#1
I am confused about the multitude of options.

I have a tube head, a Zoom g3 and a full range 1x12 speaker.

I can use the zoom for cab sims but I'd also like to expand my options. I was looking at the ADA GCS2/3. I also poked around on Palmer's website and I eventually also discovered the Torpedo Cab Sim.

It appears that some of these devices are marketed at digital recording? I'm not opposed to the idea personally, but mostly I was just looking for ways to make my speaker sound cooler. Like what's up with "DI boxes"? And there are some Palmer load-box devices that split the signal, but it looks like the cab SIM is applied to one output while the other output just passes through to the speaker. Seems like it wouldn't work too well for me.
#3
Speaker sims are pretty much just DIs for guitar use. Depending on the model, they can be placed between an amp and speaker cabinet, behind the amp's line-out or in it's effects loop. Many can be used either way.

The point of them is to have a signal that you can feed directly into a PA or recording interface without having to mic a guitar cabinet. Very useful on stage and for home-recording.
Some modellers have built-in cab sims, but they aren't always great; an external unit comes in handy here.
If you want to run a tube amp without a guitar cab attached, you'll need a load-box to consume the power it produces, otherwise you run the risk of frying the amp's power stage. As you mentioned, some speaker sims come with a load-box built in, but they are available seperately.

If you already have a tube head and just want to play it, simply get a guitar cab.

Quote by diabolical
Maybe if you describe what you want to achieve we can zero in better?

This.
#4
Just to make my speaker sound cool.

I mean... I want what we all want - all the cabs, all the pedals, all the amps.
But realistically I might be able to get better sims.

I'm more of a tinkerer than a player if that helps. I designed and built my tube amp. I at first assumed that it would be a relatively simple filtering issue but it looks like there's some speaker breakup that needs to be modeled as well. I was thinking it would be cool if there were a pedal that I could put after the tube amp but I saw that it would affect the impedance loading on my power tubes and I'm not feeling so good about that.
#5
Quote by paul.housley.7
Just to make my speaker sound cool.

I mean... I want what we all want - all the cabs, all the pedals, all the amps.
But realistically I might be able to get better sims.

I'm more of a tinkerer than a player if that helps. I designed and built my tube amp. I at first assumed that it would be a relatively simple filtering issue but it looks like there's some speaker breakup that needs to be modeled as well. I was thinking it would be cool if there were a pedal that I could put after the tube amp but I saw that it would affect the impedance loading on my power tubes and I'm not feeling so good about that.

A speaker sim is probably not going to help you... it might if your amp was dialed in clean and the sim was placed between your fx unit and the amp.
But honestly, you are headed in the wrong direction with this. Get a guitar cab. Decent used 1x12" units barely cost more than a speaker sim and will actually make your rig sound like a guitar rig.
Sims can't be used to drive a speaker, which seems what you want to do.

EDIT: If you tell us your location, we can try to find you something decent.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Dec 14, 2015,
#6
I would like to get one of those Avatar 1x12s and put an Alnico Blue in it, but I don't believe I'll ever be able to justify purchasing all the other speakers and speaker cabs that interest me. I'm going to have a dedicated "good" guitar cab, but sims might still be cool.

I think you're right though - it would have to be in front of the amp.
#7
Quote by paul.housley.7
I would like to get one of those Avatar 1x12s and put an Alnico Blue in it, but I don't believe I'll ever be able to justify purchasing all the other speakers and speaker cabs that interest me. I'm going to have a dedicated "good" guitar cab, but sims might still be cool.

I think you're right though - it would have to be in front of the amp.

Dude, do you want some advice or do you just want to chat? Cause you're being super obtuse.

Nobody here knows what you mean when you say you want your speaker to sound cool. Cool for what? Jazz, funk, thrash metal?

Avatar makes good cabs and the Alnico Blue is a great speaker, but is it right for you? No idea, but chances are there are some cheaper alternatives that are worth consideration. It is one of the most expensive speakers you can buy, so most people think twice.

Also, what is that amp of yours like. Believe it or not, there are a couple of amp-builders on this board (including me). Would be nice to know what circuits your amp is based on, how it sounds and such.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Dec 14, 2015,
#8
What is even going on in this thread.
The two notes tornado live or studio will do everything you are talking about.
The most important thing you need is a load box that goes after power amp section to act as a load for the power amp.
After that you can do whatever you want.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#11
There are load boxes, on the Recording forum we're discussing that - Suhr has just made one, Mesa Boogie, there's been a Weber load box for a while as well as the Tornado loadbox/speaker sim.

The way you make a speaker cool is by sticking a good amp in front of it. I think maybe you're not doing that?
#12
The "cab" is a Fender Mustang II that I modified. I installed two jacks in the back panel so that it's somewhat like a send and return loop, but it's between the speaker and the amp. Fender does a pretty good job of modeling their own amplifiers and I'll use the Mustang when I want a Fender clean.
The tube amp is based on an 18 watt Marshall. I deleted the single input, but otherwise it's a pretty standard 18 watt until after the PI. The power section has two 6l6 tubes. I also substituted a bridge rectifier The basic sound of the amp is a clean Marshall sound that verges slowly into a tight crunch. I'm sure you can imagine it. Not as much gain as a standard 18 watt but more headroom.

