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#1
Hi guys!

Finally have the IRT Studio running on the Laney GS212pe (celestion v30 yeah )

It's been a few days since I received the cab but i was testing the amp the last weekend and wanted to check how it sounded fully cranked, this is what I get:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Dp2VII_hX4cTQ0SWZIU0djSTA/view?usp=sharing

Setting are barely noticeable on the video, dont remember the exact eq settings, but i cranked volume knob all the way up and the gain was 8 over 10 if im not mistaken.

Now I know I maybe a bit paranoic but if you see the video, there are two different noises, the first one you can hear it in second 3 of the video as I turn to the bridge pickup... then ant second 7 starts another sharping noise, that's the one I don't know if its feedback or what...

The first noise I assume is the feedback noise and it stops or at least is barely noticeable when I star playing some notes or strumming a chord, the second noise, the sharp one, is still hearable even when playing notes or strumming...

Si I'd like to ask you once more what you think about this?

Im actually saving to get a good noise supressor, don't know if the boss ns-2 is really worth it as people says it's not that good but to get a ISP decitor G string, to suppres both loop and front of the amp noise, is really expensive here in Mexico.

I emailed laney and they answered me this:

"I think you may be asking a little too much from the amp as it will tend to feedback at high levels, the amp will also be effected by the distance the guitar is from the amp due to magnetic fields generated, also the quality of the guitar lead can cause issues.
Please check the input socket jack nuts are tight to the fascia panel.


I do not think the Boss will help as it’s not actual noise you are experiencing."

Im not sure if it is the guitar cable, but I'll buy a new one to test, I also played as far as I could, my cable is 10 feet long so that was as far as I could get.

About the "input socket jack nuts" im not sure what does he mean but the hole on the amp where you plug the guitar is fine to me...

Also he says the noise supressor wont help me as it isnt noise... can someone explain me why it isn't noise? I mean... if that sharp sound isn't noise, what is it then?

How can I test if this is a problem with the amp or the guitar?
someone told me it could be a microphonic pre amp tube... but I also have heard about guitar pick ups being microphonic and that means you have to change it

I play with a PRS S2 Cu24.

The noise goes especially louder when using the bridge pick up, the neck one helps a bit but doesn't solves it...

Well that's all I remember about this issue right now, hope you can help me to solve this... I just want to be sure there nothing wrong with the amp...

Thanks guys!

P.D. Acording to the email from Laney... I guess the guy means that I shouldn't play this amp at full volume and full gain (as he states "I think you may be asking a little too much from the amp as it will tend to feedback at high levels"...) but I need to turn the gain all the way up so the palm mutes and artificial harmonics can sound good, with less gain is a bit hard to make the harmomics scream. Am I wrong in something in here?

Thanks guys, I really apreciate all you help!
Last edited by carpercen at Jan 14, 2016,
#2
That is feedback because the amp is too loud and the guitar is too close. A noise suppressor will not help because what they do is just cut the signal completely when the signal reaches a certain low volume threshold. That loud screeching is of a high volume level, it will pass the threshold.
Quote by carpercen
Acording to the email from Laney... I guess the guy means that I should play this amp at full volume and full gain (as he states "I think you may be asking a little too much from the amp as it will tend to feedback at high levels"...) but I need to turn the gain all the way up so the palm mutes and artificial harmonics can sound good, with less gain is a bit hard to make the harmomics scream. Am I wrong in something in here?
No you do not, or at least you shouldn't need the master cranked. Try getting a tubescreamer-esque overdrive like the Digitech Bad Monkey, and use it to boost the amp. Gain low, Level high. That will help give you the saturation and sustain you want.
Last edited by Will Lane at Jan 14, 2016,
#3
Quote by Will Lane
That is feedback because the amp is too loud and the guitar is too close. A noise suppressor will not help because what they do is just cut the signal completely when the signal reaches a certain low volume threshold. That loud screeching is of a high volume level, it will pass the threshold.No you do not, or at least you shouldn't need the master cranked. Try getting a tubescreamer-esque overdrive like the Digitech Bad Monkey, and use it to boost the amp. Gain low, Level high. That will help give you the saturation and sustain you want.


Yeah, im saving for a TS or Maxon 808 actually... but enganging it will affect the the clean channel also right?

I made a test with a Metal Muff pedal... don't know if its the same effect as the TS, but yeah, I enable it, zero distortion, a bit of volume, use it with the MM boost and without it, booth scenarios distorted the clean channel too much...

I guess I can easy fix that by placing the the pedal (Ts, Maxon, even MM) right next to the Laney footswitch, so I can hit both switches when changing to clean mode right?

But then... what is the best set up to avoid that noise?

Is it wrong to run an amp with full gain and volume then?

Is this normal on all the tube amps?

