#1
Okay people. I wake up this morning to a shit storm on facebook about the Turkey and Greece football (soccer) game and the Turkish people "booing and chanting" during the moment of silence. All I am reading is backlash against the Turkish people and that they are supporting ISIS by doing so. But something didn't seem right. I would expect this out of many middle eastern countries and not be surprised, but Turkey, while having a controversial history, is still one of the most moderate Muslim states. They have even been considered for NATO a few times I think.

Anyway... it was impossible to find anything on Google regarding this that wasn't polarized by the recent events. Then I started using Googles advanced search functions. I set my search date from the year 2000 to Novembers 15th, a date well before the football match. I tried a few things like "Turkish chanting at football games," "Turkish saying allha akbar(sp) soccer," and a few other things. Honestly nothing. I did another current day search, and i found a soccer blog here: http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/an-explanation-for-why-turkey-fans-appeared-to-boo-minutes-silence-for-paris-attack-victims/

Now this is a just a blog that could have been written in response due to the nature of events, but I was going to dig further. I noticed the phrase “Şehitler ölmez, vatan bölünmez” which translates to “Martyrs, they do not die, homeland is indivisible.” The explanation that follows you can read for yourself, but it in no way favors ISIS at all. But I dug further and went back to my pre 11/15 search.

I searched "Turkish chanting Şehitler ölmez, vatan bölünmez at soccer games" and while there were no real news articles on this, what I did find was very interesting and supported the claims made on the soccer blog. The Turkish people have been using this chat for a long time. One blog links it being said back in 2011 at a European match. Another in October 2014, Feb 2012.

Here is a Reddit thread from a match with Iceland from a month ago. It also further explains the meaning behind the chant: https://www.reddit.com/comments/3ombta

March, 2105: http://ankarafootball.blogspot.com/2015_03_01_archive.html

I can't read whatever this language is, but it is linked back to 2013: http://www.turkcespiker.com/pes-2013-3-buyukler-sahaya-giris-ve-gol-muzikleri-paketi

Here is the point: Turkish football fans have a thing that they do after tragic events. To most people a moment of silence is just that, a moment of silence to reflect. However, if there is anything we know about football fans, it is that they often go to extremes to get their point across. The point these fans were trying to make is that they supported Paris in their struggle. That they were sympathetic to what had happened. The people were actually showing their support for Paris and not ISIS.

Had this been any other middle eastern/Muslim country, I wouldn't have bothered to dig as far as I did. But this is Turkey, a secular ally to the west. Just because you don't understand the meaning behind the actions of the fans, doesn't mean you can interpret it as one of hostilities. You are not THINKING CRITICALLY about this situation at all.
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

Quote by lolmnt
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#2
Assuming what you've researched and presented is correct, well done.

I CBA to check it myself...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#3
Yeah I read that rather than stay silent they chant for the fallen or something. Couldnt tell you whether or not that is actually true though.
The plan was to drink until the pain over.
But what's worse, the pain or the hangover?
Who am I? I'm a titan so be expectin' a clash.
#4
Turkey is in NATO, what they've been considered for and denied is EU membership.

But this is Turkey, a secular ally to the west.

Not exactly. They are allies, you're correct, but the gov't is islamist and was a key source of funding in ISIS's early days.


As Arby said, that's very well researched. Props. They were just using a different mode of expression.
#5
Were they not chanting 'Allahu Akbar' as well though (forgive the spelling)?

Unless that's some kind of way of them saying that they believe in Islam and what ISIS have done is not Islam. But I don't know, what I heard sounded a lot more like negative booing and whistling than it did united, supportive defiance against them.

EDIT: Reading various social media commentaries, it would appear that they did this because ISIS have killed many Turkish people with their attacks too, but there were no worldwide outcries about this or any silences held in subsequent international matches. Fair enough, it still seems awfully disrespectful and even spiteful to react in the way they did.
Last edited by matt bickerton at Nov 18, 2015,
#6
Quote by matt bickerton
Were they not chanting 'Allahu Akbar' as well though (forgive the spelling)?


