#1
I'm new to guitar and wanting to play mostly blues/southern rock/blues rock. I currently have an Epiphone SG G400 pro and an Orange Crush12 1x6 12watt amp. The amp is plenty loud and sounds pretty warm and clean but its very basic, only volume,gain,treble,mid,bass, and overdrive controls, no reverb... cant get decent distortion, something is just missing.

I was at the guitar shop tonight that I bought the Orange amp from and mentioned that my next purchase would be another amp. The owner said since I've only had the Orange amp for 5 weeks he would give me back 100% ($100)of my money if I wanted to purchase another amp from him. He has a small shop and not a lot of amps to choose from, basically I could get:

Orange Crush 20rt - $80 after trade, has 1x8, 20 watts, has reverb, dirty & clean channels, built in tuner, I did not plug in and play this amp

Vox VT20+, $80 after trade, 1x8 , 20 watts, 33 amp modes, 25 built in effects, 99 preset programs.. all of this was a bit overwhelming but I only got to play on it for about 5 minutes... but I couldn't help but think, no matter what setting I had it on, they all just sounded very digital, but this amp gets pretty decent reviews online.

Used Fender Mustang 3- $200 after trade, Way too loud for my home practice amp, again seems complicated and sounded very digital,also more money than I would want to spend for the sound it put out.

I saw a Line6 amp, but not sure of the specs or price he wants for it.


I think I would rather have a tube amp something like a Fender Blues jr or blues deluxe (he has neither in his store) but I'm not sure if they would be too powerful for a bedroom practice amp, also being a new player a little nervous about dropping that kind of cash on an amp before I can even play a song. Also since he will give me back ALL my money its kinda hard not to take advantage and trade up.

So, what do you guys think? Should I trade up? If so, which one? Or should I wait for a blues jr?

Thanks
#2
look for a vypyr tube 60 (or 120) combo.

you should be able to find one for ~$300 USD. they are modeling, but have a tube power section, and are a huge leap ahead of any modeling amps that fender and vox are putting out ATM.

one thing i just remembered though is that vox is putting out a brand new valvetronix. i haven't tried one, but the demos sound REALLY good.
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#3
also i would look at a peavey classic 30/50/delta blues, etc. they are awesome.

the blues jr.s are alright. nothing amazing. i would rather have a peavey calssic 30.

the hot rod deluxes have TERRIBLE od channels, but the cleans are pretty damn nice. they are a good pedal platform.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


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nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#4
First decide if you want Brit crunch or Fender tone, then focus on those brands. For the music you mentioned a Blues Jr, Fender Super Champ X2, Vox AC15, Laney Cub, would all work pretty well. Simple controls, great tone. They cost more than what you have now but you will find some great stuff in there.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#5
I probably don't know the correct tone terminology but I'm just looking for a good all around amp for a beginner.. Like, I said I'm a beginner, just started 5 weeks ago and I cant play anything other than sliding pentatonic scales right now and a few riffs like smoke on the water, 7 nation army and wild thing. However, I love the glassy tone of the Allman Bros, the super clean tone of BB king, the fuzzed out tone of the early Black Keys, the distortion of 90's alternative and whatever the tone is that Stevie Ray Vaughn, johhny Lang and Marcus King has I like.
#6
Quote by bevans555
I probably don't know the correct tone terminology but I'm just looking for a good all around amp for a beginner.. Like, I said I'm a beginner, just started 5 weeks ago and I cant play anything other than sliding pentatonic scales right now and a few riffs like smoke on the water, 7 nation army and wild thing. However, I love the glassy tone of the Allman Bros, the super clean tone of BB king, the fuzzed out tone of the early Black Keys, the distortion of 90's alternative and whatever the tone is that Stevie Ray Vaughn, johhny Lang and Marcus King has I like.


Super Champ covers all of that pretty well and doesn't cost much. It is my go to practice amp. Go check one out and see if you agree.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#7
Quote by Cajundaddy
Super Champ covers all of that pretty well and doesn't cost much. It is my go to practice amp. Go check one out and see if you agree.


