#1
I played a 12 string fender the other day and was surprised how good it was for the price. What are some good 12 strings in this price range?
#2
Well, there's this Yamaha: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/yamaha-fg720s-12-string-acoustic-guitar It's a bit over budget perhaps.

And this Epiphone: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/epiphone-dr-212-12-string-acoustic-guitar A bit under budget. "Guitar Player Magazine" gave the Epiphone DR-212 a good review. Whether that's biased or fair, I know not.


I'm guessing this is the Fender to which you're referring: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/fender-cd100-12-string-acoustic-guitar?rNtt=fender%2012%20string&index=3


Both the Epi and the Fender are laminated tops, while the Yamaha is solid sitka. The solid top of the Yamaha might sound a bit better. While a semi-educated guess thinks the laminated top models might be a bit more rugged. Not sure though.


Still in all, I wouldn't tune any of them higher than D-d standard..
#4
Quote by Garthman

I own a D10S12. It desperately needs a neck reset as the action is utterly ridiculous and the intonation is all over the place. There were a load of high frets and there was even a knot in the fretboard.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#5
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
I own a D10S12. It desperately needs a neck reset as the action is utterly ridiculous and the intonation is all over the place. There were a load of high frets and there was even a knot in the fretboard.


Really? Why did you buy it?

I've played a few over the past year or so and they were fine. Indeed, very playable and sounded good.
#6
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
I own a D10S12. It desperately needs a neck reset as the action is utterly ridiculous and the intonation is all over the place. There were a load of high frets and there was even a knot in the fretboard.
Washburn made a lot of left handed 12 strings maybe 20 years ago. So, I looked at them. My local music store had 3 or 4 of them. I didn't have a ruler with me, but I would swear the actions were all 3/8" off the board. They were so high it was frightening.

In any event, the experience left me with emotional scars, and I've never gone near any Washburn since.

I can't comment to their present state of build quality, so this post is intended for anecdotal purposes only.

FWIW, Epiphone's builds were almost as bad around the same time frame. They're fine today....
#7
12's are even more "individual" than 6's. Getting a new one is safer than used - you don't know if previous owners tuned them too high and weakened the bracing. As long as the neck math is good and the action is low and you like how it sounds............
#8
Depending on how cheap you want to go, I have a Rouge D-90 I got from MF it was part of the Guitar/mandolin pack for $90. It is a pretty solid acoustic especially for the price and the 12 strings are a bit over $100.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#9
Quote by Garthman
Really? Why did you buy it?

I've played a few over the past year or so and they were fine. Indeed, very playable and sounded good.

I didn't buy it. I inherited it from my dad. He was so used to playing guitars with awful playability that he just thought that having high action like that was normal.

Not to mention that it didn't help that he's tuned the thing to standard E for years on end.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Nov 2, 2015,
#10
I don't think I would buy a $250 twelve string acoustic. It's like buying a $10 hooker. You know something is terribly wrong with this picture but haven't figured out what it is yet.

"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Nov 2, 2015,
#11
Seconding Cajundaddy. Came here to say it. Yeah, it might play slightly below average new, but within a few years it'll be long dead.

The guitar, that is. Not the hooker.
they're coming to take me away
ha-haaa
#12
Quote by Banjocal
Seconding Cajundaddy. Came here to say it. Yeah, it might play slightly below average new, but within a few years it'll be long dead.

The guitar, that is. Not the hooker.


Yup.

She won't last the night.
Guitars
Schecter Hellraiser C-1FR, C-1 Classic, Hellraiser Hybrid Solo-II, Special Edition E-1FR-S
Orange Rockerverb 50 212
Basses
Yamaha RBX374 and Washburn MB-6
#14
I'd up the budget just a bit and get a Takamine. I've seen their 12's on sale in the $300-350 range, and they are pretty solid instruments. Nothing spectacular, but not likely to turn into kindling either.

A quick Google search turned this up.

http://www.proaudiostar.com/takamine-gj72ce-12-string-acoustic-guitar-natural.html
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#15
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
I didn't buy it. I inherited it from my dad. He was so used to playing guitars with awful playability that he just thought that having high action like that was normal.

Not to mention that it didn't help that he's tuned the thing to standard E for years on end.


Well, there you go. It's not the Washburn's fault then. Most 12ers give up the ghost when treated harshly.

As I said earlier, the few I've played have been nice guitars.
#16
Quote by Garthman
Well, there you go. It's not the Washburn's fault then.

The guitar has always had stupidly high action and has always needed a neck reset, even when my dad bought it. It's always needed the 4th and 6th fret levelling because they buzz even with such a high action. The nut action always has been unacceptably high (not a big deal to fix though). There always has been a knot in the fretboard at around the 4th fret that's obviously undermined its seating-you can see the tang of the fretwire where the knot and the fret converge. It may well be the cause for why the fret is high in the first place.

But with that said, you're right; it's actually my dad's fault for buying a guitar that sucks. Shame on him.

