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#2
This means that, averaged across many people, sex differences in brain structure do exist, but an individual brain is likely to be just that: individual, with a mix of features. “There are not two types of brain,” says Joel


so they said that there are not two types of human brain but that there are as many types of brains as there are humans to ever exist.

good find.
#4
Quote by Will Lane
so they said that there are not two types of human brain but that there are as many types of brains as there are humans to ever exist.

good find.

I thought the conclusion was funny as well.
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#5
but men have more testosterone, and our brains tell our bodies to create much, much more than women, and that has many effects on how we think and feel.
same thing with estrogen is guess

http://www.healthline.com/health/low-testosterone/effects-on-body

idn maybe i am a sexist koont
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#6
Quote by k.lainad
but men have more testosterone, and our brains tell our bodies to create much, much more than women, and that has many effects on how we think and feel.
same thing with estrogen is guess

http://www.healthline.com/health/low-testosterone/effects-on-body

idn maybe i am a sexist koont


that's a chemical difference in the body/brain though, not a difference in the brain itself
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#8
Quote by Will Lane
so they said that there are not two types of human brain but that there are as many types of brains as there are humans to ever exist.

good find.

They said there are no two distinct types of human brain. They didn't say that there weren't two types of human brain. They said there were many, many types of human brain.

Anywho, I'd like to see a study pertaining to brain function to further develop this idea. Even if brain functioning is clearly different between males and females it could be due to environmental/societal pressure or what not. interesting
#9
my brain type is dumb
Eat your pheasant
Drink your wine
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#11
Quote by Dreadnought
But why....


WHY......


WHY I SHOULD CARE?!

Wars have been fought over this in the Pit. You must care. YOU MUST. Otherwise all those bans meant nothing. NOTHING!! I TELL YOU!!!
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

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#12
Quote by Dreadnought
But why....


WHY......


WHY I SHOULD CARE?!

In case you ever felt inferior for being male. Now you know that's not the reason!
#13
Didn't surprise me one bit.


(Though seeing how many more, different hormones women have than men when looking at a wiki of the endocrine system was)
.
#14
In my brain there are too many, gamma butyric acid receptors or so the scientists say I don't know. Maybe they just like using big fancy words.

Abby Normal. I saw thing once where criminals had abnormal brains.

I know there's a difference between male and female bodies. There's a great deal of difference between bodies period , male or female.
#15
but are there male and female pinkies
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#16
Neo_Evil11, I don't think you properly understood the article. This isn't a matter of sexism, it's a matter of challenging the gender binary.

In short, there has been decades of research that suggests that males and females differ neurobiologically. This article does not claim that this challenges that. Here's a good meta-analysis that can be accessed for free). It's just not something that can be comparmentalised into "male brains" and "female brains" like pop psychology often suggests. This is the case for every sex difference studied in psychology: Males are generally one way, and females another, but there's overlap between the two and a great deal of variance for variables.
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Last edited by chrismendiola at Dec 1, 2015,
#17
Quote by chrismendiola
Neo_Evil11, I don't think you properly understood the article. This isn't a matter of sexism, it's a matter of challenging the gender binary.

In short, there has been decades of research that suggests that males and females differ neurobiologically. This article does not claim that this challenges that. Here's a good meta-analysis that can be accessed for free). It's just not something that can be comparmentalised into "male brains" and "female brains" like pop psychology often suggests. This is the case for every sex difference studied in psychology: Males are generally one way, and females another, but there's overlap between the two and a great deal of variance for variables.

And the overlap and great deal of variance makes judging people based on only their sex indeed sexism.
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#18
Quote by Neo Evil11
And the overlap and great deal of variance makes judging people based on their sex indeed sexism.

It's hardly addressing sexism, if at all. It would only be a matter of sexism if the notion that there are male brains and female brains suggests that one is superior over the other. It's more about challenging the idea of sexual dimorphism as it relates to gender, not sex.
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#19
Quote by chrismendiola
It's hardly addressing sexism, if at all. It would only be a matter of sexism if the notion that there are male brains and female brains suggests that one is superior over the other. It's more about challenging the idea of sexual dimorphism as it relates to gender, not sex.