Thanks for your answer! I really apreciate it!
#4
Quote by Will Lane
That is feedback because the amp is too loud and the guitar is too close. A noise suppressor will not help because what they do is just cut the signal completely when the signal reaches a certain low volume threshold. That loud screeching is of a high volume level, it will pass the threshold.No you do not, or at least you shouldn't need the master cranked. Try getting a tubescreamer-esque overdrive like the Digitech Bad Monkey, and use it to boost the amp. Gain low, Level high. That will help give you the saturation and sustain you want.



Btw, little edit, I should have write "I shouldn't" instead of "should" when talking about the email I received from Laney.

THanks!
#5
For some reason I can't get the video to load but I don't think I need to hear it based on everything else you've posted.

I'm going to agree with Will.

If you stand close to an amp (specifically the speakers) you will get feedback. Sometimes that feedback is good, and sometimes that feedback is bad. The pickups on your guitar can pick up the sound coming out of your speakers directly and then shoot that sound/noise right back into your amp. That's why it is called feedback. It is possible your pickup is microphonic but unlikely. Try a different guitar with everything else the same.

Try backing away from your amp turn down the volume and gain.

If you turn up the gain and volume all of the way up you will just exasperate the problem above. Really, you should never have to crank up both of those to get what you want out of an amp. If you do, you may have the wrong amp (aka wrong tools) but I don't think that is the case here. That same basic amp is what Killswitch Engage used on their last album/tour (they used IRT combos IIRC) and they have plenty of gain. They also use a Tubescreamer (or two ) so I also agree with Will on that point. I actually recommend a Digitech Bad Monkey because they are cheaper, they boost more cleanly, and they have more tone control. For this you set the pedal gain to '0' and level to '10'

With an amp like that I would probably just put the EQ controls on 12 noon, the Gain at around 1 - 3 o'clock and the volume to taste - probably 9 - 11 o'clock.

You should not need a noise suppressor or noise gate to get chunky palm mutes. Although I've considered getting one myself you shouldn't need it to get palm mutes. That may be more of a function of your technique and the distance from your amp.

It IS very possible that you have a microphonic preamp tube. I'm guess you have Chinese preamp tubes in there but if you want to look that would be good to know. If you are interested in learning more about this aspect we can help there too as preamp tubes are easy to test and are only $10-$20.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jan 14, 2016,
#6
Quote by carpercen
Yeah, im saving for a TS or Maxon 808 actually... but enganging it will affect the the clean channel also right?

I made a test with a Metal Muff pedal... don't know if its the same effect as the TS, but yeah, I enable it, zero distortion, a bit of volume, use it with the MM boost and without it, booth scenarios distorted the clean channel too much...

I guess I can easy fix that by placing the the pedal (Ts, Maxon, even MM) right next to the Laney footswitch, so I can hit both switches when changing to clean mode right?

But then... what is the best set up to avoid that noise?

Is it wrong to run an amp with full gain and volume then?

Is this normal on all the tube amps?

Thanks for your answer! I really apreciate it!
Yes, if you have the pedal on and you use channel switching, it will affect whatever channel you are currently on. You'll just need to turn it off when you go to clean channel.

Tubescreamer-based OD's really do not add that much gain, they just boost the output level which drives tubes harder (when set gain low, volume high). So in comparison to the MM on the clean channel, you will not notice the TS as much on the clean channel, in fact you might like the bit of "life" the TS might give you.

And the best set up to avoid feedback noise is to turn the master volume of the amp down.
Last edited by Will Lane at Jan 14, 2016,
#7
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
For some reason I can't get the video to load but I don't think I need to hear it based on everything else you've posted.

I'm going to agree with Will.

If you stand close to an amp (specifically the speakers) you will get feedback. Sometimes that feedback is good, and sometimes that feedback is bad. The pickups on your guitar can pick up the sound coming out of your speakers directly and then shoot that sound/noise right back into your amp. That's why it is called feedback. It is possible your pickup is microphonic but unlikely. Try a different guitar with everything else the same.

Try backing away from your amp turn down the volume and gain.

If you turn up the gain and volume all of the way up you will just exasperate the problem above. Really, you should never have to crank up both of those to get what you want out of an amp. If you do, you may have the wrong amp (aka wrong tools) but I don't think that is the case here. That same basic amp is what Killswitch Engage used on their last album/tour (they used IRT combos IIRC) and they have plenty of gain. They also use a Tubescreamer (or two ) so I also agree with Will on that point. I actually recommend a Digitech Bad Monkey because they are cheaper, they boost more cleanly, and they have more tone control. For this you set the pedal gain to '0' and level to '10'

With an amp like that I would probably just put the EQ controls on 12 noon, the Gain at around 1 - 3 o'clock and the volume to taste - probably 9 - 11 o'clock.

You should not need a noise suppressor or noise gate to get chunky palm mutes. Although I've considered getting one myself you shouldn't need it to get palm mutes. That may more of a function of your technique and the distance from your amp.

