#1
Hey everybody, I've been playing around with some new chord voicing lately and accidentally found this amazing sounding variation on an Fmaj7. I've been writing with a group that plays primarily in D minor, so the only place I can squeeze this new chord in with what they've already written is if it's used as the "III" chord in scale. The progression i-VI-III-VII (Dmin, Bbmaj, Fmaj7, Cmaj) sounds alright to me, but I haven't had much luck forcing it to fit in other progressions I've tried.

tldr;
Do you guys have favorite minor chord progressions that really focus on the third chord in the key?
#2
I believe that that would be the bIII actually. III would be F#.
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#3
Wasn't that what GD did for "Holiday"? (in F-minor, though.)

The main thing it does is make the tonic a bit more ambiguous between the minor and its relative major.
#4
III and bIII are hugely different things. on the tonic of D, III would be F#maj, and bIII would be Fmaj. in classical analysis, if D minor is specified, III is typically just taken to mean Fmaj, so this is an acceptable usage.

in a minor key, III serves a similar function to the tonic, being that the two triads share two notes between them. it's strange that you say you can't make it work in other progressions, because it's actually one of the easiest chords to use in a minor key. it tends to smooth a lot of movement, at least when used in conjunction with the tonic chord.

in classical minor piece analysis, because so much is based on the harmonic minor scale (not getting into that here), the chord we've come to call VII in D minor (Cmaj) would actually be treated as more of a V/III -- that is, the fifth chord built off of the third degree (which in this case is F, and to build the fifth chord off of F is to get Cmaj). if you want to emphasize the III, try to use that V/III before it, rather than after it, as you have it in the progression above. you will feel a much stronger pull if you add the 7th as well (C7). to be fair, if you really want to emphasize the III, you may want to consider building longer and slightly more elaborate progressions that draw the listener's attention -- it's difficult (though not impossible!) to properly, consistently, and effectively emphasize one particular chord in a four-chord loop. you might try a ii-V-I kind of deal (Gm7 - C7 - Fmaj) to really pull the focus to the Fmaj chord, but the problem with looping that (Dm - Gm7 - C7 - Fmaj) is that the return to the Dm from the Fmaj chord is not as satisfactory as it could have been had you added something else. these are the kinds of difficulties i'm talking about regarding emphasizing chords in four-chord loops -- these sorts of tricks aren't as effective as they would be elsewhere.

for a four-chord loop, i recommend ||: Dm | C7 | Fmaj | A7 :||

for something just a bit more elaborate that focuses on the F chord, i recommend
||: Dm | D7 | Gm7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | Fmaj7/E | Em7b5 | A7 :||

remember to let your ears be your guide.
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#5
Quote by Zan595
Do you guys have favorite minor chord progressions that really focus on the third chord in the key?
A minor key progression that focussed on the III chord is likely to sound like the relative major.

Ie, if you play in D minor and put too much emphasis on F, then the key will sound like F.
That's because the major is tonally stronger than the relative minor. Which is why the minor key tends to use a major V (A or A7 in D minor).

Of course (even without A) you can still use the F chord, you just need to use Dm more.
#6
Quote by theogonia777
I believe that that would be the bIII actually. III would be F#.



No no no. F is the III. If it was D Major it would be an F#. F Major is the relative major key to D minor.
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#7
Well a progression that focuses on III in minor would probably be in the relative major key, not the minor. It might be difficult to maintain minor tonality when you're laying on the relative major chord much of time.

i III VII VI is an extremely common progression, think of the obnoxiously popular "Renegades" by Ex Ambassadors. Bryan Adams "Run to You" also uses the i III movement. You can turn on the radio and just about every song in a minor key will go to III at some point.

Quote by theogonia777
I believe that that would be the bIII actually. III would be F#.


The root intervals are assumed diatonic to the key, so it's just III in minor. No need to specify flat if you're already in a minor key.
Last edited by cdgraves at Nov 11, 2015,
#8
Sounds like zombie to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts

Your roman numerals were right. I'm sure there are lots of ways to use an F major in that kery, and I think you'll find that you can almost always shove a V7, in this case A7, after that F and return to the i, Dm.

I wouldn't recommend writing a song in a specific key based on the voicing of a chord though, especially if you trying hard to make it work. I also don't recommend playing in the same key all the time as a band.

It will sound boring after a while. There is no reason for it, even if you have a vocalist with limited range.
Last edited by fingrpikingood at Nov 11, 2015,
#9
Thanks for the incredibly in depth replies everybody, I honestly wasn't expecting this much info when I came back to check haha. Certainly got the results I wanted with that progression!
#10
Quote by RabidPikachu at #33677987
No no no. F is the III. If it was D Major it would be an F#. F Major is the relative major key to D minor.


Quote by cdgraves at #33677994
The root intervals are assumed diatonic to the key, so it's just III in minor. No need to specify flat if you're already in a minor key.


I was pretty sure you do have to specify that it's flat even when you're in a minor key. I remember having this exact conversation and someone else coming in and correcting me because I was arguing the wrong side, which I think was the same point that you're arguing.

What if you had a F# chord in a progression that resolves to D minor? How would you notate that? If you make F III then there's no way to label F#. It makes it impossible to label non-diatonic chords.


edit: Damnit, wrong again! I just found the other thread I was talking about and both times now I've gone for the wrong way. It just makes more sense to me.
Last edited by The4thHorsemen at Nov 11, 2015,
#11
You would only use an accidental in front of a Roman numeral if it's different from the diatonic chord. Obviously F Major is the diatonic III of D minor so you wouldn't use an accidental. To indicate F# you could use #III (or just III).
#12
Yup, I just skimmed through the thread where you corrected me on this a year and a half ago. Here I am again trying to correct someone who's right Hopefully it sticks this time.
#13
That thread is notable for two reasons. First, that Rob guy was a dick. Second, this is amazing.

Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Anything other than this that was posted in this thread is complete garbage nonsense. Like literally everything.

Garbage nonsense is gonna be my new thing now.