And that is why the researchers adress this very issue in multiple paragraphs?
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#20
Quote by Neo Evil11
And that is why the researchers adress this very issue in multiple paragraphs?

m8

here's the thing

i'm in university to learn to study brains
Cultural expectations
Despite persisting stereotypes, girls are no worse than boys at science and maths subjects, either.

“People get wedded to the idea that being male or female is highly predictive of having different aptitudes or career choices,” says Margaret McCarthy, who studies brain sex differences at the University of Maryland in Baltimore. “This study fights against the idea that these outcomes are based on biological differences, as opposed to cultural expectations.” Other body systems are also often wrongly considered to be either male or female, says Joel.

Alexandra Kautzky-Willer, head of the Gender Medicine Unit at the Medical University of Vienna in Austria, agrees that things aren’t so simple. “There are differences between men and women when you look in large groups, and these are important for diagnosis and treatment,” she says. “But there are always more differences within genders. We always need to look at culture, environment, education and a person’s role in society,” she says.

If a neuroscientist was given someone’s brain without their body or any additional information, they would still probably be able to guess if it had belonged to a man or a woman. Men’s brains are larger, for example, and are likely to have a larger number of “male” features overall. But the new findings suggest that it is impossible to predict what mix of brain features a person is likely to have based on their sex alone.

Genderless future
Joel envisions a future in which individuals are not so routinely classified based on gender alone. “We separate girls and boys, men and women all the time,” she says. “It’s wrong, not just politically, but scientifically – everyone is different.”

But other scientists contacted by New Scientist don’t think that will ever be possible – as a sexually reproductive species, identifying a person’s biological sex will always be of paramount importance to us, they say.

Even so, Joel’s findings can be used to help many people understand the non-binary nature of gender, says Barker. After all, some people don’t identify as either male or female, and others feel their gender identity shift over time. “It’s a shame that people’s experience alone isn’t enough for us to recognise as a society that non-binary gender is legitimate.”

Did you read at all?
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#21
That is exactly what I am arguing you fucking idiot. Of course I read all that, those were part of the "multiple paragraphs".
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#22
Quote by Neo Evil11
That is exactly what I am arguing you fucking idiot. Of course I was all that, those were part of the "multiple paragraphs".

are you sure

because

Even so, Joel’s findings can be used to help many people understand the non-binary nature of gender, says Barker. After all, some people don’t identify as either male or female, and others feel their gender identity shift over time. “It’s a shame that people’s experience alone isn’t enough for us to recognise as a society that non-binary gender is legitimate.”

The conclusion of texts usually summarises them.

EDIT: The findings challenge the idea that men are one way and women are the other, not that [sex] is better than [other sex].

It's also in the beginning:

It reveals that most people have a mix of male and female brain features. And it also supports the idea that gender is non-binary, and that gender classifications in many situations are meaningless.


It's only tangentially related to sexism.
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Last edited by chrismendiola at Dec 1, 2015,
#23
Quote by chrismendiola
are you sure

because


The conclusion of texts usually summarises them.

Please elaborate to me how this article does not indicate that discriminating people based on their sex or gender, whichever one you like, is invalid? It even comes up with very specific examples.
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#24
Quote by Neo Evil11
That is exactly what I am arguing you fucking idiot. Of course I read all that, those were part of the "multiple paragraphs".


lol'd

Neo just makes threads so he can argue with us

and to prove that he's smarter.
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Quote by Necroheadbanger
Hello.
I'm looking for professional bongo-ists and triangle-ists to make a Progressive Technical Brutal Death Metal band
(will be called AxOxJxLxAxIxVxXxUxWxZxQxUxRxWxGxJxSxAxLxKxMxNxHxUxGxAxAxWxVxCxBxZxVx)
(Don't even ask what it means)


https://soundcloud.com/95dank



#25
Quote by Neo Evil11
Please elaborate to me how this article does not indicate that discriminating people based on their sex or gender, whichever one you like, is invalid? It even comes up with very specific examples.

