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#1
...not even socialist europe has a minimum wage of $15.


oh and of course bernie sanders wants $15 as well



I don't understand the sense of entitlement that these unskilled workers have. Striking? There's a kid lined up willing to do your job for the same or lower pay. How about you gain some ****ing skills, move up or learn something useful? Seriously I don't understand. I fukin worked at a fast food making $7.25 and I didn't think I should've made more either.


Either way it won't solve any problems.

This is just a scheme to gain literally most of the US population's vote.
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#2
I will pay you 15 dollars per hour to not make threads
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#3
Quote by Hydra150
I will pay you 15 dollars per hour to not make threads



me too. that's 30 dollars per hour right there, buddy.


think about it.
#5
Quote by MeGaDeth2314
me too. that's 30 dollars per hour right there, buddy.


think about it.


Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
There shall be a stop to this madness. The battle is not over. My tasty licks aren't going anywhere.

Quote by The_Blode
^ I've just realised if you say Simple Plan's 2011 effort "Get Your Heart On!" really fast in a Southern American accent, it sounds gross. . .like sexual gross!

Quote by Necroheadbanger
Hello.
I'm looking for professional bongo-ists and triangle-ists to make a Progressive Technical Brutal Death Metal band
(will be called AxOxJxLxAxIxVxXxUxWxZxQxUxRxWxGxJxSxAxLxKxMxNxHxUxGxAxAxWxVxCxBxZxVx)
(Don't even ask what it means)


https://soundcloud.com/95dank



#6
Quote by bradulator
How about like 10 dollars yeesh

Way more reasonable
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#8
Quote by k.lainad
How about you gain some ****ing skills, move up or learn something useful?.



This sentiment pisses me off so much. Not everyone can "move up". Somebody has to work low-skill jobs. Society cannot function without them. They have always existed and they always will. And don't give me that shit about "they're meant for teenagers".
Check out my band Disturbed
#9
Quote by StewieSwan
This sentiment pisses me off so much. Not everyone can "move up". Somebody has to work low-skill jobs. Society cannot function without them. They have always existed and they always will. And don't give me that shit about "they're meant for teenagers".

Yes
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#10
Quote by StewieSwan
This sentiment pisses me off so much. Not everyone can "move up". Somebody has to work low-skill jobs. Society cannot function without them. They have always existed and they always will. And don't give me that shit about "they're meant for teenagers".


AGREED.
every society needs low-skill jobs, obviously, and age isn't the point at all.

but.

A Big Mac meal is gonna be $10 and health care costs are going to be higher. What are these idiots thinking? What do they not understand? Minimum wage for minimum skill.

The big corporations will be fine but the franchise stores and mom and pop shops will not be able to afford $15/hr so good job bernie
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
There shall be a stop to this madness. The battle is not over. My tasty licks aren't going anywhere.

Quote by The_Blode
^ I've just realised if you say Simple Plan's 2011 effort "Get Your Heart On!" really fast in a Southern American accent, it sounds gross. . .like sexual gross!

Quote by Necroheadbanger
Hello.
I'm looking for professional bongo-ists and triangle-ists to make a Progressive Technical Brutal Death Metal band
(will be called AxOxJxLxAxIxVxXxUxWxZxQxUxRxWxGxJxSxAxLxKxMxNxHxUxGxAxAxWxVxCxBxZxVx)
(Don't even ask what it means)


https://soundcloud.com/95dank



#11
Quote by k.lainad
AGREED.
every society needs low-skill jobs, obviously, and age isn't the point at all.

but.

A Big Mac meal is gonna be $10 and health care costs are going to be higher. What are these idiots thinking? What do they not understand? Minimum wage for minimum skill.

The big corporations will be fine but the franchise stores and mom and pop shops will not be able to afford $15/hr so good job bernie



So why even have a minimum wage at all then?
Check out my band Disturbed
#12
It's a little late in the game to conjur up worries about mom n pops surviving against megacorporations
#13
Quote by StewieSwan
So why even have a minimum wage at all then?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnAlrDdofnw

these people might not be able to get a college education, or even move-up the ladder to a better job.

but this? just lol at this
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
There shall be a stop to this madness. The battle is not over. My tasty licks aren't going anywhere.

