Page 1 of 2
#1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9940934/Ucas-Men-are-becoming-disadvantaged-group.html

Universities are setting targets to recruit more men as male students are increasingly becoming the “disadvantaged group” in education, MPs have been told.

Mary Curnock Cook, the head of the admissions service, Ucas, said she was “very worried” about the decline in the proportion of young men applying for places on degree courses.

The trend has significant implications for society because university graduates are expected to earn far more than workers without degrees, the Commons business select committee was warned.


Is this an example of Men Going Their Own Way, or is it something far worse?
#3
Any men feeling disadvantaged should just fucking grow a pair and get on with it amirite?

No but seriously what makes them disadvantaged? Is it positive discrimination based on that rubbish 'what minority are you' form on pretty much every application for anything? Is it just that men are going back to traditional 'trade' jobs so they can start earning straight after school instead of spending four years studying and joining an increasingly crouded jobs market?

I mean unless universities have been rejecting applicants purely because they're men I don't see what the problem is.
#4
Vague and poorly defined ~social~ reasons probably

I for one, look forward to becoming a stay at home husband whilst my wife earns all the dollar for me. It sounds #liberating
#5
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Vague and poorly defined ~social~ reasons probably

I for one, look forward to becoming a stay at home husband whilst my wife earns all the dollar for me. It sounds #liberating


I'd love that. When my wife wasn't working all she used to do was bitch about how hard it was.

The occasions (most weekends) I stay at home looking after littl'n while she's at work are brilliant. Chill out, play with kid, kid goes for a nap, play Xbox, little wander down the shops, do all the house work when she's texted me to say she's on the way home. I would totally do that full-time if I could.

EDIT: To be fair though the only time she wasn't work was when littl'n was a newborn. That was hard fucking work, and I sort of let the side down during that period.
Last edited by RAB11 at Nov 16, 2015,
#6
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Vague and poorly defined ~social~ reasons probably

I for one, look forward to becoming a stay at home husband whilst my wife earns all the dollar for me. It sounds #liberating

And i totally support your right to do that.

And from my own personal experience, there were plenty of women in my classes, sometimes outnumbering the men. However, in 2.years in my graduate studies I only had one female professor who gave like 3 lectures in total. Women still seem to be outnumbered where it counts. But yeah, it will probably just adjust over time given the inflow.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#7
I enjoy cleaning and ironing and cooking and even a bit of gardening so my mums housewive life sounds like a bit of a dream especially compared to my dad 9-6 work days plus a commute to London and back every day It must be hard looking after a kid and probably can get depressing if you have no human contact but I'd definitely be up for doing a househusband life for a bit.

Yeah the number of senior academics is definitely skewed but it will certainly even out as more women get to that age. With us, we are in scientific field are we not Neo? Female/male ratios are certainly not 50/50 in the chemistry/physics/maths part of academia so they will remain majority male for a time longer - I think with humanities you are seeing a balance or even majority ladies in senior roles.

Women should become plumbers and electricians more though.
#8
Quote by Neo Evil11


And from my own personal experience, there were plenty of women in my classes, sometimes outnumbering the men.


Not really bothered to by that to be honest. Unless there is institutionalised sexism towards men or at the very least a big push to discourage men from going to uni, neither of which seem likely to me, it's probably just a trend that will alter in another 5-10 years.
#9
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I enjoy cleaning and ironing and cooking and even a bit of gardening so my mums housewive life sounds like a bit of a dream especially compared to my dad 9-6 work days plus a commute to London and back every day It must be hard looking after a kid and probably can get depressing if you have no human contact but I'd definitely be up for doing a househusband life for a bit.




The first few months are the hardest IMO. In that period ours would need feeding and changing literally every three hours, you'd get your head down in the middle of the night and after what seems like five minutes he's suddenly screaming again and you wonder how those three hours have possibly past. I was splitting night feeds with my wife at the time because he wasn't really breastfeeding and had to take a day off work from exhaustion because I literally couldn't get out of bed. And when he's not screaming his head off he either needs to be held or put in a place where he literally can't move meaning pretty much no spare time. They're at their neediest at the time when you have the least idea how it all works.