Jeez, you don't even understand what I said. Of course it says that.

The notion that men and women have brains that have their own distinct features with little to no overlap is not inherently sexist. All it suggests is that men are one way, and women are the other. For it to be sexist, you'd need to make a sweeping generalisation that one sex's supposed "brain" is superior to the other. It would address sexism if it were challenging the notion that [sex]'s brains are superior to [the other] in general.

What I'm trying to get across to you is this: This article is not trying to say, "It's wrong that one sex's brains are superior to the other sex." It's suggesting evidence that "Males and females' brains don't actually differ as distinctly as our culture suggests."

That's not really sexism, that's gender. Sure, you could definitely connect gender roles/expectations to sexism, but this was the wrong article to use to challenge sexism.
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#27
Quote by chrismendiola
Jeez, you don't even understand what I said. Of course it says that.

The notion that men and women have brains that have their own distinct features with little to no overlap is not inherently sexist. All it suggests is that men are one way, and women are the other. For it to be sexist, you'd need to make a sweeping generalisation that one sex's supposed "brain" is superior to the other. It would address sexism if it were challenging the notion that [sex]'s brains are superior to [the other] in general.

What I'm trying to get across to you is this: This article is not trying to say, "It's wrong that one sex's brains are superior to the other sex." It's suggesting evidence that "Males and females' brains don't actually differ as distinctly as our culture suggests."

That's not really sexism, that's gender. Sure, you could definitely connect gender roles/expectations to sexism, but this was the wrong article to use to challenge sexism.

Any sweeping generalisation as you so kindly put it, is impossible thanks to the conclusion of this article. Which is why sexism must be wrong. It does not say anything about better or worse, but the fact that the generalisation is already impossible makes the step of ordering the things you generalised impossible. Therefore, the article indeed challenges sexism.
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#28
Well-baited thread m8. You must live a very busy lifestyle
"Rock'n'Roll, music for the neck downwards"
#30
Quote by Neo Evil11
Any sweeping generalisation as you so kindly put it, is impossible thanks to the conclusion of this article. Which is why sexism must be wrong. It does not say anything about better or worse, but the fact that the generalisation is already impossible makes the step of ordering the things you generalised impossible. Therefore, the article indeed challenges sexism.

Generalisations are still possible because sex differences still exist. Believe me, if this study was so groundbreaking that generalisations between the sexes were suddenly invalid, the whole world of psychology would be talking about it. There have been decades worth of research all around the world- so much of psychology generalises men and women's behaviour or neurological characteristics. Psychology, as a discipline, would be in chaos. I'm pursuing my bachelor's degree now and plan on eventually getting my doctorate, and this is the first I've heard of these findings. It's not saying that it's invalid that men are typically [description here] and women are [other description here]. It says that it's very, very rare for an individual to have characteristics are overwhelmingly male or female.

The findings given by the article do not challenge that men. You might argue that it skirts the line between challenging sexism and not, but that isn't even the main point. Yeah, challenging gender roles is a goal of sexism, but this is way more about the gender roles/expectations than it is about sexism.
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#31
So your email friend might be a guy.
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#32
Quote by chrismendiola
Generalisations are still possible because sex differences still exist. Believe me, if this study was so groundbreaking that generalisations between the sexes were suddenly invalid, the whole world of psychology would be talking about it. There have been decades worth of research all around the world- so much of psychology generalises men and women's behaviour or neurological characteristics. Psychology, as a discipline, would be in chaos. I'm pursuing my bachelor's degree now and plan on eventually getting my doctorate, and this is the first I've heard of these findings. It's not saying that it's invalid that men are typically [description here] and women are [other description here]. It says that it's very, very rare for an individual to have characteristics are overwhelmingly male or female.