It IS very possible that you have a microphonic preamp tube. I'm guess you have Chinese preamp tubes in there but if you want to look that would be good to know. If you are interested in learning more about this aspect we can help there too as preamp tubes are easy to test and are only $10-$20.



What is a good distance between amp and guitar to avoid this kind of stuff?
As I say, my cable is 10feet long and in the video I was as far as it let me be... so I was 10 feet away from the amp with no difference between being next to it and being 10 feet away...

Now i actually want to swap tubes as the sound I get from the amp I feel lacks agressivenes and crunch... (but I may be wrong and have to play with it more). It also sounds very compressed, but that makes the distortion sound amazingly clean and warm... and that it's great specially for clean sweeps, but I have struggled to get the a crunchy sound like RIP from Megadeth...

But again... I may be just using the eq wrong as I tend to turn the bass all the way up... treble at 2 0'clock and middle between 10 and 2 o'clock...
#8
Quote by Will Lane
Yes, if you have the pedal on and you use channel switching, it will affect whatever channel you are currently on. You'll just need to turn it off when you go to clean channel.

Tubescreamer-based OD's really do not add that much gain, they just boost the output level which drives tubes harder (when set gain low, volume high). So in comparison to the MM on the clean channel, you will not notice the TS as much on the clean channel, in fact you might like the bit of "life" the TS might give you.

And the best set up to avoid feedback noise is to turn the master volume of the amp down.



I really want a TS... actually which one you think is the best?
TS9, TS808, Maxon OD9 or Maxon OD808?
Or the bad monkey can perform as well as the above ones?

And about the master, the Ironheart series don't have a master volume, instead they have a volume knob for every chanel, clean, rhythm and lead, rhythm and lead have its own gain knob also!
#9
^ The volume knob on each channel should be the master volume for each channel. The clean channel just has volume because there is meant to be little to no distortion. The gain knob on the rhythm and lead is the preamp distortion. Crank the preamp distortion on the lead channel and put the master to a reasonable listening volume, you should have plenty of distortion.

Get the Bad Monkey if you want to save a bit of money. Get the TS9 if you have the money to spend. They are all very similar and do pretty much the same thing. The higher-price units could just be considered to do it a bit better.

As far as distance goes, it depends. But if you are facing the amp at any distance, you are prone to get feedback. Just turn the main volume of the channels down. It will save your ears and tubes.

And with tube swaps: You are likely not going to hear a drastic change with tubes unless they are very old and worn/broken.
#10
Quote by Will Lane
^ The volume knob on each channel should be the master volume for each channel. The clean channel just has volume because there is meant to be little to no distortion. The gain knob on the rhythm and lead is the preamp distortion. Crank the preamp distortion on the lead channel and put the master to a reasonable listening volume, you should have plenty of distortion.

Get the Bad Monkey if you want to save a bit of money. Get the TS9 if you have the money to spend. They are all very similar and do pretty much the same thing. The higher-price units could just be considered to do it a bit better.

As far as distance goes, it depends. But if you are facing the amp at any distance, you are prone to get feedback. Just turn the main volume of the channels down. It will save your ears and tubes.

And with tube swaps: You are likely not going to hear a drastic change with tubes unless they are very old and worn/broken.



Thanks! You are really helping me a lot in here! I want to order the Bad Monkey right now... it is half the price of a Maxon or TS... I really want one of those but I need to be realistic... that's much for me... the dollar goes higher and it affects mexican economy a lot

On the other side... I can buy the Bad Monkey and the Boss NS-2 for almost the same price as the TS
#11
Quote by Will Lane
^ The volume knob on each channel should be the master volume for each channel. The clean channel just has volume because there is meant to be little to no distortion. The gain knob on the rhythm and lead is the preamp distortion. Crank the preamp distortion on the lead channel and put the master to a reasonable listening volume, you should have plenty of distortion.

Get the Bad Monkey if you want to save a bit of money. Get the TS9 if you have the money to spend. They are all very similar and do pretty much the same thing. The higher-price units could just be considered to do it a bit better.

As far as distance goes, it depends. But if you are facing the amp at any distance, you are prone to get feedback. Just turn the main volume of the channels down. It will save your ears and tubes.

And with tube swaps: You are likely not going to hear a drastic change with tubes unless they are very old and worn/broken.



Hey man! I was thiking about getting the Bad monkey, but found a MXR Custom Modified Badass used at the same price!

Do you think the MXR would be betteR?
#13
Quote by Will Lane
^Nah, I would say just go with the Bad Monkey.


Why is that?

The MXR seems to be better... just found a new one, same price as the Bad monkey... but it also has the Bump button plus the 100h cut/bost knob...

why is that the Bad Monkey beats the MXR?

one thing to note is that I want to preserve clarity on my clean channel for arpeggios!


