#1
So I am so impressed by some 7 , 9 years old kid shredding away on their over-sized electric guitars.

Sometimes, I wonder, do they even know what they are doing ? Do they really enjoy what they are playing ? Or because they are 'My-teacher-taught-me-this-now-I-am-playing-my-homework-for-everyone-to-see' ?

Why do they shred so comfortably while the grownups are still struggling with their speed when they have the resources at their fingertips and the ability/finance and knowledge to look out for great advice ?
Amateur guitarist straight from the oven !




#2
Prodigies are mostly very naturally talented people who have focus at an early age. Anyone can't simply "become" a prodigy, you need to be born with the right tool set, which is like winning the genetic lottery. If you have that tool set and you apply yourself at a young age, you end up with Julian Lage or Guthrie Govan or Joe Bonamassa etc.

If you read up on how children absorb language at a young age ( they can do so much easier than an adult) you'll see that there appears to be a certain period in development where the brain is like a sponge - my theory is that children who really get into music at very young ages ( age 3 or 4 seems to be the child prodigy standard)end up with an advantage over every one else because their brains "interiorise" the information in an way that becomes almost instinctive, like language. Add to that 4 to 8 hours per day of practice for several years and you have yourself an amazing musician.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, some people have basic motor skill limitations that hinder them during their entire lives, which is why some people are simply terrible at sports or playing fast guitar lines no matter how much they practice. The beauty of music, unlike sports, is that you can be an amazing musician who doesn't play fast.

That being said, in my experience people who are not technically proficient on guitar simply don't practice enough - in 90% of cases that's the one and only issue. They buy into the mantra that there are all these secrets and methods to playing fast when in reality the "secret" is practicing 4 hours plus per day.
#5
To add to what reverb said, young children are in a lot of ways more pliable when it comes to the potential to molded or conditioned at an early age. They also tend to, from my experience, do what they are told in a way that adults often don't, and so they can be easy to teach on that level. That is only some children though, whereas other children just don't listen or pay attention at all.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#6
being forced by your parents probably helps as well
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#7
^^^No doubt.

Parental committment, talent (this is hotly debated), hard work, young start, a good learning environment (eg a lot of young 'grassers), a good teacher. John Williams, the classical guitarist, for example, certainly had all the non-genetic components.

Que mas?
Last edited by Tony Done at Dec 7, 2015,
#8
I would say 80% practice, 10% desire (on the childs part), 10% genetics (maybe even less)

You look at child prodigies and you realize why they are so talented when you see the countless hours they practice but it isn't just practice, for them its fun and they love it, its a game.
#9
^ Aren't a lot of them almost estranged from their parents? They might love it when a kid (even that's debatable), but a lot blame their parents in later years. I have a vague recollection of vanessa mae being estranged from her mother, but I couldn't find anything about it on wikipedia so maybe I just imagined that.

Quote by Tony Done
^^^No doubt.

Parental committment


More like "crazy pushy parents"

It's effective, but at what cost?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 8, 2015,
#10
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ Aren't a lot of them almost estranged from their parents? They might love it when a kid (even that's debatable), but a lot blame their parents in later years. I have a vague recollection of vanessa mae being estranged from her mother, but I couldn't find anything about it on wikipedia so maybe I just imagined that.



Yes. She blamed her mother for forcing her to study violin or something along that line. Now she is enjoying being a professional ice skater.

But she does seem to enjoy playing the violin, doesn't she ?
Amateur guitarist straight from the oven !




#11
A lot of these 'amazing young guitarists' are simply technically proficient. The level of true emotional music that comes out of them is often minimal. They have little understanding of how to make the music passionate. They are forever praised for being so fast. They are simple technicians not artists.
Dare them to crank a power chord, loud and hang on to it whilst the feedback from the amp starts to make your ears bleed, your soul sing and the crowd roar.....
#13
Quote by Stuck_nomore
(a) Yes. She blamed her mother for forcing her to study violin or something along that line. Now she is enjoying being a professional ice skater.

(b) But she does seem to enjoy playing the violin, doesn't she ?


(a) Didn't she do some skiing there for a while too?

(b) Well, sure, but that doesn't exactly mean much if she's also estranged from her mother. She might be making the best of a bad situation, it doesn't mean it justifies it or anything like that.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
Quote by Dave_Mc
(a) Didn't she do some skiing there for a while too?

(b) Well, sure, but that doesn't exactly mean much if she's also estranged from her mother. She might be making the best of a bad situation, it doesn't mean it justifies it or anything like that.

