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#1
Hi guys!

I'm going to buy my first electric guitar... But i can't choose between two electric guitar packs.
The packs are: "Epiphone Les Paul Performance Pack" and the "Epiphone SG goth Performance Pack".

I like to play metal, metalcore, hardcore, deathmetal etc.
So, can you guys tell me wich one is better for that type of music? I know i need to get a thicker gauge guitar strings too.

I have a budget of 300€ (i live in Europe), if you know a better choice of guitar and amp for metal within the budget, i would love to know it too.

Thank you very much
#2
We're not fans of starter packs around here. Better to save more to get a real amp and some beginners guitar separate. Not sure about prices in Europe, but unless you're set on those two guitars shapes, I'd save up enough to get:

- a good amp: Fender Mustang I, Peavey Vypyr VIP 1, Vox VT20X

- a decent entry level guitar: plenty to choose from here from any brand. Since I also like metal I would go with a Jackson JS or a BC Rich Villain Plot.
#3
Quote by dthmtl3
We're not fans of starter packs around here. Better to save more to get a real amp and some beginners guitar separate. Not sure about prices in Europe, but unless you're set on those two guitars shapes, I'd save up enough to get:

- a good amp: Fender Mustang I, Peavey Vypyr VIP 1, Vox VT20X

- a decent entry level guitar: plenty to choose from here from any brand. Since I also like metal I would go with a Jackson JS or a BC Rich Villain Plot.

Thank you very much

What do you think of these two: Jackson JS22 Dinky BLK + Fender Mustang I V.2
#4
Quote by arzakyum
Thank you very much

What do you think of these two: Jackson JS22 Dinky BLK + Fender Mustang I V.2


You won't be very happy with the Mustang for metal. I would recommend a Peavey Vypyr VIP 2 or an used Peavey Vypyr 30. I think they are much better for heavier tones.

You could get away with the Vypyr VIP 1 as well, but the VIP 2 or Vypyr 30 with their 12" speaker will have a better tone.

If you can't afford the VIP 2, the Vypyr 30 runs around 100-120 euros used. They are essentially the same amp, I think the only difference is that the VIP is also an acoustic guitar and bass amp.
Last edited by DanyFS at Jan 14, 2016,
#5
Now we're talking! Much better.

But for metal, you'd have more fun with the Vypyr VIP 1 or 2 of course if it's within budget.
Last edited by dthmtl3 at Jan 14, 2016,
#6
Quote by DanyFS
You won't be very happy with the Mustang for metal. I would recommend a Peavey Vypyr VIP 2 or an used Peavey Vypyr 30. I think they are much better for heavier tones.

You could get away with the Vypyr VIP 1 as well, but the VIP 2 or Vypyr 30 with their 12" speaker will have a better tone.

If you can't afford the VIP 2, the Vypyr 30 runs around 100-120 euros used. They are essentially the same amp, I think the only difference is that the VIP is also an acoustic guitar and bass amp.

How about the Vox VT20X?
#7
The Vox VT20X like all these amps does everything, but the amp models aren't very metal, that's not to say that you can't get metal sounds from it. I understand you can download presets and it comes with some software to modify things.
#8
@arzakyum:

I bought the Epiphone Les Paul Special II starter pack for Xmas in 2014 and had a blast with it. It's a well made instrument and cost me $199 new with a 12 watt practice amp (which sucks, but which DOES have an input which allows me to play along with audio files, which is cool).

The pros: guitar was inexpensive. Was super easy to play compared to what I had been playing before (a Cordoba nylon classical). Learned how to play power chords on it. The guitar is very pretty with a great finish. I expect a lot of cheap plastic parts and shitty soldering is inside...but I never hear any rattling or indications of bad electrical connections. In short...it may be cheap, but it works very well. The knobs are excellent, btw, better than on my more expensive Fender MIM.

The Negatives: the tuners feel cheap. I've heard stories of these guitars going out of tune frequently. I never noticed that problem on mine because I frequently switched tunings anyway (several times per session). The strap buttons have a tendency to loosen over time. Nothing that can't be fixed with a little airplane glue (I don't bother..I just tighten them back up with a screwdriver and move on).