He's 13 months old now, and while it's not exactly life as normal, he's quite capable of entertaining himself, although he obviously wants us to join him so he can show us whatever new thing he's learned. Starting to take five or six steps at a time by himself now and the look of joy on his face makes the times he's up in the middle of the night because of teething not seem so bad.
#10
No one's excluding men because they're male. We're pretty far from that kind of society.

I have a lot of hope that we will get there one day
#11
What I am about to say, probably won't be popular here.
This place is becoming more PC and to many get butthurt (not a new thing anywhere really) at the drop of a hat.
(And yeah, maybe I'm a little butthurt about this subject).

College Scholarships.

Many college scholarships are available to everyone as long as they meet the GPA requirements, regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc.
And in many cases those considered to be "Living in Poverty", which is a ridiculously low number considering the cost of living, can qualify based on that alone (I imagine GPA is still an issue, but maybe they are a little more lenient under these circumstances).

For pretty much every human being (At least those that aren't hampered by location, like living in the middle of The Congo or something), that does not fall under the White Male moniker, be it due to their race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, etc., there are special organizations that offer special scholarships to them.
And restrict them to only those under that particular group.

There are no special scholarships or organizations that restrict their scholarships solely to white males (Maybe the KKK ).
A big stink would be raised if some organization restricted their scholarships solely to white males.
That would be called racist. And sexist.
But its OK to restrict scholarships to any other group.

Its somehow OK to restrict a scholarship to anyone with brown skin, females, gays, etc.
Don't get me wrong here, I really have no problem with making things easier to get scholarships, education here costs a shitload of money, but do it across the board.
Have numerous organizations that represent all races, sexes, religions, etc.
Or have none and offer scholarships to everyone.

This is kind of a personal issue for me.
I applied for loans, grants, scholarships but was denied every time.
All because my dad made too much money.
Problem was, my step-mother was a major bitch and a meth and cocaine freak.

BUT PLEASE, PROVE ME WRONG. REALLY. AND NOT WITH ATTITUDE, BUT WITH FACTS.
Honestly, I would like to go back to school, but can't afford it.

And the Job market, at least in the past was the same way.
I have been turned down for jobs that I was more than qualified for because some company needed to make some kind of hiring quota based on race or sex.

Now go on and hate me.
Last edited by CodeMonk at Nov 16, 2015,
#12
It's because unis look down on proper lad culture

Sexism innit
Eat your pheasant
Drink your wine
Your days are numbered, bourgeois swine!
#13
Since when do companies have hiring quotas for race or gender?
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#14
University =/= real life.
Quote by MetalGS3SE
This is the best idea I have ever heard. Ever.

Naedauuf for president people.


#16
Quote by Neo Evil11
Since when do companies have hiring quotas for race or gender?


Doubt there are actual quotas here in the UK but over here whenever you apply for a job/uni/benefits/whatever there is almost always an 'equal opportunities' form in which you indicate what race you belong to, what religion, if any, religion you follow, your gender, your sexual orientation, that sort of thing.

Pretty sure it's used so that if you aren't successful in that particular application whoever is responsible can go through all the applications and say 'well we've had quite a diverse set of applicants so you just weren't successful'

Could be used for positive discrimination though. As in 'oh, my workforce is predominantly white and male, the next person I employ will definitely be a woman/black/gay/whatever.' That last bit is pure speculation on my part but it's still a stupid form. Although to be fair I'm pretty sure filling it out is optional.
#17
Quote by RAB11
Doubt there are actual quotas here in the UK but over here whenever you apply for a job/uni/benefits/whatever there is almost always an 'equal opportunities' form in which you indicate what race you belong to, what religion, if any, religion you follow, your gender, your sexual orientation, that sort of thing.

Pretty sure it's used so that if you aren't successful in that particular application whoever is responsible can go through all the applications and say 'well we've had quite a diverse set of applicants so you just weren't successful'

Could be used for positive discrimination though. As in 'oh, my workforce is predominantly white and male, the next person I employ will definitely be a woman/black/gay/whatever.' That last bit is pure speculation on my part but it's still a stupid form. Although to be fair I'm pretty sure filling it out is optional.


Yeah I don't quite get the point in them forms I mean they're supposedly anonymous so they're not connected to your application and they're gonna hire who they're gonna hire it's impossible to say if an employer is going to be racist because actual hirings after a face to face interview are so subjective so without actual quotas (a bad thing) you can't really guarantee anything also this post makes no sense and is confusinh.
#18
Quote by Neo Evil11
Since when do companies have hiring quotas for race or gender?