I used to cry tears over my guitar as a kid since my parents pushed me into it. I wanted to quit and they already invested a good chunk of money in lessons and a cute little acoustic for me.
While not a prodigy I was talented at that age and performed in front of my elementary school a few times at events. I later quit during highschool and came back to it. I now thank my parents for pushing me to stick with it.

It all depends on how you look at it I guess.
#15
fair enough.

my parents asked me if i wanted to get piano lessons.

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
My grand-daughter is about to turn 3 in March. A guitar is on top of her birthday list because she watches me play everyday she's at our house.

I've been playing since high-school and will be able to teach her a ton of stuff.

I'm actually really looking forward to it...
#18
Reverb66 pretty much nailed it. Starting at a young age there is a sense of accomplishment nothing else can touch, add plenty practice and a natural talent, you have an exceptional musician later in life.

Being forced by parents is not a good thing. I almost gave up on sax entirely because my mother tried to force me to practice 2 hours a day like I always did with guitar by choice. Problem is you can't practice 2 hours a day until your lip muscles get built up to the point you can handle it. At first, 10 minutes and you can't hold the reed tight enough to get even a squawk out, the lip muscles are so tired. After 15 minutes it actually hurts. Even with a soft reed I couldn't last more than 15 minutes, and she would start screaming at me to practice, demanding 2 hours. No way...

I finally had a fight with her when I enrolled in high school. I learned in 7th grade, she refused to let me join the band in 8th, I finally decided in 9th I was going to be in the band, period. When I found out we had 2 or 3 "electives", classes of our choice, which could be changed the first 2 weeks, I went for band. She threw a fit in the admin office. I finally told her OK, YOU put down whatever YOU want, I'll change it all 1st day of school and you ave no say about it. She gave in. I never brought a horn home, I got my practice in a practice room whenever I could, and ended up one of the best sax players in the state. 1st chair in band, memorized everything we played, solos on baritone sax in jazz band, learned every instrument in the band room.

Encourage a kid to play and practice, but do not force them. Very bad idea.

I started guitar at age 5, by age 8 I was playing songs with the uncles who taught me, and they were teaching me to sing harmony parts. The first song I learned harmony vocals was Ebony Eyes by the Everly Brothers. In a week my uncle and I could nail the song. By age 10 I was onstage, been at it ever since, and I've developed a reputation in several towns as the best guitar player in town or close to it. In paces like Houston and Austin, with tons of good players, I was probably in the top 10, smaller places I've seen plenty times I was considered the best in town... I'd walk into a music store and most people wouldn't touch a guitar, which is dumb. I always try to play a little with someone better than I am, I'll always learn something. I grew up playing guitar with two uncles who could play circles around me so it doesn't bother me a bit. I look for better players. If I want a good band, I want to be the weakest player in the band. Then I know it will be one killer band...

Practice and determination count, but having a natural talent is the most important element.

I could always pick up almost any instrument and learn it, I found that out when I was young when I found out my uncles also had a mandolin. I picked it up and just started figuring it out, and I've always been able to do that. Because of a tendon injury I suck at keyboards, but I've been able to play since I was about 7 or so. My left hand, palm down for piano, doesn't work right at all. The tendon injury prevents picking up the middle and ring fingers, I'm extremely limited but I can still play and am entirely self taught. (Tendon to the left ring finger was cut in half when I was 12 at the wrist, surgically reconnected, I've never had full use of the ring and middle fingers since, I think they hooked them together.) But it has little effect on guitar, except that I can't make some of the chords you guys never think twice about. Barre a B or D or E, I have to use the pinkie and support it with the ring finger. Anything with a lot of stretch is difficult to impossible.

Same for wind instruments in band, if I had a book that showed me the fingerings, I could figure it out. Sax, clarinet, flute, trumpet, french horn, tuba, vibraphone, you name it. I just had the talent for it.

I can also hear what is there and figure it out by listening, once I get the first note I can figure it out from there. Most musicians are surprised, I can figure out their parts by listening. I started that in a band in 1967 when our keyboard player wanted to do a song but he hadn't figured out the keyboard intro. So we got together, I figured out the first note, then the next, then the next, and in about 3 minutes he had the intro ready.