Quote by The_Blode
^ I've just realised if you say Simple Plan's 2011 effort "Get Your Heart On!" really fast in a Southern American accent, it sounds gross. . .like sexual gross!

Quote by Necroheadbanger
Hello.
I'm looking for professional bongo-ists and triangle-ists to make a Progressive Technical Brutal Death Metal band
(will be called AxOxJxLxAxIxVxXxUxWxZxQxUxRxWxGxJxSxAxLxKxMxNxHxUxGxAxAxWxVxCxBxZxVx)
(Don't even ask what it means)


https://soundcloud.com/95dank



#14
If someone's ability to add value to a company is less than what that company is required to pay, their employment becomes an encumbrance. These pie-in-the-sky ideas sound cogent, but might actually hurt a lot of people.

BTW, Herself wants it to be $12 an hour. It would be a really interesting debate if she and Bernie were asked to argue why each of their plans was better.
#17
Having a minimum wage is wack. Pushing it up to $15 an hour is a wack attack.
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#19
Quote by CaptainRon
Increase the minimum wage all you want, but at least understand that everyone including the poor end up paying more for goods and services.

Have you been paying for goods and services, shits been going up.
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#20
If we raise the minimum wage then we better restrict the shit out of immigration (de facto, not the current lackluster effort). An increase in the unskilled labor force with an increase in the minimum wage for said labor is unsustainable, or rather, more unsustainable than our current situation.
#21
Quote by drunkseph
Have you been paying for goods and services, shits been going up.


Yes, I live in Canada so it's even worse. I live in a province where we've just voted to raise minimum wage to $15.

Talk to any business owner and you'll find out that they're just going to charge more to compensate.
#22
Quote by StewieSwan
So why even have a minimum wage at all then?

The federal minimum wage is primarily intended to level the competition between states.

This $15 an hour thing is pure feel good bs.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#23
Quote by CaptainRon


Talk to any business owner and you'll find out that they're just going to charge more to compensate.


I know a McDonald's owner he says most of the private owners are just going to decrease their staff to compensate
#24
among people who study this matter (economists), there is no consensus on the total effects of minimum wage increase and exactly how the present economic conditions affect the outcome of such a policy.

good to see the mystery has been solved by a handful of posters on a wood&string forum
#26
Quote by Eastwinn
among people who study this matter (economists), there is no consensus on the total effects of minimum wage increase and exactly how the present economic conditions affect the outcome of such a policy.

good to see the mystery has been solved by a handful of posters on a wood&string forum

Came here to say this.

Then I remembered that I don't know how to read economic studies lol. Anyway, somebody oughta read some of those studies and refute the findings for someone like me who has no knowledge about money whatsoever. The abstracts suggest that there aren't significant harmful effects like those who are anti-increase-of-minimum-wage claim.
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#27
Put it this way, even super liberal NYT columnist Paul Krugman is against a minimum wage.
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#28
Quote by Eastwinn
among people who study this matter (economists), there is no consensus on the total effects of minimum wage increase and exactly how the present economic conditions affect the outcome of such a policy.

good to see the mystery has been solved by a handful of posters on a wood&string forum


You're right, there is no consensus, but that does not mean we cannot state our opinions on a wood & string forum. Clearly there are many economists that back our point of view.

I'll state personal anecdotes and maintain the opinion that business owners are mostly simple people that react to a minimum rage hike by making the obvious choice of cutting staff and raising prices instead of commissioning an economic forum for determining the impact on their business.

I find it a much more comforting position than "even though we don't know what is going to happen, lets raise it and find out anyway".
#29
Quote by Rossenrot
Find me a topic economists have a consensus on.


