#1
I've posted this in the Guitar Setup thread, but still no solution yet.

Quote by aozen
Hi all, so during the initial set up on this guitar that I've bought a few days ago, I had a truss rod problem, after just 3 or 4 1/4 turns, it suddenly came to full resistance.



As you can see in the picture, the rod's nut has hit the inner cavity of the neck. I've read on the fret not website that this situation happens when the rod reaches some kind of a limit, and that I shouldn't tighten it anymore to avoid rod's nut breakage.

Anyway, I figured that if I slacken the strings, loosen the rod all the way (with little to no string tension), and then re-tighten and retune as normal, this would solve the problem.

It seems to me that since it's definitely a single action truss rod, loosening it while there's no tension or resistance on the neck would bring it back to "zero point" of some sort. This presumably should come off IMO. Or not?!

Could it be that there's no threads left in the rod's nut? Or the rod itself has been warped?

Please help!!
#2
If it is a single action rod you may be able to actually remove the nut and place a spacer to give you more usable threads. Unfortunately, most or all Ibanez guitars use a double action rod, so continuing to turn counterclockwise will just bend the neck int the opposite direction you want. I'd try doing that though, there may be something stuck, and doing that might release it.

All else fails, you can try what I do to straighten necks on very old guitars that don't have truss rods. Place a block midpoint of the neck and a clamp on each end to exert downward pressure, causing back-bow, Heat the fingerboard. You can use a clothes iron for this, but be careful not to overheat. Fret markers, binding, and finish won't take too much heat... just very warm to touch. Take your time. The idea is to soften the glue between the fingerboard and neck so it can allow the two pieces to re-position in a more backbowed position. Heat also allows wood to bend more easily, and retain that shape as it cools. Also be careful exerting pressure. With screw clamps you can exert tremendous pressure and break the neck. Heat it, than just leave it set for a few days.

Truss rods can be replaced, but that involves removing the fingerboard, and it's probably cheaper to just buy another neck.
#3
Quote by stormin1155
All else fails, you can try what I do to straighten necks on very old guitars that don't have truss rods. Place a block midpoint of the neck and a clamp on each end to exert downward pressure, causing back-bow, Heat the fingerboard. You can use a clothes iron for this, but be careful not to overheat. Fret markers, binding, and finish won't take too much heat... just very warm to touch. Take your time. The idea is to soften the glue between the fingerboard and neck so it can allow the two pieces to re-position in a more backbowed position. Heat also allows wood to bend more easily, and retain that shape as it cools. Also be careful exerting pressure. With screw clamps you can exert tremendous pressure and break the neck. Heat it, than just leave it set for a few days.

Well TBO, I don't have enough courage/willpower to do the clamp trick, plus I don't have a clamp, let alone two clamps. I think the best thing I can do for now is to completely remove string tension, and then lightly apply pressure on the back of the neck while turning the rod counter-clockwise to see if there is something actually stuck. Thanks for the tip anyway.

Now I have two dumb questions: 1. Is there any clue that this is actually a double action rod? I've heard that most older Ibanez models (especially standard MIJs) have single action truss rods, how do I make sure which type is buried there in the neck?

And 2. Either way, I might have misunderstood, but did you mean that the rod's nut won't come off no matter what I do? I had an urge to insert a washer behind the nut but now I'm hesitant to over-loosen the rod to a point it becomes an irreversible apocalypse.

Thanks for your help.
#4
So 3 or 4 1/4 turns = a full turn which is a ton of adjustment. . .

You say you just purchased this guitar. If you purchased from a shop see if they will help you with the setup.

Kudos for trying your own setup but how bad was the neck relief to need a full turn? You would be able to see the neck looking like a drawn bow to need that much adjustment in which case I hope you got a great deal on the guitar to take the risk.
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Ibanez RG1570 Prestige
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Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
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#5
Quote by metalmingee
So 3 or 4 1/4 turns = a full turn which is a ton of adjustment. . .

You say you just purchased this guitar. If you purchased from a shop see if they will help you with the setup.

Kudos for trying your own setup but how bad was the neck relief to need a full turn? You would be able to see the neck looking like a drawn bow to need that much adjustment in which case I hope you got a great deal on the guitar to take the risk.

The thing is the relief is not actually that bad, but the action is still pretty high. I initially intended to add a shim in the neck pocket, this is because there is a terrible fret buzz higher up the neck after I had lowered the bridge to flush (15-24 frets are basically a sitar). Therefore, I need to be able to re-tighten the truss rod back to compensate the change of tension wielded by the neck.

I didn't know that 4 1/4 turns would be that big, this guitar is second hand BTW, and I believe the previous owner(s) hadn't made action adjustments in a long while. It was just a piece of junk when I first got it. Thanks for your help.
#6
Quote by aozen
Now I have two dumb questions: 1. Is there any clue that this is actually a double action rod? I've heard that most older Ibanez models (especially standard MIJs) have single action truss rods, how do I make sure which type is buried there in the neck?

And 2. Either way, I might have misunderstood, but did you mean that the rod's nut won't come off no matter what I do? I had an urge to insert a washer behind the nut but now I'm hesitant to over-loosen the rod to a point it becomes an irreversible apocalypse.

Thanks for your help.


Not dumb questions at all. I'm not an Ibanez expert, so don't know for sure whether single action rods were used in some older models. What I can tell you is if it is a double action rod you will not be able to remove the nut. You turn it clockwise it creates back-bow (reduces relief), turn it counterclockwise, you will come to a resting state where it feels loose, and as you continue to turn it will bend the neck upwards.

If it is single action there is a very good chance the nut is removable by turning it counterclockwise. All of the single action rods I've worked with the nuts could come off.
#7
Quote by stormin1155
Not dumb questions at all. I'm not an Ibanez expert, so don't know for sure whether single action rods were used in some older models. What I can tell you is if it is a double action rod you will not be able to remove the nut. You turn it clockwise it creates back-bow (reduces relief), turn it counterclockwise, you will come to a resting state where it feels loose, and as you continue to turn it will bend the neck upwards.

Now that's really helpful!!... I didn't really understand how the mechanism of double action rods works. I think the best thing to do for now is aiming to restore the rod back to this "resting state" in order to get the least tension possible. I'm thinking of applying a touch of WD40 behind the nut, then lightly press on the back of the neck while loosening the nut.

I thought the whole problem was that the threads have been crossed, causing the nut to be crooked as you see in the picture. Anyway, I hope WD40 would fix this.

Oddly enough, I use 9-42 gauge, and I've blocked the Floyd Rose to remove extra spring tension, also because I'm not a trem guy myself, so there's no excuse for the truss rod to whine like that
Last edited by aozen at Dec 2, 2015,
#8
The adjusting nut on a 2-way truss rod isn't threaded onto the shaft. Most are welded directly on it, which is why it's important to not strip the head of the nut. There is no replacing it if it rounds off without ungluing the fretboard from the neck.
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#9
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
The adjusting nut on a 2-way truss rod isn't threaded onto the shaft. Most are welded directly on it, which is why it's important to not strip the head of the nut. There is no replacing it if it rounds off without ungluing the fretboard from the neck.

I'm starting to really hate double action truss rods, it's just inconvenient in every respect.
#10
I disagree. Having the ability to adjust the neck in both directions is awesome.
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Omae wa mou
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