#1
I pretty much got slayed last time I did this, but my defense is that this helps me learn.

On this song, there is a capo on fourth, but only two chords are"translated", could anyone please help me translate the rest.
I cant even find G#7 on the transposition chart.

So,
F# = D
C# = A
G#7 = ?
A#m = ?
#3
Quote by TobusRex
Wow, so many sharps.


See, I can't even tell if your being sarcastic there. That is the extent of my ignorance...
#4
Quote by AnrBjotk
See, I can't even tell if your being sarcastic there. That is the extent of my ignorance...


Haha...I'm being legit. I looked at your link. Every note was a sharp

I'm more of a noob than you, bro
#5
Quote by AnrBjotk
I pretty much got slayed last time I did this, but my defense is that this helps me learn.

On this song, there is a capo on fourth, but only two chords are"translated", could anyone please help me translate the rest.
I cant even find G#7 on the transposition chart.

So,
F# = D
C# = A
G#7 = ?
A#m = ?


OK "G#7" is going to be an E shape

Because "A# minor IS already a barre chord (@ 6th fret Em voice), you just play it as it stands. It takes the position that F# minor would in the key of A with open chord voices.

The chord names are arrived at by virtue of a transposition key signature. For purposes of writing the key out on the musical staff, this key would actually use the key signature "Gb". Gb has 5 flats, whereas "A# would have 7 sharps with one or 2 of them double sharps. (It gives you less stuff to write and the key signature is said to be "enharmonically determined").

The song is in the key of A by virtue of the shapes being used (A, D, E, & F#m). The actual chord intervals of the song are the same as something much more familiar, G, C, D, & Em... Or I, IV, V, vi < Don't worry too much about that nomenclature. It will become familiar as you absorb a bit more musical theory.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 19, 2015,
#6
Quote by Captaincranky
OK "G#7" is going to be an E shape

Because "A# minor IS already a barre chord (@ 6th fret Em voice), you just play it as it stands. It takes the position that F# minor would in the key of A with open chord voices.

The chord names are derived at by virtue of a transposition key signature. For purposes of writing the key out on the musical staff, this key would actually use the key signature "Gb". Gb has 5 flats, whereas "A# would have 7 sharps with one or 2 of them double sharps. (It gives you less stuff to write and the key signature is said to be "enharmonically determined").

The song is in the key of A by virtue of the shapes being used (A, D, E, & F#m). The actual chord intervals of the song are the same as something much more familiar, G, C, D, & Em... Or I, IV, V, vi < Don't worry too much about that nomenclature. It will become familiar as you absorb a bit more musical theory.


I'm getting a headache trying to understand this.

If A# is supposed to be barred at 6th, does that mean its capo on 4th and then barre on 6th?
And exactly what chords do A, D, E and F#m related to in the original configuaration?
#7
Quote by AnrBjotk
I'm getting a headache trying to understand this.

If A# is supposed to be barred at 6th, does that mean its capo on 4th and then barre on 6th?
And exactly what chords do A, D, E and F#m related to in the original configuaration?


NO! in relation to the capo it's on the "2nd fret".

Just picture a song in A major. You have A, D, E, & F#m. Just use those chords as open shapes, (F#m is a barre though), while basically ignoring the capo.

I have other explanations possible via "the chromatic scale". I'm afraid were I to go there, it's liable to make your confusion worse.

So, "A#m" is going to be F#m, let's leave it at that. Are you good now?
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 19, 2015,
#8
Quote by Captaincranky
NO! in relation to the capo it's on the "2nd fret".

Just picture a song in A major. You have A, D, E, & F#m. Just use those chords as open shapes, (F#m is a barre though), while basically ignoring the capo.

I have other explanations possible via "the chromatic scale". I'm afraid were I to go there, it's liable to make your confusion worse.

So, "A#m" is going to be F#m, let's leave it at that. Are you good now?


