#1
Is it possible to run a guitar through both a guitar amp, and a bass amp at the same time? I think this would be awesome for a Baritone guitar, 6 or 8-String, just for awesome tone.
#3
Yep. A/B/Y pedal to split the signal. One cable into the pedal. One cable out to the guitar amp, another cable out to the bass amp. Depending upon the bass amp, you may need to put an overdrive between the a/b/y/ and the bass amp to get a little grit going.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#4
Quote by Liam-Phillips
Is it possible to run a guitar through both a guitar amp, and a bass amp at the same time? I think this would be awesome for a Baritone guitar, 6 or 8-String, just for awesome tone.


It's possible, and this question comes up about once a month here.

It probably makes more sense to have a single full-range speaker cabinet, however.

For example, the Carvin LS-1503 (http://www.carvinaudio.com/products/ls1503-800w-15-inch-3-way-main-speaker ) has a 15" LF driver, a 6.5" mids driver and a 1" tweeter and will handle up to 800W ( 400w continuous /800w program /1600w peak) of power and a frequency response of 46 Hz - 20 kHz (-10DB); 52 Hz - 18 kHz (-3 dB) The cabinet weighs 58 lbs and is set up for either one amp or bi-amping. The cabinet runs about $279.



A power amp that will drive the cabinet (or two), like the Carvin HD1500, runs about $299, weighs about 9 lbs and will provide up to 900W (bridged, mono, 8 ohms) for a single cabinet or up to 1500W (bridged, mono, 4 ohms) for two. You'll need some kind of preamp setup with this rig.

You can, of course, run a standard 100W tube amp into the cabinet for lower volume or home use.

Another option is to use a powered subwoofer with your current guitar amp. Steve Lukather, some years ago, worked with ISP Technologies to develop the Vector SL, a separate cabinet with some sophisticated electronics that works with your current guitar amp. The output signal from your guitar amp is fed FIRST to the subwoofer (which selects and strips out the highs and mids and sends them on to your guitar amp's speakers, and then sends the lows to the sub, a closed-back ported cabinet with a 15" LF driver powered by a 600W internal amp. This eliminates the problem of having the guitar amp still try to produce the lows (even though the speakers aren't up to it) and waste power.
Last edited by dspellman at Nov 8, 2015,
#5
Wow, thanks guys for the input. I'll definitely do more research on this. A few months ago I heard people talking about 8-Strings and Baritone guitars, saying that to get the best tone, you needed a guitar and a bass amp, so i posted this to clarify if that was possible...
#6
Quote by Liam-Phillips
Wow, thanks guys for the input. I'll definitely do more research on this. A few months ago I heard people talking about 8-Strings and Baritone guitars, saying that to get the best tone, you needed a guitar and a bass amp, so i posted this to clarify if that was possible...



I'd say those folks are making strange assumptions. The only real reasons I can possibly see for needing to run a dual rig (Guitar Amp and Bass Amp) is because you don't have a bassist in your band, because you want to be a stage space hog, or because you want to do something interesting sonically different.

You would be perfectly fine running a typical guitar rig with any extended range instrument or baritone. There are guitar speakers out there that handle low end better than others such as Eminence Swampthangs or Celestion G12K100.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#7
Well yeah. It's not a must, it's just a suggestion for tone. Some dumbies were suggesting running an 8-String fully through a bass amp. So, you can get an idea of why I came to ultimate-guitar to ask this question xD

I'm thinking about running a Solid-State Blackstar ID:60TVP-H through a Mesa 1x12 Mini Recto Cab. Obviously the head has two speaker outputs. Do you think it would be possible for me to output one to the Mesa Cab, and then another to a bass cab? I would probably have to use a pedal or something to tone down the bass cab, but would it be possible?

P.S. - The wattage would be 60 for both the head and the cab...if that makes any difference...
#8
Quote by ThunderPunk
IThere are guitar speakers out there that handle low end better than others such as Eminence Swampthangs or Celestion G12K100.


A Swamp Thang may be touted by Eminence as handling low end, but it's really not all that good at it. Below 100Hz (you'll have to download the .pdf on the speaker to see the frequency response graph in that region), it drops off very quickly.



And note that its resonant frequency is in the 90's, well above a standard 6-string's low E at 82Hz.:
Specification
Nominal Basket Diameter 12", 305 mm
Nominal Impedance* 8 Ω
Power Rating**
Watts 150 W
Music Program N/A
Resonance 97 Hz
Usable Frequency Range 70 Hz - 4 kHz
Sensitivity*** 102 dB
Magnet Weight 59 oz.
Gap Height 0.312", 7.9 mm
Voice Coil Diameter 2", 51 mm


Check out the Eminence Delta ProA in comparison:
Nominal Basket Diameter 12", 305 mm
Nominal Impedance* 8 Ω
Power Rating**
Watts 400 W
Music Program 800 W
Resonance 51 Hz
Usable Frequency Range 52 Hz - 4.5 kHz
Sensitivity*** 99.2 dB
Magnet Weight 80 oz.
Gap Height 0.375", 9.5 mm
Voice Coil Diameter 2.5", 64 mm
Last edited by dspellman at Nov 9, 2015,
#9
Quote by Liam-Phillips
Well yeah. It's not a must, it's just a suggestion for tone. Some dumbies were suggesting running an 8-String fully through a bass amp.