+3.1415 they are pretty good for the money.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
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2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#8
I've been using a 1974 Fender Champ as my go to practice amp for 25 years, love it. Straight tube amp, Volume Bass and Treble, 6 watts, plenty loud for practice, I usually don't crank it past 4 or 5. Some of the amps suggested here will get WAY louder...Peavey Classic 30 is a 30 watt tube amp, loud enough to play most clubs. I've seen them a lot of times onstage and played a few. Not exactly a bedroom practice amp. Unless you have a lot of sound insulation so the neighbors won't scream...My mother can hear the Champ in her living room over 100 feet away if I crank it. That's 6 watts...I can't crank the 15 watt Fender Pro Jr at all, 3 or 4 and she can hear it well. Classic 30, forget it...

I don't know much about the Super Champ, the reviews I've read are pretty good.

Another idea though, if you like the clean sound you have now, get a distortion or overdrive pedal. That's how I use the Champ at home, I plug in either my Marshall Bluesbreaker overdrive or Ibanez SD 9 distortion. I can do the same if I use the Super Reverb at low volume, it still gets a good sound and good tone at bedroom volumes, and a pedal will give me anything else I want.

For the SRV, Allman Bros and BB King, SRV used Fender tube amps a lot, Duanne Allman used a Bandmaster I think, Derek Trucks uses a 65 Super Reverb, BB King was using a Lab Series amp when I saw him around 10 years ago. Not sure which one, I wasn't close enough but it looked like a 212 combo. Once I get the Super Reverb volume past about 5 I Can peg those sounds, no pedals, use the overdrive as a clean boost for leads and it works perfect. (onstage not bedroom). The blues guys you listed were usually playing tube amps at high volume, a big part of the sound you hear is power tube distortion, which is completely different from preamp section gain/distortion. That's where the great sustain and "feel" of a tube amp comes into play, and a bit of natural compression.

At onstage club volume, usually cranked to 8 or higher, my Super Reverb responds really well to the way I play. Play light and it's clean, nice sounding, has good sustain, beat the crap out of the guitar and it gets loud, dirty and in your face. Most of the time even at low volume I do very little adjusting of the volume pedal, I mostly adjust my playing style. You can get the same at bedroom practice volumes, but not as pronounced. Just use a clean amp and a pedal. And you can switch between sounds instantly. Check and see if the store you're dealing with has some items on consignment, many do, shop around a little and you might find a good pedal for $50 or less. I usually see $50 to $100 for most used pedals.

I also check at yard sales and flea markets, that's where I got almost all my effects. The Marshall Bluesbreaker was $5 at a flea market, Fender Champ $8 with no tubes or speaker, Volume pedal $2 I think...shop around a little, check newspaper want ads, pawn shops, resale shops even have some finds now and then. One of my mic stands was $5 at a resale shop, I've used it for 30 years.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#9
Ok, I called guitar center and they don't have any super champ xd's in stock but can get me a used one for around $200-$250, they will also give $60 trade in credit for my amp. Blind buy and a little more than I want to spend right now, but, if it's worth it in the long run I would do it.

I've also looked at YouTube demos of the orange crush 20rt and like the sound a lot. Very clean tones and the dirty channel sounds very nice too, also suppose to take pedals well. And would only cost me about $80 out of pocket. Just not sure if this works good for all the types of music that I plan on playing.

The peavey classic 30 also sounds amazing from what I've seen on YouTube but after checking CL in all my surrounding cities, they average about $400-$450 used which is around the same price as the fender blues Jr. Is going for around here, Which is out of my price range for the skill stage that I'm at now.

I'm thinking hard between the fender super champ xd and the orange crush 20rt.

Can anyone tell me about first hand experience with both the orange and fender? Is the fender worth(tone wise) twice as much as the orange? Also I love the sound of tube amps and the fender is a 15 watt tube amp, will this be too much for a home/bedroom/practice amp or would it be perfect?

Thanks
#10
Quote by bevans555
Ok, I called guitar center and they don't have any super champ xd's in stock but can get me a used one for around $200-$250, they will also give $60 trade in credit for my amp. Blind buy and a little more than I want to spend right now, but, if it's worth it in the long run I would do it.

I've also looked at YouTube demos of the orange crush 20rt and like the sound a lot. Very clean tones and the dirty channel sounds very nice too, also suppose to take pedals well. And would only cost me about $80 out of pocket. Just not sure if this works good for all the types of music that I plan on playing.