Thanks!
#14
That MXR series, although good for the price, is considered somewhat fizzy or harsh. At both the Bad Monkey's and the MXR's price it is hard to really go wrong. The Bad Monkey is TS-based which is generally the kind of pedal people use to boost heavy tones.
#15
Quote by Will Lane
That MXR series, although good for the price, is considered somewhat fizzy or harsh. At both the Bad Monkey's and the MXR's price it is hard to really go wrong. The Bad Monkey is TS-based which is generally the kind of pedal people use to boost heavy tones.



For better metal tones, progressive and neoclassical stuff.. either will do? or bad monkey offers best sound?
#16
I wasn't overly fond of my bad monkey. It had pretty bad buffer whwn off and it was full of tonesuck.

I haven't tried the mxr though.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#17
Quote by trashedlostfdup
I wasn't overly fond of my bad monkey. It had pretty bad buffer whwn off and it was full of tonesuck.

I haven't tried the mxr though.


I haven't also, and that kind of stuff is really hard to find here in Mexico so I only count on all the help I can get from you guys in here!

To me... the MXR seem to be more quality than the Bad Monkey and at the same price... seems to have more features also. And any of them are almost half the price of a TS or Maxon...

But I really dont want to buy something and regret later...
#18
Quote by carpercen
I haven't also, and that kind of stuff is really hard to find here in Mexico so I only count on all the help I can get from you guys in here!

To me... the MXR seem to be more quality than the Bad Monkey and at the same price... seems to have more features also. And any of them are almost half the price of a TS or Maxon...

But I really dont want to buy something and regret later...
I think both would be useful to you. If you would rather the MXR that is fine.
#20
No one mentioned this, so I'll just add; if you can't get artificial harmonics to sound out cleanly on the clean channel or a low gain setting then your technique is not up to par. Gain and distortion just make the harmonics louder.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#21
That is just normal feedback by the sounds of it. It isn't microphonics because the frequency changes. That is simply what happens when you stand in front of a loud amp - ANY loud amp. I often play with that sort of feedback. To cope with that you need to learn how to mute the strings that you don't want to ring out with feedback. It's a technique issue.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#22
Quote by trashedlostfdup
I wasn't overly fond of my bad monkey. It had pretty bad buffer whwn off and it was full of tonesuck.

I haven't tried the mxr though.

This. The Bad Monkey is a tone sucker.

If you want low cost go Joyo Vintage Overdrive. It's a Maxon OD-808 clone.

I had both the Joyo and Bad Monkey. Sold the Bad Monkey. Then bought a Budda Zenman overdrive and clean boost in one.
Guitars:
Ibanez RG1570 Prestige
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#23
I dumped my Bad Monkey for the same reason. Now I am using either a Timmy or a Toyroom OD1+.
But his problem is simply a volume one. If you don't want it to feedback, turn down the volume or as I said, learn to mute your strings when not actually playing them. How do you think people play a cranked plexi? It's technique. Playing with lots of feedback is an acquired skill.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#24
^All very true.

TS - what kind of hearing protection did you use?
Guitars:
Ibanez RG1570 Prestige
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#25
Quote by Cathbard
I dumped my Bad Monkey for the same reason. Now I am using either a Timmy or a Toyroom OD1+.
But his problem is simply a volume one. If you don't want it to feedback, turn down the volume or as I said, learn to mute your strings when not actually playing them. How do you think people play a cranked plexi? It's technique. Playing with lots of feedback is an acquired skill.


i do agree. however, maybe he thinks he needs the gain stupid high to get the tone how he wants it because he is unknowingly compensating for a boost to get the tone he wants.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#26
Quote by Cathbard
I dumped my Bad Monkey for the same reason. Now I am using either a Timmy or a Toyroom OD1+.
But his problem is simply a volume one. If you don't want it to feedback, turn down the volume or as I said, learn to mute your strings when not actually playing them. How do you think people play a cranked plexi? It's technique. Playing with lots of feedback is an acquired skill.



First thing I thought when it happened, is it was due to the strings... I mute 'em... sharpy sound still ring, like crazy.

Yesterday I tested the amp, turn ir on, no guitar plugged, checking how noisy was the amp by itself, full gain and starts noising... like when you're trying find a freq on radio, something like "shhhh", buzzing I guess... started cranking the volume, and it went from bearable to annoying, but no other noise, so yeah, the problem it's I cranked it too much.

Good amp, too much compresion, but good amp!
#27
Quote by metalmingee
^All very true.

TS - what kind of hearing protection did you use?


Earphones, the ones that cover all the ear... although they aren't labeled as ear protection or isolation, they really make a difference... Still I want to try better ones and if you have any recommendation Id be glad to read it!
#28
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i do agree. however, maybe he thinks he needs the gain stupid high to get the tone how he wants it because he is unknowingly compensating for a boost to get the tone he wants.



You mean and OD pedal as boost?

