God's sakes; idc how you do it lol
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Last edited by Watterboy at Oct 26, 2015,
#31
Quote by Watterboy
I cant imagine any regular length cable of decent made cable making your tone "dark". It might not be quite as bright (probably inaudibly so) as some cable with really low capacitance, but theres no way it would be comparable to turning your treble or presence down even just a notch (unless the cable was damaged or something).

Here is why I consider this corksniffing. Its not because I am doubting that you might hear a difference between them; but the difference is so minute that it is compensated with a teensy flick of the presence knob, or having your microphone 1/32 of an inch closer to the center cone when you record.

The reason I started wondering about it myself is that I had read discussions, and was skeptical myself. I was playing jazz through a Polytone, and had a heck of a time getting some note definition, particularly in chords. I wasn't happy about my sound, and changed pickup, turned the bright control on the amp on, and still wasn't entirely satisfied. When I got some rack gear, I made up some interconnects using George L cables, and just for fun, I made up a guitar cable with it (the thin stuff) because I had bought a roll of the cable and lots of straight ends.

The result was that my jazz tone using the George L was such that I could set my amp to normal settings and ended up being totally surprised by the note definition. I had been using a Fender vintage look cloth covered cable before that. I play pedal steel, and I can assure you that the difference between the Fender cable and the George L is quite noticeable - to anyone, and I can't quite clear the sound up if I persist in using the Fender cable. Capacitance tests show that the Fender cable has very high cpacitance and the George L is very low by comparison. Mogami is slightly higher than George L, and I would be happy to use it exclusively if I were looking to redo my entire setup (I'm not). I use the EA cables because I got them used, and cheap. They also measure out on the low end for capacitance.

You would not likely notice any difference between George L or EA and Mogami. They are all relatively low capacitance cables (Mogami slightly higher). If you use one that is very high, like the Fender I have, then switch to Mogami, the difference is small, but audible. A slight tweak of the amp will definitely take care of that difference. But if you switch from EA or George L to my Fender, the difference is startling, and I found on my jazz guitar that i could not quite EQ out the difference. It is a real effect, influenced by the capacitance per unit length of the cable, and the overall length of the cable. 10' runs don't make a whole heck of a lot of difference, but 15' and 20' definitely do.

FWIW, I do not have "golden ears", and consider some of the prices charged for cables to be absolutely stupid. That being said, I would suggest that next time any of the doubters have a chance to experiment under controlled conditions, that you do so with an open mind. Don't pay huge $$ for a cable, because I don't advocate that. I do advocate knowledge. Use what you're happy with in the end.
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
Last edited by Vulcan at Oct 26, 2015,
#32
bullshit. its just like a car feeling faster after you wash it.
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nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


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youre just being a jerk man.



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#33
I guess I'll add a comment. I buy fairly good but not expensive guitar cables. I do not buy the top of the line cables and will settle for their mid priced versions. I won't buy no-name cables just because they are on sale and I am not particularly rough on my cables. Since I play gigs almost weekly all I ask is that they are reliable and don't cut out or cause noise. I never thought of doing a "listening" test to see if one actually sounds better than another but maybe there is a slight difference. If I noticed it I would just tweak the EQ on my amp and not think much about it except chalk it up to room acoustics. I do have two cables that I reserve for my guitar. One is a 10 foot from my guitar to my pedals and one is a 20 foot from the pedals to the amp. The two cables I have for this purpose I have been using both for about 5 years and they have held up well. I ain't fixing it if it isn't broken.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
#34
@Vulcan or TS:

I wasnt trying to be insulting or condesending with my post. In the end, its all my opinion. You guys may actually be hearing something that Im not. But I would really like it / appreciate it if you did a HQ recording, close micing your cab on clean with no effects/reverb ect totally dry and no processing just swapping through your cables. Some people may hear it, some wont (I usually dont), but it is still worth documenting in that fashion I'd say
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#35
Quote by trashedlostfdup
bullshit. its just like a car feeling faster after you wash it.


Wait, what?
Of COURSE it's faster.


Innit?
#36
Quote by dspellman
Wait, what?
Of COURSE it's faster.


Innit?


Of course, the reduction in surface friction alone should make that obvious!

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#38
on my cables i can hear a small difference. i have a couple of the "steve vai" cables (10' and 18') that carvin used to sell and to me they seem brighter and clearer. they currently are my favorites but they don't seem to be made anymore. they also like to curl up and try to topple me on stage.

on the other hand, my ancient pro-co cable (18') sounds dull and lifeless which is why i don't use it anymore. i have an $80 monster that is too short to be useful (3"-used to use it to attach the cab to the head on my 1/2 stack) and a couple of hosa's on my pb.

i wish i knew more about selecting the right cables for the sound that i like. is there some sort of test i could do with a multimeter? some measurement to check? i'm not very good with electrical stuff i'm afraid but if i knew what i was to measure and where to poke the probes i think i can do that.
Last edited by ad_works at Oct 27, 2015,
#39
Quote by MaggaraMarine

An irrelevant link to this discussion (and I agree with it, btw). We're not talking about speaker cables, we're talking about shielded, coaxial guitar cables, and the effect of the change in their capacitance on the mV signal that the pickups produce. If some of you people don't have the education to participate other than to scream "Bullshit!", please keep your comments to yourself, because you're simply wrong. Educate yourselves. Google is your friend. If your tone resembles the solo of "Sympathy For the Devil", you probably would never notice anything, so carry on.

Grab 2 cables, one identified as high capacitance, and one very low. Select a flat eq, and your neck pickup. Try the different cords without changing anything. If you can't clearly hear the attenuation of the highs with the high capacitance cable, you have no business bitching about any other aspect of "tone", from your pickup choice to your amp choice. It is a clearly audible effect.
PRS SC245
Various Strats
Polytone Mini Brute
Koch Studiotone XL
Quilter OD200, 101 Reverb and Mini
1958 National lap steel
Eastman El Rey 1
#40
Quote by Vulcan
An irrelevant link to this discussion (and I agree with it, btw). We're not talking about speaker cables, we're talking about shielded, coaxial guitar cables, and the effect of the change in their capacitance on the mV signal that the pickups produce. If some of you people don't have the education to participate other than to scream "Bullshit!", please keep your comments to yourself, because you're simply wrong. Educate yourselves. Google is your friend. If your tone resembles the solo of "Sympathy For the Devil", you probably would never notice anything, so carry on.

Grab 2 cables, one identified as high capacitance, and one very low. Select a flat eq, and your neck pickup. Try the different cords without changing anything. If you can't clearly hear the attenuation of the highs with the high capacitance cable, you have no business bitching about any other aspect of "tone", from your pickup choice to your amp choice. It is a clearly audible effect.


I'm reasonably sure that most of the folks here are well aware of the effect of capacitance on frequencies.

I'm also reasonably sure that for any cable above bargain basement, and any run not grossly excessive in length, that it's immaterial.

I'm absolutely certain that once you get above the "crap" threshold, that price and capacitance don't correlate.

Which means, once again, that it's immaterial.

In short, as noted elsewhere, we're arguing the wind resistance of a washed v. an unwashed car. Sure, it might have some extremely marginal and easily compensated for effect, but it's not enough to worry about unless you just like to argue.

Have a nice day.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Oct 27, 2015,
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