I still do the same thing, I'm learning leads to a couple of songs right now, but I haven't practiced much, in cold weather the fingers hurt too much so I practice less. Going to be fun onstage tonight...I already know my fingers will be so sore by the time I get offstage I won't touch a guitar for 3 days...but I like it...
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#19
My 9 year old nephew sure isn't a prodigy. Bought him a nice little Yamaha acoustic. Tried to teach him some basic chords, basic strumming (admittedly...I tried to teach him fingerstyle too...he did NOT like it). He is an expert at tuning the thing though (made him practice tuning it a few times). Kid will NOT take instruction...granted my technique sucks, but he's holding the damn thing like a lap steel. He's a smart kid too...shouldn't have any problem learning the chord shapes. The annoying part is that I'm certain he could learn to play if he applied himself...it's just so much easier playing video games.
#20
Quote by Paleo Pete

Encourage a kid to play and practice, but do not force them. Very bad idea.


+1

At least for certain types of person (me included). Maybe the forcing method does work for some people, and maybe if they weren't forced they wouldn't be as good, but forcing doesn't work for everyone and can actually do more harm than good (as your post showed).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
Overly eager parents make child prodigies. What child naturally thinks, "I will make it my life's purpose to become a virtuoso guitarist."
The quest for your perfect gear is like being under the surface of a huge, overpowering lake. When you've nearly swam to the light on the surface it shoots far out of your sight again. Still, I'll enjoy the swim. What'd I do if I reached the top?
#22
it took me a month to be able to do 16ths at ~170 bpm after having no experience alternate picking myself, and im still in high school

the only problem being self taught is there is no way to tell if my technique is correct, nobody to push me in the right direction when im doing something wrong. I have to go by my own judgements
#23
Quote by Dave_Mc
....[ ]....At least for certain types of person (me included). Maybe the forcing method does work for some people, and maybe if they weren't forced they wouldn't be as good, but forcing doesn't work for everyone and can actually do more harm than good (as your post showed).
OTOH, I think people that simply accept what they are taught without question, do better in general than those who question life in all aspects. You can burn up a lot of time and energy continually answering you own, "but why". In other words, those whom "because" works as an answer.

Moving right along to further muddy the waters with mysticism, or as it's known to some, "modern psychology", I think it was Carl Yung who was into a theory of collective consciousness. I believe to some extent, that music as a cultural force, has embedded itself into our DNA.

Arguably, what you do well, you do often, and derive greater satisfaction from those things you do well.

So, if music is part of our collective consciousness, those that tap into it sooner should excel at it, as it's likely already there. The lucky ones get to hitch a ride on the early bus, so to speak.

Musical parents are one of the strongest physical forces acting on children. You rarely hear a successful young person, who can't relate stories of parents amnd relkative who where musical themselves.

Hence the reason you have generations of Carters and Cashes. (This part of the theory could have just as easily gone off on a tangent about nepotism in the music industry).
Last edited by Captaincranky at Dec 12, 2015,
#24
To become great at something, you need to be really interested in it. You need to want to practice. I have heard somebody say that talent is about being exceptionally interested in something. When you are really interested in something, you will want to learn to do it. You will want to practice 10 hours a day and you'll make progress a lot faster because you'll also use the time a lot more efficiently.

I would guess most people are musical. Then there are some people that are born with some advantages (like perfect pitch, synesthesia, that kind of stuff) and then there are people who are really tone deaf (not because of the lack of practicing - like most people who call themselves "tone deaf" are - but because they just can't hear differences between pitches).


About child prodigies... If you start playing the instrument at the age of 3 or 4, it's really no wonder that you are pretty good at the age of 9. That's already 5 or 6 years of experience. And also, the way children learn is different to the way adults learn. Adults may be faster at picking up the basics of everything, but it's easier to control the way a child learns. You don't need to explain stuff to them logically (and you really can't because their logical thinking is not as advanced as adults'). They learn by mimicking, the same way they learn to speak a language. The way an adult learns a language is by not learning it in practice or by experimenting with new words, but by learning certain kind of rules and that kind of stuff. I guess adults are just more self critical and afraid of mistakes.

Now of course to become an actual "prodigy", it's more than just playing the guitar for 5 years. That makes you pretty good but not a prodigy. Though today the term "prodigy" is used very loosely, and anybody that is "pretty good" is considered a "prodigy". Same as "talent". I hate those words. "Oh, you are so talented" when somebody can play Wonderwall.

Well, I hate the word "talent" for other reasons too. It's an excuse to suck and not to practice. "I'm just not talented enough." The word kind of gives an impression that a "talented" guitarist was born with a guitar in their hands and didn't need to put any effort in learning to play it (when in reality people like Steve Vai practiced like 10 hours a day). That discourages other people and they don't want to start playing an instrument because they don't see immediate progress. They think they are not talented enough because they can't play like Jimi Hendrix after a month of playing experience. Everybody can learn to play the guitar at a pretty decent level. People just need to remember that everybody was a beginner once and stop comparing themselves to others.