If the Jackson on the 20 is Jermaine, it's most definitely fake.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#30
But really, there isn't a topic economists agree on. That comment was cheap even by his standards.
#31
So you're telling me that economists don't all agree that it's Andrew Jackson on the 20?
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#32
Quote by Rossenrot
Find me a topic economists have a consensus on.


Higher minimum wage reducing poverty.

Let’s first highlight the major results. Dube uses the latest in minimum-wage statistics and finds a negative relationship between the minimum wage and poverty. Specifically, raising the minimum wage 10 percent (say from $7.25 to near $8) would reduce the number of people living in poverty 2.4 percent. (For those who thrive on jargon, the minimum wage has an “elasticity” of -0.24 when it comes to poverty reduction.)

Using this as an estimate, raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, as many Democrats are proposing in 2014, would reduce the number of people living in poverty by 4.6 million. It would also boost the incomes of those at the 10th percentile by $1,700. That’s a significant increase in the quality of life for our worst off that doesn’t require the government to tax and spend a single additional dollar. And, given that this policy is self-enforcing with virtually no administrative costs while challenging the employer’s market power, it is a powerful complement to the rest of the policies the government uses to boost the living standards of the worst off, including the Earned Income Tax Credit, food stamps, Medicaid, etc.

Now, this is normally the part where we’d have to go through the counter-arguments, using different data and techniques from different economists, to argue that the minimum wage wouldn’t do this. But this is the fun part: Dube’s paper finds a remarkable consistency across studies here. For instance, in a 2011 paper by minimum-wage opponent David Neumark, raising the minimum wage 10 percent would reduce poverty 2.9 percent (an elasticity of -0.29) for 21-44-year-old family heads or individuals. That’s very similar to what Dube finds. Neumark doesn’t mention this directly in the paper however; Dube is able to back out this conclusion using other variables that are listed.


Sauce: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/01/04/economists-agree-raising-the-minimum-wage-reduces-poverty/
#DTWD
#33
If you own a franchise restaurant like McDonalds, you most certainly can give your employees more than $7.25 an hour they are doing NOTHING else for them, no insurance and hardly enough hours to make more than $200 every 2 weeks... that's $400 a month and no benefits... now if this is someone who lives on their own... how you going to pay rent, power, food, fuel , auto insurance, your Obamacare plan payments. That is not a livable wage folks... but when they do get the hourly hike they will cut the hours back even more than they do now... the owners are greedy rich fucks living it up. So , yeah, you'll get $15 an hr but only enough hours to make $200 every two weeks, UNLESS you get that UNION and stick to the greedy rich cocksoakers.

There are not enough manufacturing jobs ,which pay better here in the US and the better ones are UNION which if you do not know somebody you can forget getting a job there. Because they hire their own and it's hard as hell for the company to fire them with union protection. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying without knowing SOMEBODY you're not getting in.

The $15.00 Hr min would hurt small mom&pop shops that have like 10 or less employees who arn't seeing McDonalds sales. Still some of them do well enough to play their employees better

I know a McDonald's owner he says most of the private owners are just going to decrease their staff to compensate


That's so he can maintain his life style and profit margins. Most franchise owners have more than one store in any one area... the ones who have been doing it longer have more spreading an entire state or two don't listen to the bullshit he's making the jack.
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#34
There are 2 issues with any minimum wage increase: the minimum wage, and the increase

I'd say that going from 0 to 60 by suddenly increasing the minimum wage from one day to the next will have an impact. Maybe prices will go up, maybe employees will be laid off. I dunno, I'm not an economist, specially not a US one.
But these negative effects (if there are any) shouldn't detract from any argument about why the minimum wage should be higher or not.
I know little of US economics so I dunno what a 15$ wage even represents, but I suppose the minimum wage is getting increased because it's not enough to afford healthcare, housing, food, water, safety, education, support a family, etc, right?
If that's so, what alternative to a minimum wage increase is there to solve this?
Last edited by gonzaw at Nov 10, 2015,
#35
Quote by Rossenrot
Find me a topic economists have a consensus on.


there's a panel of 40 economists called the igm expert panel constructed to represent the field*, and they're frequently polled to investigate consensus. here are some things they're all pretty sure about

"Declining to be vaccinated against contagious diseases such as measles imposes costs on other people, which is a negative externality."