Yeah, I think I need one of those to add some atack and chrunch...
As I play mostly near midnight from monday to friday, y use 1w mode and low volume... I noticed this issue on weekend when I was able to hear how it sounded fully cranked. One thing I notices is that at low volumes it sound more agressive, more "crunchy" than when I turned volume up (in 1w and 15w mode). Like it became dull... no chugga chugga feeling on palm mutes. Maybe just because I set eq for low volume needed to re-eq once I cranked the volume but couldn't test it as I focused on the noise issue.

But overall, yes. I need a OD to boost it.

Thanks!
#29
Quote by carpercen
First thing I thought when it happened, is it was due to the strings... I mute 'em... sharpy sound still ring, like crazy.

Yesterday I tested the amp, turn ir on, no guitar plugged, checking how noisy was the amp by itself, full gain and starts noising... like when you're trying find a freq on radio, something like "shhhh", buzzing I guess... started cranking the volume, and it went from bearable to annoying, but no other noise, so yeah, the problem it's I cranked it too much.

Good amp, too much compresion, but good amp!
That is a different type of noise. It could be considered just latent signal interference from lights, circuitry, etc. Distortion (the kind that gives you the tones you want) is actually compression at its core. And as such it raises the signal to silly amounts so the signal clips. But that also mean that noise is raised and clipped as well. Feedback is a different type of noise, where the sound from the amp is fed back into the amp, creating layers and layers of noise laid on top of itself which gets to full intensity in just a small moment. At least those are my descriptions, although from a technical aspect I am leaving some stuff out.

You keep saying your amp is too compressed. What do you mean by that? Your "chugga chugga" is not coming out how you expect it to? As we said, a boost will help that. I hope your MXR is on the way.

As well as the "chugga chugga" you hear on most produced tracks is not all the guitar, in fact that low-end thump you hear is mostly the bass guitar and bass kick drum. The guitar is laden with more mids in those tracks and less bass frequencies than you would think. So when setting up the amp, be sure to use a moderate level of bass and mids, use a clean boost, and put the amp to a moderate listening level.
Last edited by Will Lane at Jan 15, 2016,
#30
Quote by Will Lane
That is a different type of noise. It could be considered just latent signal interference from lights, circuitry, etc. Distortion (the kind that gives you the tones you want) is actually compression at its core. And as such it raises the signal to silly amounts so the signal clips. But that also mean that noise is raised and clipped as well. Feedback is a different type of noise, where the sound from the amp is fed back into the amp, creating layers and layers of noise laid on top of itself which gets to full intensity in just a small moment. At least those are my descriptions, although from a technical aspect I am leaving some stuff out.

You keep saying your amp is too compressed. What do you mean by that? Your "chugga chugga" is not coming out how you expect it to? As we said, a boost will help that. I hope your MXR is on the way.

As well as the "chugga chugga" you hear on most produced tracks is not all the guitar, in fact that low-end thump you hear is mostly the bass guitar and bass kick drum. The guitar is laden with more mids in those tracks and less bass frequencies than you would think. So when setting up the amp, be sure to use a moderate level of bass and mids, use a clean boost, and put the amp to a moderate listening level.



Ok, I found a very important problem here. Translation issues are misleading me... Unfortunately I think I maybe undertanding something wrong... like what I think compresion is and what you describe... unfortunately I'm not sure how to describe what I want to express 100% acurate so we undertand each other...

About the "chugga chugga", its a term I've read on other threads, reviews, videos, etc... but I may be using it the wrong way...

What I tried to express was that I havent managed to get that "scooped" mids agressive sounds like you can hear on Holy wars from megadeth... Here's why I need a "TS like" pedal I suposse...

About the MXR, thanks! I was going to order it right now but after reading the answers in here, I'm kind of interested in the joyo Vintage OD, it costs half the price of the MXR... so we'll see!
#31
^ Actually Megadeth, and lots of other bands along that line, use lots of mids. IMO I don't consider their tone to be scooped at all. Scooped to me is stuff like Korn and Metallica's Black album. If you are trying to scoop your mids that may be part of the problem. Get a boost pedal and a few JJ 12AX7 preamp tubes.


Quote by carpercen
First thing I thought when it happened, is it was due to the strings... I mute 'em... sharpy sound still ring, like crazy.

Yesterday I tested the amp, turn ir on, no guitar plugged, checking how noisy was the amp by itself, full gain and starts noising... like when you're trying find a freq on radio, something like "shhhh", buzzing I guess... started cranking the volume, and it went from bearable to annoying, but no other noise, so yeah, the problem it's I cranked it too much.

Good amp, too much compresion, but good amp!

That sounds like a microphonic preamp tube. I still don't know what kind of tubes you have in there brand wise. Get yourself some decent preamp tubes like JJ or NOS or Ruby.


Quote by carpercen
You mean and OD pedal as boost?

