#1
Hi everyone.

I am slightly brain damaged, so sometimes my text is hard to understand, so I apologize.

I am learning Pantera-Cemetary gates, and you know the Riff where there you play 4 palm mutes on the A string, then go into the part with the pinch harmonics, all the tabs I can find seem to only mention a pinch harmonic on the 3rd fret A, 4th fret d, and 1st fret A.

When I listen to the song though, after the palm mutes I am sure that ALL of the notes are pinch harmonics.

Could someone help me out here? I can do pinch harmonics fine, and I got a new valve amp the other week, and really want to learn this song properly.

I don't know if this is liked around here, but I also have something called rocksmith 2014. It is quite fun, but I find practicing without to be better, but its cool to learn a song.

The thing is, the version on rocksmith is played totally different to all the tabs I can find. The pinch harmonics are on the 7th 8th and 9th A, so I am wondering what is correct-or essentially both are as they are the same notes?

Thanks everyone, Conan.
#2
Is this the section you're talking about...

e----------------------------------|
B----------------------------------|
G----------------------------------|
D--2--2-2-2-2---------------9------|
A--0--0-0-0-0--7-6-7--8-7-8---7-8--|
E----------------------------------|

e-------------------------------------------|
B-------------------------------------------|
G-------------------------------------------|
D--2--2-2-2-2-------------------------------|
A--0--0-0-0-0--7-6-7--8-6-7---6-------------|
E---------------------------8---7~~---------|


If it is I assume you mean the single notes at the end are what your referring to? So it kinda weird, the single notes are kinda picked really harsh so they kinda come across as harmonics. I think live Dimebag used to pick the vibrato notes with a harmonic.
#3
Quote by T.A.Z
Is this the section you're talking about...

e----------------------------------|
B----------------------------------|
G----------------------------------|
D--2--2-2-2-2---------------9------|
A--0--0-0-0-0--7-6-7--8-7-8---7-8--|
E----------------------------------|

e-------------------------------------------|
B-------------------------------------------|
G-------------------------------------------|
D--2--2-2-2-2-------------------------------|
A--0--0-0-0-0--7-6-7--8-6-7---6-------------|
E---------------------------8---7~~---------|


If it is I assume you mean the single notes at the end are what your referring to? So it kinda weird, the single notes are kinda picked really harsh so they kinda come across as harmonics. I think live Dimebag used to pick the vibrato notes with a harmonic.


Thats the one, thank you. OK so pretty harsh picking, I will try that, as all pinch harmonics did not sound completely right, I think it may be a kind of 'half-harmonic' you know when you are learning them, and you get some of the undertones of the harmonic, but the fundamental still is the strongest?

I may try that as well, but it is doing my head in as I really do like that song, especially that riff, and want to get it right .
#4
Quote by T.A.Z
Is this the section you're talking about...

e----------------------------------|
B----------------------------------|
G----------------------------------|
D--2--2-2-2-2---------------9------|
A--0--0-0-0-0--7-6-7--8-7-8---7-8--|
E----------------------------------|

e-------------------------------------------|
B-------------------------------------------|
G-------------------------------------------|
D--2--2-2-2-2-------------------------------|
A--0--0-0-0-0--7-6-7--8-6-7---6-------------|
E---------------------------8---7~~---------|


If it is I assume you mean the single notes at the end are what your referring to? So it kinda weird, the single notes are kinda picked really harsh so they kinda come across as harmonics. I think live Dimebag used to pick the vibrato notes with a harmonic.


Thank you. So play really harsh, it kind of sounds like when you are learning pinch harmonics, and can't get it to fully come out, so you get half harmonic, half fundamental.

Also thats the way it is played in rocksmith, not the tab I was using. Is this the correct one then? I guess it is, before I was playing 4 palm muted A's, then during the single notes a pinch harmonic on 3rd fret a, followed by a pinch harmonic on the G string 4th and 5th.