I'm not saying that all Washburns suck, my sister's Washburn despite being stupidly designed (a flamed maple veneer top on otherwise solid spruce -why?? There's even the option to get the same guitar with a solid spruce top sans the veneer and it actually costs slightly less. Guess we can say that it's my sister's fault for buying that too. ), it isn't bad for the money. The perfelling that helps glue the top and back to the sides is sloppily glued, it sounds uninspiring and the neck is far too narrow, (though this is personal preference) but the guitar's action and intonation are solid. The fret ends are decently well done and the hardware is okay.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Nov 11, 2015,
#17
Is this just some huge bit of general knowledge that I don't posess?
Why do you not tune "affordable" 12-string guitars to E standard?
Because string tension make neck go uuuuugh?
#18
Quote by Silky90
Is this just some huge bit of general knowledge that I don't posess?
Why do you not tune "affordable" 12-string guitars to E standard?
Because string tension make neck go uuuuugh?


That's exactly it. With another 6 strings, even though they're all much lighter than the main 6, that's a whole shitload of extra tension. Decades ago, it wasn't even just a matter of the neck getting out of whack over time. Old 12s were damn near impossible to play in standard tuning because of the tension/action, even well made ones, being played by professionals. Most people would tune them down significantly, then throw on a capo at whatever fret to get their open position chords in standard tuning. Many modern 12s have at least figured out how to keep action low enough that they're playable in standard tuning, but most cheaper ones still can't hold up to that tension over years without the necks bending.
Guitars
Schecter Hellraiser C-1FR, C-1 Classic, Hellraiser Hybrid Solo-II, Special Edition E-1FR-S
Orange Rockerverb 50 212
Basses
Yamaha RBX374 and Washburn MB-6
#19
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
The guitar has always had stupidly high action and has always needed a neck reset, even when my dad bought it. It's always needed the 4th and 6th fret levelling because they buzz even with such a high action. The nut action always has been unacceptably high (not a big deal to fix though). There always has been a knot in the fretboard at around the 4th fret that's obviously undermined its seating-you can see the tang of the fretwire where the knot and the fret converge. It may well be the cause for why the fret is high in the first place.

But with that said, you're right; it's actually my dad's fault for buying a guitar that sucks. Shame on him.

I'm not saying that all Washburns suck, my sister's Washburn despite being stupidly designed (a flamed maple veneer top on otherwise solid spruce -why?? There's even the option to get the same guitar with a solid spruce top sans the veneer and it actually costs slightly less. Guess we can say that it's my sister's fault for buying that too. ), it isn't bad for the money. The perfelling that helps glue the top and back to the sides is sloppily glued, it sounds uninspiring and the neck is far too narrow, (though this is personal preference) but the guitar's action and intonation are solid. The fret ends are decently well done and the hardware is okay.


Well, those Washburn you are talking about are probably the old Western made ones. Now that they are made in China they are much better.
#20
Quote by Garthman
Well, those Washburn you are talking about are probably the old Western made ones. Now that they are made in China they are much better.

They were both Chinese made.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#21
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
They were both Chinese made.


Right. Probably the "Chairman Mao" series then? Could be collectable!
#22
Quote by Cajundaddy
I don't think I would buy a $250 twelve string acoustic. It's like buying a $10 hooker. You know something is terribly wrong with this picture but haven't figured out what it is yet.

Well,all kidding aside, the Epiphone DR-212 gets good reviews and is, "priced to move" @ $199.95, (or thereabouts). Assuming you know how to pick a "good one", don't want to plug in, and are comfortable with an all laminate guitar, it should be decent enough to "indoctrinate" you, into the 12 string school of thought cult.

But no, it won't sound like a $4000.00 Taylor, or a vintage maple Guild jumbo. Nothing's perfect, or so they say..

I have some 10 dollar hookers on my street. I could introduce you if you like...
#23
Quote by Captaincranky
Well,all kidding aside, the Epiphone DR-212 gets good reviews and is, "priced to move" @ $199.95, (or thereabouts).

I have some 10 dollar hookers on my street. I could introduce you if you like...


What they have in common is the potential for ongoing problems that are hard to fix.
#24
Quote by Tony Done
What they have in common is the potential for ongoing problems that are hard to fix.
The hookers, the guitars, or both?

I had a Crapiphone 12 string. It was a thing of beauty, nice fit and finish, a sunburst paint job to die for.

But, the neck angle was too high. Buying a guitar with the neck on too high was my own stupidity. (In my own defense, I had only the one to "choose from"). OTOH, it actually sounded pretty good. (I swear it sounded better than the Crafter I bought to replace it.

OK, the guitar "lived" for 17 years. I tuned it D-d and it didn't self destruct or develop other problems. So, you can't actually say a $250.00 12 string will definitely give you problems down the road, provided of course, you care for it correctly.

I also had an Ovation "Matrix" 12 string. It developed cracks in the top, in the exact pattern of the braces. Of course it was tuned to concert pitch for its entire, rather short life. I guess that's a "whoops my bad", outcome.

AFTERTHOUGHT: All things being considered, it would be a whole lot cheaper to reset the neck of the 12 string, as opposed to paying medical bills to repair the hooker. Say it ain't so...
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 15, 2015,
#25
get any 12 in that price range that has GOOD ACTION at the nut. Don't worry about sound or quality or relief. Almost all your playing is done in the first 5 frets. You want to find out if 12 is for you. If you like 12'ving then get a very expensive, high quality, robust one with GOOD ACTION at the nut that doesn't die with a capo for a keeper and tune it D-d with medium lights.