#1
Just like the title says, I'm considering getting a third EQ pedal for my rig. For the longest time, I've run an MXR 10-band in my effects loop, which has proven to be critical in getting my sound. Last summer, I picked up another MXR 10-band on the cheap because I thought it could be useful in front of the amp. At first, I couldn't really notice a big improvement to my tone, as when an EQ is placed in front of the amp, it doesn't have nearly as drastic of an effect on your overall tone. For a while, I just stopped using it. But recently, I tried it again with some very mild settings; a cut to some low-bass and a slight boost to the upper mids and lo and behold -- my tone is now better than ever.

But I got to thinking, pedals like the MXR 6-band and Boss GE-7 offer adjustability of different frequency bands.

Where the 10-band has these bands: 31 hz, 62.5 hz, 125 hz, 250 hz, 500hz, 1 Khz, 2 Khz, 4 Khz, 8 Khz, and 16 Khz,

Those other two pedals basically offer adjustment between most of those frequencies.

Example: Boss GE-7 can adjust 100hz, 200hz, 400hz, 800hz, 1.6khz, 3.2 khz, and 6.4khz. The MXR 6-band basically covers those same frequencies.

I've even seen several opinions citing that the user likes the frequencies of the Boss pedal better than those of the MXR 10-band.

Am I missing out on some control over critical frequencies? I was thinking about adding one of the other two pedals to my loop and creating a "16 or 17-band" EQ setup. Should I be looking at another unit perhaps? Maybe there's one pedal than offers a greater range of adjustment? My pedalboard is almost full as it is...

Please discuss.
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#2



I think you are trying too hard. Maybe you need a different amp if you need to tweak things that much. You get to a point of diminishing returns you know? If it is that important and you don't want to change your amp - consider getting a 21 band rack EQ.
#3
Both units allow adjustments in one-octave jumps (double any frequency and you're up an octave). FWIW, most guitar speakers really fall off below 100hz and above 4 Khz, so unless you've got a speaker cabinet capable of more, the first two and the last two sliders on the MXR 10-band aren't doing much (depending on how precisely they're cutting things). Most of these units, however, have frequency sliders that "lap over" into the other frequencies and sort of pull frequencies well beyond their stated center points. IOW, they're a bit sloppy.

The short of it is, you're not really developing greater precision by having more than one in the same area of your pedal board. If you were able to find a 1/3-octave EQ box, you'd have something. These are usually available as rack-mount 31-band (1/3 octave from 20Hz-20Khz) graphic EQs. In fact, you can find a pair of them (stereo) for as low as $149 (http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHFBQ3102 ) which is cheaper than what you'd pay for a pair of the MX100s.



You'll want to notice a couple of things on that EQ on the left side -- there's both a low-cut and a high-cut. Since your guitar speakers can't reproduce much below 100Hz anyway, you can set the low cut to just below that and prevent your amplifier from trying to reproduce frequencies you won't hear from your speakers anyway. This saves amp power for where you need it. A good thing.
#4
Why you might want more than one EQ...

Eddie Van Halen has at times used up to three EQ pedals in his rigs, and so do a lot of professionals (these usually get ignored in rig rundowns). The first place to use an EQ pedal is as the very first pedal. What you're doing is EQ-ing the pickups, essentially. You will be *amazed* at how many pickups swaps this has averted. The second place is after the distortion (a bit more difficult if you're using the amp distortion, of course). This gives you the ability to EQ the distortion itself, and you will be *amazed* at how many bins of tossed distortion pedals this has averted. And the third place is in the FX Loop. Depending on how you look at it, you're EQing the preamp, the overall sound, or the cabinet. In any case, it's the last thing before the power amp section.

With that rackmount EQ, above, you're able to put 31 bands of fairly precise EQ (although perhaps a dozen of each won't matter with a guitar) into at least two spots in your rig.
#5
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH



I think you are trying too hard. Maybe you need a different amp if you need to tweak things that much. You get to a point of diminishing returns you know? If it is that important and you don't want to change your amp - consider getting a 21 band rack EQ.


Well, I do love the tone of my amp, it just gets better and better with some of the finer tweaks. It's a 6505+ with the lead channel modded to 5150 specs. The amp's own EQ doesn't change the tone all that much. But it really came alive with the EQ in the loop.

I've just read where some people like the frequency options on the 6 and 7 band pedals a little better -- specifically the access to key mids bands like 800Hz and 1.6 kHz.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
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Pestilential Flood
#6
Dspellman, do you think that running my MXR 10-band with one of those other pedals would be redundant due to overlap between the supposed frequencies? I still may go for another one anyway just to have two different EQ presets in the loop.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
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Pestilential Flood
#8
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Why not get a 31 band rack eq? Keep your single 10 band in front and use a 31 band rack in the loop?

This is exactly what I was thinking. There are plenty of 32 band mono EQ's out there.
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#10
I'm of the opinion that 1 EQ pedal is too many EQ pedals, but in your case it seems to work for your setup.

I agree with the poster above that you should probably buy a different amp - any amp that needs that much sculpting simply isn't providing what you need. Maybe you should look into something like Boogie Mark V with a graphic EQ built right on the faceplate.
#11
^^Oh, I've tried a Mark V. Didn't like it at all -- other than the cleans.

I guess I don't really understand the "you need a different amp if you're tweaking it that much" comments. Why adjust anything, if that's the case? Why do amps come with EQ controls at all, if that's the case? By using EQ pedals (and overdrives up front, when it comes down to it), you're simply adjusting parameters that an amp can't have on its own, for more versatility.