So it is all mostly on the A string yes? I also thought it was just a power chord on the first note of the A string, the other 3 were palm muted single notes? Apart from the end of the riff, where it goes to the E string it is Just the A string and one D string.
Last edited by Warrior2014 at Dec 2, 2015,
#5
Yeah you've got the idea mate kind of like when your learning to do pinch harmonics. Dime played aggressive so they kinda come out squealing, but not quite.

As for the tab, I would play the A fretted on the 5th position, that is 5th fret E string and 7th fret a string and keep the single notes in one area so like this...

e----------------------------------|
B----------------------------------|
G----------------------------------|
D---------------------------9------|
A--7--7-7-7-7--7-6-7--8-7-8---7-8--|
E--5--5-5-5-5----------------------|

e-------------------------------------------|
B-------------------------------------------|
G-------------------------------------------|
D-------------------------------------------|
A--7--7-7-7-7--7-6-7--8-6-7---6-------------|
E--5--5-5-5-5---------------8---7~~---------|
#6
you can't expect to get the same sounds on a cheap equipment, when he is using thousands of dollars worth of gear, and play with super high gain and volume lol
#8
Quote by Fowleri
you can't expect to get the same sounds on a cheap equipment, when he is using thousands of dollars worth of gear, and play with super high gain and volume lol


No offense because I might be reading this wrong, but what a ridiculous thing to say. Expensive gear does not make a good guitarist. If that was the case I'd have had a period where I was Steve flipping Vai and I'm now a lowly Tom Delonge...

It's the playing and experience in using equipment thats gonna help make the sound, not the gear.
#9
Quote by Fowleri
you can't expect to get the same sounds on a cheap equipment, when he is using thousands of dollars worth of gear, and play with super high gain and volume lol

I am playing through a quality valve amp that has great harmonics(to me). I got lucky and got £5500 a few weeks ago, so bought a amp head and speaker cab.
#10
Quote by T.A.Z
Yeah you've got the idea mate kind of like when your learning to do pinch harmonics. Dime played aggressive so they kinda come out squealing, but not quite.

As for the tab, I would play the A fretted on the 5th position, that is 5th fret E string and 7th fret a string and keep the single notes in one area so like this...

e----------------------------------|
B----------------------------------|
G----------------------------------|
D---------------------------9------|
A--7--7-7-7-7--7-6-7--8-7-8---7-8--|
E--5--5-5-5-5----------------------|

e-------------------------------------------|
B-------------------------------------------|
G-------------------------------------------|
D-------------------------------------------|
A--7--7-7-7-7--7-6-7--8-6-7---6-------------|
E--5--5-5-5-5---------------8---7~~---------|


Thanks man, I can play it this way, or the D string way. I can get the harmonics to ring out easier the D string way, but if its wrong, I would rather learn the correct way. I have even tuned to the tuning used on the track, thanks to rocksmith lol. Its just below E standard, but not E flat, its like inbetween-quite strange there.

But playing it that way, with the harmonics harder to produce (for me) it actually sounds MORE like the recording. So a genuine thanks for that, now time to learn the rest. I am going to learn it fully, as if I am honest, there is only one song I can play (almost) fully. That is master of puppets. I can play it all apart from kirks solo.

I had a few issues though with alcohol so neglected playing and also ended up slightly brain damaged-this has lead to osteoporosis and other problems due to my pituitary failing.

But now, I have a new amp, and am pacticing for around an hour a day.

I have an admission to make though-I do not know how to make my own music. I can make a riff quite easily that actually sounds pretty good from a scale, but then I do not know how to add what would go under for the rhythm section, as my mum is buying me an interface for christmas so I can record vocals and also record guitar.

I need to learn some theory so I actually know what I am playing, such as the key I am in ETC.
Last edited by Warrior2014 at Dec 2, 2015,
#11
T.A.Z. is on the ball, at least for the way I play it, even the A in 5th position.

Good luck with the solo man!
#12
I think a lot of songwriting will happen naturally man by what music you choose to learn.

As for Cemetery Gates, make sure you've got plenty of gain turned up to get a nice overdriven sound and the harmonics will sing loud and proud!!

