#1
My friend wanted to get AMP for really low tunings, that can reproduce 24 hz which is low G0. Budget doesnt matter, we can try going 1K $ or more. We're in B standard now, he has GMR and some Warwick Amp i cant name, remember. It soudns Amazing, however, when he goes lower than B0, it farts a little bit.

Any amp you would reccomend ?
#2
Closest cab I know of is the AccuGroove El Whappo Grande, which is a 21" speaker. Goes down to 30Hz, with 24Hz @ -6dB.

EDIT: Actually, the Phil Jones 21B goes down to 20Hz. It's an array of 21 5" speakers. Weighs 55kg though.
Last edited by Deliriumbassist at Dec 28, 2015,
#3
You're pretty much in an inaudible range there. $1K isn't going to come close.

There are small-room subwoofers (for recording playback) that can (according to their marketing fluff) get down to 20Hz. But doing this for a band at band volumes would require an enormous expenditure of power, specialized speakers and custom-designed cabinets.

First, send your friend to an audiologist to see if he can even *hear* a true 24Hz signal.

Your current amp, in attempting to reproduce B0 is likely 1. Running out of power and 2. Unloading the speaker. That "farts a little bit" is likely the speaker cone attempting to exceed its cone excursion limits, which would lead to its destruction IF you had enough power to push it that far.
#6
I'm using an Ashdown ABM1015 cab (2x10 + a 15") and it seems to do a really nice job all the way down to Ab for me. I like to have a lot of mid and high frequency and a bit of crunchiness in my tone though, so it's probably somewhere between the cab, my Sansamp and my Dingwall.
#7
Quote by rockstar256
Whats your point? Every one can hear 20-24 hz, maybe expect 80 yo peeps.


There's a difference between being able to hear and distinguish pitch, you know. Especially at non-ideal conditions. Playing in a band setting would count as a non-ideal condition, by the way. Why do you even need to tune that low though? Like what do you think is the benefit of playing frequencies that low?
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
Last edited by theogonia777 at Dec 28, 2015,
#8
Quote by theogonia777
Why do you even need to tune that low though? Like what do you think is the benefit of playing frequencies that low?


I can't answer for OP, but my thought is just simply feel.
Put it like this; to me Brahms' Hungarian Dance #4 just doesn't feel right to me unless it's in F. Same as Pachelbel's Canon is always in D. It just sounds right.
Intimidating, dark sounding orchestral music is often written for basses, cellos, tubas and trombones because it sounds big and powerful. I think the same goes for guitar oriented music.
If you want to shake the room and just sound powerful, lower ranges make it easier because you don't need to layer things up so much to sound full (unless you're Devin Townsend, who plays low and layers lots(and sounds fucking amazing)).

That's just my thoughts though. I personally play in whatever tuning sounds right for the mood of the song
#9
Quote by rockstar256
Whats your point? Every one can hear 20-24 hz, maybe expect 80 yo peeps.


No, they can't. But that's not really the point.

You don't really need a system that reproduces 24 Hz. Most bass amp systems don't really reproduce much under 35Hz, and they don't even reproduce that very well. You'll find most specs list those bottom numbers as -6dB or -10dB, meaning that they're being reproduced (if at all) at half the volume of higher notes and that's usually optimistic marketing at that.

Instead, most folks "hear" those notes by hearing the combination (it's a math thing) of harmonics that *indicate* the note to the human ear. Same thing happens with guitar amps. Downtuners think they're plumbing the depths of filth and all, but the truth is most guitar speakers can't really reproduce frequencies much below 100Hz, and they're lucky if a low E on a six-string ever actually shows up as a fundamental.

Yes, you can whack the B string of a 7-string and a sound will come out. And it'll sound low. But if you read it on an RTA (Real Time Analyzer), you'll see a bunch of frequencies in the low mids (and even in the high mids), but no low B fundamental.

Most bass players consider frequencies below about 35Hz inaudible, at the very least for the purposes of a band performance. And so they'll install an HPF with a slope of about 24 dB to prevent the amp trying to output those frequencies and wasting power in the attempt. Remember that a speaker needs to move at least four times the air to reproduce a note an octave down (say, a 24 Hz note compared to a 48Hz note). That takes a huge amount of power, whether the speaker is actually capable or not.

Here's some of what we're talkin'. http://www.ispproaudio.com/product/subwoofers/
These are pro audio subwoofers, and in order to reproduce bass at the volumes you need, you'll be using anywhere from 600W (rock bottom cheapest available, but nowhere near 24 Hz) to 3000W (still nowhere near 24Hz).

The short of it is, it ain't gonna happen. And certainly not for a grand. And it doesn't need to; there's really no point. No one will hear that fundamental.
#10
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Closest cab I know of is the AccuGroove El Whappo Grande, which is a 21" speaker. Goes down to 30Hz, with 24Hz @ -6dB.

EDIT: Actually, the Phil Jones 21B goes down to 20Hz. It's an array of 21 5" speakers. Weighs 55kg though.


They're not available in EU
#11
There is a new ish company out that actually has an amp that will produce down to 20Hz and it is and was tested that way. The DNA 1350. David Nordschow (the David from David Eden) has started a new company after selling off Eden to Washburn quite a few years ago. The amps are actually tested down to 20Hz. Amazing tone. Huge!! Only 7 pounds as well.
http://dnaamps.com/
Mongo only Pawn in game of life
#12
I never really got the tone I wanted from digital power.