For less than $200 American I really don't think you can do any better. The little Epi will be quite good enough to hone your skills on. So you won't sound as silky as a Gibson...who gives a crap? I want some stank on my music anyway. As for the guys in this forum....closed minded dudes (but not all). They played one of these guitars 10 years ago and in their minds they still suck. QC has come a very long way in the last couple decades. Some of these boys need to go to the local store and pick one of these axes up and play it. I think most would be quite pleasantly surprised.

Regarding the SG....if I have a regret about my Epi it is that I didn't get the SG version. Supposedly much lighter and of course with better access to the higher frets.

I've heard Squier is better than Epiphone with regard to these starter packs, but I don't have experience with them. Plus...screw Fender.
Last edited by TobusRex at Jan 14, 2016,
#9
Quote by arzakyum
How about the Vox VT20X?


It can do lighter gain metal, but for death metal, hardcore, etc, it may not be the best option.

It's much better than the Mustang though. I would still recommend either the Vypyr VIP or an used Vypyr 30...
#11
I'm probably goint to buy the vox then. i love metal but im just a beginner, i'll play metal and some other types of music too! But thank you very much for your help guys!
#12
Epiphone's starter guitars are utter crap. Do not buy them. Horrible.

Uneven frets, sharp fret ends, horrible hardware, pickups, very cheaply constructed.

Can you go used?
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I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
#13
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Epiphone's starter guitars are utter crap. Do not buy them. Horrible.

Uneven frets, sharp fret ends, horrible hardware, pickups, very cheaply constructed.

Can you go used?


I had none of the problems you listed, Blue. Did I get lucky? Maybe, but I think those guitars are probably better than you remember. My experience with electrics is limited though, so I'll defer to your general description.

Not to start a pissing match.....but all the things you said about the cheap Epiphones...I've heard about Gibson. Actually....worse for Gibson because they have no excuse.
#14
Quote by TobusRex
I had none of the problems you listed, Blue. Did I get lucky? Maybe, but I think those guitars are probably better than you remember.

Nah, my experiences have made me greatly dislike them. Sorry if your experiences don't align with that. To each his own.
Not to start a pissing match.....but all the things you said about the cheap Epiphones...I've heard about Gibson. Actually....worse for Gibson because they have no excuse.

What's that got to do with anything? We're not talking about Gibson.

Sounds like you suffer from The Fox and the Grapes-ism.
Quote by Axelfox
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Jan 14, 2016,
#15
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Epiphone's starter guitars are utter crap. Do not buy them. Horrible.

+1 straight up junk. I wouldn't bother.

Rex: if your experience is so limited then learn or don't advise on these topics.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

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alright "king of the guitar forum"


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youre just being a jerk man.



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#16
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Nah, my experiences have made me greatly dislike them. Sorry if your experiences don't align with that. To each his own.

What's that got to do with anything? We're not talking about Gibson.

Sounds like you suffer from The Fox and the Grapes-ism.


Afraid that last went over my head. Never heard that before.

All I'm saying by bringing up Gibson is that even "high end" guitar companies can produce crap. Probably faulty logic on my part, but I was thinking along these lines: I'd rather be disappointed with a cheap guitar than an expensive one.

Thanks for the feedback. Was just curious why you had such strong hate for them.
#17
Yeah, I got I starter pack when I first started out. I got a squier one, and the guitar was not bad for the $$$, but the amp was a POS. The way I understand it, this is generally the case for most starter packs. If I could do it all over again, I would find a mate/relative that knows guitars and go shopping for semi-decent used gear.
^ Probably a load of crap

Gear

PRS SE Custom 24
Fender Squier Strat
Washburn D10SCE

Vox AC30C2
Roland MicroCube
Fender frontman 15G
#18
Quote by trashedlostfdup
+1 straight up junk. I wouldn't bother.

Rex: if your experience is so limited then learn or don't advise on these topics.