Good luck, I'm sure there's other guys here like SpiderM and myself that can help with any questions about learning this song.
#13
Quote by T.A.Z
I think a lot of songwriting will happen naturally man by what music you choose to learn.

As for Cemetery Gates, make sure you've got plenty of gain turned up to get a nice overdriven sound and the harmonics will sing loud and proud!!

Good luck, I'm sure there's other guys here like SpiderM and myself that can help with any questions about learning this song.


Thank you, that does mean a lot. I mainly like Thrashy stuff, then I don't mind certain songs by priest, my favourite is electric eye and painkiller, and some melodic death metal, like I like in flames album whoracle and some tracks off clayman, but whoracle I can listen to all of it. But my three favourites off of there are Jotun, the hive, and episode 666.

I hope as I practice more you are correct.

This may sound silly, as I have had my guitar for a LONG time now, I got it in like 2010, but was severely alcohol dependant , it got so bad I ended up in hospital for a week, had a seizure that went into status epilepticus, that went on for a little too long and damaged me a bit. My memory and emotions have been affected, and my pituitary gland stopped releasing testosterone-I only learnt this around 9 months ago after a brain scan as I had some symptoms, I have to have monthly injections now of a steroid that body builders take, but as it was untreated for a long time I have quite severe osteoporosis in my spine and hips.

But I see it as that was the old me-I have even changed my name, that person died the day I stopped drinking as he could be nasty, did bad things, and I would not want to know him.

I now try to help out whoever I can, this is a different topic but I have really got into vaping (it started to stop me smoking) and I have become a collector of mods. I have 14 now lol.

Is there anything theory wise that I should REALLY know? As currently, I don't recall anything I actually learned in the past, either due to the drink or the memory damage. I am kind of starting again, but already know how to pick properly, do pinch harmonics, vibrato, ETC and move around the neck fairly easily.

Kind of a beginner but with some help lol.
#14
I would do a search on youtube mate. Something I've started looking at is a series GuitarWorld ran a few years back, if you search for "guitar fretboard mastery" you'll find a series of videos which might help you immensely.

I myself haven't really played for a long time, so now getting back into it with a fresh approach I'm using those videos myself and I've been playing for around 15/16 years. Some of it is obvious basic stuff but it's worth covering and picking up new (and hopefully better) habits.
#15
"expensive gear" isn't necessary. it can make things easier for sure in terms of guitar play-ability and geometry, but it's not essential. imo pick holding technique and guitar intonation are really what matters for ph's -plus a lot of practice.
#16
Quote by ad_works
"expensive gear" isn't necessary. it can make things easier for sure in terms of guitar play-ability and geometry, but it's not essential. imo pick holding technique and guitar intonation are really what matters for ph's -plus a lot of practice.


^^ This ^^

#17
Quote by ad_works
"expensive gear" isn't necessary. it can make things easier for sure in terms of guitar play-ability and geometry, but it's not essential. imo pick holding technique and guitar intonation are really what matters for ph's -plus a lot of practice.


Thank you. I'm not rich, but I didn't skimp on my gear, or at least I don't think so.

I've got a ESP LTD MH1000 that I have set up fully, I did start with a line 6 spider 75 but around 2 weeks ago I got myself a blackstar HT5metal head and 1 by 4 8 inch driver cab.

I tried that against an orange with a few different cabs, and found this to be the best sounding for what I was after.

I also got a boss Ce5 as I actually enjoy the 80's sound it seems to provide, and enjoy the effect.

If you gave Steve Vai or whoever a cheap guitar and a cheap amp, they will still play like them.
Last edited by Warrior2014 at Dec 3, 2015,
#18
Quote by T.A.Z
I would do a search on youtube mate. Something I've started looking at is a series GuitarWorld ran a few years back, if you search for "guitar fretboard mastery" you'll find a series of videos which might help you immensely.

I myself haven't really played for a long time, so now getting back into it with a fresh approach I'm using those videos myself and I've been playing for around 15/16 years. Some of it is obvious basic stuff but it's worth covering and picking up new (and hopefully better) habits.

