#1
Bought from Amazon in November 15. Used a little (a couple or hours max). Hung on the wall of my "music room" (!).

In January 16 I noticed that 4 longitudinal cracks were developing in the Pelham Blue Laminate top - despite being stored in a moderate climate (England in Winter). All cracks were longitudinal and were in 2 groups of two - running under the volume pots.

As the LP Deluxe was "parked" next to my LP Traditional on the wall I inspected the Traditional for cracks but that was fine.

I've come to the conclusion that the thin PB lacquer is not very good if it doesn't last more than 3 months!
Last edited by monabri at Jan 15, 2016,
#2
Laminate? You mean the finish? The top on Gibsons are rather thick maple caps and not laminate. Would be very surprised if there was a crack in the wood at this point, unless someone overtightened the pots to an insane degree.

Would be very helpful if you posted photos of the cracks/checking.
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#3
Sorry, tried to post photos but every time I tried the allowable file size reduced?? It's a 2015 Gibson LP deluxe in pelham blue. It is the pelham blue finish that has cracked. The guitar has never left the same room since it was purchased. I estimate that the room temperature varies by a few degrees - it has been a mild wet winter in the UK. I described it as a"thin PB lacquer" I meant the thin pelham blue lacquer. The lines are about 10mm apart and about 125mm in length. There are 4 cracks and they look like deep scratches - the lines are almost all parallel to each other. It looks like someone has got a metal comb with 4 teeth and dragged it down the paint.

I'll have a go at uploading as per your suggestions. The crack lines are sharp . It was fine but then the cracks suddenly appeared by bad magic!!!
Last edited by monabri at Jan 15, 2016,
#4
Try uploading to imgur or photobucket and pasting the links here. UG image hosting is...bad.

Are the lines thin and sharp, or are they warping or bubbling around the edges?
#5
Use a site like photobucket or imgur to upload the photos.
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#7
Oof, that's not great. Unfortunately the Gibson warranty does not cover the finish under any circumstances, but I'd get in contact with the dealer you bought it from and let them know what happened. They might be able to work something out. At the very least, Gibson ought to know that someone goofed on the finish work there.

Stuff like that usually happens if the guitar heats up or cools down quickly. Have you taken it out for gigs, left it in a car trunk (sorry, boot) or do you keep it next to a window or a vent?
#8
Thanx - I've been in touch with Amazon and FORTUNATELY they will allow me to send it back as I bought it on 5th November and they have an extended returns period. I posted this in case anyone else has had similar probs - that is - a Gibson QA issue!!


The guitar hasn't been out of the room - literally. It hasnt been anywhere other than this. Ive had it about 2.5 months and the cracks seem to have appeared overnight. The Les Paul lightburst "Traditional" next to it on the wall (2012) is fine. Surely a guitar finish should be able to withstand a temperature variation inthe same room of a few degrees!

oh, by the way - I'm a materials scientist and I know when materials are not fit for purpose!
Last edited by monabri at Jan 15, 2016,
#9
Nitrocellulose finishes do that sometimes. Its a fragile and obsolete finishing technique (and an extremely difficult technique to pull off well, hence there are variations between one guitar and the other), but the purists that buy Gibson guitars insist that they keep using it because that's the type of finish they've been using for the last 50 years. Said people think that such a finish gives the guitar 'mojo' when it checks.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Jan 15, 2016,
#10
I mean, even nitro shouldn't check that quickly. Nitro is supposed to wear faster, but not instantly and not sitting in a temperature controlled room. It's also not the same nitro that was used 50 years ago, plasticizers and stabilizers for environmental, production, and longevity (yup) reasons have made it a very different formula.

This looks like perhaps the wood or finish was not all the way dry when more layers were sprayed. I don't know a ton about finishes but expanding/contracting is typically what causes those hairline cracks.
#11
Nah, a nitro finish shouldn't do that at all. Not that quickly.

And I know that the formula they use is not the same either. But its still nitro-based and as close as you can reasonably ask for from a factory that produces guitars in such large numbers these days.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Omae wa mou
Shindeiru



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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Jan 15, 2016,
#12
Now ive looked at the pics again It looks like the pots have been factory tightened too much - look at how the cracks run compared to the volume/tone/boost switch.

It's hard to try to convince someone of " mojo" when it's a 2015 LP with squiggle signature/g force / zero fret. So,. It's going back. It's a factory assembly fault IMHO due to overtightened nuts! That's my guess as to what's happened.

As for NC, yep, it is a biatch of a material - I used to work in the defence industry and NC was a major headache (major headache, get it.... ? Working with NC lowers blood pressure but you can get serious headaches from it when processing it. They realised about the lowered blood pressure when people retired and months later keeled over dead with a heart attack ...but I digress ). Obtaining consistent NC batches was a big problem and - as the material was very very important to the product we paid top dollar - I can imagine gibbo would not be as fussy.
Last edited by monabri at Jan 15, 2016,
#13
In my experience, it's really hard to tighten a pot so much that it cracks the finish. On the other hand, Gibson seems able to screw up in new and imaginative ways that are years ahead of the competition, so anything is possible.