The peavey classic 30 also sounds amazing from what I've seen on YouTube but after checking CL in all my surrounding cities, they average about $400-$450 used which is around the same price as the fender blues Jr. Is going for around here, Which is out of my price range for the skill stage that I'm at now.

I'm thinking hard between the fender super champ xd and the orange crush 20rt.

Can anyone tell me about first hand experience with both the orange and fender? Is the fender worth(tone wise) twice as much as the orange? Also I love the sound of tube amps and the fender is a 15 watt tube amp, will this be too much for a home/bedroom/practice amp or would it be perfect?

Thanks


Yes, the Fender Super Champ is a pretty sweet practice amp that works great at low bedroom volumes. It specializes in vintage tones like Clapton, Jimi, SRV, Surf, Gilmour, Mike Campbell, Jeff Beck, Robben Ford, and others of that style. Not a great choice for Metallica or Doom Thrash Metal.

The Orange Crush is a beginner practice amp the sounds ok at first, does heavier stuff, but wears on my ears quickly. It is well below my standards for guitar tone and I would not own one.

Another low cost amp worth a look is the Roland Cube 30. Really musical tone from a SS amp and a worthy bedroom practice amp.

Ignore wattage ratings as they are irrelevant to a BR player. Any of these amps will work fine at low volume so focus on tone first, price second, and bells & whistles last. When in doubt, ignore internet advice and go play through a few amps. Trust your ears.

A little taste of my favorite low cost BR practice amp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGeWr6dHvFk
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Nov 20, 2015,
#11
Thanks for the replies.. Have decided against the orange, and will definitely be getting a fender tube amp... My stores don't have any super champ xd in stock but they do have the super champ x2... Been listening to both on YouTube and love the tones.. Thanks for the recommendations.. Now have to decide between paying more and leaving with the x2 today or saving some cash and waiting on a used xd.
#12
The X2 is the updated model. If it means anything to you, the X2 has the USB port where you can use the Fender Fuse Software. I don't believe the XD had that feature. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
#13
I'm a bit sceptical that this is a true tube amp. Looks to me like it is a solid state modeling with tube for color in the preamp section, and maybe a tube power stage? By definition USB and amp modeling selection seems counterintuitive to true tube amp.

For example it is two channel and my Marshall 2 channel has 4 preamp tubes, this one has 1. My single channel tube amps all have at least 2 preamp tubes.

Here's the description if anyone else wants to see it:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/fender-super-champ-x2-15w-1x10-tube-guitar-combo-amp#productDetail


It doesn't mean that it is a bad amp but I think they're being very sneaky about what they are really selling here, including the vintage packaging.
Last edited by diabolical at Nov 20, 2015,
#14
Quote by diabolical
I'm a bit sceptical that this is a true tube amp. Looks to me like it is a solid state modeling with tube for color in the preamp section, and maybe a tube power stage? By definition USB and amp modeling selection seems counterintuitive to true tube amp.

For example it is two channel and my Marshall 2 channel has 4 preamp tubes, this one has 1. My single channel tube amps all have at least 2 preamp tubes.

Here's the description if anyone else wants to see it:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/fender-super-champ-x2-15w-1x10-tube-guitar-combo-amp#productDetail


It doesn't mean that it is a bad amp but I think they're being very sneaky about what they are really selling here, including the vintage packaging.


The Super Champ XD is a hybrid amp with digital modeling, DSPs, and tube output. Of course how they get there doesn't matter at all to a player because the amp accepts pedals just like a tube amp and sounds just like my old Blackface 64 Princeton Reverb on the clean channel. On the Voice channel it sounds like a pushed Tweed Deluxe, or a Blackface, or a Vox AC15, or a Bluesbreaker combo, or a Plexi. That is the goal: "sounds great for less $$" and they pulled it off well IMO. Only the PTP, All-tube-or-die, cork sniffers will shun it. The rest of us trust our ears and the ears don't lie. For $250 used it's a home run for vintage guitar tone in a small package. Don't like it? Find a nice old Fender Blackface for $1k and party on.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Nov 20, 2015,
#15
Well...it is not neccesary to go to $1000 to find a good tube amp.

I can list a few off the top of my head that go around $400 or less used, so price-wise it is actually very close. If you like it - fine. I bought a Fender Princeton 112 solid state a while back and it is still a keeper, it is just the deceptive marketing that gets me going.