I have settled on my Arena Rack running 2x Genz Benz GBE1200's. The deal was the tone created by Copper Toroidal transformers, which I believe affect tone in comparison to the digital power supplies.

You have to consider the limitations of all components in any system.

The phenomena on low end appears to be that the accumulation of mass, or masses of speakers, allows reproduction of lower wavelengths, as lower wavelengths are naturally longer.

I believe I had great success with 8 12" Genz Benz NeoX speakers in two stacks of 1x212 and 2x112. (Jeff Genzler callled it quite an arsenal.)

Last night played Taproot's Poem for people for the first time, and while I was not hitting a low F# or even an Ab, the Yamaha PB-1, GBE1200 power section, and NeoX212 appeared to stun
people with how brutal low end could get from a little box, and the bass was at 4 on the EQ.

The Police came.

While there is little doubt that biamped systems such as those played by the late John Entwistle got some of the lowest low end ever, the Phil Jones 21x5" appears to the ultimate subwoofer of our time, yet line array cabinets are get more and more capable by the passing of generations.

Looking in the direction of sound re-enforcement subs is going to be the easiest bet, cost and haul value.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
#13
Quote by iriegnome
There is a new ish company out that actually has an amp that will produce down to 20Hz and it is and was tested that way. The DNA 1350. David Nordschow (the David from David Eden) has started a new company after selling off Eden to Washburn quite a few years ago. The amps are actually tested down to 20Hz. Amazing tone. Huge!! Only 7 pounds as well.
http://dnaamps.com/


I'd be interested in knowing where you actually heard one of these in person (the dealer in Redondo Beach doesn't have any, nor does he know when they'll get one of them, nor does he know what they'll cost yet).

Almost all bass *amps* will produce a 20 Hz signal.

None of DNA's speaker cabinets will reproduce it.

The best that David Nordschow will even *claim* they'll do is 32Hz, and I'm betting that's going to be nearly -10dB.
He's using some of the same drivers that appear in the fEARless and fEARful cabinets.

By comparison, it's worth noting that the BX1500 and BX1600 Carvin bass amps produce 1500 and 1600W, respectively, at 4 ohms (bridged, mono) at price points of $399 and $499. Both are tested to plus or minus 1 dB from 20Hz to 20Khz and weigh in at around 10 lbs. In short, an amp producing 20Hz output is nothing special. It's the speaker cabinets that don't.

The upshot is that these are nothing particularly special, nor will they accomplish what the OP thinks he wants.
Last edited by dspellman at Jan 10, 2016,
#14
Quote by Sliide90027


Looking in the direction of sound re-enforcement subs is going to be the easiest bet, cost and haul value.


That's why I suggested he look at the ISP Technologies subwoofers, none of which are likely to be within his budget and none of which reproduce 24 hz.
#15
Quote by Sliide90027
I never really got the tone I wanted from digital power.

I have settled on my Arena Rack running 2x Genz Benz GBE1200's. The deal was the tone created by Copper Toroidal transformers, which I believe affect tone in comparison to the digital power supplies.

You have to consider the limitations of all components in any system.

The phenomena on low end appears to be that the accumulation of mass, or masses of speakers, allows reproduction of lower wavelengths, as lower wavelengths are naturally longer.

I believe I had great success with 8 12" Genz Benz NeoX speakers in two stacks of 1x212 and 2x112. (Jeff Genzler callled it quite an arsenal.)

Last night played Taproot's Poem for people for the first time, and while I was not hitting a low F# or even an Ab, the Yamaha PB-1, GBE1200 power section, and NeoX212 appeared to stun
people with how brutal low end could get from a little box, and the bass was at 4 on the EQ.

The Police came.

While there is little doubt that biamped systems such as those played by the late John Entwistle got some of the lowest low end ever, the Phil Jones 21x5" appears to the ultimate subwoofer of our time, yet line array cabinets are get more and more capable by the passing of generations.

Looking in the direction of sound re-enforcement subs is going to be the easiest bet, cost and haul value.

I've biamped using my Ashdown RPM1 with the variable built in electronic crossover into two powered cabs.
One thing to consider is the amplifier you need more watts lower you want to go.
A clipping low wattage amplifier can cause damage to your speakers they don't like square waves from a clipping output stage.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#16
Carvin's B2000 has a sub-bass control that really brings out the lowest of the low end. Take a look at it.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#17
Quote by FatalGear41
Carvin's B2000 has a sub-bass control that really brings out the lowest of the low end. Take a look at it.


That's NOT what it does. Take another look at it.
#18
Quote by dspellman
That's NOT what it does. Take another look at it.


I realize that the sub-bass control is not specifically designed for that. But it certainly does bring out the lowest of the low end. I know because I have one. Get one and try some down-tuned stuff. You will see what I mean.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#19
Quote by FatalGear41
I realize that the sub-bass control is not specifically designed for that. But it certainly does bring out the lowest of the low end. I know because I have one. Get one and try some down-tuned stuff. You will see what I mean.


I have had one. That's why I'm telling you it doesn't do what you think it does. It's a 40Hz control. Ask Carvin. And it's not going to help the OP get anywhere near 24 hz. BTW, what speaker cabinets are you using?
Last edited by dspellman at Jan 13, 2016,