Glad you're able to return it.
#15
Those are common nitro checks. Happens a lot with guitars that's been out in the cold and then are brought into room temperature without given the chance to warm up. Happens sometimes without such drastic changes too. It's just the nature of nitrocellulose laquer. I'd really not worry about it - it happens to a lot of nitrocellulose-finished guitars sooner or later.

Sure, it's bad luck to have it happen so quickly, but it isn't really unheard of either. Gibson have never included this in their warranty as you can never claim it was a manufacturing fault - you can never know what situation the guitar has been in.

If you absolutely don't want checks, don't buy a nitro finished guitar.
"Your signature can not be longer than 250 characters."

How you know you have too many guitars...

Apparently once also known as PonyFan #834553.
#16
Quote by monabri


I've come to the conclusion that the thin PB lacquer is not very good if it doesn't last more than 3 months!


You've added the word "thin" as if it were actually thin. It's not.

I'm not sure about the application of "Pelham Blue" in this case, but in the past it's actually been acrylic for the color, followed by a nitrocellulose clear topcoat. You'll find older guitars that have a nitrocellulose topcoat that's yellowed so much the guitar has been mistaken for Inverness Green. Under the pickups, and in areas where the top coat has been worn off it's blue, but where the topcoat still exists, the yellowed nitrocellulose makes it look green. The paint on most Gibsons (with the notable exception of the cheapie LPJ, etc.) is quite thick. It may appear thin because nitrocellulose lacquer's unique property is that the surface of the guitar under the paint will show up on TOP of the paint, giving the impression that you're actually touching grain, or very close to. This property drove hotrodders crazy; they'd boast of 30-40 coats of "hand rubbed lacquer" only to realize that within a year and a half or two years, even the smallest imperfection of the surface beneath the lacquer was showing on the surface. It isn't the lacquer "shrinking," either. When you peel off the lacquer it's every bit of that that 30-40 coats coming back off, full thickness. Somewhere around here I've got a shot of the lacquer from the back of an R7. It's come off in one big thick sheet.
#17
Quote by Roc8995
In my experience, it's really hard to tighten a pot so much that it cracks the finish.


I've seen these cracks appear on guitars that have had the knobs changed.

It's not unusual for the process of pulling the originals and whacking the replacements back on to produce these cracks within a week or two of the exchange.
#18
Hmm, interesting. The deluxe has hot rod coil splitting ( gibson speak) but then again the crack has extended to the boost switch. I haven't hit the up/down coil split that hard though!
Last edited by monabri at Jan 15, 2016,
#20
All conjecture really. The guitar shipped halfway round the world and you don't know what temp extremes it may have been subjected to, hell you might have done it yourself by opening the case the minute you brought it home.
I had a MIA 93 Strat Plus (in poly) and it was left in a storage container by the mover's overnite in -20Deg C temperatures. The wood actually deformed from freezing.
Moving on.....
#21
Quote by monabri
Thanx - I've been in touch with Amazon and FORTUNATELY they will allow me to send it back as I bought it on 5th November and they have an extended returns period. I posted this in case anyone else has had similar probs - that is - a Gibson QA issue!!


sweet, great news

they have the extended returns period around christmas i think, so you got lucky
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
It has been OK hung on the wall with its sisters for about 3 months - it was only yesterday that I noticed these cracks which weren't there last time I player it. I definitely would have noticed.

Yep, Amazon have been pretty darn good - I bet my local guitarguitar centre wouldn't have had it back.
Last edited by monabri at Jan 16, 2016,
#23
Friend of mine left his LP out in subzero temps (in Iowa) overnight.

He'd come home from a gig too tired (he says. Alcohol was involved) to unload. When he was unloading things the next morning, the guitar, in the case, slid out and landed right on the bottom, where the bottom straplock would be.

He opened the case and found a bunch of cracks on the face, radiating from where it had struck. He was horrified, but later when the guitar warmed up, the cracks were gone! He then spent the next three or four weeks lecturing me on the benefits of nitrocellulose lacquer, how it probably "melted" the cracks together, yada yada.

Within about six weeks, however, the cracks were back, and just got more obvious as time went on. They'd just been invisible for a while.
#24
Quote by monabri
It has been OK hung on the wall with its sisters for about 3 months - it was only yesterday that I noticed these cracks which weren't there last time I player it. I definitely would have noticed.

Yep, Amazon have been pretty darn good - I bet my local guitarguitar centre wouldn't have had it back.


yeah. the big companies can sometimes be a bit intransigent and sometimes stick to their policies (often which are of kind of dubious legality), but if you know their policies going in and figure out how they work and how to use them to your advantage, you can do well.

of course, there are other instances where you might get better service from smaller companies so it just depends.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?