Read the first message in this thread. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Now I'm going to ask you....why do you think I talked about the Epiphone Les Paul II guitar?
Last edited by TobusRex at Jan 14, 2016,
#19
The key with cheap guitars is to try a bunch of them and see which you like best. Quality control on guitars varies wildly, none more so than cheap guitars. If you don't have a lot of experience then get a friend who knows how to play to come along and help. They should at least be able to tell if the guitar is playable or not. Other than that you want to avoid guitars with sharp fret ends, obvious dead spots on the fretboard and things that are clearly broken such as broken or noisy electronics, damaged tuning keys, etc.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#20
Quote by arzakyum
Thank you very much

What do you think of these two: Jackson JS22 Dinky BLK + Fender Mustang I V.2


I've used a Fender Mustang III V.2 100 watt 1x12 combo. Loved it. I prefer using it or the Blackstar HT Club 40 when I'm testing guitars at stores. (I play Bullet For My Valentine and Trivium type riffs mostly.) And I love those amps at bedroom volume. I'm sure they can keep up with a non insane drummer. But at that price you can get a used Tube Amp of some form, such as a Peavey Valveking/Triple X/6505+ combo or something. (Which you do not need if you're just getting started.) I recommend the Mustang series though. As for the Jackson I'd stay away from the JS series, but there are definitely worse starter guitars out there.
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Things are better now.


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Style is in the hands. Taste is in the hands. But tone? Tone is in the gear.
#21
Quote by Kevin Saale
The key with cheap guitars is to try a bunch of them and see which you like best. Quality control on guitars varies wildly, none more so than cheap guitars. If you don't have a lot of experience then get a friend who knows how to play to come along and help. They should at least be able to tell if the guitar is playable or not. Other than that you want to avoid guitars with sharp fret ends, obvious dead spots on the fretboard and things that are clearly broken such as broken or noisy electronics, damaged tuning keys, etc.


^This
Make sure you (or a guitarist friend) has played the exact instrument you are buying before you get it.
^ Probably a load of crap

Gear

PRS SE Custom 24
Fender Squier Strat
Washburn D10SCE

Vox AC30C2
Roland MicroCube
Fender frontman 15G
#22
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Nah, my experiences have made me greatly dislike them. Sorry if your experiences don't align with that. To each his own.

What's that got to do with anything? We're not talking about Gibson.

Sounds like you suffer from The Fox and the Grapes-ism.


+1 it is experience from time. Which I don't think tobus has.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#23
What do you think of the Blackstar ID Core 10 or Fender Champion 20?
Last edited by arzakyum at Jan 15, 2016,
#24
Quote by arzakyum
What do you think of the Blackstar ID Core 10 or Fender Champion 20?


Have no experience with the Fender Champion, but I think the Peavey VIP 2/Vypyr 30 or the Vox would be better than the Blackstar.
#25
Since you are in the UK, the blackstar ID Core would also be a good choice for a starter amp and will give you clean or metal (and in between) options.
#26
^ I don't think he's in the UK, he listed euros. and most people in the uk would say they're from the UK rather than europe (while the UK is in europe, we tend to use "europe" to mean continental europe ).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#28
Always consider why beginner packs exist. They exist because parents are leery of spending big chunks of money on an instrument and amp, knowing full well that they'll be out a ton of cash if their kid ends up not playing. Manufacturers know this, so they shove a bunch of cheap crap into a box, they make a profit, the buyer isn't out too much cash when the kid goes on to their next interest.

If you seriously want to play an instrument... why would you buy that? It's a package created with the understanding that it is a 50/50 shot that the buyer will continue playing beyond the first year... hell, even the first three months.

Individuals who are serious about learning to play an instrument need to look past the beginner level stuff and look at the mid-range used market. That is where the best bang for buck is. Yeah, it costs a bit more to get into that market, but if your passion ends up fizzling out, you can get most of your money back. I see folks trying to sell those beginner packs on craigslist all the time... usually for 40 bucks. I suspect that a large number of those beginner pack amps and guitars end up in dumpsters.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#29
Don't worry, it's not a fase ahahah
I've been playing acoustic guitar for a couple of years, and i'm not going to buy the beguinner pack, i just pondered buying it because i never played an electric guitar before, i'm going to buy something better
#30
If you're committed to a guitar pack I would recommend the Squire Affinity.
Black Cat
#31
Quote by D'Arcy Ward
If you're committed to a guitar pack I would recommend the Squire Affinity.