Even if they were that's hardly damning, given it's one of the most common religious phrases among Muslims.

Would anyone have considered it unusual or supportive of the 1996 Olympic Bomber if Christians had chanted "Praise G_D" after his attack? I doubt it.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Nov 18, 2015,
#7
Quote by matt bickerton
Were they not chanting 'Allahu Akbar' as well though (forgive the spelling)?

Unless that's some kind of way of them saying that they believe in Islam and what ISIS have done is not Islam. But I don't know, what I heard sounded a lot more like negative booing and whistling than it did united, supportive defiance against them.

EDIT: Reading various social media commentaries, it would appear that they did this because ISIS have killed many Turkish people with their attacks too, but there were no worldwide outcries about this or any silences held in subsequent international matches. Fair enough, it still seems awfully disrespectful and even spiteful to react in the way they did.

Wait, really? There have been ISIS attacks in Turkey? When was this?
#8
Quote by Arby911
Even if they were that's hardly damning, given it's one of the most common religious phrases among Muslims.

Would anyone have considered it unusual or supportive of the 1996 Olympic Bomber if Christians had chanted "Praise G_D" after his attack? I doubt it.
Fair point, but I still stand by the fact it sounded more negative than it did supportive.
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Wait, really? There have been ISIS attacks in Turkey? When was this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Ankara_bombings
#10
Quote by Arby911
Assuming what you've researched and presented is correct, well done.

I CBA to check it myself...


I know we have disagreed on things in the past, but it is actually reassuring to see words of support from you. All I am asking people to do in this case is give the benefit of the doubt on this one very specific situation.

Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Turkey is in NATO, what they've been considered for and denied is EU membership.


Not exactly. They are allies, you're correct, but the gov't is islamist and was a key source of funding in ISIS's early days.


As Arby said, that's very well researched. Props. They were just using a different mode of expression.


I figured I messed up some of those details, and thanks for pointing out the corrections. I was trying to keep the focus on what was actually happening, not based on fear mongering.
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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#11
There have been no attacks in Turkey to date that have been claimed by IS. Booing is recognised worldwide as a show of displeasure or disagreement, to boo during the silence for victims of Paris killings, whatever the reason, was only going to be taken as being against the 'silence' and therefore pro IS. As much as the rest of the world would like to believe the extremists are a minority of Islam, perhaps the evidence is pointing otherwise?
#12
Quote by whirlpool
As much as the rest of the world would like to believe the extremists are a minority of Islam, perhaps the evidence is pointing otherwise?


Well.. Probably not tho
The plan was to drink until the pain over.
But what's worse, the pain or the hangover?
Who am I? I'm a titan so be expectin' a clash.
#13
Quote by SMH07
Well.. Probably not tho

Yes I actually think you're right. I KNOW I hope you're right.
#14
Quote by whirlpool
There have been no attacks in Turkey to date that have been claimed by IS. Booing is recognised worldwide as a show of displeasure or disagreement, to boo during the silence for victims of Paris killings, whatever the reason, was only going to be taken as being against the 'silence' and therefore pro IS. As much as the rest of the world would like to believe the extremists are a minority of Islam, perhaps the evidence is pointing otherwise?


This was never a cry or rally that occurred because of ISIS attacks. This was a tradition started after other terrorist attacks occurred in their country. Doesn't matter who did it. And I might agree with you if the Turkish people haven't been doing this since 2010 and likely even earlier. This has been done many times at other sports event after any terrorist attack and it is only this time in which the media is clinging to it with ANY source of fact checking, even less so than usual.

You can not look at this situation with your ideology in mind. It is different, it is unusual, and it is not what most people are use to, but the evidence is showing that this was just the people of Turkeys way of showing their support for France. Unconventional, yes. Easy to misinterpret, also yes. Easy to understand the motives behind it if you spend 5 min doing a proper google search, again yes.

The sooner we let critical thinking and thought drive our reactions to events, the sooner we can stop being over emotional babies about the situation. THINK CRITICALLY.
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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