Maybe not so much now, but in the USA it started back in the 80's and it was a common practice.
Its still done, but not so much these days or they are more clandestine about it.

Quote by naedauuf
University =/= real life.

I beg to differ.
Not being able to afford an extended education can impact your real life.
I had to drop out because I couldn't afford to continue.
Last edited by CodeMonk at Nov 16, 2015,
#19
Quote by CodeMonk
There are no special scholarships or organizations that restrict their scholarships solely to white males (Maybe the KKK ).
A big stink would be raised if some organization restricted their scholarships solely to white males.
That would be called racist. And sexist.
But its OK to restrict scholarships to any other group.

That's because those social groups face being disadvantaged due to those reasons. White men don't face disadvantage because they're white or male. They might be disadvantaged for plenty of other reasons—economic, vocational, mental/physical disability-related—but the reason those scholarships exist is to ensure that social groups that are disadvantaged aren't held back because of those aspects.

Also, and I apologize if this is too invasive or personal, I don't know why having a negligent or abusive parent would qualify you for a scholarship. You could still afford tuition at the time because of your father, right?
#20
Would also like to say, at no point in my admittedly short life have I ever felt disadvantaged due to being male.
#21
Quote by ali.guitarkid7


Also, and I apologize if this is too invasive or personal, I don't know why having a negligent or abusive parent would qualify you for a scholarship. You could still afford tuition at the time because of your father, right?


Not to speak for CodeMonk but just because your father can afford to pay your tuition doesn't mean he's willing. It shouldn't come into it IMO.
#22
Yeah, that's plenty fucked up for a college to deny you. Nowadays I think you can just have them examine your own finances instead of your family's.
#23
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
That's because those social groups face being disadvantaged due to those reasons. White men don't face disadvantage because they're white or male. They might be disadvantaged for plenty of other reasons—economic, vocational, mental/physical disability-related—but the reason those scholarships exist is to ensure that social groups that are disadvantaged aren't held back because of those aspects.

Also, and I apologize if this is too invasive or personal, I don't know why having a negligent or abusive parent would qualify you for a scholarship. You could still afford tuition at the time because of your father, right?


There are special scholarships for pretty much every group of people EXCEPT white males.
And all those other groups also have access to the same scholarships that white males have.
They all have at least twice as many opportunities for scholarships as white males do.
How is that not a disadvantage?

I'm not saying that having an abusive parent would qualify anyone for a scholarship.
And yes, my father could have easily afforded to help me out with tuition.
But as I said, my step-mother (his wife) was a major cunt and wouldn't let him help me.
She had his balls in her purse.
Over the years, she screwed me out of money and other things numerous times and my dad didn't do shit to back me up against her. EVER.

Quote by RAB11
Not to speak for CodeMonk but just because your father can afford to pay your tuition doesn't mean he's willing. It shouldn't come into it IMO.

He was willing, even offered a good 6 months before I started school to help me out.
I had saved enough money to get me through the first year.
But then my step-mother got in the way, I got evicted (I was living in a trailer on the property). I wasn't even allowed in the house I grew up in anymore.
I had to use the horse bath and a garden hose to take my showers (it was a horse boarding stables).
But as I said, step-mother was a drug addled bitch who tried to financially screw me every chance she got.
I ended up using that saved money to take a class in Electronic Assembly at a trade school and cover the first few months of rent in a studio apartment.
But I had to drop out of school.
Last edited by CodeMonk at Nov 16, 2015,
#24
Actually understand where CodeMonk is coming from

If poor black male can apply for the black male scholarship and the poor person scholarship, and poor white female can apply for white female and poor person scholarship, but poor white male can only apply for poor person scholarship, then that's a problem because there is less opportunities for him to get scholarship, whilst the other 2 demographics get double as much chance of a scholarship.
#25
Quote by RAB11
Any men feeling disadvantaged should just fucking grow a pair and get on with it amirite?

No but seriously what makes them disadvantaged? Is it positive discrimination based on that rubbish 'what minority are you' form on pretty much every application for anything? Is it just that men are going back to traditional 'trade' jobs so they can start earning straight after school instead of spending four years studying and joining an increasingly crouded jobs market?

I mean unless universities have been rejecting applicants purely because they're men I don't see what the problem is.