(BTW, I looked at the Wikipedia article about tone deafness and it said Robert Fripp was tone deaf and lacked the sense of rhythm when he started playing the guitar. I think he's a very good example of somebody who appeared to be very non-musical in the beginning but still became a great musician. Another reason why I hate the word "talented".)
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#25
You may not like the word talent, but it is an ingredient when it comes to people who are like me. I can't call it anything else, when I could pick up any instrument I wanted to and learn it. No instruction (after being taught guitar), no formal training, and in some cases without even a book of chords or fingerings.

What is it that lets a kid 8 years old sit down on a drum set for the first time ever and actually play the things, not just bang around like a 4 year old with an oatmeal box? That's what I did just watching my cousin play his drum set. Got chewed out for it, nobody told me I could play the drum set, but I just sat down and did it. I have no idea how, it was just there.

That's what a prodigy is. It's more than just being able to play well, it's a built in feel for music, or art or whatever, it's already there for some reason. I learned guitar quicker than anybody I've ever known, an hour and I was playing my first song. I taught kids for a while a few years ago, I had trouble getting them to play one chord decent in an hour. The first time I played bass it was an upright fretless bass, 5 minutes and I could actually play the thing. I had been playing guitar for 10 years, and sax for 3, so I had a background, but still, fretless bass, no formal training whatsoever, and 5 minutes?

That's what talent is. Find the first note and take it from there...pick out the chords to a song from the first note by memory from hearing it on the radio...Sit down on piano and figure out these 3 notes make a chord and take it from there....rather than just banging away on it like a 4 year old will.

A lot of people want to deny it for some reason, but talent definitely has a lot to do with it. I practiced, a lot, sometimes 4 hours a day when I was a kid, especially when I had to learn guitar again after having surgery on the tendon. I practiced in a totally dark room for 2 years, 2 hours a night. But I also had a natural talent for it too, I can't explain it, but it's just there. I pick up an instrument and I can figure it out.

I picked up a mountain dulcimer in a pawn shop one day. Never saw one before, had no idea what it was even called, tinkered with it for a couple of minutes and found out the tuning, a couple of minutes later some little tune popped into my head and I was playing it. The salesman thought I had been playing the thing for years. He refused to believe me when I told him I'd never even seen one before. Didn't even know what it was called...

That's what talent is. I can't explain it or describe it, I just know it's always been there. I pick up a guitar and doodle for a few minutes, a song pops out. I can't think up lyrics to save my life, but the music is there. Talent.

I just realized I goofed, I guess I'm not awake...fretless bass, not stringless...I need more coffee...gig last night, zombie today...
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
Last edited by Paleo Pete at Dec 12, 2015,
#26
children are at a stage where they can learn how to do physical things quite quickly. Their mind is a blank slate, soaking up whatever you show them, and their bodies are malleable and growing into whatever tasks you give them.

A lot child "prodigies" are the sort that are physically capable of very difficult things, but that's about it. There is only one child pianist I've seen that was really what I'd consider a prodigy, and I wish I remembered his name, because in my mind, nobody was ever going to be able to surpass oscar peterson, but after seeing this kid, I no longer think that.

The creative aspect of music is a different skill set. To be truly great, you need both the high level of physical skill and also creativity. Child prodigies often only have the sort of physical aspect, which is still impressive, obviously, but to me, that doesn't qualify as prodigy. It qualifies as some talent, nothing spectacular, and just a lot of training at a young age.
#27
Quote by Paleo Pete
You may not like the word talent, but it is an ingredient when it comes to people who are like me. I can't call it anything else, when I could pick up any instrument I wanted to and learn it. No instruction (after being taught guitar), no formal training, and in some cases without even a book of chords or fingerings.

What is it that lets a kid 8 years old sit down on a drum set for the first time ever and actually play the things, not just bang around like a 4 year old with an oatmeal box? That's what I did just watching my cousin play his drum set. Got chewed out for it, nobody told me I could play the drum set, but I just sat down and did it. I have no idea how, it was just there.

That's what a prodigy is. It's more than just being able to play well, it's a built in feel for music, or art or whatever, it's already there for some reason. I learned guitar quicker than anybody I've ever known, an hour and I was playing my first song. I taught kids for a while a few years ago, I had trouble getting them to play one chord decent in an hour. The first time I played bass it was an upright fretless bass, 5 minutes and I could actually play the thing. I had been playing guitar for 10 years, and sax for 3, so I had a background, but still, fretless bass, no formal training whatsoever, and 5 minutes?