Not sure how this will do the Blackface sound as for that you'd need the big speakers and the cranking power. The guy that hosts our open blues jams has it and that amp has to be cranked to work right. This little Fender with the small speaker - not sure it can really cut that sound, so let's jsut say I am a touch skeptical.

Some tube amps that could be had around same price used:
Vox AC15
Orange Tiny Terror combo
Marshall Class5 combo (real Bluesbreaker amp)
Peavey Valveking mkI maybe even MkII
Fender Blues Jr
Peavey Classic30
Ampeg Jet II
Carvin Vintage 33 or other tweed
Laney LC15
Laney Cub

...and the list goes on...
Last edited by diabolical at Nov 20, 2015,
#16
Quote by diabolical
Well...it is not neccesary to go to $1000 to find a good tube amp.

I can list a few off the top of my head that go around $400 or less used, so price-wise it is actually very close. If you like it - fine. I bought a Fender Princeton 112 solid state a while back and it is still a keeper, it is just the deceptive marketing that gets me going.

Not sure how this will do the Blackface sound as for that you'd need the big speakers and the cranking power. The guy that hosts our open blues jams has it and that amp has to be cranked to work right. This little Fender with the small speaker - not sure it can really cut that sound, so let's jsut say I am a touch skeptical.

Some tube amps that could be had around same price used:
Vox AC15
Orange Tiny Terror combo
Marshall Class5 combo (real Bluesbreaker amp)
Peavey Valveking mkI maybe even MkII
Fender Blues Jr
Peavey Classic30
Ampeg Jet II
Carvin Vintage 33 or other tweed
Laney LC15
Laney Cub

...and the list goes on...


Several of those were mentioned earlier and the TS said they were more than he wants to spend. Most go for $400+ used. I enjoy both and don't see anything deceptive about the SCXD. It is what it is, and that is surprisingly good vintage tone on the cheap.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Fender/Guitar-Amplifiers.gc?N=1085+1086&Ne=16353&Ntt=tube+amp&postalCode=90001&radius=100#narrowSideBar
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Nov 20, 2015,
#17
I pulled the trigger and ended up buying a new Fender Super Champ X2. Got a GREAT deal on it!!

Talked to guitar center this morning and was told I would get $60 trade credit for my orange but when I got there I found out the guy told me wrong... they sell it for $60 and said they could only give me $36 trade credit, I left but decided to go back and just trade it. After talking with the salesman (great dude, btw), he ended up bumping the trade credit to $45. We tried to order the SCXD but the computer kept glitching and the order would not go through. He then called the store to see if they would drop the price, since I wasn't happy about the shipping cost and to also try and order it from them, after 10 minutes on hold he hung up and tried to adjust the price and order it on his computer again, still didn't work. I then tried to order on my phone and it was saying the product was no longer available.

So the salesman went above and beyond and discounted me a brand spanking new $379.99 Super Champ X2 all the way down to $273.00... After my $45 trade credit and sales tax I was only out of pocket $247.00.. So I basically got a brand new SCX2 for about the same price as a used SCXD would have been after shipping.. They were out of stock but I should have my new amp in 3-4 days.

I will definitely be a GC customer from now on, as long as they keep customer service like that guy. We spent about an hour trying to order the used model before he hooked me up with the new one.

Thanks again for all the comments and recommendations for my amp, cant wait to play it!
#18
I hope you got that employee's name or his business card at try to work with him each time. While I have indeed gotten good service at GC, I know (from shopping at their several stores in my area) that the good ones who stick around are on the rarer side.

All that said...congrats on the new amp! Got any pix?
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#19
Yea, I got his name and will try and exclusively deal with him from now on. He actually recently got his degree in music and teaches guitar on the side( at half the price GC charges) and I'm going to take a few lessons from him in January.

No pics yet because they had to order the amp, but when it gets delivered in a few days I'll post a couple pics.
Last edited by bevans555 at Nov 21, 2015,
#21
Quote by pinheadslts75
If you just want a living room amp, I tend to like the Orange Crush the best.


I was never fond of the orange crush series. the only small living room SS amps i would consider would be a vypyr or a valvetronix.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#22
Update: Just picked my SCX2 and thought I would post a couple pics.


Sorry, not sure how to insert the images.
Attachments:
IMG_0474.JPG
IMG_0475.JPG
Last edited by bevans555 at Nov 25, 2015,