Men simply aren't applying as often. Probably because it's more possible for men to make money without a degree.
#26
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Actually understand where CodeMonk is coming from

If poor black male can apply for the black male scholarship and the poor person scholarship, and poor white female can apply for white female and poor person scholarship, but poor white male can only apply for poor person scholarship, then that's a problem because there is less opportunities for him to get scholarship, whilst the other 2 demographics get double as much chance of a scholarship.

Yup, that's the point I was trying to make.


Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Yeah, that's plenty fucked up for a college to deny you. Nowadays I think you can just have them examine your own finances instead of your family's.

Back in the 80's it was more difficult to get tuition aid.
And while I was living on the same property, I was paying all my own bills (rent, gas, food, etc., water was free) and not living in the house.
I was more a working tenant than a relative.
I shoveled horse shit at the ranch for a living.
Last edited by CodeMonk at Nov 16, 2015,
#27
Quote by CodeMonk


He was willing, even offered a good 6 months before I started school to help me out.
I had saved enough money to get me through the first year.
But then my step-mother got in the way, I got evicted (I was living in a trailer on the property). I wasn't even allowed in the house I grew up in anymore.
I had to use the horse bath and a garden hose to take my showers (it was a horse boarding stables).
But as I said, step-mother was a drug addled bitch who tried to financially screw me every chance she got.
I ended up using that saved money to take a class in Electronic Assembly at a trade school and cover the first few months of rent in a studio apartment.
But I had to drop out of school.


Wasn't trying to imply that in your case specifically, more offering a scenario where one's father's finances aren't relevant.

Sorry to hear about the rest mate. Can't even imagine what that must have been like.
#28
Females generally do better in school traditionally, right? I think the only reason men used to outnumber students or graduates was because of the institutionalized sexism. Now that it's being eliminated, we're probably seeing a more accurate representation of the people who excel at traditional academics, and that just happens to be women.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#29
Quote by RAB11
Wasn't trying to imply that in your case specifically, more offering a scenario where one's father's finances aren't relevant.

Sorry to hear about the rest mate. Can't even imagine what that must have been like.

I know you weren't referring to my case specifically, just thought I would point it out anyway.

And back then, if you were living at home, family income was considered relevant back then.
And they used it to determine whether to give you a loan, grant or other tuition help.
regardless if that family was willing to help or not.
And while I wasn't living in the house, I was living on the same property.
Things were different back then.
#30
Quote by CodeMonk
There are special scholarships for pretty much every group of people EXCEPT white males.
And all those other groups also have access to the same scholarships that white males have.
They all have at least twice as many opportunities for scholarships as white males do.
How is that not a disadvantage?

Because there's already a tide against those social groups. There's none for being white. If you're white, you've simply never experienced systematic racism in the US. So you already have an advantage. It's a reward in itself that lasts way past college. I am sorry, I really am, that you couldn't find a scholarship, but you shouldn't expect reward for having a racial advantage.

To put it another way, those special groups exist to ensure that disadvantaged groups are not excluded. They do not exist for people who are already not excluded. Wanting to be included in something that exists for disadvantaged groups is overkill.

I'm not saying that having an abusive parent would qualify anyone for a scholarship.
And yes, my father could have easily afforded to help me out with tuition.
But as I said, my step-mother (his wife) was a major cunt and wouldn't let him help me.
She had his balls in her purse.
Over the years, she screwed me out of money and other things numerous times and my dad didn't do shit to back me up against her. EVER.

As I said, you'd qualify today. I really, really wouldn't pretend to know what it was like in the 80s for anyone, but I can tell you that even if you didn't, you'd have plenty of other options so long as you are a US citizen.
#31
So for the first time EVER when men are outnumbered, they are all of a sudden becoming a disadvantaged group.

That's some serious click-baiting by Telegraph btw.
Quote by Carmel
You are a redeeming feature for the UG Swedish population.


All-riiight.
Last edited by billybusa at Nov 16, 2015,
#32
Quote by billybusa
So for the first time EVER when men are outnumbered, they are all of a sudden becoming a disadvantaged group.