That's what talent is. Find the first note and take it from there...pick out the chords to a song from the first note by memory from hearing it on the radio...Sit down on piano and figure out these 3 notes make a chord and take it from there....rather than just banging away on it like a 4 year old will.

A lot of people want to deny it for some reason, but talent definitely has a lot to do with it. I practiced, a lot, sometimes 4 hours a day when I was a kid, especially when I had to learn guitar again after having surgery on the tendon. I practiced in a totally dark room for 2 years, 2 hours a night. But I also had a natural talent for it too, I can't explain it, but it's just there. I pick up an instrument and I can figure it out.

I picked up a mountain dulcimer in a pawn shop one day. Never saw one before, had no idea what it was even called, tinkered with it for a couple of minutes and found out the tuning, a couple of minutes later some little tune popped into my head and I was playing it. The salesman thought I had been playing the thing for years. He refused to believe me when I told him I'd never even seen one before. Didn't even know what it was called...

That's what talent is. I can't explain it or describe it, I just know it's always been there. I pick up a guitar and doodle for a few minutes, a song pops out. I can't think up lyrics to save my life, but the music is there. Talent.

I just realized I goofed, I guess I'm not awake...fretless bass, not stringless...I need more coffee...gig last night, zombie today...

Yeah, I understand. But why I hate the word is because of the people who say somebody is "soooo talented" when they can play something like Wonderwall on guitar. And because of the people who say they are not talented enough to start playing the guitar. Like how can you know without playing it for some time first? And it's kind of an insult to musicians who have worked hard to become so good.

For some it takes longer, that's true, but just look at Robert Fripp - he is a really good example of somebody who used to be very non-musical but became a great guitarist. "Not having talent" is just an excuse.

And as I said, people call every child that can play their instrument pretty well a prodigy. They are words that are used too loosely and incorrectly. Calling somebody who is pretty decent at playing their instrument at a young age a prodigy is an insult to actual prodigies.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#28
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Yeah, I understand. But why I hate the word is because of the people who say somebody is "soooo talented" when they can play something like Wonderwall on guitar. And because of the people who say they are not talented enough to start playing the guitar. Like how can you know without playing it for some time first? And it's kind of an insult to musicians who have worked hard to become so good.

For some it takes longer, that's true, but just look at Robert Fripp - he is a really good example of somebody who used to be very non-musical but became a great guitarist. "Not having talent" is just an excuse.

And as I said, people call every child that can play their instrument pretty well a prodigy. They are words that are used too loosely and incorrectly. Calling somebody who is pretty decent at playing their instrument at a young age a prodigy is an insult to actual prodigies.


I agree that a number of musicians became successful musicians, even as instrumentalists, without being extraordinarily talented, but I think I would have no difficulty in assessing how talented someone was without them knowing any guitar.
#29
Quote by Captaincranky
OTOH, I think people that simply accept what they are taught without question, do better in general than those who question life in all aspects. You can burn up a lot of time and energy continually answering you own, "but why". In other words, those whom "because" works as an answer.

Moving right along to further muddy the waters with mysticism, or as it's known to some, "modern psychology", I think it was Carl Yung who was into a theory of collective consciousness. I believe to some extent, that music as a cultural force, has embedded itself into our DNA.

Arguably, what you do well, you do often, and derive greater satisfaction from those things you do well.

So, if music is part of our collective consciousness, those that tap into it sooner should excel at it, as it's likely already there. The lucky ones get to hitch a ride on the early bus, so to speak.

Musical parents are one of the strongest physical forces acting on children. You rarely hear a successful young person, who can't relate stories of parents amnd relkative who where musical themselves.

Hence the reason you have generations of Carters and Cashes. (This part of the theory could have just as easily gone off on a tangent about nepotism in the music industry).


Good post. IMO, of course.
#30
Quote by Captaincranky
(a) OTOH, I think people that simply accept what they are taught without question, do better in general than those who question life in all aspects. You can burn up a lot of time and energy continually answering you own, "but why". In other words, those whom "because" works as an answer.

(b) Hence the reason you have generations of Carters and Cashes. (This part of the theory could have just as easily gone off on a tangent about nepotism in the music industry).


(a) That may well be true.

On the other hand never questioning anything will have negative consequences as well. Never questioning anything will likely not lead to great art (and music is an art).