Yes... more or less. Or less than more, but more or less. Of course, it means I cant play the bugger with that nasty barre chord, but I'm closer now at lest. I'll dedicate the next ten years to mastering the barre and get back to you
#9
Quote by AnrBjotk
Yes... more or less. Or less than more, but more or less. Of course, it means I cant play the bugger with that nasty barre chord, but I'm closer now at lest. I'll dedicate the next ten years to mastering the barre and get back to you

Well, I seriously doubt if you put you mind to it, it will take anywhere near ten years to master the barre. Probably less than a tenth of that.

If the F#m barre is an issue for now, why not just put the capo on the 6th fret, and play the song in G?

Moving the capo up 2 frets changes the "D shape" to "C", the "E shape" to "D", & the "A shape" to "G", and that dreaded F#m barre chord, to Em. What could be simpler?

Now are we good?
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 19, 2015,
#10
Quote by Captaincranky
Well, I seriously doubt if you put you mind to it, it will take anywhere near ten years to master the barre. Probably less than a tenth of that.

If the F#m barre is an issue for now, why not just put the capo on the 6th fret, and play the song in G?


Maybe... I've been trying for about a year with no success. I'v been playing an F chord with just the E string pressed on the first fret - which works for most songs I play ayway.

As for playing it in G: This is getting embarrassing. I can feel you are feding me gold nuggets of wisdom, but they're just passing over my head. I don't know what playing it in G means; I can figure out what chords are in the key of G through google - but not in which order...
I'm sorry.
#11
Moving the capo up 2 frets changes the "D shape" to "C", the "E shape" to "D", & the "A shape" to "G", and that dreaded F#m barre chord, to Em. What could be simpler?

Now are we good?


I think so... yes.
#12
Quote by AnrBjotk
...[ ]...As for playing it in G: This is getting embarrassing. I can feel you are feding me gold nuggets of wisdom, but they're just passing over my head. I don't know what playing it in G means; I can figure out what chords are in the key of G through google - but not in which order...
I'm sorry.
I did give you the shape substitutions.

We'll try it another way.

Playing in "G", (capo on the 6th fret)

F# equals C

C# equals G

G#7 equals D

A#m equals Em

All of those chord shapes are in relation to the capo (@ 6th fret) You should be able to read the chords off the song page. I marked the chord names as they appear on the tab, in bold.

Now are we good?
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 19, 2015,
#13
Quote by Captaincranky
I did give you the shape substitutions.

We'll try it another way.

Playing in "G", (capo on the 6th fret)

F# equals C

C# equals G

G#7 equals D

A#m equals Em

All of those chord shapes are in relation to the capo (@ 6th fret) You should be able to read the chords off the song page. I marked the chord names as they appear on the tab, in bold.

Now are we good?


Could you dumb it down a little?

Just kidding. This is perfect. Just what I needed. Cheers. Now doesnt it feel good to help those less fortunate than you?
#14
Quote by AnrBjotk
Could you dumb it down a little?

Just kidding. This is perfect. Just what I needed. Cheers. Now doesnt it feel good to help those less fortunate than you?
It really does, but I probably shouldn't admit to it, I have a reputation to uphold...
#15
(whispering: one last thing: what's the G (without sharp)? forgot that one...)
#16
Are you trying to keep the same original chords, and figure out how to create these original chords? Or are you trying to understand what the capo does when you play the same chord shapes as you did without a capo (e.g playing the "E" shape (I hate that expression)) when you have the capo on the 3rd fret?
#17
Quote by AnrBjotk
(whispering: one last thing: what's the G (without sharp)? forgot that one...)
If both chords G and G# are present in the song sheet, "G" would be C#. (A problem for you, I know. We can talk about it more later).

You would be playing a chromatic step progression. Some songs have things like that in them.

As an example, listen to the Beatles, "Do You Want to Know a Secret". It has a descending chromatic riff, which goes Gm7, F#m7, Fm7. And yes, it happens to be 3 full barre chords...
#19
I just wanna play the damn song for my own benefit. Whatever works. Capo on 6th makes it sound really really off, but close enough.

I understand that a capo changes the chord structure etc.