The findings given by the article do not challenge that men. You might argue that it skirts the line between challenging sexism and not, but that isn't even the main point. Yeah, challenging gender roles is a goal of sexism, but this is way more about the gender roles/expectations than it is about sexism.

It is 4.13 here so I am going to bed. Tomorrow when I am on my laptop I will show you why you are both right, wrong and totally missing the point, with quotes from the article.

But let me start off that if you are a BSc student, get off your high horse, and "the whole world of psychology would be talking about it" who says they aren't?
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Last edited by Neo Evil11 at Dec 1, 2015,
#33
Quote by Neo Evil11
It is 4.13 here so I am going to bed. Tomorrow when I am on my laptop I will show you why you are both right, wrong and totally missing the point, with quotes from the article.

Let me save you some time. Gender bias is indeed related to sexism, yes, (some would argue that it's the crux of the idea) but the main point is the neurological evidence that gender is non-binary. You're the one who's missing the point here.

Of course, many of those who believe that gender should be binary, and similarly those who tout sex differences, are definitely sexist. Sexual dimorphism as it relates to gender and sexism are closely related; you're not wrong to connect them. It's definitely sexist to limit a person to expectations based on that person's sex, but if you read the article, nearly every single sentence is saying something about how people are way too complex for the notion that men are always [characteristics] and females are always [characteristics]. Sexism deals more with equity and/or equality, whereas gender studies deals more with how characteristics are presented in individuals. There is definitely connection between those concepts, but let's not make stretches as you're trying to make. This article only implicitly describes equality and/or equity, and again, nearly every sentence of this article explicitly says something about how people are far more complicated than two categories. Again: yeah, okay, there's sexism involved in gender expectations, but it's a very myopic approach to relate this article to sexism. Sexism is far more expansive than that.

The main point of the article is that gender is fluid, and comparing brains between males and females supports that. What I'm trying to get across is that this is the wrong article to present as a counterargument to sexism. This would, however, be great evidence against those who are against the notion of gender fluidity.

(If it seems like I'm being redundant, well, that's the point. I'm trying to explain it in as many ways as I can think of because I don't know if you understood it every other time I said it.)
Quote by Neo Evil11
But let me start off that if you are a BSc student, get off your high horse, and "the whole world of psychology would be talking about it" who says they aren't?

I think I'd know when a major paradigm of a discipline I love to study and am involved in studying would shift so much that professors would have to rescind what they've taught me for the past three years. Someone, somewhere would have said something to psychology students new and old.
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Last edited by chrismendiola at Dec 1, 2015,
#35
Quote by Neo Evil11


I don't believe this proposition,
men have 20% more muscle mass than women
that alone means the brain is different because it has to be wired differently to accommodate a different body
not to mention the different hormones and how they function in the female body-
this sounds like new age PC BS frankly
sunaj
#36
Quote by sunaj
I don't believe this proposition,
men have 20% more muscle mass than women
that alone means the brain is different because it has to be wired differently to accommodate a different body
not to mention the different hormones and how they function in the female body-
this sounds like new age PC BS frankly
sunaj

Except the article didn't say that there are no differences in brains (in general) between males and females.

This is meat and potatoes of it, really.
When the group looked at each individual brain scan, however, they found that very few people had all of the brain features they might be expected to have, based on their sex. Across the sample, between 0 and 8 per cent of people had “all-male” or “all-female” brains, depending on the definition. “Most people are in the middle,” says Joel.
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Last edited by chrismendiola at Dec 1, 2015,
#37
Quote by sunaj
I don't believe this proposition,
men have 20% more muscle mass than women
that alone means the brain is different because it has to be wired differently to accommodate a different body
not to mention the different hormones and how they function in the female body-
this sounds like new age PC BS frankly
sunaj


Wow, you're rather clueless about development biology, aren't you?


Source: My fucking biology degree fight me.
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