Yeah, I think I need one of those to add some atack and chrunch...
As I play mostly near midnight from monday to friday, y use 1w mode and low volume... I noticed this issue on weekend when I was able to hear how it sounded fully cranked. One thing I notices is that at low volumes it sound more agressive, more "crunchy" than when I turned volume up (in 1w and 15w mode). Like it became dull... no chugga chugga feeling on palm mutes. Maybe just because I set eq for low volume needed to re-eq once I cranked the volume but couldn't test it as I focused on the noise issue.

But overall, yes. I need a OD to boost it.

Thanks!

Yeah. We are talking about using an OD pedal as a boost. Practically a must if you play metal. The amp should respond better as you turn it up I'm thinking you have an EQ or settings issue (like I said earlier). There is no reason to have the gain or the volume cranked to the max. Like Derek said, you may be compensating for not having a boost pedal.


PS: This is the first time I've ever heard anyone really complain of the Bad Monkey. For $50 it is a well built cleaner boosting TS clone and I've never noticed any tone suckage. Admittedly though, I do not have much experience outside of that pedal.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jan 15, 2016,
#32
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
^ Actually Megadeth, and lots of other bands along that line, use lots of mids. IMO I don't consider their tone to be scooped at all. Scooped to me is stuff like Korn and Metallica's Black album. If you are trying to scoop your mids that may be part of the problem. Get a boost pedal and a few JJ 12AX7 preamp tubes.


That sounds like a microphonic preamp tube. I still don't know what kind of tubes you have in there brand wise. Get yourself some decent preamp tubes like JJ or NOS or Ruby.


Yeah. We are talking about using an OD pedal as a boost. Practically a must if you play metal. The amp should respond better as you turn it up I'm thinking you have an EQ or settings issue (like I said earlier). There is no reason to have the gain or the volume cranked to the max. Like Derek said, you may be compensating for not having a boost pedal.


PS: This is the first time I've ever heard anyone really complain of the Bad Monkey. For $50 it is a well built cleaner boosting TS clone and I've never noticed any tone suckage. Admittedly though, I do not have much experience outside of that pedal.



Hi!
According to Laney, the tubes fitted are;

V1 JJ high grade selected
V2,V3 Ruby 12AX7
V4,V5 Ruby EL84

Don't know how good or bad they are... JJ is supossed to be good right? About the rest, I don't know but I was thinking on changing them to see how it sounds with other tubes, but for it I need to save some money first lol.
#33
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
That sounds like a microphonic preamp tube. I still don't know what kind of tubes you have in there brand wise. Get yourself some decent preamp tubes like JJ or NOS or Ruby.
What I understood is that TS was just hearing distortion noise with no guitar plugged in, not the feedback mentioned in the OP. That post was referring to the "shh" sound of a high-gain signal.
Quote by carpercen
Ok, I found a very important problem here. Translation issues are misleading me... Unfortunately I think I maybe undertanding something wrong... like what I think compresion is and what you describe... unfortunately I'm not sure how to describe what I want to express 100% acurate so we undertand each other...
Okay, here is how I understand it. Compression can be considered "squish" applied to an audio signal. It reduces volume peaks and elevates volume troughs (low volume points), so that all parts of the signal become closer and closer to the same volume throughout.

Here is a picture of what compression looks like on an audio waveform.

Hard compression, the kind that causes gain and distortion, involves raising the signal level so high that the signal not only squishes together but the signal clips as well. The peaks and troughs are called "clipped" because they are rounded off.

Here is a picture of what distortion/gain looks like to an audio signal.

I do not think the compression of the amp has anything to do with the sound you are trying to get, as you said you think your amp is "too compressed" but yet you also said you could not get enough gain in your original post. I think your issue is a mixture of EQ setting, gain structure (the OD boost and how the amp is set), and technique.
#34
Quote by carpercen
Hi!
According to Laney, the tubes fitted are;

V1 JJ high grade selected
V2,V3 Ruby 12AX7
V4,V5 Ruby EL84

Don't know how good or bad they are... JJ is supossed to be good right? About the rest, I don't know but I was thinking on changing them to see how it sounds with other tubes, but for it I need to save some money first lol.

Those are decent tubes. Try swapping some of those around and see if you hear any differences either good or bad. Try each combination on both OD and Clean channel. Keep track of what combinations make what changes. Also, try the pencil tapping test on each tube. If you don't know what that means just ask. When you say 'according to Laney' what do you mean? I mean, what is actually there?


Quote by Will Lane
What I understood is that TS was just hearing distortion noise with no guitar plugged in, not the feedback mentioned in the OP. That post was referring to the "shh" sound of a high-gain signal.

Yeah. I didn't assume he was referring to the feedback issue either necessarily. He said the 'shh' sound was like when you are trying to find a radio frequency. So if that 'shhhh' sound is varying at all and sounds like a radio - I would suspect a microphonic preamp tube. A microphonic preamp tube will actually pick up radio frequencies. It can also scream and squeal at you now matter how much you mute the strings.