Women have outnumbered men in higher ed for a while now, buddy.
Check out my band Disturbed
#33
It's talking about the number of men applying, not the number of men denied scholarships or grants. There are thousands of purely academic/sports scholarships that don't consider race, gender, or class. I've never gotten money for college just for being a woman or non-white. I had three jobs, got straight As, and paid my own way like many other people. I haven't felt advantaged in any way for not being a white guy.
#34
Quote by StewieSwan
Women have outnumbered men in higher ed for a while now, buddy.


Not really a surprise though considering the lad-culture is growing.
Quote by Carmel
You are a redeeming feature for the UG Swedish population.


All-riiight.
#35
I grew up with tons of Mexicans. A lot didn't get scholarships because their parents made too much. It's the same shit every race. Plus a ton of them had 0 people in their family pushing them for college, so I agree with these exclusive scholarships that only serve to encourage non-white groups to stop being statistically poorer on average. "Either we all get to park in the handicapped spot or no one does" - codemonk & endtherapture
#36
I think a big reason for this is due to the way school systems are set up. The vast majority of my teachers have been female, and talking to a lot of guys I grew up with at school who didn't go to uni, they hated schooling and felt like they weren't really cared about. Boys and girls are different, and respond to different teaching methods, there's no right or wrong way, but there are differences. A lot of the guys I know were always in trouble at school, they were bored a lot of the time and had way too much energy with no real outlet for it. They're not thick, or even troublesome, but they were punished all the same because they couldn't sit still for 2 hours straight

so they just wanted out as soon as possible
Eat your pheasant
Drink your wine
Your days are numbered, bourgeois swine!
#37
Maybe if our society wasn't showing young men it is cool to be a thug, lowlife, pimp, womanizer, sports athlete, deadbeat, anti-authority lunatic then they might not be so "disadvantaged."

Maybe if our society was promoting young men to be critical thinkers, scientists, scholars, respectful, self-respecting, personally accountable, contributing members of society then we wouldn't have to worry about this kind of crap.

Really it all comes down to the environment you were raised in on top of being personally accountable. Very few people can outgrow their environment and those who do are often very driven, self accountable people.
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

Quote by lolmnt
PC police strike again


If you have a computer related question, ask here!

Official Mayor of the Computer Thread
#38
Quote by Bladez22
I think a big reason for this is due to the way school systems are set up. The vast majority of my teachers have been female, and talking to a lot of guys I grew up with at school who didn't go to uni, they hated schooling and felt like they weren't really cared about. Boys and girls are different, and respond to different teaching methods, there's no right or wrong way, but there are differences. A lot of the guys I know were always in trouble at school, they were bored a lot of the time and had way too much energy with no real outlet for it. They're not thick, or even troublesome, but they were punished all the same because they couldn't sit still for 2 hours straight

so they just wanted out as soon as possible


Yay someone from the UK education system. Good points that I agree with. We are a pretty female dominated system up until higher education begins which is interesting. I feel a lot of guys can definitely get left behind in the system and maybe guys need a different system to engage them more at the age where they are very impatient and can’t focus well.

I remember having a chat with my feminist mate who said that the education system is unfair – on girls! Because boys are better at exams, and girls at coursework, so we need to do less exams and more coursework to give girls a fairer chance – even though they are outperforming us already.

It was an interesting thing to hear to say the least.
#39
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Yay someone from the UK education system. Good points that I agree with. We are a pretty female dominated system up until higher education begins which is interesting. I feel a lot of guys can definitely get left behind in the system and maybe guys need a different system to engage them more at the age where they are very impatient and can’t focus well.

I remember having a chat with my feminist mate who said that the education system is unfair – on girls! Because boys are better at exams, and girls at coursework, so we need to do less exams and more coursework to give girls a fairer chance – even though they are outperforming us already.

It was an interesting thing to hear to say the least.


I've done a lot of both exams and coursework, both are bullshit, with coursework being more so because everyone just copies each other making the whole grading system redundant

Its also really interesting that when I went to further education, HS equivalent I think (BTEC instead of A levels), we had mostly male teachers teaching a mostly male class (engineering, what do you expect lol) and everyone seemed a lot happier. They let us go get coffee or a drink, or just wander about after about 50 minutes of sitting doing work, and allowed us to joke/mess about within reason, and we got so much more work done with them than when we had a female teacher we had to be all calm with

Although we did have a female teacher who was amazing too
Eat your pheasant
Drink your wine
Your days are numbered, bourgeois swine!
Page 1 of 2