(b) lol

Quote by MaggaraMarine
(a) Yeah, I understand. But why I hate the word is because of the people who say somebody is "soooo talented" when they can play something like Wonderwall on guitar. And because of the people who say they are not talented enough to start playing the guitar. Like how can you know without playing it for some time first? (b) And it's kind of an insult to musicians who have worked hard to become so good.

(c) And as I said, people call every child that can play their instrument pretty well a prodigy. They are words that are used too loosely and incorrectly. Calling somebody who is pretty decent at playing their instrument at a young age a prodigy is an insult to actual prodigies.


(a) I agree with PP that there's talent, but I also agree with you that it's annoying when it's used to keep people down- to talk them out of practising or even starting to learn.

(b) I think it depends on the musician- the people who don't like the term talent often consider calling them "talented" an insult, whereas the people who agree that there's talent are often insulted if you say or imply that they're only good because they practised a lot! I don't think there's any one thing you can say which won't annoy someone. EDIT: and also you could argue that arguing in favour of there only being hard work is offensive to people who have genuinely given it a good shot and who never got anywhere. Either extreme is offensive to someone, taken to its logical conclusion (and depending on exactly how you phrase it).

(c) Yeah agreed.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 12, 2015,
#31
Quote by Dave_Mc
(a) That may well be true.

On the other hand never questioning anything will have negative consequences as well. Never questioning anything will likely not lead to great art (and music is an art).

Well, my statement if taken too much as a generality, could also lead one to believe that I think human automatons are a good idea. Sorry for the lack of more background.

I was more specifically referring to individuals who socialize easily, separating that from the philosophical and intellectual aspects of their humanity. (Which concedes your point, and clarifies mine).

IMHO, children learn all too little from what we tell them, and all too much from what they observe about us.

A strong family unit presenting a tacit display of values and work ethic to the potential prodigy, goes further than telling he or she they have to practice while mom and dad, go off to consume a couple of sixers while they watch a football game.

There is a schism between social beliefs, and intellectual perception. It's the kind of thing where you get archaeologists digging up skeletons of our progenitors, and all the while believing in God. Not a bad thing mind you, just a simple paradox.

"A person's faith causes some of the greatest works of art to be created, musically or otherwise". So, the intellect and the belief system cross paths at that point.
#32
It comes down to environment... most children are fascinated with everything, I loves swing music and drawing, but most of my time was spent on a NES, so I kick ass at Diablo II. Great.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#33
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
It comes down to environment... most children are fascinated with everything, I loves swing music and drawing, but most of my time was spent on a NES, so I kick ass at Diablo II. Great.
Indeed. In my neighborhood the children display their fascination with everyday activities and precociousness by handing out bags of crack.
#34
Quote by Captaincranky
Indeed. In my neighborhood the children display their fascination with everyday activities and precociousness by handing out bags of crack.

Nothing like the time old classic "kick the crack". I was so good at that game as a kid.

Lol, just realised that sounds like kicking people up the ass. Oh well, post still works.
The quest for your perfect gear is like being under the surface of a huge, overpowering lake. When you've nearly swam to the light on the surface it shoots far out of your sight again. Still, I'll enjoy the swim. What'd I do if I reached the top?
Last edited by sasquatchjosh96 at Dec 13, 2015,
#36
Quote by sasquatchjosh96
Nothing like the time old classic "kick the crack". I was so good at that game as a kid.

Lol, just realised that sounds like kicking people up the ass. Oh well, post still works.
Well, double entendre is a time honored device in popular music lyrics. So yeah, the post works on two levels....
#37
Quote by Captaincranky
Well, my statement if taken too much as a generality, could also lead one to believe that I think human automatons are a good idea. Sorry for the lack of more background.

I was more specifically referring to individuals who socialize easily, separating that from the philosophical and intellectual aspects of their humanity. (Which concedes your point, and clarifies mine).

IMHO, children learn all too little from what we tell them, and all too much from what they observe about us.

A strong family unit presenting a tacit display of values and work ethic to the potential prodigy, goes further than telling he or she they have to practice while mom and dad, go off to consume a couple of sixers while they watch a football game.

There is a schism between social beliefs, and intellectual perception. It's the kind of thing where you get archaeologists digging up skeletons of our progenitors, and all the while believing in God. Not a bad thing mind you, just a simple paradox.

"A person's faith causes some of the greatest works of art to be created, musically or otherwise". So, the intellect and the belief system cross paths at that point.


i'm not sure digging up skeletons means you have to disbelieve in God, but other than that I agree with you.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?