That's not necessarily a dumb thing to do at all. Depends on the bass amp and the speaker complement that goes with it. My bass cabinets are full-range, running from a pretty solid 40Hz to 18Khz with fairly flat response. My bass head runs about 900W into a single cabinet, around 1500W into two. You can run keyboard (full range) and modeled guitar into that setup as well.


Quote by Liam-Phillips
P.S. - The wattage would be 60 for both the head and the cab...if that makes any difference...


It does. A speaker needs to move about four times as much air to produce a low note with the same volume as the same note an octave up. Put another way, you want a LOT more power in your bass amp than you need in a guitar amp. You'd want to use a bass amp with more like 250W+ to produce the low end in a worthwhile manner if you're using all 60W of the guitar amp.
#10
Well I play guitar. The bass amp would be full low end/bass tones produced by a baritone or 8-string guitar. So I probably wouldn't need something SUPER powerful, I just heard that some people run a bass cab and a guitar cab for epic tone.
#11
Quote by Liam-Phillips
Well I play guitar. The bass amp would be full low end/bass tones produced by a baritone or 8-string guitar. So I probably wouldn't need something SUPER powerful, I just heard that some people run a bass cab and a guitar cab for epic tone.


I dunno about "epic." You *can* run into phasing, interference and a small list of wonky issues that might make it considerably less epic. That's why a single full-range cabinet is preferred. What's correct is that reproducing the bass component of those guitars needs something beyond standard guitar speakers. Otherwise, what you're actually hearing is a mix of higher harmonics that sort of "indicate" those lows. You're hearing something, but it's not the note. Consider it an AM radio version.

If you're playing mostly in your bedroom, you won't need a huge amount of power (though the bottom notes WILL be consuming a lot more than those an octave up), but if you try to take that rig out somewhere and compete with a drummer, your bottom end will pretty much disappear.

A standard 6-string produces a low E at 82Hz.
The 7-string's low B is right around 61.7Hz
The 8-string's low G (if that's where you're tuning it) is around 49Hz.
Baritones start anywhere from A (55Hz) to B.

As a comparison, a standard 4-string bass tunes open strings around E1=41Hz, A1=55Hz, D2=73.4Hz, G2=98Hz

As you can see, 7's, 8's and Baritones all drop well into the bass guitar region.
Last edited by dspellman at Nov 9, 2015,
#12
So what kind of rig would you recommend to ensure all mids highs and lows are well balanced? That is, if we were talking about a Baritone or 8-String guitar?
#13
Quote by Liam-Phillips
So what kind of rig would you recommend to ensure all mids highs and lows are well balanced? That is, if we were talking about a Baritone or 8-String guitar?


I would probably recommend a single wide-range speaker cabinet, like that Carvin LS-1503, above, and whatever head or preamp/power amp combination you like that has enough power to give you clean bottom end (you can always dirty things up) at the volumes you need to achieve. Sometimes, if you're playing with others, that means that you just run directly from a good preamp into the PA mixer.
#14
FWIW, Charlie Hunter splits his signal on his custom 7s & 8s to go through separate guitar and bass rigs. But in his case, his guitars are made so that the lower 2 or 3 strings are actual bass strings, each monitored by actual bass pickups, and with separate outputs.

...which is why his bands don't include bass players.
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Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Nov 9, 2015,
#16
Quote by dspellman
A Swamp Thang may be touted by Eminence as handling low end, but it's really not all that good at it.


Is this assessment made by ear, or just looking at charts/specs? If we were to simply go by charts/specs, then it looks like Eminence doesn't make any guitar speakers that are good at handling low end. Aside from the possibility of the Texas Heat and Tonker perhaps performing slightly better than the Swamp in the low end department.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
Last edited by ThunderPunk at Nov 9, 2015,
#17
Quote by ThunderPunk
Is this assessment made by ear, or just looking at charts/specs?


Both. Add to that some evaluation with an RTA and some assistance from Eminence themselves. There are also some suggestions for cabinet dimensions, design, etc., to get the most out of the speakers; this becomes more important as you head down the frequency curve. The Delta ProAs aren't specifically guitar speakers. They're found in the Pro Audio section of Eminence's catalog. Good stuff. I used four of them (in two 2x12 ported stereo-capable cabinets) for quite a while. They're also pretty bulletproof; they'll each handle around 400W.
#18
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