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#1
and why the hell not?

what actual advantage is there to doing calculations on pen and paper rather than on a computer or calculator?

sure, in early education, doing the problems out on paper can facilitate internalizing the procedure so as to be able to do mental math later on.

but ain't no one gonna do long division in their head and absolutely no one outside of school has said "hey, this calls for long division" rather than whip out a calculator.

what is with this obsession of doing pen and paper calculations? is it simply because it's easy to test for? inertia in an educational system which has failed to adapt to new technologies? a sadistic fetish of math people everywhere? tell me.
#2
not having calculators ensures that you have to know the concepts. on my ti89 i can differentiate equations that take ages by hand (ages meaning like five minutes) so I don't need to understand the theory (for the most part) in order to get the answer


also, I really like it when calculators aren't allowed because then you assume that the math problems given aren't going to have crap numbers in it. Like if you have to do a problem by hand, and after forty minutes you get 8.2384982738427937567028394729837508293928648732958439482 as the answer, you've gone wrong somewhere. a calculator gets in the way there because you could be totally wrong, but not have any indication because you think the answer is just "26^[13/24]/e" or something
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#3
When in school I thought math problems were going to be a much bigger part of everyday adult life. Fucking lying bitches
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#4
Quote by WCPhils
When in school I thought math problems were going to be a much bigger part of everyday adult life. Fucking lying bitches

Yeah, up to basic algebra is all that's really needed.

They had me doing this triangle shit with hippo nooses
#6
Quote by Baby Joel
not having calculators ensures that you have to know the concepts. on my ti89 i can differentiate equations that take ages by hand (ages meaning like five minutes) so I don't need to understand the theory (for the most part) in order to get the answer


maybe we should just be skipping straight to the questions where understanding the concept is central to coming up with the solution, rather than applying them mindlessly simply because we know them.

for example, proofs of mathematical theories.
Last edited by Godsmack_IV at Dec 16, 2015,
#7
You need to do math to impress asshole old men.
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
#8
that can kinda be said for education in general thanks the interweb. computers are not helping anyone use their brain skills
#10
Doing simple mental math and more complicated problems helps to prevent/slow the onset of dementia. So it is definitely not useless even if you have access to a calculator.

I don't know a lot about the specifics of the acquisition of arithmetic skills. But if it's anything like language acquisition, the more you do it and the earlier you start doing it the better it is for your brain.
cat
#11
Quote by Godsmack_IV
maybe we should just be skipping straight to the questions where understanding the concept is central to coming up with the solution, rather than applying them mindlessly simply because we know them.

for example, proofs of mathematical theories.
we should do that for everything then. forget all application problems, just have all classes be fundamental concepts
relabel all foods in the grocery store so it just is "various fruit things and other stuff that grew from trees, some are yellow some are red" "this came from animals" "we made these in factories"
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#12
Quote by Baby Joel
we should do that for everything then. forget all application problems, just have all classes be fundamental concepts
relabel all foods in the grocery store so it just is "various fruit things and other stuff that grew from trees, some are yellow some are red" "this came from animals" "we made these in factories"


a calculator can help you tackle more interesting application problems.
#13
It made sense in Calc I when you had to learn how to draw graphs based on minima/maximum/inflection points and such. It's also a bit useful to learn graph translation and scaling, but I just figured that stuff out with a graphing calculator.

I had to use a shitty little casio with a department stamp throughout engineering school. Some profs didn't care in 4th year, as long as the calculator didn't have memory.

Overall, I didn't feel the need for anything more than the casio by the time I was through so I don't care for graphing calculators.
#14
Quote by Godsmack_IV
a calculator can help you tackle more interesting application problems.

i agree, but there is something to knowing why things work the way they do. i sometimes wonder how much more we need to know.
Last edited by mattedbird at Dec 16, 2015,
#16
It helps us math educators to help correct your miscalculations that would otherwise remain unseen, as well as solidify the concept within your mental processes
#17
I was gonna say the same thing as Baby Joel. The only mathematics I've bothered to take past high school is statistics, so I can't speak about other courses that are more advanced. Some things I remember doing by hand are combinations, variance, standard deviation, standard error of the mean, t-tests (and all different variations of the formula), etc. All of these can be done on a graphic calculator, and it's important to know what you're doing rather than how to have a machine do it for you so you actually learn something beyond that.
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#18
Quote by chrismendiola
I was gonna say the same thing as Baby Joel. The only mathematics I've bothered to take past high school is statistics, so I can't speak about other courses that are more advanced. Some things I remember doing by hand are combinations, variance, standard deviation, standard error of the mean, t-tests (and all different variations of the formula), etc. All of these can be done on a graphic calculator, and it's important to know what you're doing rather than how to have a machine do it for you so you actually learn something beyond that.