But C# is barre on only three strings, right? Even I can do that...
#20
Okay, I really am trying here. Here is another song . This one has a capo on 2nd fret. It says that E = D. Am I waay off in thinking that that means that Emaj7 then becomes Dmaj7? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

(and: what does it mean when a tab says Emaj7/D#? Is that one chord sliding into another? Or choose either?)
#21
Quote by AnrBjotk
Okay, I really am trying here. Here is another song . This one has a capo on 2nd fret. It says that E = D. Am I waay off in thinking that that means that Emaj7 then becomes Dmaj7? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

(and: what does it mean when a tab says Emaj7/D#? Is that one chord sliding into another? Or choose either?)
I only see one chord in the song. The rest of the "nonsense" that follows, are what we call "slash chords", which simply means that there is a different note than the "root" (D) in the bass.

As for learning the song, you're going to have to learn the actual fret board positions and names of the notes to the right of the "slash".

The song involves re-fingering the walking bass line, while maintaining as much as possible of the original "D major open chord" held.

Unfortunately, this song does require some theoretical knowledge, since the slash chord "E/D#" IS actually "Emaj7", (3rd inversion).

The note to the right of the "slash", and how it affects the name of the chord, leads to the ability to identify the chord through more traditional methodology, such as "E7", Emaj7, E6, E13, and so forth.

But, to establish the "absolute value" of the note, it would have to be through either reading it off traditional sheet music, or from 6 string guitar "tab" notation. The "Slash chord", is a very convenient way to establish the name of the lowest note in a chord, if it differs from the root. ("root" = name of chord).
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 20, 2015,
#22
Quote by AnrBjotk
I just wanna play the damn song for my own benefit.

Which isn't going to happen if you have to come ask how every time you find a song you like. It's easy enough to learn these things, and they'll save a lot of time.

In the time since you posted this thread, you could have learned how to construct basic triads and done the math for yourself... "for own you benefit", if you will.
#23
Quote by cdgraves
Which isn't going to happen if you have to come ask how every time you find a song you like. It's easy enough to learn these things, and they'll save a lot of time.

In the time since you posted this thread, you could have learned how to construct basic triads and done the math for yourself... "for own you benefit", if you will.


And where can I learn it?
#25
Quote by AnrBjotk
I just wanna play the damn song for my own benefit. Whatever works. Capo on 6th makes it sound really really off, but close enough.

I understand that a capo changes the chord structure etc.

But C# is barre on only three strings, right? Even I can do that...


AnrtBjotk,

A Capo absolutely does NOT change chord structure.

Without a capo, and not holding down a string yourself, then the string vibrates between the nut at one end, and the saddle piece at the other. When YOU hold down the string at some position, YOU are making the string come in contact with the fret in front of your finger, to shorten the string, and hence make the pitch higher.

You can think of the nut as the zero'th fret, or as an imaginary capo.

When you play ANY shape on the guitar, and then slide that shape horizinotally along the neck, without changing the shape, the chord structure remains identical (same chord type ... just different pitches involved, but same type).

Hence barre chords ... if you move an "E shape" (so wrong, this term), up one fret, you have to also "move up" the open string pitches involved (the bass and top E) by one fret ... which physically is accomplised by the barre. That barre is causing the strings to contact the first fret now, rather than the nut. Of course, any additional fretting (the rest of the shape) just holds down the strings on the frets wherever fingers are behind.

You still have a major triad (same structure), but now its F major triad, not E.

If you play a barre behind the N'th fret (N >= 1), and play any of the "open chord" shapes you know, on top of that barre, then the chord type stays the same, but the pitch name will "go up" by N semitones.

E.g. open C. play a barre at the 3rd fret, so you get

(3) 6 5 3 4 3.

The pitch has gone up 3 semitones ...

C C#/Db D D#/Eb E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab A A#/Bb B C ...

So, now this is a D# major triad (or Eb major triad).

That's all there is to it. This will work for any shape, anywhere.

Dmaj7 up 3 semitones (gone from open Dmaj7 to barre at 3rd fret) becomes F maj7

(D -> D# -> E -> F)
Last edited by jerrykramskoy at Nov 21, 2015,