If the 'shhhh' sound was constant and more of just that normal high gain amp hiss - I wouldn't suspect a microphonic tube as much. Similarly, if the squealing feedback went away when the strings were muted I wouldn't suspect anything was wrong either.

-There are always exceptions.
-It is hard to do this over the internet.
-I could be completely off my rocker - just sharing some of my experiences.
-I never saw the video

For example, I sometimes play into two high gain amps at the same time at pretty much gig volumes and when I mute the strings, everything is pretty dead quiet and I don't have a noise gate. I also take the time to monitor the health of my tubes and rotate as necessary. I stand about 3 - 6ft away from amp.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jan 15, 2016,
#35
Quote by Will Lane
What I understood is that TS was just hearing distortion noise with no guitar plugged in, not the feedback mentioned in the OP. That post was referring to the "shh" sound of a high-gain signal.Okay, here is how I understand it. Compression can be considered "squish" applied to an audio signal. It reduces volume peaks and elevates volume troughs (low volume points), so that all parts of the signal become closer and closer to the same volume throughout.

Here is a picture of what compression looks like on an audio waveform.

Hard compression, the kind that causes gain and distortion, involves raising the signal level so high that the signal not only squishes together but the signal clips as well. The peaks and troughs are called "clipped" because they are rounded off.

Here is a picture of what distortion/gain looks like to an audio signal.

I do not think the compression of the amp has anything to do with the sound you are trying to get, as you said you think your amp is "too compressed" but yet you also said you could not get enough gain in your original post. I think your issue is a mixture of EQ setting, gain structure (the OD boost and how the amp is set), and technique.


Do you think a noise supressor can solve that hum or background noise? because when I use the amp as audio interface to record on pc, that noise is also recorded. I tried a noise gate through guitar rig and seemed to work...


I'll record some clips later today or tomorrow maybe, so you and all the guys can heard different settings of the amp so we understand better.
#36
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Those are decent tubes. Try swapping some of those around and see if you hear any differences either good or bad. Try each combination on both OD and Clean channel. Keep track of what combinations make what changes. Also, try the pencil tapping test on each tube. If you don't know what that means just ask. When you say 'according to Laney' what do you mean? I mean, what is actually there?


Yeah. I didn't assume he was referring to the feedback issue either necessarily. He said the 'shh' sound was like when you are trying to find a radio frequency. So if that 'shhhh' sound is varying at all and sounds like a radio - I would suspect a microphonic preamp tube. A microphonic preamp tube will actually pick up radio frequencies. It can also scream and squeal at you now matter how much you mute the strings.

If the 'shhhh' sound was constant and more of just that normal high gain amp hiss - I wouldn't suspect a microphonic tube as much. Similarly, if the squealing feedback went away when the strings were muted I wouldn't suspect anything was wrong either.

-There are always exceptions.
-It is hard to do this over the internet.
-I could be completely off my rocker - just sharing some of my experiences.
-I never saw the video

For example, I sometimes play into two high gain amps at the same time at pretty much gig volumes and when I mute the strings, everything is pretty dead quiet and I don't have a noise gate. I also take the time to monitor the health of my tubes and rotate as necessary. I stand about 3 - 6ft away from amp.



Ok! That's what Laney engineer told me on email. I haven't opened the unit actualy.

I have read about the pencil test thing. To do it I need to open the amp first (like 20 screws) and gently hit them with the pencil to see if the sound is amplified right?
Now im assuming the amp has to be turned on obviously... and I need to be sure to only hit the tubes right? Other wise I guess I could get shocked and screw the amp.

Now, the power amp tubes are easy to see, but the pre amp ones are inside it's metalic cilinders... do I hit the metal cilinder thing that protects it? or do I have to remove something?

No experience on this things guys... but a friend of mine knows better so I guess I'll pay him a visit. Actually he invited me to check my amp and try other tubes. He recommended that to me as he changed the ones on his 100w Krank head and told me "hey you gotta try this, bring yours to swap 'em also, mine is another beast since I changed them"

In this case Im sure I need to turn off the amp everytime I swap a tube right? I don't think doing this while turned on is an option...


Anyway, all record all the issues with better test so you can see it... right now I swear the squeling noise was there even when muting strings but I maybe wrong... So let's do the right thing and do a proper test.
#37
A noise suppressor between the guitar and the amp will help clamp down a noisy guitar or front end pedals. A noise suppressor in the effects loop will help with a noisy amp or noisy pedals that are in the loop.

If your Laney amp has those exact tubes in it I will be (pleasantly) surprised.