Thank you for the advice. I appreciate it, I genuinely do-it is much better than people who just slag you off for being new and asking questions.

Yes, I have had an account here for a while, but a lots happened in my life and I am basically starting from near scratch.
#19
Quote by Warrior2014
Thank you. I'm not rich, but I didn't skimp on my gear, or at least I don't think so.

I've got a ESP LTD MH1000 that I have set up fully, I did start with a line 6 spider 75 but around 2 weeks ago I got myself a blackstar HT5metal head and 1 by 4 8 inch driver cab.

I tried that against an orange with a few different cabs, and found this to be the best sounding for what I was after.

I also got a boss Ce5 as I actually enjoy the 80's sound it seems to provide, and enjoy the effect.

If you gave Steve Vai or whoever a cheap guitar and a cheap amp, they will still play like them.



no worries, your gear is perfectly fine. it took me a long time to get ph's down and even then i can only pull off maybe a dozen same note ph's one after the other that sound exactly right. i've found that:

-guitar intonation is pretty important. i've noticed that this effects where you actually fret for the harmonic (if that makes sense, i'm not good at explaining this stuff). i usually find that in the lower end of a guitar, i'm usually fretting the note slightly to the right of center between 2 frets for the harmonic. as i move up the fretboard, i'll wind up fretting where i'm supposed to be -just on the left side of the fret. i'm a bit of a semi-professional luthier and i know how to build and set up electrics and acoustics and i use a peterson strobe for tuning and intonation but still it's weird.

-how you hold the pick. you need to choke up on that thing really, really, close. since i only use 2mm picks i can't say which is better thick or thin, but i suspect there might be some differences between the two.

-the callus. yes, the callus. you should have one on the edge of your thumb or at lease some tough skin there. the harder skin seems to help the harmonics ring out vs. dampening the ping.
Last edited by ad_works at Dec 3, 2015,
#20
Quote by ad_works
no worries, your gear is perfectly fine. it took me a long time to get ph's down and even then i can only pull off maybe a dozen same note ph's one after the other that sound exactly right. i've found that:

-guitar intonation is pretty important. i've noticed that this effects where you actually fret for the harmonic (if that makes sense, i'm not good at explaining this stuff). i usually find that in the lower end of a guitar, i'm usually fretting the note slightly to the right of center between 2 frets for the harmonic. as i move up the fretboard, i'll wind up fretting where i'm supposed to be -just on the left side of the fret. i'm a bit of a semi-professional luthier and i know how to build and set up electrics and acoustics and i use a peterson strobe for tuning and intonation but still it's weird.

-how you hold the pick. you need to choke up on that thing really, really, close. since i only use 2mm picks i can't say which is better thick or thin, but i suspect there might be some differences between the two.

-the callus. yes, the callus. you should have one on the edge of your thumb or at lease some tough skin there. the harder skin seems to help the harmonics ring out vs. dampening the ping.


Thank you for the tips. I find I can hit PH's each time if I angle my pick forwards at an angle, its real easy to do and does not affect my speed(If I am downpicking, alternate it DOES make me slightly slower, I guess that I will get up to speed with practice), but it works each time.

I like small picks, as I have small hands, so I use the red or black jazz 3's, so its pretty choked already, I like it this way though as I can go from standard riff playing to squeals of delight with minimal movement.

I have not yet developed the callous, but am getting broken skin that heals quickly, so I am sure I will have it soon . My intonation is good as I can make it as I made sure using a quality tuner at the twelfth fret and up, I used an online guide to help-it was a lot easier than I expected.

The thing is, Now I can do pinch harmonics, I can't seem to get that 'learning' sound back, they just come out as standard pinch harmonics.

I will try tommorow playing it harder but with less thumb contact, then more contact, until hopefully it is bang on.

I thought I did have it bang on, but then went to play along with the song and realised something was missing. It still sounds like a fine version of the song, but I would like to get it as close to perfect as possible. I think I may dial my gain to the max like Dimebag did.
Last edited by Warrior2014 at May 6, 2016,