"Behavior in many complex and seemingly intractable strategic settings can be understood more clearly by working out what each party in the game will choose to do if they realize that the other parties will be solving the same problem. This insight has helped us understand behavior as diverse as military conflicts, price setting by competing firms and penalty kicking in soccer."

"Because of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been without the stimulus bill." (almost all either 'agree' or 'strongly agree')

"There is a social value to having institutions that issue liquid liabilities that are backed by illiquid assets." (similar to above)

as for the question at hand, they vary, with 'uncertain' being the most common answer, and while they seem to be more in consensus about the effect on aggregate output, their comments and 'confidence levels' reveal more uncertainty than the bar graph does.

i'm not saying you all can't discuss this, but people have a habit of referencing some mystical shifting straight line demand and supply of labor curves as if that provides any real clarity on the issue.

really, there is actually plenty of consensus in economics, since it's a legitimate social science and everything with a significant body of knowledge, but the issues of a $15 minimum wage is not one of them

*note that they do have issues with gender and race. i don't claim this panel to be perfectly representative, but it's probably good enough for my point
#36
While we're giving anecdotal evidence, I work at Wendy's. We all start above minimum wage. It has been slowly increasing here in NJ little by little, but employment across our franchise has not seen a decrease in employment- it's actually increased as the owner keeps buying more stores- for which I'm adjusting, by the way, before you make that argument. So not only are we hiring more people at stores that were already part of the franchise, we buy more stores and then hire more people (not including those who already worked at the stores that were purchased).

I can't imagine fast food would really ever cut employment in response to minimum wage, at least in a way that's statistically significant. Food service relies very heavily on how many people are working, if you've ever worked there you'll know how much of an effect of having shorthanded on staff has. Not only that, but large restaurant chains make huge profits, so they could afford it more than other businesses. You're better off arguing against increase of minimum wage using small businesses as support for your argument.
Free Ali
Last edited by chrismendiola at Nov 10, 2015,
#37
I dunno, man. AFAIK McDonalds as a company is going to shit and franchise owners all across the land are freaking out about it because suddenly no one wants their shitty hamburgers made at the expense of the working poor anymore. People deserve a living wage. And if that results in owners supplanting human labor with automated service, so be it. Bring on the guaranteed basic income so most of us can stop renting away half our lives.

Most min wage increases have shown no effect, neither positive nor negative, if I recall correctly. But one this steep would be interesting to see on such a large scale (I know SF and Seattle have done it). I tend to be optimistic and think, while in the short term jobs will be lost, in the long term the additional disposable income will increase consumer buying power thereby creating more jobs.
#DTWD
#38
Quote by theogonia777
So you're telling me that economists don't all agree that it's Andrew Jackson on the 20?


Slow down now. You're starting to get more into money matters, something economists know nothing about.
.
#39
Forty economists, wow. I didn't know there was so few. I can find you 40 in the Chicago School alone that agree minimum wage is bad.
#40
Quote by gonzaw
There are 2 issues with any minimum wage increase: the minimum wage, and the increase

I'd say that going from 0 to 60 by suddenly increasing the minimum wage from one day to the next will have an impact. Maybe prices will go up, maybe employees will be laid off. I dunno, I'm not an economist, specially not a US one.
But these negative effects (if there are any) shouldn't detract from any argument about why the minimum wage should be higher or not.
I know little of US economics so I dunno what a 15$ wage even represents, but I suppose the minimum wage is getting increased because it's not enough to afford healthcare, housing, food, water, safety, education, support a family, etc, right?
If that's so, what alternative to a minimum wage increase is there to solve this?


Stronger unions. IIRC Scandinavian countries don't even have minimum wage, they just have BAMF unions/guilds that bargain on workers' behalf for high wages. Same with Germany. Though it has a minimum wage, I believe I heard people often start out making more due to powerful union influence.
#DTWD
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