Did you even read the thread? The post right before your post literally says he isn't going to get a starter pack....
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#32
Of course I read the thread asshole. I was just making a suggestion should he change his mind again.
Black Cat
#33
Quote by D'Arcy Ward
Of course I read the thread asshole. I was just making a suggestion should he change his mind again.


First off, very mature post for a 60 year old. Second, if you read the thread why would you make that suggestion? Seriously, this is your second post here, maybe you should rethink your attitude.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#34
I loved my starter pack, Peavey Patriot with a crappy little Peavey amp... the Patriot was great for learning on.

I got lucky though, that was a different time. The 80s Squires where decent, but these new I just can't get along with.

What is your used market like? Do you guys have a craigslist/kijiji type deal?
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#35
Quote by Kevin Saale
First off, very mature post for a 60 year old. Second, if you read the thread why would you make that suggestion? Seriously, this is your second post here, maybe you should rethink your attitude.

I would say that you have the attitude problem. You'll grow up eventually, I would hope .
Black Cat
#36
Quote by D'Arcy Ward
I would say that you have the attitude problem. You'll grow up eventually, I would hope .


Hey, if you're any indication then the future is bleak.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#37
#17
im thinking of buying an electric guitar - guitar noob here xD
well i listen to some metal and classic rock. also other stuff.
i want versatility in genres of music that i listen to.
im thinking of getting a Esp ltd mh1000nt with duncan 59 / jb, i heard that the duncan jb is a nice pickup for metal or classic stuff, the 59 in clean paf style stuff. How about prs se custom 22? and Gibson les paul studio faded 2016? pups are burstbuckers pro. i think the burstbuckers pro arent edgy enough for metal, more of a classic throaty sound not suited for metal. well gibsons age very well they say, so i doubt that the prs se and the esp ltd would do the same. im not going to waste a grand for guitars and have to repair them a lot.
if not mistaken all these guitars have maple tops and retails about $700-800. i also dont want trems and too high output pickups. so what do u guys think i should buy? please help me
#38
Quote by coba2xdoank
#17
im thinking of buying an electric guitar - guitar noob here xD
well i listen to some metal and classic rock. also other stuff.
i want versatility in genres of music that i listen to.
im thinking of getting a Esp ltd mh1000nt with duncan 59 / jb, i heard that the duncan jb is a nice pickup for metal or classic stuff, the 59 in clean paf style stuff. How about prs se custom 22? and Gibson les paul studio faded 2016? pups are burstbuckers pro. i think the burstbuckers pro arent edgy enough for metal, more of a classic throaty sound not suited for metal. well gibsons age very well they say, so i doubt that the prs se and the esp ltd would do the same. im not going to waste a grand for guitars and have to repair them a lot.
if not mistaken all these guitars have maple tops and retails about $700-800. i also dont want trems and too high output pickups. so what do u guys think i should buy? please help me


Make a new thread. It's considered in poor taste to jack someone's thread like this, plus you'll get better responses if you start your own thread. And before that read the forum rules and maybe do a few searches of the forums first.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#39
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
I loved my starter pack, Peavey Patriot with a crappy little Peavey amp... the Patriot was great for learning on.

I got lucky though, that was a different time. The 80s Squires where decent, but these new I just can't get along with.

What is your used market like? Do you guys have a craigslist/kijiji type deal?

We do have a site like craigslist but theres very few guitar's or amps there...
#40
For what it's worth, I haven't played the Blackstar, but from what I've heard of it it could be a decent option for you. It's been a couple years since I tried a Valvetronix, but it did really impress me at the time; no idea how it'd handle metalcore though.

If you aren't certain about the guitar yet, the JS22 should indeed be a solid enough option. My experience of Epiphone at that price range is they tend to be mediocre (not usually bad, but not impressive either) until you get to the Standard models, as well as probably not being so well suited to your genres. Ibanez makes some eminently playable stuff about that price point, and Schecter tend to be decent but might be a tad too expensive.
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