You are correct on the pencil test. You will tap on the tubes and not the cylindar case. To remove the cylinder case you will push it down and turn it a quarter turn clockwise. Roughly. You will be listening for the tapping sound coming from the speaker (not the tube). With a pencil or chopstick etc you won't get electrocuted irregardless of what you touch (wood does not conduct electricity).

It is not a bad idea to turn off the amp while changing tubes (as they can also get hot) but it is not necessary for preamp tubes. Get a decent mechanics type glove and you can make short work of swapping tubes around - even while turned on. Another good practice (as an FYI) is to spray the tube pins with some Dioxit (or similar) contact cleaner.

Sucks that they don't have a door or a tray for the preamp tubes

But yeah - if you have a friend that knows a bit more about all of this - it would be a good idea to do some of this over at his house. Does he have a boost pedal too?

By going over there you can really get some good troubleshooting done. Different tubes, different cabs, different guitars, different pedals, different cables, etc etc. I'm confident you will get this sorted.
#38
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
A noise suppressor between the guitar and the amp will help clamp down a noisy guitar or front end pedals. A noise suppressor in the effects loop will help with a noisy amp or noisy pedals that are in the loop.

If your Laney amp has those exact tubes in it I will be (pleasantly) surprised.

You are correct on the pencil test. You will tap on the tubes and not the cylindar case. To remove the cylinder case you will push it down and turn it a quarter turn clockwise. Roughly. You will be listening for the tapping sound coming from the speaker (not the tube). With a pencil or chopstick etc you won't get electrocuted irregardless of what you touch (wood does not conduct electricity).

It is not a bad idea to turn off the amp while changing tubes (as they can also get hot) but it is not necessary for preamp tubes. Get a decent mechanics type glove and you can make short work of swapping tubes around - even while turned on. Another good practice (as an FYI) is to spray the tube pins with some Dioxit (or similar) contact cleaner.

Sucks that they don't have a door or a tray for the preamp tubes

But yeah - if you have a friend that knows a bit more about all of this - it would be a good idea to do some of this over at his house. Does he have a boost pedal too?

By going over there you can really get some good troubleshooting done. Different tubes, different cabs, different guitars, different pedals, different cables, etc etc. I'm confident you will get this sorted.



First of all, thank you for your answers, you explain everything really well to me.

And yes, it sucks that you need to unscrew everything to swap the tubes. Here's a video so you can have an idea of what I need to do to see the tubes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4lvcJ91U_4

Skip the 2:00 on the video and you'll see, on minute 4:00 you can see the tubes removed and their specific models!

I'll call my friend to see if we can check everything tomorrow about the tubes so we can test everything!
He doesn't have a OD pedal, but he uses a Line 6 M9 an there he can program a Maxon OD so we'll see!

I think I'll try to get a boss ns-2 as the Decimator G string is way too pricey for me. With the cross conections I'm sure it will help reducing that background noise coming from the amp.

I'll report you back tomorrow I hope and will upload some vids about the issues we have discuss so far!
Last edited by carpercen at Jan 15, 2016,
#39
^ You're welcome

Ha. That IRT demo video was somewhat painful but otherwise good at explaining some things for me. I've never played one.

First of all, just so you know, there are only 2 tubes running the preamp. That 3rd ECC83 (12AX7) is acting as a phase inverter and is technically part of the power section. That will be important for you to know down the road but not now. That is also a very common modern amp set up. If someone told me that this amp actually had a solid state phase inverter I'd very surprised indeed. He also seemed to touch things pretty openly inside the chassis there during his video and although he didn't touch anything I wouldn't touch necessarily - it is bad practice, especially for someone doing a youtube demo.

Also, at 4:00 he is holding a JJ tube but he calls it a Ruby. Weird. The power tubes are definitely Ruby EL34s. For the preamp tubes, I would take those covers off and just leave them off for now.

At 14:00 or so where he really digs in on the dirt channel...that is pretty much what I expect out of the amp.

I tried your video again from your first post and yeah, that feedback you are getting is uncontrolled and not what you want obviously. That is not a microphonic preamp tube. Pretty sure anyway. That is just the amp feeding back uncontrollably. Now if your amp continues to do that or it actually is picking up radio signals then I would reconsider the microphonic preamp tube scenario.

If I turn my guitar all the way up and set my amp gain at 1 oclock and the volume at 9 oclock and I don't mute the strings it will do the same thing your amp is doing.

I also noticed that your amp has some sort of 'built in tubescreamer' before the preamp. That explains a lot. If you have that AND the gain AND the volume maxed then no wonder you are getting all of the feedback. Try turning that first knob on the left (boost?) all the way down. Now set the gain at 1 oclock and the volume at 9 oclock. What happens? Now try it again with the gain at 3 oclock and the volume at 12 oclock. What happens?

Then slowly bring this boost control up starting at 9 oclock, then 10, then 12 then 2.

Report back.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jan 15, 2016,
#40
Try a low noise tube in V1 like a JJ ECC803.
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