#1
"Tangled Up In You" by Staind, is written is C Major, and the melody starts on and kind of resolves to the G note. Does this make it G Mixolydian, or is there more to modes than that?
#2
It's not modal at all, and it's in Db major?

Modes are not common practice right now, it's best to not think about modes.
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Quote by Jet Penguin
lots of flirting with the other key without confirming. JUST LIKE THEIR LOVE IN THE MOVIE OH DAMN.
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you're acting like you have perfect pitch or something
#3
Yes, you're right. I play it in C with a capo on 1 - hahahahha I forgot about the capo.
Will learning about modes help me with writing 80's rock songs like Guns 'n Roses? Because then I really want to see how they work hahaha
#4
Key is about harmony, not melody. It doesn't matter what note you start/end the melody with. Harmony is what it's all about. You should try to find the home note/chord (just listen to it). Which of the chords sounds like home? That's your key.

The song in question is clearly in Db major. It's based on three different progressions: I-IV, vi-IV and vi-IV-I-V.


Forget about modes. Learn about keys and chord functions first. You can't really understand modes properly before you properly understand keys. Guns N' Roses is not modal - they don't use modes, they play in major and minor keys, just like pretty much every rock band does. If you want some more color to your songs, look at accidentals, modulations and chord borrowing. But first learn about keys.
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Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Dec 2, 2015,
#5
Awesome thanks.
I do understand how keys work, how to figure out what keys contain what chords etc - is that what you mean?
#6
I do understand how keys work


Well, based on the topic of this thread, you really don't...

Yes, what chords/notes are in which keys is part of it but it's not all of it.

Do you know how to figure out what key a song is in? Do you know about chord functions? Do you understand the difference between major and minor keys (this is the most important thing if you really want to learn about modes)?

If you know all of this, learn about accidentals and chord borrowing. Your goal would be to be able to recognize this all by ear/in practice, not just know the explanation. So listen to songs and figure out what's happening in them. Preferably use your ears, but using some kind of chord charts or tabs is fine at the beginning if you can't figure something out by ear.

After you understand all of this properly, then you can learn about modes. But then you may also realize that you actually already understand them.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#7
I understand the difference of how major and minor keys are formed. I normally look at what chords are in a song to figure our the key. The only thing I should work on is the chord functions - I'm only sure of the tonic and dominant chord functions. So maybe I should work more on that.

Thank you, I will start analyzing songs, and listening to what is actually happeining.!
#8
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Key is about harmony, not melody. It doesn't matter what note you start/end the melody with. Harmony is what it's all about. You should try to find the home note/chord (just listen to it). Which of the chords sounds like home? That's your key.

The song in question is clearly in Db major. It's based on three different progressions: I-IV, vi-IV and vi-IV-I-V.


Forget about modes. Learn about keys and chord functions first. You can't really understand modes properly before you properly understand keys. Guns N' Roses is not modal - they don't use modes, they play in major and minor keys, just like pretty much every rock band does. If you want some more color to your songs, look at accidentals, modulations and chord borrowing. But first learn about keys.


I agree with this, i find that when i play in E major key i seem to get more of a blues harmony when i write, but then going to a new key It helps me create different styles of music like more pop/folk sounding which i get from the key of Am ( I think). Its strange how it works for me, i dont know if its just me but it always happens haha
#9
Quote by kennethkotze
I understand the difference of how major and minor keys are formed. I normally look at what chords are in a song to figure our the key. The only thing I should work on is the chord functions - I'm only sure of the tonic and dominant chord functions. So maybe I should work more on that.

Thank you, I will start analyzing songs, and listening to what is actually happeining.!
Just to confirm: the "key" is the "note that sounds like home" - the tonal centre of the tune, and the note that any melody will usually finish on, or at least sound finished on.
If this tune really did sound resolved on that G note, then you might correctly (although still debatably) describe it as "mixolydian"; but as it is, to my ears anyway, it sounds clearly resolved on the C (Db concert, that is) - melody as well as chords. There could hardly be a clearer example of a (non-modal) major key tune than this one!

IOW, it's important to get one's terms right! In a sense it's all just words, but confusion happens when "key" is used to mean (basically) a scale. (Let alone when we start throwing modal terms around...)
So, looking at a bunch of chords won't tell you what the key is. It might give you strong clues, especially if the song starts and ends on the same chord - but you won't really know which chord is key chord until you listen and identify the tonal centre, the "home" chord.
Not that that matters, of course, if you know the chords. If you do, you can play the song perfectly well (and improvise on it) without having to correctly identify its tonal centre, because improvisation works from chord tones - together they provide the scale. (There are arguable exceptions to this principle.)

Still - if you want to hear mixolydian mode in action (in its modern guise rather than its strictly defined medieval guise) there are lots of examples in rock, because rock likes using bVII chords (as well as b7 notes). So it's very common to hear major keys given a "mixolydian" effect by adding a bVII chord. (But if they retain the major V chord, then they're still really major keys, just with a "borrowed chord".)

When I first saw your topic I misread it as "Tangled Up In Blue" - the Bob Dylan song, which does have a strong mixolydian flavour: key of A (A major is clearly the key chord, by sound), but with a prominent G major chord in the progression.
It's still just a borrowed chord (bVII), because the song also has an E major. (I guess you could say it's "mixolydian with a V borrowed from ionian" - but really it's in the "key system" tradition, in which borrowed and secondary chords are common occurrences. (The idea of a major key song sticking wholly to one scale, and the chords from that scale, is a kind of artificial limitation, a kind of "major key 101" songwriting process.)

Here's a few examples of what we might call "pure mixolydian" in rock music - no leading tone (major 7th scale degree), no major V chord:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34mL7eEhfK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDfx_d1_bpU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3SjCzA71eM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0aHmMfZTEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V1p1dM3snQ

Needless to say, none of those artists knew what "mixolydian mode" was! (Just possibly Bowie might have done.)
#10
Quote by heaven086
I agree with this, i find that when i play in E major key i seem to get more of a blues harmony when i write, but then going to a new key It helps me create different styles of music like more pop/folk sounding which i get from the key of Am ( I think). Its strange how it works for me, i dont know if its just me but it always happens haha
That makes sense, because if you begin with an E major chord, the open 4th and 3rd strings give you the blues b7 and b3, and it's easy to hammer on from those. Also, borrowed chords from E minor are all easily available - G and D in particular - will add to the "E blues" sound.
It would be less natural, less intuitive, to do the same thing in key of, say, C, where the equivalent borrowed minor key chords would be Bb and Eb.

This is why, IMO, so much rock music ends up with a mixolydian flavour. (a) an E major chord makes a great, powerful tonic; (b) easier to add a D chord than a B or B7 chord.
So - as in "Gloria" - a riff using E, A and D chords (the 3 easiest shapes?), will easily fall under the fingers, and can easily home in on E rather than A as tonic: hence "E mixolydian" instead of "A major".
Last edited by jongtr at Dec 2, 2015,
#11
This song is played in open Db tuning. Think open D tuning D A D F# A D, tuned flat. Each chord is altered with the pleasantly 'dissonant' sound created by the interaction of the added major 9th to each the I, IV, V and vi chords and so the listeners perception of resolution is altered. Every chord including the I chord sounds like it's unresolved and 'leading' somewhere else.

Very simple to play if you were to play it like Aaron Lewis wrote it:

https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/s/staind/tangled_up_in_you_ver4_crd.htm