calculating the standard deviation by hand only shows that you know the definition of standard deviation. it doesn't show that you understand why it is significant to define it in such a way.
Last edited by Godsmack_IV at Dec 16, 2015,
#21
Quote by Godsmack_IV
a calculator can help you tackle more interesting application problems.

really? i don't really see how it would make things more interesting in an education system.

like I just don't know why allowing calculators would be a 'better' thing. it's not worse by any means, but if you know the math, it's really not gonna bother you if you can or can't use a calculator. like adam said, you just don't really need a graphing calculator. teachers aren't gonna design tests that require crap efforts of written work (to an extent).

like this just kinda seems like a petty thing
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#22
Quote by Baby Joel
it's not worse by any means, but if you know the math, it's really not gonna bother you if you can or can't use a calculator.


it does if you're lazy like me.


i was good at math in school but srsly aint nobdy got time for that
#23
Quote by Baby Joel
really? i don't really see how it would make things more interesting in an education system.


because you can more accurately model real world applications, rather than get stuck doing standard textbook problems that don't reflect real life, and have people saying that math seems pointless as a consequence.
#24
idk you'd have to give me an example cause i really can't think of many.
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it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#25
"How many combinations of watermelons ($0.32 each), pears ($1.30 each), and apples ($0.45 each) can Jane buy with $396.43?"
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#26
Quote by Godsmack_IV
because you can more accurately model real world applications, rather than get stuck doing standard textbook problems that don't reflect real life, and have people saying that math seems pointless as a consequence.

good answer
#27
Quote by Baby Joel
idk you'd have to give me an example cause i really can't think of many.


pretty much every one of my highschool physics labs
#29
Math beyond the basics is mostly dumb and not useful for life.
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#30
Quote by ErikLensherr
Math beyond the basics is mostly dumb and not useful for life.




Math is boring, dumb, and I'd give my life to have it end so that no other will ever have to endure.
#31
what branch of knowledge cannot be deemed "useless" "beyond the basics"?
we need more welders tbh.
#32
Quote by neidnarb11890
what branch of knowledge cannot be deemed "useless" "beyond the basics"?
we need more welders tbh.

Language
#33
i am just wondering, can you articulate for me what we mean when we talk about "use"?? let's be honest -- isn't it really just the "cash value" of knowledge?
#34
I just meant like I've never used it. Not for money or for fun either.
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#35
Quote by neidnarb11890
i am just wondering, can you articulate for me what we mean when we talk about "use"?? let's be honest -- isn't it really just the "cash value" of knowledge?

Nah.
#36
Quote by neidnarb11890
i am just wondering, can you articulate for me what we mean when we talk about "use"?? let's be honest -- isn't it really just the "cash value" of knowledge?

Also, when people say this, I wonder what they mean by "basics." Is it just simple arithmetic, or is it beyond that?

I don't go out of my way to learn math, but I retain what I do have to learn and actually use 'em in real life. I don't personally do DIY, but if you are going to, then geometry would be useful. I've done some work on a few things that are sorta/kinda DIY, and I know I've used a bit of geometry. Sometimes, I go out to dinner with friends and they can't figure out how much to tip on their own. Learning how to do combinations in your head is useful, if you need to plan something. Or converting from one unit of measurement to the other (especially across different systems). Nowadays, you can have your phone do all that for you, I guess. But would any of that be defined as "basic?"
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#37
Quote by Godsmack_IV
but ain't no one gonna do long division in their head

Ah, a lot of people can, that's not particularly hard or rare.

People can look at two numbers and just have them crunch with almost no thought.

What is annoying is being one of these people, and failing math because you tell them it's pointless to write out the work when there's no need for the process.
#38
Quote by stratkat
Ah, a lot of people can, that's not particularly hard or rare.

People can look at two numbers and just have them crunch with almost no thought.

What is annoying is being one of these people, and failing math because you tell them it's pointless to write out the work when there's no need for the process.


are you factoring or doing long division in your head?
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