I mean I understand the law of diminishing returns thing. I feel that my tone is already fantastic, and I am not dissatisfied with it at all. But if there's a subtle tweak that might improve it even by a fraction -- well, that's worth it to me.
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Last edited by KailM at Dec 7, 2015,
#12
Quote by KailM
^^Oh, I've tried a Mark V. Didn't like it at all -- other than the cleans.

I guess I don't really understand the "you need a different amp if you're tweaking it that much" comments. Why adjust anything, if that's the case? Why do amps come with EQ controls at all, if that's the case? By using EQ pedals (and overdrives up front, when it comes down to it), you're simply adjusting parameters that an amp can't have on its own, for more versatility.

I mean I understand the law of diminishing returns thing. I feel that my tone is already fantastic, and I am not dissatisfied with it at all. But if there's a subtle tweak that might improve it even by a fraction -- well, that's worth it to me.


I think I misunderstood you.

I see EQ as corrective - wether in recording or with an amp. I've had the best tonal results by limiting the pedals and processing used with my amp - which let's the amp's natural tone come through more. To me that is more pleasing to the ear.

I don't really play high gain music however, so my advice may not apply at all in that context.

I don't see any issues unless your getting a noticeable degradation of your tone.
#13
Why would somebody need an EQ pedal? Have you tried swapping tubes?
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#14
I've found as I get older that I don't care for any EQs really, and even overdrive can be neglected at times. For me, I just don't get much out of it, I usually leave everything fairly flat and may tweak one band a tiny bit, but it's pretty minuscule.

Clearly though, you like tweaking KailM. I say, why the hell not? Grab a rack EQ (they are cheap used) and fiddle to your hearts content.
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#15
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
Why would somebody need an EQ pedal? Have you tried swapping tubes?


Yes, I've tried many different tube configurations, and have found a great combination in using a 5751 in V1 and the PI position, JJ 12AX7s everywhere else.

I guess I'm just a control freak.

The biggest aspect for me, with my MXR, was to cut the highest highs to reduce fizz and also to boost certain bands of mids rather than a universal mid boost. You can really tailor your tone to get a unique sound that way. Simply adjusting the amp's EQ couldn't quite get there, as it wasn't precise enough. Maybe some amps are more responsive to EQ changes.
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#16
Quote by dementiacaptain
I've found as I get older that I don't care for any EQs really, and even overdrive can be neglected at times. For me, I just don't get much out of it, I usually leave everything fairly flat and may tweak one band a tiny bit, but it's pretty minuscule.

Clearly though, you like tweaking KailM. I say, why the hell not? Grab a rack EQ (they are cheap used) and fiddle to your hearts content.



I may look into those rack EQ systems. I've never really considered them or looked at them for that matter. I saw one on the local CL for $85. Do they plug into your loop just like a pedal would with normal leads?
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
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#17
Yes
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#18
sorry to be a pain... but i couldn't help but think that instead of going for more and more frequency adjustment, try giving your ears a rest and play with no eq.

like... literally start with your amp at the most basic setting (all at noon or something) and play it like that for 20 minutes.

sounds pretty bad? now make a little adjustment on the amp's eq. sounding better? good. play with that for another hour, or day.

keep tweaking the amp's eq a little for the next few days or weeks before you even introduce a pedal or rack eq back in.

i really think you've just fatigued the hell out of your ears. reset them
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#19
^^^^^


That's solid advice, regardless of what you end up doing. I've tweaked and tweaked and convinced myself I hated pieces of gear, only to put them down for a few weeks and pick them back up and fall in love all over again. It's worth trying even if you are dead set on the third eq
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#20
^^I understand what you guys are saying, and it's got a lot of merit -- however, I'm not sure it really applies to my particular situation. It's not like I'm constantly tweaking my EQs currently -- I've got a pretty specific configuration that I pretty much leave it at because it sounds best to me.

Specifically, amp EQ is set as follows:

Treble: 5
Mids: 5.5
Lows: 6.5

Resonance: 6
Presence: 4.5

And the loop EQ pedal is set for a 6db boost to the 125 hz slider, 250hz at 0 (no cut or boost), 500 hz cut by 6db, 1khz boosted by 1 db, and 2khz boosted by 6 db. So a notched EQ, basically, with the "middle mids" cut a bit but the other mids boosted. I also cut the highest highs by 6 db because that gets rid of the fizz.

The EQ up front is just to trim the lowest lows off the guitar to tighten things further -- and I don't always use that.

Every time I tweak my amp, I end up going back to those settings because they sound better. I'm mainly just curious about finding an even "better" tone by having some control over the frequencies between those on my loop EQ. For example, would I enjoy a boost to the 1.6khz region better than the 2 khz region? Currently, I can't adjust that.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
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Pestilential Flood
#21
Sounds like adding a booster may be more appropriate than another EQ, but then again many EQs work well as a clean boost.
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#22
If I'm reading it right you have cases where there is a 12db difference between certain frequencies (+6db @ 125 and -6bd @500). That seems pretty extreme and that is not even considering your amps tone controls. Maybe you don't like the sound of your current amp, speaker, guitar combination.
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Last edited by Rickholly74 at Dec 11, 2015,
#23
Quote by ibanezguitars44
^^^^^


That's solid advice, regardless of what you end up doing. I've tweaked and tweaked and convinced myself I hated pieces of gear, only to put them down for a few weeks and pick them back up and fall in love all over again. It's worth trying even if you are dead set on the third eq

oh how i've missed your signature

kailm, sounds like you are pretty set on your tone. if you want more flexibility, the only way to go is for 31 band rack eq.

i'm not sure if it'll really help... so maybe go for a used one for cheap and see if it's in the ballpark of what you're trying to achieve.
Gibson SG Standard + 18volt EMG-81 & 85
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Last edited by UnsignedRecords at Dec 11, 2015,