I use the Zoom to apply Marshall patches to the input of the tube amp. I'm not getting precise Marshall tones (for the purists out there) but they're in the right family and I think it sounds awesome.

I'm creating patches that more or less get tones that inspire me, but I'm having a particularly hard time getting my AC30 tones to sound right. I suspect that the speaker situation is a part of the problem. Of course there's a long list of classic tones that my rig can't emulate but for the most part I'm getting the ones that I really want. The tubes provide just enough extra feeling and depth for me.

If I could find a good cab sim pedal that's not too big then I might have room to mount the guts inside the tube amp chassis, and then it would be a tube amp with built in cab sims. Worst case, I just chain it. I could choose between those sims or the ones in the Zoom.

I originally thought I would want to put the cab sim pedal inside the Mustang cab, but that was a mistake. I forgot about the tubes. I apologize for any confusion that caused. I don't want a load box on my output.
Last edited by paul.housley.7 at Dec 14, 2015,
#13
You can have anything you want after the tube amp as long as you have a load box as well.

I don't know of anyone who makes a dummy load and speaker sim in a pedal format.

also the ac30 is one of the most power amp dependent of the classic sounds. preamp patches into a 6l6 power amp isn't really going to do the trick.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#14
Quote by AcousticMirror
You can have anything you want after the tube amp as long as you have a load box as well.

I don't know of anyone who makes a dummy load and speaker sim in a pedal format.

also the ac30 is one of the most power amp dependent of the classic sounds. preamp patches into a 6l6 power amp isn't really going to do the trick.


That last bit is very useful.

The thought had occurred to me that I might have to suck it up and buy a real AC30. I am getting very close to achieving the Fender and Marshall tones that I want but vox is giving me a hard time.
#15
That's a very specific setup you've got there!

Anyway... I take it modifying the amp closer to AC30 specs probably isn't something you'd like to do, since you like it otherwise. (Not to mention it'd be a lot of work.)

Another option would be a speaker-swap or a second cab. Difficult to say what'd make sense in your situation. I'm not super convinced an Alnico Blue would solve the problem on it's own, as there's a lot more to the AC30 than just its speakers. WGS makes a copy of it though if you ever want to take that leap; it's called the "Black and Blue" and is a more affordable option to buyers in the US.
Worth mentioning that the majority of modern day AC30s comes stock with G12M Greenbacks and they still sound like AC-esque enough for most people... don't get too hung up on Alnicos, is what I'm saying.

I'm also not convinced a cab sim will get you closer to your goal. I have a Palmer PDI-09; it's lovely, it's got three voice settings, but whether or not it will get you closer to your goal is anyone's guess. Same goes for other sims.

What I can recommend is probably the cheapest option and will probably appeal to a tweaker like you: Get an EQ-pedal. Like the classic Boss 7-band, of which there are plenty of equally good copies on the market, or the MXR 10-band.

There are also effects pedals that promise AC-tone out of the box, but I'm not sure how well those work.
#16
This really is helpful to me. I'm proud of my rig. I am sure I don't have to list the limitations of solid state and the impossibility of getting one amp that can do every sound, but I am getting a bunch of good ones.

For me I think the secrets were in realizing that I don't need all of the classic Fender sounds, just a few specific ones that happen to be modeled fairly well. And as far as Marshall goes - I love it but I'm not fixated on any particular sound. A ball-park Marshall sound is good enough for me.

The Vox is funny though. It's not my most essential tone to have but it is the one that I'm most picky about. I won't rework my whole amp just to get it but I hope I can figure something out. An eq pedal might be worth looking into.
Last edited by paul.housley.7 at Dec 14, 2015,
#17
Quote by paul.housley.7
I am confused about the multitude of options.

I have a tube head, a Zoom g3 and a full range 1x12 speaker.


What "full range 1x12 speaker" do you have? The Fender doesn't qualify.
Last edited by dspellman at Dec 14, 2015,
#18
Quote by dspellman
What "full range 1x12 speaker" do you have? The Fender doesn't qualify.


I wouldn't argue the point.
I didn't do all that much research into the matter but I did find a reference or two calling it full range, and when I bypass the Zoom it seems that there's a distinctly different voicing on that speaker compared to typical guitar voicing.

I would like to hear your opinion. I'm getting some of what I need from it but it's still an obvious weak point.
#19
Why can't you just buy a speaker to throw into it? Be a lot cheaper and easier than buying a Two Notes Torpedo.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#20
Quote by Cathbard
Why can't you just buy a speaker to throw into it? Be a lot cheaper and easier than buying a Two Notes Torpedo.


I did put one on my Christmas list. :-p

I don't know if I'm getting that or the soldering station. One or the other most likely. I asked for Celestion A-type. I also asked for Hakko 888. Win/win if you ask me.